Texas Church shooting - 27 dead - 30 injured

[Simple Simon]

Yes, totally agree.  Calmly, slowing shooting at paper targets is not the same thing as training to fight with a firearm.

Fortunately, there are a growing number of places that will provide people with real world tactical training.  Much more in depth than a basic CCW course that does incorporate simulated stress.

Still no way to know for sure how you will react when bullets start flying for real.

and they will be attended by people intent on doing harm to others in mass shootings.

Fucks sake you are now training lunatics to be able to kill more people.

[BB]

Babyslayer looking trim.

Solid semi-obscure comment .

[SuperTed]

Babyslayer is George Leeman right?

[SuperTed]

You are absolutely right.  However, we shouldn't let people pretend it's impossible to defend ourselves and use that as an excuse to restrict our God given right to do so.

Like I said, look at today, the guy who shot at the killer was 80 fucking years old and he effectively stopped the rampage (according to reports).

The thing is, he had already killed over two dozen people before he could be stopped. As phreak has said, many people would simply freeze if they hear gunfire in a real life situation. How many people have genuine battle experience to remain calm in that situation? When someone opens fire, there will be panic since nobody will know what the fuck is happening. Also, if someone pulls out their gun to stop the shooter, someone else may mistake them as the villain. It could turn chaotic with multiple people shooting at one another.

[phreak]

Solid semi-obscure comment .

You're welcome. I wanted to salute a tranny banger from another sport.

[phreak]

The thing is, he had already killed over two dozen people before he could be stopped. As phreak has said, many people would simply freeze if they hear gunfire in a real life situation. How many people have genuine battle experience to remain calm in that situation? When someone opens fire, there will be panic since nobody will know what the fuck is happening. Also, if someone pulls out their gun to stop the shooter, someone else may mistake them as the villain. It could turn chaotic with multiple people shooting at one another.

All valid points, but what is the alternative? Sure, mistakes can and will be made during chaotic shootings. But if I ask you what you personally would want to do in such a situation, would you want to cower and be executed? Or at least attempt to save yourself and loved ones -- even if you may fail, or shoot the wrong person first, or even get shot by the wrong person while trying to stop the actual perpetrator?

Who would choose waiting for certain death, when there is a small chance that taking action could help?

[illuminati]

You are absolutely right.  However, we shouldn't let people pretend it's impossible to defend ourselves and use that as an excuse to restrict our God given right to do so.

Like I said, look at today, the guy who shot at the killer was 80 fucking years old and he effectively stopped the rampage (according to reports).

Like I said, look at today, the guy who shot at the killer was 80 fucking years old and he effectively stopped the rampage (according to reports).

If true that man is a hero.
80yrs young & going strong.

[BB]

Babyslayer is George Leeman right?

Yeah, that was/is his bodybuilding.com name.

[FREAKgeek]

God was and is there redeeming souls that come to him in repentance and faith.

Believers are not promised an easy life.  In fact they're promised a very difficult life if they remain in Christ.

The answer to humanity's evil is found in the very place these murders were committed.  The faithful of God were gunned down mercilessly and now are in the eternal presence of our Lord, God and savior.  

Some folks die peacefully in their sleep while others die because of twisted evil.  Often when the evil of humanity is the source of death is God blamed for doing nothing.  Yet objectors of God completely miss that Jesus Christ already provided the means to save humanity.....it's at our fingertips.

This is very contradictory. There are too many biblical passages that claim god answers the prayers to the true and faith, ie faith as small as a mustard seed can move mountains. It never mentions any caveats.

It also undermines the validity of god when your defense is simply, anything still goes and can happen. That is on par to something that's imaginary.

Surprised you didn't have the balls to say they all lacked the faith!

[Pray_4_War]

The thing is, he had already killed over two dozen people before he could be stopped. As phreak has said, many people would simply freeze if they hear gunfire in a real life situation. How many people have genuine battle experience to remain calm in that situation? When someone opens fire, there will be panic since nobody will know what the fuck is happening. Also, if someone pulls out their gun to stop the shooter, someone else may mistake them as the villain. It could turn chaotic with multiple people shooting at one another.

So what are you saying, we should give up our right do defend ourselves and not bother trying because something bad might happen or our attempt to defend ourselves might not work? 

We'd be better served to just sit there and wait for him to slay our family and shoot us in the face?

Nonsense.

[rocket]

Ok. They ban guns in UK at 1997, and mass murders increase, so there has been about equal amount mass murders between 1900- 1997 than 1997 -2017.

