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Author Topic: Freedom of speech and the 1st ammendment?  (Read 180 times)
Howard
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« on: November 09, 2017, 03:27:13 PM »

I see and hear a lot of people proudly declare they believe in freedom of speech.
They protest or loudly support a political candidate and stand behind their 1st amd rights.

Sounds all fine and dandy, except for 1 thing.
Too many on BOTH sides don't respect the 1st amd. rights of those they disagree with.
In fact, they can downright rude , hateful or even violent.

For example, I didn't vote for Trump, but I recognize the right to campaign for him.
When I saw an enthusiastic Trump voter , waving a USA flag, I thought he was an energized voter.
I am may not agree with them, but I always respected their right to voice their political choice

Many diehard Trump supporters rarely returned the favor .
They felt the need to ridicule and insult anyone who dared to vote for Hillary.
Many on this very forum do/did this . I have no doubt this post will illicit more ridicule of me.

Make no mistake, the hardcore dem liberals hurled their share of vitriolic rhetoric.
The shouting down and personal insults screamed at conservatives boggles the mind.
Thus, BOTH sides are guilty.

I try to be polite or at least attempt humor when making a remark.
I may not be as funny as Yamcha, but I try LOL.

I'm not sure who said this, but it needs to be heard today as it did 230 years ago; (paraphrased)*

" *Real free speech is when I can scream my belief at the top of my lungs . You can yell the opposite view without fear
of violent attack or arrest."



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Howard
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 06:40:32 AM »

FYI, our beloved regular poster Yamcha is a great example of how to be firm on your beliefs and remain funny.
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Kazan
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 07:39:25 AM »

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Do you have any understanding what the 1st amendment actually means? It states the government cannot establish a religion and force you to follow it, or stop you from worshiping a tree in your backyard if you wish. The government cannot stop you from speaking freely, or force the press to tow the government line (aka propaganda), or stop people from assembly peacefully to protest what the government is doing.

Now, while you may not like the way people express their opinion, if .gov is not silencing you or them it has nothing to do with the 1st amendment.
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Howard
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 09:05:56 AM »

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Do you have any understanding what the 1st amendment actually means? It states the government cannot establish a religion and force you to follow it, or stop you from worshiping a tree in your backyard if you wish. The government cannot stop you from speaking freely, or force the press to tow the government line (aka propaganda), or stop people from assembly peacefully to protest what the government is doing.

Now, while you may not like the way people express their opinion, if .gov is not silencing you or them it has nothing to do with the 1st amendment.

This is also known as " the establishment clause" , a key part of the 1st amendment.
You also correctly alluded to the right for free speech and the protection of a free press from GOV intervention.
Obviously, you know the basic framework the US constitution is based on.

You are also correct that polite manners and civility have no legal basis of enforcement.
In fact the nation was founded on "revolution" from a monarch.

Since both sides are rude and obnoxious, the GOV is not prohibiting anyone from speaking.
My point is that CIVILITY is lacking because the people refuse to conform to polite norms.
In my observation this allows the debate to digress into a series of tribal shouting matches.

In my opinion, this ruins the debate and takes the focus off the real issues.
We already know how we feel. If we fail to LISTEN we never learn anything new.
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Kazan
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 09:18:54 AM »

This is also known as " the establishment clause" , a key part of the 1st amendment.
You also correctly alluded to the right for free speech and the protection of a free press from GOV intervention.
Obviously, you know the basic framework the US constitution is based on.

You are also correct that polite manners and civility have no legal basis of enforcement.
In fact the nation was founded on "revolution" from a monarch.

Since both sides are rude and obnoxious, the GOV is not prohibiting anyone from speaking.
My point is that CIVILITY is lacking because the people refuse to conform to polite norms.
In my observation this allows the debate to digress into a series of tribal shouting matches.

In my opinion, this ruins the debate and takes the focus off the real issues.
We already know how we feel. If we fail to LISTEN we never learn anything new.


People act like assholes because they do not have to stand toe to toe with someone. The odds of anyone actually acting like their "internet" personality in day to day life is pretty slim. If they did my guess is they would get their ass kicked on a daily basis.
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Howard
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 09:45:05 AM »

People act like assholes because they do not have to stand toe to toe with someone. The odds of anyone actually acting like their "internet" personality in day to day life is pretty slim. If they did my guess is they would get their ass kicked on a daily basis.

Good point. BUT if I get treated this badly on a forum , imagine how much abuse I'd get in person LOL.

I'm no bad ass and getting older , but, I'm the same basic guy in person as I am on-line.
Over the past 17 years, I've actually met a handful of people from the various forums ( including get big).
I always give a big smile and warm handshake .
Most act a tad sheepish , look down and quietly say something about the rude comments on the forum.

I always laugh that off with dismissive attitude and try to have a friendly conversation.

They seem friendly towards me , but a bit stand offish?
I know I can be a douchebag, maybe they  like me even  less , AFTER meeting  in person ?

I've enjoyed meeting other forum regulars in person at bodybuilding events.
Most posters  seem to avoid it at all costs...or maybe they just don't like me LOL. Embarrassed


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