Marius Dohne Explains Kidney Disease Struggles

[Rimstinger]

This is rough 

[oldgolds]

So many bodybuilders think they're gonna be huge all their lives and then die in their sleep.....No, many will suffer agonizingly for years before they die.....This sport is sick...Just stay drug free and live a healthy life.

[falco]

Funny that he doesn't associates steroids induced high blood pressure, as one of the major causes of kidney stress.

[oldtimer1]

Whose playing the damn piano while I'm trying to hear him speak? He said it's not anabolics but it increases blood pressure and that's one of the major causes of kidney damage. Lifting also spikes that already high blood pressure. It's also oil injections that ultimately makes it's way to the kidneys to filter out. The creatine is another problem.  What he said about creatine is what my doctor said too. Also creatine coming out of China has a ton of impurities in it.

I do feel bad about what he is going through. Sounds like hell. God bless him.

[Bevo]

This guy found out he was sick but yet kept competing

[WalterWhite]

Funny that he doesn't associates steroids induced high blood pressure, as one of the major causes of kidney stress.

This is a pretty good study because they actually biopsy kidney's in bb to looks for focal segmental glomerulosclerosis after steroid abuse. The bodybuilder in the first index case study allowed them to use his picture. I agree regarding BP.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2799287/#

In summary, we present the first series of FSGS in bodybuilders who abused AASs. These patients may present with either asymptomatic proteinuria or full nephrotic syndrome and heterogeneous histologic variants of FSGS. Although these patients responded well to discontinuation of AAS use, weight loss, and RAS blockade, others may progress to ESRD. Elevated lean body mass and long-term AAS abuse should be added to the list of causes of secondary FSGS.

[SF1900]

This is a pretty good study because they actually biopsy kidney's in bb to looks for focal segmental glomerulosclerosis after steroid abuse. The bodybuilder in the first index case study allowed them to use his picture. I agree regarding BP.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2799287/#

In summary, we present the first series of FSGS in bodybuilders who abused AASs. These patients may present with either asymptomatic proteinuria or full nephrotic syndrome and heterogeneous histologic variants of FSGS. Although these patients responded well to discontinuation of AAS use, weight loss, and RAS blockade, others may progress to ESRD. Elevated lean body mass and long-term AAS abuse should be added to the list of causes of secondary FSGS.

This really says it all:

Although his renal function and proteinuria had significantly improved, the patient reported symptoms of severe depression related to changes in body image. He perceived himself as being too “skinny and weak” and complained of decreased libido. He wanted to resume bodybuilding but agreed to a reduced exercise regimen without supplements or hormones. Two months after restarting his exercise regimen, his weight increased to 267 lbs, his serum creatinine was 1.4 mg/dl, 24-h urine protein was 395 mg/d, and CrCl was 200 ml/min. At his next office visit, the patient reported feeling well but was dissatisfied with the muscle mass that he was able to achieve without supplements and hormones. Against his nephrologist's advice, he resumed his high-protein diet as well as the dietary supplements, testosterone, and growth hormone but at lower levels than previously. Six weeks after restarting supplements and hormones, his serum creatinine increased to 2.3 mg/dl and proteinuria increased to 4.7 g/d. He was advised to stop using supplements and hormones, decrease his protein intake, and decrease his workout regimen. The patient failed to comply, and 3.5 yr after restarting bodybuilding with hormones and supplements, the patient weighed 296 lbs (BMI 41.3 kg/m2) with creatinine of 2.4 mg/dl and 24-h urine protein of 14.1 g/d.

[Spike]

This really says it all:

Although his renal function and proteinuria had significantly improved, the patient reported symptoms of severe depression related to changes in body image. He perceived himself as being too “skinny and weak” and complained of decreased libido. He wanted to resume bodybuilding but agreed to a reduced exercise regimen without supplements or hormones. Two months after restarting his exercise regimen, his weight increased to 267 lbs, his serum creatinine was 1.4 mg/dl, 24-h urine protein was 395 mg/d, and CrCl was 200 ml/min. At his next office visit, the patient reported feeling well but was dissatisfied with the muscle mass that he was able to achieve without supplements and hormones. Against his nephrologist's advice, he resumed his high-protein diet as well as the dietary supplements, testosterone, and growth hormone but at lower levels than previously. Six weeks after restarting supplements and hormones, his serum creatinine increased to 2.3 mg/dl and proteinuria increased to 4.7 g/d. He was advised to stop using supplements and hormones, decrease his protein intake, and decrease his workout regimen. The patient failed to comply, and 3.5 yr after restarting bodybuilding with hormones and supplements, the patient weighed 296 lbs (BMI 41.3 kg/m2) with creatinine of 2.4 mg/dl and 24-h urine protein of 14.1 g/d.