I'm not interested in debating gun control (I don't see how it works in the US), but let's be clear.  If you think you actually have a point with that pissant, fuckhead wool-over-eyes attempt at statistical manipulation, kill yourself now, so there is one less moron in your country.

I don't think you're a moron.  I think you're a statistics weasel.  A member of the group of gun lovers who can't just tell the truth and seek to lie to further their cause.

Start telling the truth

Homocide Rates
US per 100k 4.88
UK per 100k 0.92

26 Gun murders (equiv. 130) in England vs. *11,004* in US Annually

You're safer in the UK without guns, period.  Stop talking shit and start admitting that guns, when available, increase the homocide rate.  It's okay.  We all know they do.  You don't have to post dickhead stats like the one you did to try to lie about that.  Guns are fun, too, right?  Guns make people feel like they have chance.  It's not wrong to want to keep guns in your country.  Just quit the bullshitting and keep to the truth.  How do you get rid of 300 million guns in as long as time as it takes for a new regime to move in and repeal it?  How do you stand tough when some people still die from guns and the media turns to spreading Fear Uncertainty and Doubt to sell their papers, popularising the idea that the populace is not safe - having given in their guns, whilst the criminals maintain theirs?

Repulsive use of weak ass statistics not needed.

[Yamcha]

I'm not interested in debating gun control (I don't see how it works in the US), but let's be clear.  If you think you actually have a point with that pissant, fuckhead wool-over-eyes attempt at statistical manipulation, kill yourself now, so there is one less moron in your country.

I don't think you're a moron.  I think you're a statistics weasel.  A member of the group of gun lovers who can't just tell the truth and seek to lie to further their cause.

Start telling the truth

Homocide Rates
US per 100k 4.88
UK per 100k 0.92

26 Gun murders (equiv. 130) in England vs. *11,004* in US Annually

You're safer in the UK without guns, period.  Stop talking shit and start admitting that guns, when available, increase the homocide rate.  It's okay.  We all know they do.  You don't have to post dickhead stats like the one you did to try to lie about that.  Guns are fun, too, right?  Guns make people feel like they have chance.  It's not wrong to want to keep guns in your country.  Just quit the bullshitting and keep to the truth.  How do you get rid of 300 million guns in as long as time as it takes for a new regime to move in and repeal it?  How do you stand tough when some people still die from guns and the media turns to spreading Fear Uncertainty and Doubt to sell their papers, popularising the idea that the populace is not safe - having given in their guns, whilst the criminals maintain theirs?

Repulsive use of weak ass statistics not needed.

[Conker]

Yes, totally agree.  Calmly, slowing shooting at paper targets is not the same thing as training to fight with a firearm.

Fortunately, there are a growing number of places that will provide people with real world tactical training.  Much more in depth than a basic CCW course that does incorporate simulated stress.

Still no way to know for sure how you will react when bullets start flying for real.

yes that is very fortunate because no future random massacre perp will think of attending one of the courses. just the good guys.  

you people are so fkin stupid it's beyond belief. you actually deserve your shtty gun laws and all the consequences that come with it just for being such a bunch of absolute fkin dimwits.

[Parker]

yes that is very fortunate because no future random massacre perp will think of attending one of the courses. just the good guys.  

you people are so fkin stupid it's beyond belief. you actually deserve your shtty gun laws and all the consequences that come with it just for being such a bunch of absolute fkin dimwits.

Again, so what do you propose?

[Pray_4_War]

and they will be attended by people intent on doing harm to others in mass shootings.

Fucks sake you are now training lunatics to be able to kill more people.

Sweet fuck, are there no men left on this planet?  There are growing numbers of people that want to kill you and rape your women and children.  There is en ever increasing number of mentally unstable people that have been taking crazy pills since they were 5 years old.  The shit is going down, if now isn't the time to fight back when is?  What are we waiting for?

[rocket]

So what are you saying, we should give up our right do defend ourselves and not bother trying because something bad might happen or our attempt to defend ourselves might not work?  

We'd be better served to just sit there and wait for him to slay our family and shoot us in the face?

Nonsense.

IF the guns could be removed, without question, you'd be statistically safer.  You would be giving up the right to bear arms to be statistically safer.  Now, unfortunately, most of america (and I bet I'd be the same ) thinks they are Captain Fucking America and if that shit happened, they would coolly execute the perps with tremendous style - so people aren't willing to say "well, I have no personal defence, but I'm less likely to need it anyway and I'm still less likely to die" because they believe themselves to be "above" the average stats.  In a sense, you take the homocide rate of the US and say, divide it by 10 because I'm a stone cold fucking killa, who is always carrying.

