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Author Topic: Gun Control  (Read 2714 times)
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« on: October 02, 2017, 04:11:55 PM »

Never let a tragedy stop you from furthering a political agenda. 

Facts Be Damned: Journalists Lobby for Gun Control After Shooting

By Chris Reeves | October 2, 2017

On Monday’s daily White House briefing, journalists went into overdrive, pushing for Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee-Sanders to talk about gun control and what President Trump was planning on doing policy-wise after Sunday's mass shooting in Las Vegas.

As soon as Huckabee-Sanders finished with an emotional statement commenting on the shooting, reporters immediately jumped in with questions about what the President’s thoughts were on gun control:

JEFF MASON [REUTERS]: Sarah, many times when these horrible massacres occur, it leads to questions about gun control. Has this particular massacre made the president think anything more about pursuing tighter gun laws such as background checks to prevent the massacres like this from happening again?

(...)

JEFF ZELENY [CNN]: To follow on that Sarah though, do you believe that, or does the President believe that this is a moment that this is a time when this should not be a political discussion, it should be a policy discussion? Does he believe that he could bring something new to the gun debate that has been, you know, uh, I guess a locked-in typical politics for so many years?

(...)

ZELENY: But before, if I could follow up, before he was elected President, in some fifteen or sixteen years ago, he did have a different view on guns than he had during the campaign. Does he believe that this is something that he could lead a bipartisan effort on at some point? At what point would that be appropriate?
Later during the briefing, two particularly obnoxious questions came from Hallie Jackson of NBC News and Steven Portnoy of CBS News Radio that expressly pushed Democrat Party talking points from Senator Chris Murphy and Hillary Clinton:

See below for a full transcript of the list of questions from today’s briefing:

2:13 PM EST

MAJOR GARRETT [CBS]: Can you tell us a little bit about how the President first learned about it and your engagement with him, his own personal reaction to the events of today? And he also said in the Oval [Office] he might spend more than a day in Las Vegas, was he referring to a couple of days there?

(...)

GARRETT: Have you had a chance to talk to him about his own, how he dealt with this?

(...)

JEFF MASON [REUTERS]: Sarah, many times when these horrible massacres occur, it leads to questions about gun control. Has this particular massacre made the president think anything more about pursuing tighter gun laws such as background checks to prevent the massacres like this from happening again?

(...)

JEFF ZELENY [CNN]: To follow on that Sarah though, do you believe that, or does the President believe that this is a moment that this is a time when this should not be a political discussion, it should be a policy discussion? Does he believe that he could bring something new to the gun debate that has been, you know, uh, I guess a locked-in typical politics for so many years?

(...)

ZELENY: But before, if I could follow up, before he was elected President, in some fifteen or sixteen years ago, he did have a different view on guns than he had during the campaign. Does he believe that this is something that he could lead a bipartisan effort on at some point? At what point would that be appropriate?

(...)

MATTHEW NUSSBAUM [POLITICO]: Thanks, Sarah. On Puerto Rico, can you tell us a little bit about the president's aims for his visit tomorrow? And do you expect any tension given some of his comments over the weekend?     

(...)

NUSSBAUM: From some of his comments over the weekend like the folks down there wanted everything done for them, do you expect that to come up in any of these conversations?

(...)

CECILIA VEGA [ABC]: Let me just pick up on that. Who exactly wants everything done? You said “they?”

(...)

VEGA: And then just back up to today’s tragedy really quickly if I may, does the president believe that what happened amounts to an act of domestic terrorism?

(...)

JOHN ROBERTS [FOX NEWS]: Over the weekend, this was pointed out, the President was very sharply critical of Carmen Yulín Cruz, who’s the mayor of San Juan. Other than her comments on Friday morning, in which she criticized Elaine Duke for saying this was a good news story in terms of DHS getting supplies out to areas that were needed, what was she was doing that prompted such criticism from the President?

(...)

ASHLEY PARKER [THE WASHINGTON POST]: Has Tom Price reimbursed the government yet for his seat on those flights and if not, is there a specific deadline when you and the President expect him to do so by?