True


Only underlying health issue I've dealt with on a recurring basis


Was able to control BP but blood work usually shows elevated creatinine levels

LDL low HDL even at 50



Good thing gh repairs your kidneys 

[WalterWhite]

True


Only underlying health issue I've dealt with on a recurring basis


Was able to control BP but blood work usually shows elevated creatinine levels

LDL low HDL even at 50



Good thing gh repairs your kidneys 

I've read a lot of studies but this is the first inclusive of biopsies on a cohort of bodybuilders/powerlifters. Fairly young steroid users will see less drastic lipid panel changes, however, everyone is different. Some peoples HDL will drop to single digits and even zero out.

You have tolerant genetics if you have these readings while blasting.

[Taffin]

But... but... ?

Flex Wheeler said his FSGS was is an extremely rare hereditary condition and nothing to do with PED's    Surely nobody is suggesting he is a lying sack of sh1t incorrect..?

[el numero uno]

But... but... ?

Flex Wheeler said his FSGS was is an extremely rare hereditary condition and nothing to do with PED's    Surely nobody is suggesting he is a lying sack of sh1t incorrect..?

He even said PEDs actually delayed his medical condition.

[WalterWhite]

But... but... ?

Flex Wheeler said his FSGS was is an extremely rare hereditary condition and nothing to do with PED's    Surely nobody is suggesting he is a lying sack of sh1t incorrect..?

Imagine that, a bodybuilder lying.  

[Notomorrow]

Seems like bottom line is healthy bodyweight for your height.....Obesity and excessive muscle put the same stress on the organs...your body  knows the general weight it is supposed to be...exceed it ...health problems...the more you exceed it...the more health problems...

[nicorulez]

Imagine that a bodybuilder lying.  

Interesting thread. I am a nephrologist practicing in the great state of FL. Bodybuilding is very prominent here but I have personal experience with at least 3-4 patients in the last few years who have experienced severe chronic kidney disease or even renal failure with end stage renal disease requiring dialysis. To say the least, anabolics are highly associated with secondary FSGS as Walter White previously described. Essentially, FSGS is a primary glomerular disease where proteins are inappropriately filtered through the glomeruli via podocyte effacement. In other words, it is a bad disease and despite aggressive BP control with RAS inhibitors like lisinopril etc often leads to renal failure. The treatment is weight loss, getting off anabolics, BP control, lipid control, and a moderate protein diet approximately 0.8 to 1 grams per kg daily (i.e. around 80 grams daily for a guy weighing 220 lbs). Unfortunately, a lot of BB cannot stand to lose muscle and have a boyd dysmorphic syndrome and continue to juice and eat excessively. I have personally put 3 of the 4 on dialysis. The one not on dialysis did stop bodybuilding. I guess all I can say is buyer beware. Steroids unfortunately have a lot of side effects.

[pellius]

True


Only underlying health issue I've dealt with on a recurring basis


Was able to control BP but blood work usually shows elevated creatinine levels

LDL low HDL even at 50



Good thing gh repairs your kidneys 

Is this true? I never heard this before. If the case, why isn't hgh used routinely to treat kidney issues?

.

[Bevo]

Is this true? I never heard this before. If the case, why isn't hgh used routinely to treat kidney issues?

.

Don't know if that's the case at all

Doesn't long term gh usage associated with cancer?

[Hypo]

Interesting thread. I am a nephrologist practicing in the great state of FL. Bodybuilding is very prominent here but I have personal experience with at least 3-4 patients in the last few years who have experienced severe chronic kidney disease or even renal failure with end stage renal disease requiring dialysis. To say the least, anabolics are highly associated with secondary FSGS as Walter White previously described. Essentially, FSGS is a primary glomerular disease where proteins are inappropriately filtered through the glomeruli via podocyte effacement. In other words, it is a bad disease and despite aggressive BP control with RAS inhibitors like lisinopril etc often leads to renal failure. The treatment is weight loss, getting off anabolics, BP control, lipid control, and a moderate protein diet approximately 0.8 to 1 grams per kg daily (i.e. around 80 grams daily for a guy weighing 220 lbs). Unfortunately, a lot of BB cannot stand to lose muscle and have a boyd dysmorphic syndrome and continue to juice and eat excessively. I have personally put 3 of the 4 on dialysis. The one not on dialysis did stop bodybuilding. I guess all I can say is buyer beware. Steroids unfortunately have a lot of side effects.

Good read. Pro AAS users will say there is no evidence AAS kills people. Might not kill directly, but with abuse organ troubles/failure seems to be an effect.

[nicorulez]

Is this true? I never heard this before. If the case, why isn't hgh used routinely to treat kidney issues?

.

