Trump tax plan is going to raise taxes on people from 150k to 300k

[tonymctones]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/politics/tax-breaks/?utm_term=.f01ea6717d81

At $200K plus SALT deductions are the biggest deductions on taxes...time to pay your fair share straw

[Primemuscle]

It's amazing how fast you're willing to push your political views aside when it costs you more money.

That's pretty much the case with everyone, me included.

[Straw Man]

Actually we do...

Property tax does not adjust with income it adjust with property value and is regressive in taxation...you know one of those things liberals are always saying they disagree with?

Which is exactly why removing the SALT provision would hit high income earners more and be inline with your progressive views.

It's amazing how fast you're willing to push your political views aside when it costs you more money.

Don't forget property taxes

those are deducted as well and Trump wants to get rid of that deduction

Your state has higher % property taxes than most other states the country

So by your logic the entire country is subsidizing home ownership in Texas

Does CA received more federal dollars than it pays in taxes.

That's the bottom line

[Agnostic007]

I thought Trump was the anti-tax guy?

 

Nah, just anti showing his tax returns

[Agnostic007]

Both sides serve you the same shit. You just eat one side’s shit and call it steak, while complaining about the other. It’s not even about ideas.

Obama could have been (but, obviously, wasn’t) the best President we’d ever seen and you’d have kept up your incessant Kenyan birtherism nonsense and anti-Obama rhetoric. Because you don’t look at reality; you look at the party label.

And because of the party label, and his populist appeal, you see a glowing messianic figure in the face of Trump, regardless of the reality.

Trump has turned out (perhaps surprisingly, perhaps not) to be an abject failure. He brilliantly ripped up the playbook and crushed the field of competitors in the primary with the kind of political chess we hadn’t seen before. He then beat up on a dead horse to win the Presidency.

And since then, he’s made mistake after mistake at every turn. Everything he criticized Obama for, he’s done. High-level positions in the executive branch are unfilled. He’s hired incompetent people and fired competent people because that’s how he felt (which is his prerogative, but a stupid move nonetheless). He’s demonstrated almost pathological nepotism and narcissism. He’s demonstrated poor grasp of internal and external politics and an almost complete inability to focus on anything for more than a microsecond. He’s wasted hours “tweeting” about nonsense from Emmy ratings to Colin Kaepernick. He hasn’t managed to marshal his considerable political capital into passage of a single bill. He’s cried that bad people attack him, while launching vicious attacks of his own against those who don’t kiss his ring. And, throughout all this, he’s availed himself of every opportunity to tell us how very very great job he’s doing and how it’s the best and we’ll only get better.

I had hoped that the gravity of the situation would become obvious to him. That the weight of the office would drive him to do better and work harder and stop with the theatrics. It hasn’t happened. I doubt it ever will.

Trump promised us we’d be sick of winning. I’m not sure if this is winning, but whatever it is, I am sick of it.

I'm probably going to plagiarize some of this at some point..

[tonymctones]

Don't forget property taxes

those are deducted as well and Trump wants to get rid of that deduction

Your state has higher % property taxes than most other states the country

So by your logic the entire country is subsidizing home ownership in Texas

Does CA received more federal dollars than it pays in taxes.

That's the bottom line

No youre not b/c we are paying more in federal income tax relative to our income, especially the high income earners.

Property tax deductions is an important factor in making homes more affordable to the middle class. The SALT deduction primarily helps the upper middle class and upper class.

Why are you trying to protect the upper class straw?

Why are you against paying your fair share in taxes? 

[tonymctones]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_tax_revenue_by_state

Notice how in 2015, Texas paid a greater % of their Gross State Product (GSP) than California did, 17.1% vs 16.6%...

Why are you against this straw? It would mainly hit the upper class, you know the guys you have been saying for years need to pay their fair share?

[Straw Man]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_tax_revenue_by_state

Notice how in 2015, Texas paid a greater % of their Gross State Product (GSP) than California did, 17.1% vs 16.6%...

