Breakup between the IFBB Amateur and the NPC - in Manion's own words

[TK]

Nothing changes in the NPC or IFBB Pro League in the USA.

For people competing outside of the USA, we are developing open events starting in November 2017 in San Marino, the San Marina Pro show and the Open Amateur Olympia, which will be open to all athletes worldwide, including the USA or any country.  There will be pro qualifiers all over, and we will have a listing of them soon.  

[Matt]

I e-mailed Jim Manion once just out of courtesy to ensure the footage I took at the expos was alright to publish on YouTube, even though I received all of the proper permissions far in advance.  I don't even know why I e-mailed him - as I said, just out of courtesy.  Just to be doubly, or even triply sure that I had all necessary permissions.  He replied to me with something to the effect "I sincerely doubt they are going to allow someone with a camera to be filming at the expo. "

Yeah, I'm sure vendors just hate free advertising.    But I'm sure AMI/Weider doesn't like all the YouTube competition, and THAT is what it was really about, and for him to use his clout as the president of the IFBB Pro League to send me such as message was highly inappropriate.

[Parker]

How can he be president of the NPC and the IFBB pro league? Isn't that a conflict of interest?

[WannaBePro]

How can he be president of the NPC and the IFBB pro league? Isn't that a conflict of interest?

Not at all. The reason the pro league kicked the amateur league to the curb is because the amateur league did everything in its power to keep amateurs as amateurs. Manion being the president of both the amateur and pro leagues ensures there is no incentive to keep amateurs as amateurs. It doesn't matter to him who turns pro and who doesn't because he's in charge of both. So the winners will turn pro and Manion has no reason to keep them as amateurs for financial reasons.

[Disgusted]

I e-mailed Jim Manion once just out of courtesy to ensure the footage I took at the expos was alright to publish on YouTube, even though I received all of the proper permissions far in advance.  I don't even know why I e-mailed him - as I said, just out of courtesy.  Just to be doubly, or even triply sure that I had all necessary permissions.  He replied to me with something to the effect "I sincerely doubt they are going to allow someone with a camera to be filming at the expo. "

Yeah, I'm sure vendors just hate free advertising.    But I'm sure AMI/Weider doesn't like all the YouTube competition, and THAT is what it was really about, and for him to use his clout as the president of the IFBB Pro League to send me such as message was highly inappropriate.

No one cares.

[Simple Simon]

No one cares.

beat me to it.

By the way, I lost £5 yesterday walking the dog, or so I thought, I found it again in the kitchen, I then went down to the shop and thought I had lost it again, I found it in the kitchen bin, I had mistakenly thrown it in there thinking it was a receipt from the shop.

Anyway, I gave it to my wife to put in her rail pass folder as her emergency fiver.

Also well that ends well.

Back to Manion and his comments...

[Taffin]

beat me to it.

By the way, I lost £5 yesterday walking the dog, or so I thought, I found it again in the kitchen, I then went down to the shop and thought I had lost it again, I found it in the kitchen bin, I had mistakenly thrown it in there thinking it was a receipt from the shop.

Anyway, I gave it to my wife to put in her rail pass folder as her emergency fiver.

Also well that ends well.

Back to Manion and his comments...

Brutal.

[Taffin]

ps - can you ask your wife if she can lend me £5 til the weekend?

[Disgusted]

beat me to it.

By the way, I lost £5 yesterday walking the dog, or so I thought, I found it again in the kitchen, I then went down to the shop and thought I had lost it again, I found it in the kitchen bin, I had mistakenly thrown it in there thinking it was a receipt from the shop.

Anyway, I gave it to my wife to put in her rail pass folder as her emergency fiver.

Also well that ends well.

Back to Manion and his comments...

I put this right above all of Matt's email's to Manion. 

[Parker]

Not at all. The reason the pro league kicked the amateur league to the curb is because the amateur league did everything in its power to keep amateurs as amateurs. Manion being the president of both the amateur and pro leagues ensures there is no incentive to keep amateurs as amateurs. It doesn't matter to him who turns pro and who doesn't because he's in charge of both. So the winners will turn pro and Manion has no reason to keep them as amateurs for financial reasons.

Well, then it can be said that Manion is also the reason for the dilution of the Pro ranks due to giving out so many pro cards, just to chase money. When you have two different presidents, one for the NPC Amatuer and IFBB Pro, both can ensure quality of the ranks. With one President for both, there is a corrupt system in place that seriously needs to change or be looked at.

[Disgusted]

Well, then it can be said that Manion is also the reason for the dilution of the Pro ranks due to giving out so many pro cards, just to chase money. When you have two different presidents, one for the NPC Amatuer and IFBB Pro, both can ensure quality of the ranks. With one President for both, there is a corrupt system in place that seriously needs to change or be looked at.

What's wrong with giving out pro cards to people who place well?

