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Author Topic: NFL - Trump - Kneeling - Discussion  (Read 12483 times)
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« Reply #400 on: October 03, 2017, 08:00:22 PM »

You said you read it cover to cover.

So what is it? Are they obligated to participate in the National Anthem or not?

or did you mean by reading from cover to cover only the front cover and the back cover of the book?

I don't know. I'm the one not arguing if it's in there or not. I'm just saying I have a hard copy of the same rule book CBA.
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« Reply #401 on: October 03, 2017, 08:15:37 PM »

I haven't? lol
 Like I said. I have the hard copy at my office along the with the CBA sent to me by the NFLPA.


These statements imply that you read it.

Either way, there is no requirement.
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« Reply #402 on: October 03, 2017, 08:16:36 PM »

Okay, well it's not. There is no requirement that a player has to stand for the flag.

I'm quite sure there's separate player code conduct book or something. Regardless, its disrespectful and a lie. You have your liberal views as wrong as they are. Trump was proven right and the NFL is taking a hit for it.
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« Reply #403 on: October 03, 2017, 08:17:51 PM »

There is no code, there is no rule, there is no fine.
 
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« Reply #404 on: October 03, 2017, 08:28:22 PM »

There is no code, there is no rule, there is no fine.
 

I'm sure there is. Again, hundreds of millions already lost because of lies by the left.
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« Reply #405 on: October 03, 2017, 08:41:53 PM »

I'm quite sure there's separate player code conduct book or something. Regardless, its disrespectful and a lie. You have your liberal views as wrong as they are. Trump was proven right and the NFL is taking a hit for it.

I doubt it. It appears there is no rule. Asserting something without evidence means absolutely nothing.

I never said I agreed with them kneeling, so I don't know what your idiotic comment about liberal views and lies is about. I have a broad range of views on many topics--you don't know what my views are on most topics. Then again, you also assumed you knew about science and research because you read the results of a study lol. So no surprise you are the type to make assumptions lol.

Your conservative views are just as wrong on most issues.

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« Reply #406 on: October 03, 2017, 08:43:13 PM »

I doubt it. It appears there is no rule. Asserting something without evidence means absolutely nothing.

I never said I agreed with them kneeling, so I don't know what your idiotic comment about liberal views and lies is about. I have a broad range of views on many topics--you don't know what my views are on most topics. Then again, you also assumed you knew about science and research because you read the results of a study lol. So no surprise you are the type to make assumptions lol.

Your conservative views are just as wrong on most issues.



Yes, of course they are that's why almost all liberal policies fail.....


https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/09/25/does-nfl-require-players-stand-national-anthem
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« Reply #407 on: October 03, 2017, 08:46:30 PM »

Yes, of course they are that's why almost all liberal policies fail.....


https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/09/25/does-nfl-require-players-stand-national-anthem

But you keep saying they are my liberal views. They aren't "mine." They don't belong to me. My views are broad range and change depending on the best available evidence,

Again, I've never stated I agree with them kneeling. You will not find one post indicating this.
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« Reply #408 on: October 03, 2017, 08:49:51 PM »

But you keep saying they are my liberal views. They aren't "mine." They don't belong to me. My views are broad range and change depending on the best available evidence,

Again, I've never stated I agree with them kneeling. You will not find one post indicating this.

Oh brother  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #409 on: October 03, 2017, 08:55:36 PM »

But you keep saying they are my liberal views. They aren't "mine." They don't belong to me. My views are broad range and change depending on the best available evidence,

Again, I've never stated I agree with them kneeling. You will not find one post indicating this.

The rule states:

"The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses."

First, there is NO requirement to stand. It states, "During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking." The KEYWORD is "SHOULD."

Definition of the word "should:"

1) to express obligation, propriety, or expediency
2) to express what is probable or expected

So, are they OBLIGATED (definition 1) or EXPECTED (definition 2) to stand? The NFL is not specific what "Should stand" means. As such, there is no requirement. Saying someone "should" do something does not mean its a requirement. For example, Shizzo should become a better poster, but it doesn't mean he is required to do so. Shizzo should also eat more vegetables to improve his health, however, he is not required to do so.

Second, it says they "MAY" be fined. Usually when something is required or obligated, there are clear repercussions for violating the obligation. There is not.

The language is vague and there is no indication that there is a REQUIREMENT to stand, since the word "should" is not clearly defined.
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« Reply #410 on: October 03, 2017, 08:59:02 PM »

I'm sure there is. Again, hundreds of millions already lost because of lies by the left.

Oh my fuckin God... what a moron... you have zero credibility at this point.. you have no clue, yet you hope it exists, therefore it exists and those offering evidence it doesn't.. are lying liberals... jesus H Christ... 
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« Reply #411 on: October 03, 2017, 09:01:15 PM »

Oh my fuckin God... what a moron... you have zero credibility at this point.. you have no clue, yet you hope it exists, therefore it exists and those offering evidence it doesn't.. are lying liberals... jesus H Christ... 

