I appreciate that you don't want to debate several people at once. It can be tiring and frustrating....we both know that. I didn't mean to debate or argue your points with you.
IMO everyone should believe as they chose as long as it is legal and doesn't intentionally hurt others. It is better if they keep an open mind rather than stagnate. The older we get the harder it can be to change our thinking. I have to consciously work at this. Being open to new thoughts and ideas fosters mental and emotional growth.
The way things seem to be going, society has become ever more contentious, exampled by riots, demonstrations, and violence. That the Westboro Baptist Church has followers, says volumes about how far some people are willing to go and this is incredibly disheartening. Hate begets more hate.
No, it's not because it is tiring or frustrating. I love provocative discussions and debates. It gets me thinking and reconsidering my own beliefs, bias, and prejudice. It's simply time constraints and ranger started this thread and I wanted to direct my discussions with him. It's easy to get draw in addressing points by others, and there's a wealth of material here i this thread I would like to address. In your case, I responded to one of you points because it's an important one and posed in a way that steers the subject and discussion more along the lines I am interested in. So you sucked me in.
As I stated earlier, I am interested in clarity and understanding. That what you say is what you really mean and you are aware of the consequences, often unintended, it will lead to and how it can apply to other circumstances that you may not be as amenable to. When you say something I take it just as you say it and don't want to interpret it as what I think you mean. So often I will break it down so that we are on the same page whether we agree or not I just want it to be clear.
For example you stated, "IMO everyone should believe as they chose as long as it is legal and doesn't intentionally hurt others."
Now in my mind there is some ambiguity to me that may seem a non issue to you. I don't know. Hence, I want to clarify.
Of course, anybody can believe anything they want. They can have any feelings, desires, propensities that suits them or is built in their nature. Belief, per se, has never hurt anyone. It's acting on one's beliefs, urges, propensities that matters. As a Christian I don't believe being a homosexual is a sin as such. I think attraction is mostly innate though environment, culture, upbring also plays a major role.
A role the gay agenda I believe is avidly pursuing. So regardless of your predilections, and in this case, attraction to other men, it's acting on it that is a sin. I know many will cry foul and say "But YOUR God made me this way! I am just acting on my nature." My reply is one of the reasons that, though we are animals, we are not just animals. We can mode and modify our nature. In fact, being a civilized human being requires that we overcome our nature. Our natural propensities. It's natural to just take what we want rather than work for it. Being lazy is a natural trait in man. Eating with our hands and taking a piss whereever and whenever you want is natural. Gratitude, being thankful and expressing it is not natural. But through training, not whether you like it or not, can "reprogram your nature."
I remember that as a kid I hated using a spoon and fork. I would fight with mom fight all the time about that. I said it was easier and I prefered to eat with my hands. Those were the good old day when people cared more about actions rather than feelings. So table manners were forced on me until eventually it became part of my new nature. Now it feels funny and unnatural to eat with my hands. Same with pissing in public. It was drilled into me that toilet habits are a private matter and now I will go through extreme discomfort to keep it that way.
These are examples on how behavior and acts can determine your "nature". No one starts out being a serial killer, torturing and mutilating other human beings. All start out with small animals and "work their way up". By acting like a monster your transform yourself into a monster. Just like the first time I shop lifted. My parents did a good job teaching me that my natural urge to just take what I want, to steal, was wrong. But we are always fighting our dark side. And as I stole that Snickers bar I was scared and nervous as hell. And if I kept doing it it would have gotten easier and easier. Soon it would be just another day at the office. Acting like a thief I would soon become a thief.
And then there's your comment about "as long as it's legal and doesn't intentionally hurt anyone."
Really? Since when did you believe that legality gives one a pass? Would you have supported Jim Crow laws? You've already proven that if you don't like or agree with a law or lack thereof you just want to change it to suit your agenda, i.e., same sex marriage laws.
"But Jim Crow laws. Same sex laws. They hurt people." All laws hurt some people. Passing a law by definition is preventing people, through force and coercion, from doing something they would or would not do. Somebody is prevented from doing or not doing something they would otherwise want to do.
And this concept of an "open mind". That sounds so evolved and progressive. But how something sounds and what it means are often quite different. And my response to that idea is "Phooey!" I want a discerning mind. And "open" mind invites all sort of thrash to be dumped into it. There are some concepts that are too idiotic even consider. If I did that all my time spent on this board would be discussions with Mary Champions or Wiggs regarding the earth being flat. You, yourself, seemed somewhat less than amenable to the idea of someone marrying their cat. But I can assure you there are people like that. There is an actual movement to support this "right." Who are you to say it's going too far, unnatural, not real love? The same can be said about you. A man having romantic feelings and performing sexual acts with another man. When someone told me what being gay actually meant, and I was in the six grade at the time. I was like wa-what?!!
Now you see why I need to limit, or at least try to, my discussions to one person. Now I don't have time for ranger. In fact, I already forgot what I wanted to address and now have to look back through this thread. I don't think most people realize how some of of the societal changes we make today will have a real impact on our society in the future. The cultural revolution during the late sixties/early seventies really remade our culture. Just compare the 1950s with today. Are we better for it? Sure some things are better but over all? Are we a more civil, honest, decent people as we were a few generations ago? So this matters to me as it should to everyone and requires a response other than, "You're a phag! You're a degenerate! You're flawed and a mistake of nature! Just die!..."
Sorry ranger. Maybe tomorrow.
Oh, calf shot. Are Army boots and Daisy Dukes still in fashion?