(...)

JORDAN FABIAN [THE HILL]: Thank you Sarah. Given what the President said about Secretary of State Tillerson's outreach to North Korea over the weekend, does the President still have confidence in him as Secretary of State? 

HUCKABEE-SANDERS: He does.

FABIAN: Has he spoken to him since those, since he sent out those tweets?

(...)

JON DECKER [FOX NEWS RADIO]: Thanks a lot Sarah. It's a very sad day in this country as you mentioned at the top and as the President said in his remarks. He said that when he goes out to Las Vegas, he's going to meet with first responders and in addition to that families of the victims that were impacted by this. What's the message to each of those groups when he goes out there?

(...)

JESSICA STONE [CGTN]: Sarah, thank you. And following up on the tweets about the [inaudible] over the weekend, the President tweeted: “Save your energy Rex, we'll do what has to be done!” So is it the stated position of the White House that you're trying to get back to talks or have you given up?

(...)

STONE: The Secretary of State talked about those three [inaudible] lines of communication with Pyongyang, that’s what you’re primarily using it for? You’re not using it to try to get, measure what their plans are?

(...)

HALLIE JACKSON [NBC NEWS]: Sarah, can I follow on that? I also wanna ask you about today, but does the President believe diplomacy then is not worth pursuing in North Korea?

(...)

JACKSON: And then asking about today as well, you talked about how now is not the time to get into a gun control debate or to talk about policy. After the Orlando shooting, the President that day was out on Twitter talking about policy. He was talking about his travel ban. So, when, for example, Senator Chris Murphy says it's time for Congress to get off its ass and do something, does the President agree?

(...)

JACKSON: So what should they do in the President’s mind?

(...)

JACKSON: So related to gun control, “What would the President like to see Congress do?” is the question I wanna get out.

(...)

JACKSON: Can you explain how that’s different for Orlando though Sarah, when at that day, he was talking about the travel ban, saying he didn’t want congratulations, essentially? Why is what’s happened...

(...)
               
STEVEN PORTNOY [CBS NEWS RADIO]:Thanks, Sarah. I do want to ask you because before last night's massacre, a bill was advancing through the House, Republicans cleared it through the House Committee on natural resources that would, among other things, make it easier for people to buy silencers. Hillary Clinton tweeted about it this morning, she said that “Imagine the deaths if the shooter had a silencer, which the NRA wants to make easier to get.” Does the White House have a position on this particular piece of legislation?

(...)

LOUISE RADNOFSKY [WSJ]: Sarah, are there any policy prescriptions that the President considers to be out of bounds on the policy debate that will happen in the next few weeks. Could you articulate a little bit what his position on gun control is?

(...)

FRED LUCAS [THE DAILY SIGNAL]: Just wanted to ask about the reso-, bill, the Congress McCain-Lee Act, which would give a permanent exemption to Puerto Rico from the Jones Act. Would the administration consider either a permanent repeal of the Jones Act or at least an exemption from it for Puerto Rico at some point?

(...)

LUCAS: Okay. Also, on the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett, there have been some attacks among Senators, some in the media, on her religious beliefs. Does the White House have some concerns about that?

(...)

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/chris-reeves/2017/10/02/facts-be-damned-journalists-lobby-gun-control-after-shooting
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2017, 04:20:50 PM »

Tomi Lahren: Las Vegas Victims Were Americans, Not Democrats or Republicans

In her newest Final Thoughts commentary, Tomi Lahren reacts to the Las Vegas massacre...

Las Vegas, I have no words to describe how heartbroken I am. Las Vegas was my college town, it was my home for four years. My heart breaks for you, for the city, for what you’re going through.

The deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history with the death toll rising by the hour. It’s times like these and tragedies like this that put it all in perspective. Those innocent people at that concert weren’t Democrats or Republicans, they were Americans. It’s sick and sad some can’t see it that way. Like the now former CBS vice president and senior counsel who took to Facebook to say quote: I’m actually not even sympathetic because country music fans often are Republican gun toters."