Why are you against this straw? It would mainly hit the upper class, you know the guys you have been saying for years need to pay their fair share?

what % of total population in Texas own their home compared to California

both property taxes and state income taxes are deducted on Federal Tax return so the "effect" is the same

all that matters is net dollars paid out vs net dollars received (hint - both CA and TX pay out more than they received back)

[tonymctones]

what % of total population in Texas own their home compared to California

both property taxes and state income taxes are deducted on Federal Tax return so the "effect" is the same

all that matters is net dollars paid out vs net dollars received (hint - both CA and TX pay out more than they received back)

Lmfao no thats not all that matters, you think its ok for your tax payers to pay less to the federal govt than other states b/c it has a better economy?

That's very liberal of you straw, most of the time youre advocating for helping those less fortunate but i guess its different now that you have to actually put up or shut up?

yes straw the effect is the same for property taxes and SALT but SALT has a much bigger impact on federal income tax revenue missed out on b/c of those high income earners youre trying to protect. Add to that property tax deductions actually make home ownership more affordable for the low and middle class and you have a very easy answer.

SALT deductions help high income earners disproportionately when compared to property tax deductions.

[Straw Man]

Lmfao no thats not all that matters, you think its ok for your tax payers to pay less to the federal govt than other states b/c it has a better economy?

That's very liberal of you straw, most of the time youre advocating for helping those less fortunate but i guess its different now that you have to actually put up or shut up?

yes straw the effect is the same for property taxes and SALT but SALT has a much bigger impact on federal income tax revenue missed out on b/c of those high income earners youre trying to protect. Add to that property tax deductions actually make home ownership more affordable for the low and middle class and you have a very easy answer.

SALT deductions help high income earners disproportionately when compared to property tax deductions.

wtf - when did I mention "better economy"

My inference was to the affordability of housing

I assumed you realized that both property tax and state income tax are itemized deductions

[Coach is Back!]

Both sides serve you the same shit. You just eat one side’s shit and call it steak, while complaining about the other. It’s not even about ideas.

Obama could have been (but, obviously, wasn’t) the best President we’d ever seen and you’d have kept up your incessant Kenyan birtherism nonsense and anti-Obama rhetoric. Because you don’t look at reality; you look at the party label.

And because of the party label, and his populist appeal, you see a glowing messianic figure in the face of Trump, regardless of the reality.

Trump has turned out (perhaps surprisingly, perhaps not) to be an abject failure. He brilliantly ripped up the playbook and crushed the field of competitors in the primary with the kind of political chess we hadn’t seen before. He then beat up on a dead horse to win the Presidency.

And since then, he’s made mistake after mistake at every turn. Everything he criticized Obama for, he’s done. High-level positions in the executive branch are unfilled. He’s hired incompetent people and fired competent people because that’s how he felt (which is his prerogative, but a stupid move nonetheless). He’s demonstrated almost pathological nepotism and narcissism. He’s demonstrated poor grasp of internal and external politics and an almost complete inability to focus on anything for more than a microsecond. He’s wasted hours “tweeting” about nonsense from Emmy ratings to Colin Kaepernick. He hasn’t managed to marshal his considerable political capital into passage of a single bill. He’s cried that bad people attack him, while launching vicious attacks of his own against those who don’t kiss his ring. And, throughout all this, he’s availed himself of every opportunity to tell us how very very great job he’s doing and how it’s the best and we’ll only get better.

I had hoped that the gravity of the situation would become obvious to him. That the weight of the office would drive him to do better and work harder and stop with the theatrics. It hasn’t happened. I doubt it ever will.

Trump promised us we’d be sick of winning. I’m not sure if this is winning, but whatever it is, I am sick of it.

You sound butt hurt because if you bothered to even keep up a little you would see that the abject failure was actually Obama and at just about every turn Trump, even without a full administration would see that this country has turned for the better in the last 10 months than Obama did in his 8 years. Labor participation, 4000 + point increase in the markets since inauguration, 1mil + jobs, corporations coming back to the US, Immigration, foreign policy, economy, GDP, etc etc all dramatically improved since Obama. Could he do somethings better. Of course. Abject failure, spare me your bullshit.

[Agnostic007]

You sound butt hurt because if you bothered to even keep up a little you would see that the abject failure was actually Obama and at just about every turn Trump, even without a full administration would see that this country has turned for the better in the last 10 months than Obama did in his 8 years. Labor participation, 4000 + point increase in the markets since inauguration, 1mil + jobs, corporations coming back to the US, Immigration, foreign policy, economy, GDP, etc etc all dramatically improved since Obama. Could he do somethings better. Of course. Abject failure, spare me your bullshit.