[WannaBePro]

Well, then it can be said that Manion is also the reason for the dilution of the Pro ranks due to giving out so many pro cards, just to chase money. When you have two different presidents, one for the NPC Amatuer and IFBB Pro, both can ensure quality of the ranks. With one President for both, there is a corrupt system in place that seriously needs to change or be looked at.

Wouldn't it be more beneficial for Manion to keep people as amateurs? Think about it, every amateur not only has to pay the NPC card fee, but an entry fee, and they're not allowed to get prize money. That sounds like a way better deal than giving out a pro card and then having to pay the athlete to compete and not even charge entry fees (minus the $200 pro card annual fee or whatever).

[Parker]

What's wrong with giving out pro cards to people who place well?

There is a dilution of the Pro ranks. The quality is far and few between. Take a look at who are winning the Pro cards. Many of these people wouldn't be able to win their Pro cards in the 90s (and even Kamali thanked a judge for "helping" win his Pro card)
The whole system is a money making scheme for Manion and his minions. The Pro card used to be elusive, but dangle that out to people and you get $$$.

Wouldn't it be more beneficial for Manion to keep people as amateurs? Think about it, every amateur not only has to pay the NPC card fee, but an entry fee, and they're not allowed to get prize money. That sounds like a way better deal than giving out a pro card and then having to pay the athlete to compete and not even charge entry fees (minus the $200 pro card annual fee or whatever).

A person can only get away with so much. So, you derive a system in which the person is rewarded. You can always count on more people to churn out, so what you are suggesting makes no sense. You eventually get a backlog, and also the jig is up. You have to cater to a person's ego, sense of self preservation, and that you can only take advantage of people for so long.

[Disgusted]

There is a dilution of the Pro ranks. The quality is far and few between. Take a look at who are winning the Pro cards. Many of these people wouldn't be able to win their Pro cards in the 90s (and even Kamali thanked a judge for "helping" win his Pro card)
The whole system is a money making scheme for Manion and his minions. The Pro card used to be elusive, but dangle that out to people and you get $$$.
A person can only get away with so much. So, you derive a system in which the person is rewarded. You can always count on more people to churn out, so what you are suggesting makes no sense. You eventually get a backlog, and also the jig is up. You have to cater to a person's ego, sense of self preservation, and that you can only take advantage of people for so long.

There is no dilution. Yes more pros equal more money but the quality is due to who ever is winning at the time. The guys who are winning pro shows today don't compare to the guys in the 90's IMO and others but that's not due to too many pro cards. If anything the quality should be better since giving out more pro cards should entice more people to enter shows. Look at some of the guys from years ago like Edgar Fletcher and Matt Mendenhall. These guys just gave up. Today they would have no doubt been pros. I can only imagine what Matt would have looked like if he would have continued to go on as a pro.

[Parker]

There is no dilution. Yes more pros equal more money but the quality is due to who ever is winning at the time. The guys who are winning pro shows today don't compare to the guys in the 90's IMO and others but that's not due to too many pro cards. If anything the quality should be better since giving out more pro cards should entice more people to enter shows. Look at some of the guys from years ago like Edgar Fletcher and Matt Mendenhall. These guys just gave up. Today they would have no doubt been pros. I can only imagine what Matt would have looked like if he would have continued to go on as a pro.

Are you saying this because you make your bread on the clients? More people who compete equals more potential clients. More pro cards given equals more potential clients as well. More potential clients means more advertising for you. Ask yourself this, how would you be perceived if you had Dex, Kai, or Melvin Anthony, Ronnie Coleman, Dennis Wolfe? Or if you were Phil's guru vs. Kamali's?

Yes, there is dilution. People have talked about this for years. Look at the people who have winning their Pro cards. We've even talked about how Phil would fair in the 90s. There are many reasons why there is less quality today than in the past, one is the drugs, another is the genetics, and another the addition of the super heavyweight division, and another is the training. Manion is feeding into this and sees the money that he can gain due in part to people's vanity, especially in the era of social media.

Edgar Fletcher couldn't win his Pro card because his skin was took thick, and he was getting up there in age. Why should he continue? Hell, even Rob Lopez deserved his pro card more than Kamali, but Rob was in a more competitive weight class.

[njflex]

Are you saying this because you make your bread on the clients? More people who compete equals more potential clients. More pro cards given equals more potential clients as well. More potential clients means more advertising for you. Ask yourself this, how would you be perceived if you had Dex, Kai, or Melvin Anthony, Ronnie Coleman, Dennis Wolfe? Or if you were Phil's guru vs. Kamali's?

Yes, there is dilution. People have talked about this for years. Look at the people who have winning their Pro cards. We've even talked about how Phil would fair in the 90s. There are many reasons why there is less quality today than in the past, one is the drugs, another is the genetics, and another the addition of the super heavyweight division, and another is the training. Manion is feeding into this and sees the money that he can gain due in part to people's vanity, especially in the era of social media.