Listen here Hayley Geftman-Gold, it’s those Republican gun-toters who would risk their lives to protect you in any active shooter situation and it’s very sad you’re too ignorant and hateful to see it that way. You make me sick but you’re not the only one.

Last year’s failed presidential candidate Hillary Clinton wasted zero time before she made this tragedy into an anti-gun political talking point. First of all Hillary, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Second, how dare you. You’re going to blame this senseless shooting on the NRA and law-abiding gun owners, really? For what? To advance your own agenda and political aspirations? Do some soul-searching and learn about firearms before you open your mouth.

The notion that a crazed, heartless monster willing and excited to slaughter thousands of innocent concert-goers from the 32nd floor of a hotel would somehow be stopped by more gun control is liberal logic at its most tone deaf.

And need I remind you, when shots rang out it wasn't the kneelers, it wasn't protesters, it wasn't Hollywood liberals who ran into danger to serve and protect, it was our police officers who held the line as they always do. When chaos and violence erupt, police officers and first responders don’t care what color you are, who you voted for, or even how you feel about them. They are the first ones in, the last ones out and sadly, some never return home to their loved ones. Amidst all the speculation, all the motive-seeking, all the politics, one thing is certain, our police officers and first responders are heroes among us and Las Vegas is blessed with some of the finest.

Las Vegas, we are with you. From L.A., God bless and take care.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/10/02/tomi-lahrens-final-thoughts-las-vegas-victims-were-americans-not-democrats-or-republicans
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2017, 05:55:19 PM »

No amount of gun control will stop criminals from getting guns and making the unarmed into victims.
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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2017, 06:09:55 PM »

right on cue

we can never talk about gun control when a mass shooting has happened

just totally inappropriate

same goes for almost any topic

If there is a bad fire it's not the time to talk about fire codes

If a building falls down during an earthquake that is absolutely not the time to talk about building codes

If someone dies from diabetes that is definitely not the time to talk about the shitting eating habits in this country

This country is full of very sensitive snowflakes (especially on the right) and they need to be a safe space before confronting their mind with these confusing topics

There really is almost no right time.  Maybe one day a month, in the dead of winter at 2am.

That might be the right time
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2017, 06:14:22 PM »

right on cue

we can never talk about gun control when a mass shooting has happened

just totally inappropriate

same goes for almost any topic

If there is a bad fire it's not the time to talk about fire codes

If a building falls down during an earthquake that is absolutely not the time to talk about building codes

If someone dies from diabetes that is definitely not the time to talk about the shitting eating habits in this country

This country is full of very sensitive snowflakes (especially on the right) and they need to be a safe space before confronting their mind with these confusing topics

There really is almost no right time.  Maybe one day a month, in the dead of winter at 2am.

That might be the right time
What's to talk about? Gun deaths are a miniscule amount of deaths per year in the US, there are far more deadly issues to discuss.
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2017, 06:17:34 PM »

What's to talk about? Gun deaths are a miniscule amount of deaths per year in the US, there are far more deadly issues to discuss.

I'm for loosening gun laws or getting rid of all restrctions

We have millions of guns floating around this country and we'll never get rid of them

Can't put the toothpaste back in the tube on this

Everyone really needs to be armed at all times (not joking)

You never know when someone is going start shooting up a theater, shopping mall or shooting out the window from a high rise

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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2017, 06:26:02 PM »

I'm for loosening gun laws or getting rid of all restrctions

We have millions of guns floating around this country and we'll never get rid of them

Can't put the toothpaste back in the tube on this

Everyone really needs to be armed at all times (not joking)

You never know when someone is going start shooting up a theater, shopping mall or shooting out the window from a high rise



Damn straight


* 1506997054037.jpg (115.38 KB, 500x628 - viewed 200 times.)
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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2017, 06:26:44 PM »

I'm for loosening gun laws or getting rid of all restrctions

We have millions of guns floating around this country and we'll never get rid of them