No it is not through. GH in fact grows the organs and predisposes to secondary diabetes as it is not only anabolic in that it increases muscle mass...it is a known counter-regulatory hormone and increases sugar levels. Thus, in inexperienced users like the drug addicts known as pro BB's, they often get secondary diabetes which is anything but good for your kidneys.

https://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/diabetes-resources/definitions/counterregulatory-hormones/

Good basic read that explains insulin and the four known counter-regulatory hormones..... glucagon, epinephrine, cortisol, GH

[Rimstinger]

This is a pretty good study because they actually biopsy kidney's in bb to looks for focal segmental glomerulosclerosis after steroid abuse. The bodybuilder in the first index case study allowed them to use his picture. I agree regarding BP.

That's Beau Baisden who did go on to be on Dialysis and his gf donated him a kidney.

[el numero uno]

No it is not through. GH in fact grows the organs and predisposes to secondary diabetes as it is not only anabolic in that it increases muscle mass...it is a known counter-regulatory hormone and increases sugar levels. Thus, in inexperienced users like the drug addicts known as pro BB's, they often get secondary diabetes which is anything but good for your kidneys.

https://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/diabetes-resources/definitions/counterregulatory-hormones/

Good basic read that explains insulin and the four known counter-regulatory hormones..... glucagon, epinephrine, cortisol, GH

Sorry Dr, but Bro science > 10 years of medical school


 

[falco]

Marius is blaming Advil?

Tom Prince was right after all.

[ESFitness]

Marius is blaming Advil?

Tom Prince was right after all.

Advil does destroy kidneys. Former client of mine lady was a nephrologist (a "kidney specialist") who described the effects of Advil on kidneys being like "turning your kidneys from a soft sponge into Coral. Water flows straight through a sponge but try getting anything to flow through Coral"

Tom Prince also had an IV painkiller and cocaine addiction that his kidneys had to filter out as well as the lil bit of Advil

[Tennisballz]

This really says it all:

Although his renal function and proteinuria had significantly improved, the patient reported symptoms of severe depression related to changes in body image. He perceived himself as being too “skinny and weak” and complained of decreased libido. He wanted to resume bodybuilding but agreed to a reduced exercise regimen without supplements or hormones. Two months after restarting his exercise regimen, his weight increased to 267 lbs, his serum creatinine was 1.4 mg/dl, 24-h urine protein was 395 mg/d, and CrCl was 200 ml/min. At his next office visit, the patient reported feeling well but was dissatisfied with the muscle mass that he was able to achieve without supplements and hormones. Against his nephrologist's advice, he resumed his high-protein diet as well as the dietary supplements, testosterone, and growth hormone but at lower levels than previously. Six weeks after restarting supplements and hormones, his serum creatinine increased to 2.3 mg/dl and proteinuria increased to 4.7 g/d. He was advised to stop using supplements and hormones, decrease his protein intake, and decrease his workout regimen. The patient failed to comply, and 3.5 yr after restarting bodybuilding with hormones and supplements, the patient weighed 296 lbs (BMI 41.3 kg/m2) with creatinine of 2.4 mg/dl and 24-h urine protein of 14.1 g/d.

This right here is the real issue.  I guess some bodybuilders just struggle with it more than others.  I wonder if the body image issues start at a very young age or if they develop through adolescence?

[Taffin]

Advil does destroy kidneys. Former client of mine lady was a nephrologist (a "kidney specialist") who described the effects of Advil on kidneys being like "turning your kidneys from a soft sponge into Coral. Water flows straight through a sponge but try getting anything to flow through Coral"

Tom Prince also had an IV painkiller and cocaine addiction that his kidneys had to filter out as well as the lil bit of Advil

LOL at the after comment of "Tom Prince also had an IV painkiller and cocaine addiction that his kidneys had to filter out as well as the lil bit of Advil

Was she talking about the recommended amount?  Or a 'massive abuse' amount?  As it strikes me a drug so widely used would be causing massive problems if the first case was true.  I expect it was the latter, in which case tough sh1t if you are stupid enough not to do your research and/or have a death wish....

(full disclosure - Advil is Ibuprofen, right?  During a particularly bad period of toothache I once took 3 packs of 12/200mg in one night (7.2g).  Gave me the wickedest headache I've ever experienced about 6/8 hours after the last dose....) 

[ESFitness]

LOL at the after comment of "Tom Prince also had an IV painkiller and cocaine addiction that his kidneys had to filter out as well as the lil bit of Advil

Was she talking about the recommended amount?  Or a 'massive abuse' amount?  As it strikes me a drug so widely used would be causing massive problems if the first case was true.  I expect it was the latter, in which case tough sh1t if you are stupid enough not to do your research and/or have a death wish....

(full disclosure - Advil is Ibuprofen, right?  During a particularly bad period of toothache I once took 3 packs of 12/200mg in one night (7.2g).  Gave me the wickedest headache I've ever experienced about 6/8 hours after the last dose....) 

 didn't discuss dosages. just said in general stay away. told her she's preaching to the choir, as advil inhibits prostaglandins, which will inhibit recovery from training so I advise clients to NEVER use advil and use ice or at most Tylenol since at least your liver "fixes itself" and most ppl wont be using enough to cause liver damage