Wow...just...wow,, Like listening to a Rev. Phelps relative talking  about religion

[Primemuscle]

Wow...just...wow,, Like listening to a Rev. Phelps relative talking  about religion

I know, you have to wonder where Coach gets his info. Nothing I've seen, read or heard supports Coach's position on Trump's supposed accomplishments.

[avxo]

You sound butt hurt because if you bothered to even keep up a little you would see that the abject failure was actually Obama and at just about every turn Trump, even without a full administration would see that this country has turned for the better in the last 10 months than Obama did in his 8 years. Labor participation, 4000 + point increase in the markets since inauguration, 1mil + jobs, corporations coming back to the US, Immigration, foreign policy, economy, GDP, etc etc all dramatically improved since Obama. Could he do somethings better. Of course. Abject failure, spare me your bullshit.

There you go again whining about Obama. I never said Obama was a successful President. Quite the opposite, in fact. But you can’t resist making everything about Obama, can you?

I remember what you and your ilk said whenever any Democrat said “It’s W’s fault” in response to criticism. And now you’re doing the same thing.

Enough with Obama already. We’re over 9 months into the Trump presidency. And yes, whether you like it or not, so far he’s been an abject failure.

The great deal maker hasn’t managed to cut a deal to pass a single piece of legislation despite having majorities in both Houses of Congress. Wait... let me guess... it’s everyone else’s fault! That’s success!

The candidate who said only he could fix healthcare and it was simple quipped that this stuff is hard and who knew that? That’s success!

The candidate the complained about Obama’s golfing habits and his tone deaf “tee time” responses to situations has spent more time at the golf course than Obama and dedicated a golf trophy to the people of Puerto Rico who are, by all accounts, in a desperate situation. That’s success!

The man who told us he’d pick a great to surround himself with has yet to fill a ton of positions, and of the ones he’s filled with “great people”... well, turns out he’s had to fire a few. That’s success!

The head of the executive department chastises the Secretary of State over Twitter to ignore a nuclear North Korea and not waste time on it, while incessantly tweeting about how fucking great he is and the low tv ratings of his opponents or the fake news or that blue fucking car that drove by and caught his attention. That’s success.

Have some key indicators moved positive? Certainly, although not all have moved as dramatically as you suggest nor is it clear that the move is related to anything Trump did or said instead of just cyclical in nature. And if you’re going to claim victory for the indicators that are trending up, why are you ignoring indicators trending down? Let me guess... Obama’s fault, ain’t it?

Joe, you are a small-minded fool, who gets a set of talking points from your taskmasters that you then proceed to regurgitate whole, having given them not a single thought. You’ve abdicated your obligation to your country and to reality to critically evaluate information (if you were ever capable to do so) and are nothing more than an unintelligent mouthpiece and a pretty shitty one at that.

You—and the rest of your brothers and sisters from both sides of the aisle—disgust me.

[tonymctones]

wtf - when did I mention "better economy"

My inference was to the affordability of housing

I assumed you realized that both property tax and state income tax are itemized deductions

Are you inferring that the property tax deduction makes home ownership more affordable?

B/c it does along with the mortgage interest deduction, what doesn't help the middle class as much is the SALT deduction....that helps the upper middle class and upper class.

Why would you try to protect the people you have been trying to tax for years?

[Agnostic007]

There you go again whining about Obama. I never said Obama was a successful President. Quite the opposite, in fact. But you can’t resist making everything about Obama, can you?

I remember what you and your ilk said whenever any Democrat said “It’s W’s fault” in response to criticism. And now you’re doing the same thing.

Enough with Obama already. We’re over 9 months into the Trump presidency. And yes, whether you like it or not, so far he’s been an abject failure.

The great deal maker hasn’t managed to cut a deal to pass a single piece of legislation despite having majorities in both Houses of Congress. Wait... let me guess... it’s everyone else’s fault! That’s success!

The candidate who said only he could fix healthcare and it was simple quipped that this stuff is hard and who knew that? That’s success!