Can't put the toothpaste back in the tube on this

Everyone really needs to be armed at all times (not joking)

You never know when someone is going start shooting up a theater, shopping mall or shooting out the window from a high rise



Damn straight


* 1506997054037.jpg (115.38 KB, 500x628 - viewed 185 times.)
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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2017, 06:37:56 PM »

I'm for loosening gun laws or getting rid of all restrctions

We have millions of guns floating around this country and we'll never get rid of them

Can't put the toothpaste back in the tube on this

Everyone really needs to be armed at all times (not joking)

You never know when someone is going start shooting up a theater, shopping mall or shooting out the window from a high rise


Meh.
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« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2017, 07:53:12 PM »

Meh.

you disagree?

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« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2017, 07:58:50 PM »

yes.. there are no mass tragedies in other countries where owning a gun is impossible....


no trucks, no knives, bombs are used to cause mass casualties......


just guns right??
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« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2017, 09:24:06 PM »

No amount of gun control will stop criminals from getting guns and making the unarmed into victims.

Yes.

It’s a simple if uncomfortable moral calculus:  Annually there are perhaps a few dozen killed and wounded in so-called mass-attack shootings (in addition to 12-15,000 gun-related homicides); but there are hundreds of thousands – perhaps millions – of annual instances of people using guns for defensive purposes.  Instances in which people merely brandished their weapons to thwart an attack, robbery, or killing – no shots fired.  These instances are not widely reported.

Like speed limits, tax laws, and restraining orders, gun laws are only as good as the citizens who obey them.

If you could wave a magic wand and confiscate all firearms, only law-abiding citizens would lose their weapons, and rape, murder, and assault rates would skyrocket.

“If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have them.”
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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2017, 07:06:30 AM »

President Trump: ‘We’ll Be Talking About Gun Laws’
breitbart ^ | AWR HAWKINS
Posted on 10/3/2017, 11:02:05 AM by davikkm

President Trump reacted to the Las Vegas attack by saying, “We’ll be talking about gun laws as time goes by.” According to the Washington Times, Trump praised the police response to the attack, saying on Tuesday the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police did an “incredible job.” He added, “How quickly the police department was able to get in was really very much of a miracle. They’ve done an amazing job.”

But after praising the police, Trump made clear a discussion on gun laws is coming:

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/915202597144989697

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2017, 09:52:56 AM »

No amount of gun control will stop criminals from getting guns and making the unarmed into victims.

Truth. 
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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2017, 09:54:05 AM »

Yes.

It’s a simple if uncomfortable moral calculus:  Annually there are perhaps a few dozen killed and wounded in so-called mass-attack shootings (in addition to 12-15,000 gun-related homicides); but there are hundreds of thousands – perhaps millions – of annual instances of people using guns for defensive purposes.  Instances in which people merely brandished their weapons to thwart an attack, robbery, or killing – no shots fired.  These instances are not widely reported.

Like speed limits, tax laws, and restraining orders, gun laws are only as good as the citizens who obey them.

If you could wave a magic wand and confiscate all firearms, only law-abiding citizens would lose their weapons, and rape, murder, and assault rates would skyrocket.

“If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have them.”

Good point.  Would be interesting of someone tracked the actual numbers of lives saved because of gun ownership. 
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« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2017, 09:55:14 AM »

Incensed Sean Hannity Says Talking Gun Control After Las Vegas Is ‘Shameful’
The Fox News host said it was “despicable” to “politicize” the mass shooting with talks of gun control.
By Rebecca Shapiro
10/03/2017

Sean Hannity responded to the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history by lambasting Democrats and members of the media who are calling for tougher gun control laws.

The Fox News host accused gun control advocates of “politicizing the tragedy in an absolutely despicable display.” He said such discussions in the wake of the mass shooting, which left nearly 60 people dead and 500 injured at a country music festival in Las Vegas, were “so shameful,” “exploitative” and “pathetic.”

“Bodies weren’t even in the morgue yet,” Hannity said. “Parents were in hospitals with their kids who are hanging on to life. None of this mattered to the left in this country.”

