Author Topic: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!  (Read 29501 times)

Vince B

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18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« on: November 17, 2017, 07:20:05 PM »
Today my arms measure 18 inches cold. Very pleased with my progress. I also proved that broscience is mistaken and that hypertrophy can occur in old age. Not that I consider myself old.

I can tell you the recent workouts were brutal. Heavy weights used and training to failure on all sets after a warmup. Two exercises supersetted. Biceps-supinator machine for biceps and a modified Nautilus triceps machine for triceps. Frequency was extended to maybe every 4th or 5th day because of tenderness in the elbows or other worries....like a sore shoulder obtained from lifting something out behind me in my vehicle.

I want to make a separate thread and not post in the sorry DJ thread about my achievement. No photo today. I am aiming for 18 1/2 inches by the New Year. Even 18 1/4 will be satisfactory because I never had arms over 17 3/4 when I was competing. That was off season then and something like 17 1/4 on contest day. Today I am over 230 pounds so am carrying a bit too much safety fat. I don't see other men my age looking solid like I do.

My strength has increased heaps in the last 3 months. I am using more on both machines than in the past. My protocol is warming up with a light resistance then adding a plate for following sets. As strength goes up so do the number of sets. Over 3 months my total sets have increased by 5 sets. I also do 5 sets on the maximum resistance. I rest long enough to do more than 10 reps.

Building more muscle is very satisfying because so many people scoff at the idea that hypertrophy is possible over 70. It is not only possible but increases beyond previous maximums are also possible.

Vince B

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2017, 07:21:45 PM »
What I have learned since 1968 lifting weights is that muscular growth happens quite slowly most of the time. You usually cannot see the growth happening except over months.

Second point is that there is a relationship between muscular size and strength. If you can bench 225 for 10 reps and have X size arms then if you can bench 275 for 10 reps your arms will be X + 1" or so.

Third point is there are few guys who build huge arms. How come? Well, it could be several things and maybe more than one factor combining to make a difference.
In any population some people are taller, smarter, or whatever we want to measure. Thus, some males will have larger muscles. This is a statistical phenomenon.
One reason for having few huge guys is that perhaps the effort required goes up exponentially. It might take twice or three times the effort to go from 17 inch arms to 19 inch arms.
Since most guys won't invest that much effort or are incapable of doing so, that would explain why there are not many guys with huge arms.
I deduce from these considerations that muscles are reluctant to hypertrophy to the huge state. That means you have to train in a fashion that gives the muscles a reason or need to get bigger.
If this is so then you have to do something extraordinary to keep a muscle growing....it certainly won't grow unless the stimulus is there. I conclude that when I train I have to go to failure
on most sets after warming up. Huge muscles are capable of repeating heavy efforts many times after a short rest. That means I have to do many sets with a stimulating resistance. What I do
is keep the weight the same but rest a bit longer between sets. Of course there are many 'equivalent' protocols that might work as well. You accumulate a few seconds from each set to failure and these add up if
enough sets to failure are done. Perhaps 1 to 2 minutes of extreme intensity must be accumulated from many sets taken to failure. This could be 10 to 20 total sets for biceps and triceps.

Experience has shown me that some exercises are more effective than others re hypertrophy. So this can make a huge difference. You have to find out by trial and error or learn from guys who have
this information. In my case I modified or invented equipment that is more effective for arm training.

How about frequency? When is the ideal time to retrain the growing muscle? This has not been established by exercise science. If we look at when protein synthesis slows or stops then perhaps training
every 2nd or 3rd day is optimal. Mike Mentzer insisted that many trainees required longer intervals to cause more hypertrophy. It is controversial whether a muscle needs to recover before another workout.
Anecdotal information suggests that muscles can still grow even if not fully recovered. There is the issue of repeated bout effect that has to be overcome. Training while still a little sore might overcome that RBE.