Edgar Fletcher couldn't win his Pro card because his skin was took thick, and he was getting up there in age. Why should he continue? Hell, even Rob Lopez deserved his pro card more than Kamali, but Rob was in a more competitive weight class.

REMEMBER THE P.D.I DEMILLIAS OFFSHOOT PRO LEAGUE YRS AGO,,ALL YOU HAD TO BE WAS A PRO FROM OTHER COUNTRY,WIN A WEIGHT CLASS IN AMATEUR IN THE PAST LIKE A USA BUT NOT OVERALL 'MEANING A CLOSE TO PRO CARD'IT FOLDED 1 SHOW 'PRIEST'WON IT...

[Parker]

REMEMBER THE P.D.I DEMILLIAS OFFSHOOT PRO LEAGUE YRS AGO,,ALL YOU HAD TO BE WAS A PRO FROM OTHER COUNTRY,WIN A WEIGHT CLASS IN AMATEUR IN THE PAST LIKE A USA BUT NOT OVERALL 'MEANING A CLOSE TO PRO CARD'IT FOLDED 1 SHOW 'PRIEST'WON IT...

Yep. I remember that.

[Powerlift66]

beat me to it.

By the way, I lost £5 yesterday walking the dog, or so I thought, I found it again in the kitchen, I then went down to the shop and thought I had lost it again, I found it in the kitchen bin, I had mistakenly thrown it in there thinking it was a receipt from the shop.

Anyway, I gave it to my wife to put in her rail pass folder as her emergency fiver.

Also well that ends well.

Back to Manion and his comments...

LMAO 

[Disgusted]

Are you saying this because you make your bread on the clients? More people who compete equals more potential clients. More pro cards given equals more potential clients as well. More potential clients means more advertising for you. Ask yourself this, how would you be perceived if you had Dex, Kai, or Melvin Anthony, Ronnie Coleman, Dennis Wolfe? Or if you were Phil's guru vs. Kamali's?

Yes, there is dilution. People have talked about this for years. Look at the people who have winning their Pro cards. We've even talked about how Phil would fair in the 90s. There are many reasons why there is less quality today than in the past, one is the drugs, another is the genetics, and another the addition of the super heavyweight division, and another is the training. Manion is feeding into this and sees the money that he can gain due in part to people's vanity, especially in the era of social media.

Edgar Fletcher couldn't win his Pro card because his skin was took thick, and he was getting up there in age. Why should he continue? Hell, even Rob Lopez deserved his pro card more than Kamali, but Rob was in a more competitive weight class.

First of all I haven't trained anyone since 2008 maybe a few people here and there. What has that got to do with the NPC making available more ways to turn pro?  

You are not making too great of a point. You say that Phil would not have turned pro in the 90's. What does that have to do with anything?? He turned pro because he deserved to win a pro qualifier. There are plenty of guys who turned pro in the 70's and 80's that look horrible but they won their show due to I would guess being that best that competed on that particular day.

It's actually harder to get a pro card today. Yes they are offering more placings to turn pro but there is also 5 times more people coming into these shows so your odds of winning are worse.

Also Edgar Fletcher did not turn pro because his skin was too thick.   He didn't turn pro because he was beat by someone better. My point was if they would have given out a pro card to the top 2 like today then he would have been a pro and NO ONE would have complained.

[Simple Simon]

First of all I haven't trained anyone since 2008 maybe a few people here and there. What has that got to do with the NPC making available more ways to turn pro?  

You are not making too great of a point. You say that Phil would not have turned pro in the 90's. What does that have to do with anything?? He turned pro because he deserved to win a pro qualifier. There are plenty of guys who turned pro in the 70's and 80's that look horrible but they won their show due to I would guess being that best that competed on that particular day.

It's actually harder to get a pro card today. Yes they are offering more placings to turn pro but there is also 5 times more people coming into these shows so your odds of winning are worse.

Also Edgar Fletcher did not turn pro because his skin was too thick.   He didn't turn pro because he was beat by someone better. My point was if they would have given out a pro card to the top 2 like today then he would have been a pro and NO ONE would have complained.

hang on there, you got Radu ready for Sev..........



Then again thats best left of the CV. 

[Ron]

More clarity helps with the changes, and I know there are a lot of people and competitors all around the world that are happy with this.   As for the pros, yes, 15 years ago, there was only two or three divisions.  Now, I think we have 7 or 8 divisions with a lot of pro cards.  So of course there are more pro cards.

[Disgusted]

hang on there, you got Radu ready for Sev..........



Then again thats best left of the CV. 

Guilty as charged.    I'm still helping him.

[Disgusted]

Here's a pic of Mr. Thickskinned. 

[Simple Simon]

Guilty as charged.    I'm still helping him.

is he competing again?

[Disgusted]

is he competing again?

Yes.