The shooter, identified by police as 64-year-old Stephen Paddock of Mesquite, Nevada, opened fire on 22,000 festival attendees from a 32nd-floor hotel room around 10 p.m. on Sunday night. The attack occurred during the final set of the three-day country music Route 91 Harvest Festival.

Initial reports indicate Paddock had more than 20 guns in his room at the Mandalay Bay Hotel, including AR-15-style and AK-47-style rifles. A law enforcement official quoted by the New York Times said two rifles with scopes on tripods were found positioned in front of the broken windows in Paddock’s room.

Like in many states in the U.S., Nevada’s lax gun laws allow residents to openly carry long guns, and no permit is required for such a display. It’s also legal to own a fully automatic firearm in the state.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sean-hannity-las-vegas-shooting-gun-control-shameful_us_59d2fd64e4b065578154f214?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
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« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2017, 11:02:03 AM »

you disagree?


A little, yes.
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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2017, 09:40:32 AM »

By Leah Libresco October 3 at 3:02 PM

Leah Libresco is a statistician and former newswriter at FiveThirtyEight, a data journalism site. She is the author of “Arriving at Amen.”

Before I started researching gun deaths, gun-control policy used to frustrate me. I wished the National Rifle Association would stop blocking common-sense gun-control reforms such as banning assault weapons, restricting silencers, shrinking magazine sizes and all the other measures that could make guns less deadly.

Then, my colleagues and I at FiveThirtyEight spent three months analyzing all 33,000 lives ended by guns each year in the United States, and I wound up frustrated in a whole new way. We looked at what interventions might have saved those people, and the case for the policies I’d lobbied for crumbled when I examined the evidence. The best ideas left standing were narrowly tailored interventions to protect subtypes of potential victims, not broad attempts to limit the lethality of guns.



After a shooting in Las Vegas left at least 58 people dead and injured hundreds, Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) on Oct. 2 said Congress’s failure to pass gun-control legislation amounts to an “unintentional endorsement” of mass shootings. (U.S. Senate)
I researched the strictly tightened gun laws in Britain and Australia and concluded that they didn’t prove much about what America’s policy should be. Neither nation experienced drops in mass shootings or other gun related-crime that could be attributed to their buybacks and bans. Mass shootings were too rare in Australia for their absence after the buyback program to be clear evidence of progress. And in both Australia and Britain, the gun restrictions had an ambiguous effect on other gun-related crimes or deaths.


When I looked at the other oft-praised policies, I found out that no gun owner walks into the store to buy an “assault weapon.” It’s an invented classification that includes any semi-automatic that has two or more features, such as a bayonet mount, a rocket-propelled grenade-launcher mount, a folding stock or a pistol grip. But guns are modular, and any hobbyist can easily add these features at home, just as if they were snapping together Legos.

As for silencers — they deserve that name only in movies, where they reduce gunfire to a soft puick puick. In real life, silencers limit hearing damage for shooters but don’t make gunfire dangerously quiet. An AR-15 with a silencer is about as loud as a jackhammer. Magazine limits were a little more promising, but a practiced shooter could still change magazines so fast as to make the limit meaningless.

As my co-workers and I kept looking at the data, it seemed less and less clear that one broad gun-control restriction could make a big difference. Two-thirds of gun deaths in the United States every year are suicides. Almost no proposed restriction would make it meaningfully harder for people with guns on hand to use them. I couldn't even answer my most desperate question: If I had a friend who had guns in his home and a history of suicide attempts, was there anything I could do that would help?

However, the next-largest set of gun deaths — 1 in 5 — were young men aged 15 to 34, killed in homicides. These men were most likely to die at the hands of other young men, often related to gang loyalties or other street violence. And the last notable group of similar deaths was the 1,700 women murdered per year, usually as the result of domestic violence. Far more people were killed in these ways than in mass-shooting incidents, but few of the popularly floated policies were tailored to serve them.