He did post something above from a players manual or something. However, the "rule" is vague and there is no indication that standing is a requirement. It says players "SHOULD" stand. "Should" can denote many things, from an obligation to an expectation.
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« Reply #412 on: October 03, 2017, 09:04:34 PM »

He did post something above from a players manual or something. However, the "rule" is vague and there is no indication that standing is a requirement. It says players "SHOULD" stand. "Should" can denote many things, from an obligation to an expectation.

Where did the anthem guidelines come from? What is the source?
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« Reply #413 on: October 03, 2017, 09:06:08 PM »

Where did the anthem guidelines come from? What is the source?

Update - The NFL Game Operations Manual DOES state that:

"The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses."

Please note, the meme going around several days ago said it was in the Official NFL Rulebook which is different from the Game Operations Manual. The Rulebook handles the rules of the game. The Game Operations Manual handles how teams and players should conduct themselve
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« Reply #414 on: October 04, 2017, 01:50:01 AM »

The wording leaves a lot of wiggle room. That the teams or the league “may” fine or suspend players doesn’t mean that they have to do so.

Whether you think it’s disrespectful or not, these players have a right to protest the fact that the demographic that commits a disproportionate amout of crime has a higher than average incarceration rate.
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« Reply #415 on: October 04, 2017, 08:50:55 AM »

The wording leaves a lot of wiggle room. That the teams or the league “may” fine or suspend players doesn’t mean that they have to do so.

Whether you think it’s disrespectful or not, these players have a right to protest the fact that the demographic that commits a disproportionate amout of crime has a higher than average incarceration rate.

In legal writing there is may, shall, will, should... Shall and will are enforceable, Shall and should are not.
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« Reply #416 on: October 04, 2017, 09:12:31 AM »

Update - The NFL Game Operations Manual DOES state that:

"The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses."

Please note, the meme going around several days ago said it was in the Official NFL Rulebook which is different from the Game Operations Manual. The Rulebook handles the rules of the game. The Game Operations Manual handles how teams and players should conduct themselve

This happened in 2009 at the same time that the US military started paying the NFL for advertising.  Did you know that the NFL's military appreciation day was paid for by the military?
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« Reply #417 on: October 04, 2017, 09:20:54 AM »

So, basically, all-in-all, there is no requirement that mandates players to stand for the Anthem. The NFL's description is vague with a lot of words such as "Should stand" and "May have fines imposed."

This doesn't sound like a mandate to me.

Now, whether or not its moral or immoral to stand is a different issue. However, from a rule-based perspective, there is no rule that requires a mandate to stand.

Next.
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« Reply #418 on: October 04, 2017, 09:22:18 AM »

This happened in 2009 at the same time that the US military started paying the NFL for advertising.  Did you know that the NFL's military appreciation day was paid for by the military?

Oh, that's interesting.

Like I said, the NFL doesn't care about the military. It really all comes down to money for the NFL. There is no deep appreciation for anything.
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« Reply #419 on: October 04, 2017, 09:50:34 AM »

 Wink Wink Wink Wink


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« Reply #420 on: October 04, 2017, 10:08:16 AM »

All you have to do is look at the NFL numbers ($$) dropping and see for yourself that the leftists are wrong again and this is about a blatant disrespect of flag and country. Their might be a few but the majority of liberals HATE the military and also show a blatant disrespect for cops. It's funny that we have a cop posting in this thread and BECAUSE he's a liberal.....can't see it.
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« Reply #421 on: October 04, 2017, 10:13:16 AM »


Stfu dwarf
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« Reply #422 on: October 04, 2017, 10:14:29 AM »


how do you live with yourself not being able to make left turns in your car, or do left hand side dumbell curls ?


All you have to do is look at the NFL numbers ($$) dropping and see for yourself that the leftists are wrong again and this is about a blatant disrespect of flag and country. Their might be a few but the majority of liberals HATE the military and also show a blatant disrespect for cops. It's funny that we have a cop posting in this thread and BECAUSE he's a liberal.....can't see it.
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« Reply #423 on: October 04, 2017, 10:15:51 AM »

All you have to do is look at the NFL numbers ($$) dropping and see for yourself that the leftists are wrong again and this is about a blatant disrespect of flag and country. Their might be a few but the majority of liberals HATE the military and also show a blatant disrespect for cops. It's funny that we have a cop posting in this thread and BECAUSE he's a liberal.....can't see it.

Dude, what is wrong with you?  Lol

You said that standing for the anthem is a requirement. This was implied by the statement you posted.  It is not! You were proven wrong about that particular statement. Just admit it.

Your above statement is a separate issue than when you stated that they are required to stand according to NFL rules.

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« Reply #424 on: October 04, 2017, 10:18:41 AM »

Dude, what is wrong with you?  Lol

You said that standing for the anthem is a requirement. This was implied by the statement you posted.  It is not! You were proven wrong about that particular statement. Just admit it.



LOL.....you do the same thing. You imply shit all the time and then comeback and tell us "thats not what I said". Bitch please.
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