The candidate the complained about Obama’s golfing habits and his tone deaf “tee time” responses to situations has spent more time at the golf course than Obama and dedicated a golf trophy to the people of Puerto Rico who are, by all accounts, in a desperate situation. That’s success!

The man who told us he’d pick a great to surround himself with has yet to fill a ton of positions, and of the ones he’s filled with “great people”... well, turns out he’s had to fire a few. That’s success!

The head of the executive department chastises the Secretary of State over Twitter to ignore a nuclear North Korea and not waste time on it, while incessantly tweeting about how fucking great he is and the low tv ratings of his opponents or the fake news or that blue fucking car that drove by and caught his attention. That’s success.

Have some key indicators moved positive? Certainly, although not all have moved as dramatically as you suggest nor is it clear that the move is related to anything Trump did or said instead of just cyclical in nature. And if you’re going to claim victory for the indicators that are trending up, why are you ignoring indicators trending down? Let me guess... Obama’s fault, ain’t it?

Joe, you are a small-minded fool, who gets a set of talking points from your taskmasters that you then proceed to regurgitate whole, having given them not a single thought. You’ve abdicated your obligation to your country and to reality to critically evaluate information (if you were ever capable to do so) and are nothing more than an unintelligent mouthpiece and a pretty shitty one at that.

You—and the rest of your brothers and sisters from both sides of the aisle—disgust me.

sadly true

[Coach is Back!]

There you go again whining about Obama. I never said Obama was a successful President. Quite the opposite, in fact. But you can’t resist making everything about Obama, can you?

I remember what you and your ilk said whenever any Democrat said “It’s W’s fault” in response to criticism. And now you’re doing the same thing.

Enough with Obama already. We’re over 9 months into the Trump presidency. And yes, whether you like it or not, so far he’s been an abject failure.

The great deal maker hasn’t managed to cut a deal to pass a single piece of legislation despite having majorities in both Houses of Congress. Wait... let me guess... it’s everyone else’s fault! That’s success!

The candidate who said only he could fix healthcare and it was simple quipped that this stuff is hard and who knew that? That’s success!

The candidate the complained about Obama’s golfing habits and his tone deaf “tee time” responses to situations has spent more time at the golf course than Obama and dedicated a golf trophy to the people of Puerto Rico who are, by all accounts, in a desperate situation. That’s success!

The man who told us he’d pick a great to surround himself with has yet to fill a ton of positions, and of the ones he’s filled with “great people”... well, turns out he’s had to fire a few. That’s success!

The head of the executive department chastises the Secretary of State over Twitter to ignore a nuclear North Korea and not waste time on it, while incessantly tweeting about how fucking great he is and the low tv ratings of his opponents or the fake news or that blue fucking car that drove by and caught his attention. That’s success.

Have some key indicators moved positive? Certainly, although not all have moved as dramatically as you suggest nor is it clear that the move is related to anything Trump did or said instead of just cyclical in nature. And if you’re going to claim victory for the indicators that are trending up, why are you ignoring indicators trending down? Let me guess... Obama’s fault, ain’t it?

Joe, you are a small-minded fool, who gets a set of talking points from your taskmasters that you then proceed to regurgitate whole, having given them not a single thought. You’ve abdicated your obligation to your country and to reality to critically evaluate information (if you were ever capable to do so) and are nothing more than an unintelligent mouthpiece and a pretty shitty one at that.

You—and the rest of your brothers and sisters from both sides of the aisle—disgust me.

When I have time (as much time as you) this will be an easy post to dismember since, and as articulate as you are, are mostly wrong on just about everything.

[Agnostic007]

When I have time (as much time as you) this will be an easy post to dismember since, and as articulate as you are, are mostly wrong on just about everything.

except, and this is just a small detail,, he's not

[Straw Man]

Are you inferring that the property tax deduction makes home ownership more affordable?

B/c it does along with the mortgage interest deduction, what doesn't help the middle class as much is the SALT deduction....that helps the upper middle class and upper class.

Why would you try to protect the people you have been trying to tax for years?

No
I'm referring to YOUR PREMISE that CA taxpayers are being subsidized by other states because we can write off our state income tax on federal return

I assume you understand that unless you itemize you're not writing off the state income tax ....You know that right?