By the time we published our project, I didn’t believe in many of the interventions I’d heard politicians tout. I was still anti-gun, at least from the point of view of most gun owners, and I don’t want a gun in my home, as I think the risk outweighs the benefits. But I can’t endorse policies whose only selling point is that gun owners hate them. Policies that often seem as if they were drafted by people who have encountered guns only as a figure in a briefing book or an image on the news.

Instead, I found the most hope in more narrowly tailored interventions. Potential suicide victims, women menaced by their abusive partners and kids swept up in street vendettas are all in danger from guns, but they each require different protections.

 Play Video 1:54
Was the Las Vegas shooting the worst in U.S. history? It depends.
While the attack on the Las Vegas strip is the deadliest in modern American history, attacks in the 19th and 20th centuries had higher death tolls. Here are two deadly events in American history that you may not have heard about. (Victoria Walker/The Washington Post)
Older men, who make up the largest share of gun suicides, need better access to people who could care for them and get them help. Women endangered by specific men need to be prioritized by police, who can enforce restraining orders prohibiting these men from buying and owning guns. Younger men at risk of violence need to be identified before they take a life or lose theirs and to be connected to mentors who can help them de-escalate conflicts.


Even the most data-driven practices, such as New Orleans’ plan to identify gang members for intervention based on previous arrests and weapons seizures, wind up more personal than most policies floated. The young men at risk can be identified by an algorithm, but they have to be disarmed one by one, personally — not en masse as though they were all interchangeable. A reduction in gun deaths is most likely to come from finding smaller chances for victories and expanding those solutions as much as possible. We save lives by focusing on a range of tactics to protect the different kinds of potential victims and reforming potential killers, not from sweeping bans focused on the guns themselves.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-used-to-think-gun-control-was-the-answer-my-research-told-me-otherwise/2017/10/03/d33edca6-a851-11e7-92d1-58c702d2d975_story.html?utm_term=.22553478328e
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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2017, 09:57:35 AM »

The US doesn't have a gun problem... it has a black and mexican problem...


Goverment Supplied STATS:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/the-one-gun-violence-statistic-that-no-one-wants-to-talk-about/


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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2017, 09:13:49 PM »

I own a few guns, always have probably always will. But I don't agree with the position "There's nothing we can do, so lets do nothing"
I agree automatic weapons, machine guns shouldn't be available to the average joe. But allowing dealers to sell add ons that make a semi auto an auto to me is just plain stupid.
I don't think there is a very good reason for owning AK 47's and similar rifles, nor do I like hi capacity magazines being available. Sure, its cool to drink a beer and blow through  a couple hundred rounds in a minute with your buddies every once in awhile, but the potential for them to be used against humans is not worth it.
I don't know that banning them now would matter, as the horse has left the barn. But certainly there should be dialogue about not making work arounds to the machine gun ban readily available.    
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« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2017, 09:20:01 PM »

Incensed Sean Hannity Says Talking Gun Control After Las Vegas Is ‘Shameful’

Hannity makes a fair point

whenever there is a terrorist attack that it's shameful at that time to talk about preventing another attack

same goes for plane crashes...not the time to talk about plane safety

it's just shameful at that time

at some other unspecified time in the future it might be ok

no promises
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« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2017, 09:22:26 PM »

Hannity makes a fair point

whenever there is a terrorist attack that it's shameful at that time to talk about preventing another attack

same goes for plane crashes...not the time to talk about plane safety

it's just shameful at that time

at some other unspecified time in the future it might be ok

no promises

Within minutes of anything involving a Muslim, Trump is on tweeter calling for stricter bans... hmmm I wonder if Hannity called him out?
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« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2017, 09:26:23 PM »

Within minutes of anything involving a Muslim, Trump is on tweeter calling for stricter bans... hmmm I wonder if Hannity called him out?

pointing out that fact is just shameful

now is not the time
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« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2017, 09:29:02 PM »

pointing out that fact is just shameful

now is not the time

My bad
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Yamcha
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Fundie


« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2017, 04:16:23 AM »

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