Another factor here is safety. The most effective exercises and protocols might not be the safest. I found out through personal experience that it is easy to damage the sheath that goes over the elbow joint.
What this means is that when you train biceps or triceps you have to make sure your elbows don't contact pads. The friction there will cause damage which will be experienced as pain. Everything is compounded
by the fact that the growing muscle is becoming much stronger. When really heavy weights are lifted they are also dangerous. One way to reduce the risk of injury is to both warm up longer and to do more reps.
If you keep the reps over 10 and aim at somewhere around 15 that might be all round safer and more effective. After the 3rd heavy set what happens is that you can't do as many reps. If you start with 15 reps you
might decrease to about 7 to 10 by the 5th set. When the reps drop off significantly this might be the signal that hypertrophy will occur.

Which bring up another factor in hypertrophy. Larry Scott found that if he could pump his arms larger than ever then they would be bigger the next day. That means you should always aim at getting a bigger pump.
Doing more reps is one way to increase the blood flow in the muscle. Occlusion might contribute to hypertrophy as well. Which is partly why pumping works.

Let us now mention waste products while training and beyond. Larry would train to an extremely painful lactic acid state over and over. No pain, no gain is the message here. Again, just about everyone knew about
this saying but the reality is few ever persist with this kind of training. It takes a certain extreme motivation and even craziness to persist with extremely painful training.

The other pain from damage and waste products is the Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness that occasionally appears after doing something new or extraordinary. That soreness can persist for days after say training calves really hard. This phenomenon usually occurs when one is starting resistance training and disappears after a week or two of weight training. We can ask both what is happening in the muscles to cause this pain and
also why that pain happens at all. DOMS seems to be a message to the brain to take it easy and not to repeat what caused the soreness. We all know this and most personal trainers hold back on the sets when initiating anyone to weight training. Do two sets and not more and there shouldn't be too much soreness the following days. This is common sense re broscience.

Now consider this thought experiment. What would happen to a muscle if the stimulus was such that after each and every workout significant DOMS resulted and persisted for a few days? Would the muscle grow rapidly?
It is my conjecture that they would, in fact, keep growing rapidly. There would be an increase in strength as well and this increase would be substantial.

That is all I want to discuss at the moment. Intelligent people should be able to distill what to do from these considerations. Hypertrophy is not only possible but inevitable if these principles are applied correctly.
Sometimes knowledge isn't sufficient. What is also a requirement is correct application of those principles. Unless sufficient mechanical tension of adequate intensity is applied for the right amount of time then rapid hypertrophy won't and can't occur. This is where some might require an instructor to guide the process. Some people literally can't get results even when guided which is surprising but a reality. I suspect that DJ is one of these people. If you watch his form when doing dips on that Technogym  machine then it is clear he is devoid of sense and ability to train properly.

One point not mentioned is that occasional lay offs might help hypertrophy.

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2017, 07:25:11 PM »
Too Much Wording, No Evidence...

Pics to prove it or It's Horseshit, Bottom Line!!... ;D

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2017, 07:33:40 PM »

SF1900

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2017, 07:35:54 PM »
--Vince Basile picked his own judges, thus rigging the contest.
--Vince Basile has zero evidence to support his hypothesis theory.
--Vince Basile's bicep supination machine was never "picked" up by any major gyms. He is the only one that uses it.
--Vince Basile is very jealous of Arnold's success.
--Vince Basile has never tried to publish his hypertrophy in a reputable journal.
--Vince Basile's hypertrophy hypothesis has never been used by an reputable scientists or personal trainers.
--Vince Basile's hypertrophy hypothesis has never been taken seriously outside of Mr. Basile's own mind.
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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2017, 07:49:40 PM »
--Vince Basile picked his own judges, thus rigging the contest.
--Vince Basile has zero evidence to support his hypothesis theory.
--Vince Basile's bicep supination machine was never "picked" up by any major gyms. He is the only one that uses it.
--Vince Basile is very jealous of Arnold's success.
--Vince Basile has never tried to publish his hypertrophy in a reputable journal.
--Vince Basile's hypertrophy hypothesis has never been used by an reputable scientists or personal trainers.
--Vince Basile's hypertrophy hypothesis has never been taken seriously outside of Mr. Basile's own mind.