Only about 30% of households even choose to itemize.

If you own a home it's much more likely that you will itemize because you get to write off mortgage interest AND property tax

So, if you have a state with very high property tax (such as Texas) where homes are more affordable then the people in your state are also being subsidized (your premise) by tax payers in CA (and all other states) who don't itemize

Again, I don't even agree with your premise

If you want to make a comparison and states that are subsidized by the federal government (i.e. distribution of federal funds collected from all 50 states) then here is a good comparison

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

[Soul Crusher]

To me - the most people should be paying less taxes. 

hhhmmmm.   

as a middle class idiot in NYC area - this causes me to pay more.  So guess what - I'm not happy about it.   

[Straw Man]

To me - the most people should be paying less taxes.  

hhhmmmm.  

as a middle class idiot in NYC area - this causes me to pay more.  So guess what - I'm not happy about it.  

Paul Ryan claims the plan will be deficit nuetral (not even close at the moment) but won't be revenue neutral (i.e. tax revenue will be lower).  They expect the tax cuts to stimulate the economy thus producing more gross revenue which will offset the loss in revenue from the tax cuts.  

So basically the same old smoke and mirrors that they've been pushing since 1980 that has never worked (most recent experiment in this premise was Kansas which was a devastating failure). It's estimated that 80% of the benefits of this tax plan go to the very wealthy and giving the wealthy a tax cut does not and has never stimulated the economy.  I would have more respect for Republicans if they just stopped trying to sell this lie.

Ryan also agrees that some middle class families will get fucked

My guess is this will go nowhere (just looking at all their other attempts to govern)

Ryan said the plan will be deficit-neutral, but did not also suggest it will be revenue-neutral. The TPC estimates the plan will reduce federal revenue by $2.4 trillion over the next decade.

Republicans are depending on economic growth to pay for the cuts.

Ryan said this "will have to be a deficit-neutral tax bill" for it to pass. Ryan said he and other Republicans "fundamentally believe that this tax code and this tax reform will give us faster economic growth."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paul-ryan-tax-plan-middle-class/

[avxo]

When I have time (as much time as you) this will be an easy post to dismember since, and as articulate as you are, are mostly wrong on just about everything.

Despite your bravado, you haven't been able to "dismember" any of my past posts. I'm not too worried that you'll start now.

And as for your comment on time: again, it goes to show how shallow and narrow-minded you are. You imagine that academics just sit and snooze all day. I'm far busier than you suspect; in fact, I'd venture to say that I'm busier than you. And probably more efficient to boot.

[Soul Crusher]

I call it like I see it.  Im a libertarian type. 

Paul Ryan claims the plan will be deficit nuetral (not even close at the moment) but won't be revenue neutral (i.e. tax revenue will be lower).  They expect the tax cuts to stimulate the economy thus producing more gross revenue which will offset the loss in revenue from the tax cuts.  

So basically the same old smoke and mirrors that they've been pushing since 1980 that has never worked (most recent experiment in this premise was Kansas which was a devastating failure). It's estimated that 80% of the benefits of this tax plan go to the very wealthy and giving the wealthy a tax cut does not and has never stimulated the economy.  I would have more respect for Republicans if they just stopped trying to sell this lie.

Ryan also agrees that some middle class families will get fucked

My guess is this will go nowhere (just looking at all their other attempts to govern)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paul-ryan-tax-plan-middle-class/

[Dos Equis]

To me - the most people should be paying less taxes. 

hhhmmmm.   

as a middle class idiot in NYC area - this causes me to pay more.  So guess what - I'm not happy about it.   

Truth. 

[Straw Man]

Truth.  

To me - the most people should be paying less taxes.  

hhhmmmm.  

as a middle class idiot in NYC area - this causes me to pay more.  So guess what - I'm not happy about it.  

You and I (and apparently Bum) all agree that the majority of tax savings should go to "the most people"
which means the majority of any tax reform should benefit people in the 15% bracket or less

The current Republican/Trump plan gives 50% of the benefits to top 1% in income earners.

I'd like to see 95% of total benefit going to majority of tax payers which would be 25% tax bracket or lower.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tax-fiscal/rich-would-benefit-most-from-trump-tax-cut-plan-policy-group-idUSKCN1C42C8