And honestly, there may be truth to that.  Homocide rate based on people who carry guns all the time.  Would be an interesting stat.  It could go either way, though - you may actually be statistically more likely to die by carrying a gun

[Conker]

Again, so what do you propose?

get rid of the guns. it's not fkin rocket science. have an amnesty, possibly 2 years or whatever. government buys the guns back after that period 10 year mandatory prison for illegal possession of a firearm.


they did it in australia following a similar massacre and it has worked very well.

[SuperTed]

So what are you saying, we should give up our right do defend ourselves and not bother trying because something bad might happen or our attempt to defend ourselves might not work? 

We'd be better served to just sit there and wait for him to slay our family and shoot us in the face?

Nonsense.

What I'm saying is that the whole "good guy with gun stops a bad guy with gun" doesn't work as well in practice as it does in theory. Chances are, you're likely to get slain before you even figure out what's going on.

[Pray_4_War]

yes that is very fortunate because no future random massacre perp will think of attending one of the courses. just the good guys.  

you people are so fkin stupid it's beyond belief. you actually deserve your shtty gun laws and all the consequences that come with it just for being such a bunch of absolute fkin dimwits.

I hope the bad guys do take the classes, at least that would be a fair fight.

I'm curious Cucker, what Utopia do you hail from?  Who are your countrymen?

[phreak]

I'm not interested in debating gun control (I don't see how it works in the US), but let's be clear.  If you think you actually have a point with that pissant, fuckhead wool-over-eyes attempt at statistical manipulation, kill yourself now, so there is one less moron in your country.

I don't think you're a moron.  I think you're a statistics weasel.  A member of the group of gun lovers who can't just tell the truth and seek to lie to further their cause.

Start telling the truth

Homocide Rates
US per 100k 4.88
UK per 100k 0.92

26 Gun murders (equiv. 130) in England vs. *11,004* in US Annually

You're safer in the UK without guns, period.  Stop talking shit and start admitting that guns, when available, increase the homocide rate.  It's okay.  We all know they do.  You don't have to post dickhead stats like the one you did to try to lie about that.  Guns are fun, too, right?  Guns make people feel like they have chance.  It's not wrong to want to keep guns in your country.  Just quit the bullshitting and keep to the truth.  How do you get rid of 300 million guns in as long as time as it takes for a new regime to move in and repeal it?  How do you stand tough when some people still die from guns and the media turns to spreading Fear Uncertainty and Doubt to sell their papers, popularising the idea that the populace is not safe - having given in their guns, whilst the criminals maintain theirs?

Repulsive use of weak ass statistics not needed.

To give a complete view we would also need the data on ALL forms of murder. Perhaps Brits are killing each other with knives or arson instead. Don't chastise someone for not disclosing the entire picture and then turn around and do it yourself.

[rocket]

To give a complete view we would also need the data on ALL forms of murder. Perhaps Brits are killing each other with knives or arson instead. Don't chastise someone for not disclosing the entire picture and then turn around and do it yourself.

I gave the HOMOCIDE rates, you dunce.

That IS the complete picture.

[Pray_4_War]

get rid of the guns. it's not fkin rocket science. have an amnesty, possibly 2 years or whatever. government buys the guns back after that period 10 year mandatory prison for illegal possession of a firearm.


they did it in australia following a similar massacre and it has worked very well.

Australia and the United States have fuck-all in common geographically and demographically.

Things don't happen in a vacuum.

[phreak]

get rid of the guns. it's not fkin rocket science. have an amnesty, possibly 2 years or whatever. government buys the guns back after that period 10 year mandatory prison for illegal possession of a firearm.


they did it in australia following a similar massacre and it has worked very well.

Cannot speak for Australia, but guns have traditionally been very hard to get legally here in Holland. Background checks, mandatory courses, regular police visits to the home, etc. Yet the number of shootings is rising constantly, and rarely by someone who has a permit.

[phreak]

What I'm saying is that the whole "good guy with gun stops a bad guy with gun" doesn't work as well in practice as it does in theory. Chances are, you're likely to get slain before you even figure out what's going on.

It is true that it does not work very well. Agreed. But the popular conclusion that therefore it is better to sit back and get shot is the better option, that is something I disagree with. Can't speak for your preferences, but I'd rather go out fighting -- no matter how ineptly. And since I reserve that right for myself, I have to also grant it to everyone else.

[phreak]

I gave the HOMOCIDE rates, you dunce.

That IS the complete picture.

Still unsure what 'homocide' is. Must be something islamic.

I did check the homicide rates just now.

United States    4.88    15,696
United Kingdom    0.92    594

Quite a difference! All caused by the difference in gun availability? No other factors?