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Author Topic: 2017 IFBB Asia Grand Prix - Flex Lewis v Hadi Hadi Choopan - Who was better?  (Read 1864 times)
TheGreatOak
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« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2017, 10:11:04 PM »

Thighs too big on Hadi....spoils the proportions because his calves not in proportion. Shoulders wide and impressive on Hadi. Extremities let him down.

I don't see how anyone can think this was close. Raymond was huge as well but not as aesthetic.


Jose Raymond has a far more aesthetic upper body than Flex, simply better in every way. From the vacuum pose, to the chest thickness, lat size, from the front, back and sides his upper body outclasses Flex's. It's not just an upper body game and his thighs aren't as big as Flex's but that's his only weakpoint compared to Flex.

If anything, Flex's calves are too big for his thighs. Ronnie Coleman won 8 straight Olympia's with calves that were too small for his thighs. Hadi looks fantastic and will win a lot of shows if he keeps this shape.
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Vince B
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« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2017, 01:51:57 AM »

Jose Raymond has a far more aesthetic upper body than Flex, simply better in every way. From the vacuum pose, to the chest thickness, lat size, from the front, back and sides his upper body outclasses Flex's. It's not just an upper body game and his thighs aren't as big as Flex's but that's his only weakpoint compared to Flex.

If anything, Flex's calves are too big for his thighs. Ronnie Coleman won 8 straight Olympia's with calves that were too small for his thighs. Hadi looks fantastic and will win a lot of shows if he keeps this shape.

Ah, how the standards change to suit guys like Coleman. A shame, really, because his calves were suspect. Ditto for Dexter and perhaps others. No need to bring up lagging body parts just give the judges what they want and you can win. Dorian won with half a biceps so that shows you what the judging standard is like.

Flex has amazing calves that are in proportion to his arms and forearms. Hadi and the others not so much.
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TheGreatOak
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« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2017, 02:01:45 AM »

Ah, how the standards change to suit guys like Coleman. A shame, really, because his calves were suspect. Ditto for Dexter and perhaps others. No need to bring up lagging body parts just give the judges what they want and you can win. Dorian won with half a biceps so that shows you what the judging standard is like.

Flex has amazing calves that are in proportion to his arms and forearms. Hadi and the others not so much.


It's about personal preference and what you choose to focus on. I personally think Hadi looks absolutely fine. His calves being a tiny bit smaller than his thighs are the same as Flex's thighs being a tiny bit too small for his calves. Just about personal preference. There's not a set rule (ala Coleman, Dorian) where calves have to match arms, etc.

Hadi is catching upto Flex, though.
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Vince B
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« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2017, 03:30:06 AM »

It's about personal preference and what you choose to focus on. I personally think Hadi looks absolutely fine. His calves being a tiny bit smaller than his thighs are the same as Flex's thighs being a tiny bit too small for his calves. Just about personal preference. There's not a set rule (ala Coleman, Dorian) where calves have to match arms, etc.

Hadi is catching upto Flex, though.

If you are replying to the op re who looks better that is one thing. Arguing about judging criterion is another thing and hopefully not so subjective.

You may prefer a type of physique but that doesn't mean it is better re judging criterion.

For example, Steve Reeves had a great physique that would not place in the Olympia today.
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Be There
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« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2017, 03:33:16 AM »

If you are replying to the op re who looks better that is one thing. Arguing about judging criterion is another thing and hopefully not so subjective.

You may prefer a type of physique but that doesn't mean it is better re judging criterion.

For example, Steve Reeves had a great physique that would not place in the Olympia today.


If I was a judge and Bob Paris walked out at his best at the 2018 Olympia I would place him first as that's my personal opinion, as a judge you cant do that, you have to toe the line...
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Vince B
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« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2017, 03:35:51 AM »

If I was a judge and Bob Paris walked out at his best at the 2018 Olympia I would place him first as that's my personal opinion, as a judge you cant do that, you have to toe the line...

No, not at all. You simply have to apply the criterion accurately and fairly to pick the winner. Our preferences are there but we should be as objective as possible.
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« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2017, 03:43:32 AM »

No, not at all. You simply have to apply the criterion accurately and fairly to pick the winner. Our preferences are there but we should be as objective as possible.

care to try and define the current IFBB standard criteria?
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Vince B
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« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2017, 03:58:00 AM »

care to try and define the current IFBB standard criteria?

Manion is the person to contact for this information. However, each of us should be able to judge the Mr Olympia independent of that criterion. It isn't as if once we know it that we will start doing things differently.

Over the last couple of decades two things have evolved to be the most important. Conditioning and how good the back plus glutes are developed/conditioned. The judges can assess who is really cut but it isn't

so easy to apply criterion such as proportions, shape and aesthetics to the process. Instead of transparency we now have individual scores hidden from everyone. They also have a system where they put down

judges who don't pick who everyone else is picking. After every Olympia winners feel they deserved the title. Yet, the debates continue about who should have won.
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TheGreatOak
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« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2017, 04:17:04 AM »

Phil gets a lot of hate, as is evident by one of his recent video clips where he bluntly addresses the haters. The fact is, though, that Phil is the best bodybuilder in the World. People can hate him all they want but the judges have gotten it right.

Someone like Flex vs. Hadi vs. Jose is much closer because Flex has more weakpoints than Phil, particularly his back.
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« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2017, 05:59:12 AM »

Manion is the person to contact for this information. However, each of us should be able to judge the Mr Olympia independent of that criterion. It isn't as if once we know it that we will start doing things differently.

Over the last couple of decades two things have evolved to be the most important. Conditioning and how good the back plus glutes are developed/conditioned. The judges can assess who is really cut but it isn't

so easy to apply criterion such as proportions, shape and aesthetics to the process. Instead of transparency we now have individual scores hidden from everyone. They also have a system where they put down

judges who don't pick who everyone else is picking. After every Olympia winners feel they deserved the title. Yet, the debates continue about who should have won.


that information isnt in the public domain, it never has been,
https://www.ifbb.com/rules/
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B R
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« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2017, 06:07:17 AM »

Phil gets a lot of hate, as is evident by one of his recent video clips where he bluntly addresses the haters. The fact is, though, that Phil is the best bodybuilder in the World. People can hate him all they want but the judges have gotten it right.

Someone like Flex vs. Hadi vs. Jose is much closer because Flex has more weakpoints than Phil, particularly his back.

Hi Phil.
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Vince B
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« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2017, 07:00:45 AM »

that information isnt in the public domain, it never has been,
https://www.ifbb.com/rules/

What has evolved is the head judge picks the first call out and the judges know these are 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Easy enough to put the winner in the middle.

This method ensures that the judges don't err and are collectively consistent.
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