What a total dork you are. Hope this helps.

werewolf operative

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2017, 07:55:30 PM »
What I have learned since 1968 lifting weights is that muscular growth happens quite slowly most of the time. You usually cannot see the growth happening except over months.

Second point is that there is a relationship between muscular size and strength. If you can bench 225 for 10 reps and have X size arms then if you can bench 275 for 10 reps your arms will be X + 1" or so.

Third point is there are few guys who build huge arms. How come? Well, it could be several things and maybe more than one factor combining to make a difference.
In any population some people are taller, smarter, or whatever we want to measure. Thus, some males will have larger muscles. This is a statistical phenomenon.
One reason for having few huge guys is that perhaps the effort required goes up exponentially. It might take twice or three times the effort to go from 17 inch arms to 19 inch arms.
Since most guys won't invest that much effort or are incapable of doing so, that would explain why there are not many guys with huge arms.
I deduce from these considerations that muscles are reluctant to hypertrophy to the huge state. That means you have to train in a fashion that gives the muscles a reason or need to get bigger.
If this is so then you have to do something extraordinary to keep a muscle growing....it certainly won't grow unless the stimulus is there. I conclude that when I train I have to go to failure
on most sets after warming up. Huge muscles are capable of repeating heavy efforts many times after a short rest. That means I have to do many sets with a stimulating resistance. What I do
is keep the weight the same but rest a bit longer between sets. Of course there are many 'equivalent' protocols that might work as well. You accumulate a few seconds from each set to failure and these add up if
enough sets to failure are done. Perhaps 1 to 2 minutes of extreme intensity must be accumulated from many sets taken to failure. This could be 10 to 20 total sets for biceps and triceps.

Experience has shown me that some exercises are more effective than others re hypertrophy. So this can make a huge difference. You have to find out by trial and error or learn from guys who have
this information. In my case I modified or invented equipment that is more effective for arm training.

How about frequency? When is the ideal time to retrain the growing muscle? This has not been established by exercise science. If we look at when protein synthesis slows or stops then perhaps training
every 2nd or 3rd day is optimal. Mike Mentzer insisted that many trainees required longer intervals to cause more hypertrophy. It is controversial whether a muscle needs to recover before another workout.
Anecdotal information suggests that muscles can still grow even if not fully recovered. There is the issue of repeated bout effect that has to be overcome. Training while still a little sore might overcome that RBE.

Another factor here is safety. The most effective exercises and protocols might not be the safest. I found out through personal experience that it is easy to damage the sheath that goes over the elbow joint.
What this means is that when you train biceps or triceps you have to make sure your elbows don't contact pads. The friction there will cause damage which will be experienced as pain. Everything is compounded
by the fact that the growing muscle is becoming much stronger. When really heavy weights are lifted they are also dangerous. One way to reduce the risk of injury is to both warm up longer and to do more reps.
If you keep the reps over 10 and aim at somewhere around 15 that might be all round safer and more effective. After the 3rd heavy set what happens is that you can't do as many reps. If you start with 15 reps you
might decrease to about 7 to 10 by the 5th set. When the reps drop off significantly this might be the signal that hypertrophy will occur.

Which bring up another factor in hypertrophy. Larry Scott found that if he could pump his arms larger than ever then they would be bigger the next day. That means you should always aim at getting a bigger pump.
Doing more reps is one way to increase the blood flow in the muscle. Occlusion might contribute to hypertrophy as well. Which is partly why pumping works.

Let us now mention waste products while training and beyond. Larry would train to an extremely painful lactic acid state over and over. No pain, no gain is the message here. Again, just about everyone knew about
this saying but the reality is few ever persist with this kind of training. It takes a certain extreme motivation and even craziness to persist with extremely painful training.

The other pain from damage and waste products is the Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness that occasionally appears after doing something new or extraordinary. That soreness can persist for days after say training calves really hard. This phenomenon usually occurs when one is starting resistance training and disappears after a week or two of weight training. We can ask both what is happening in the muscles to cause this pain and
also why that pain happens at all. DOMS seems to be a message to the brain to take it easy and not to repeat what caused the soreness. We all know this and most personal trainers hold back on the sets when initiating anyone to weight training. Do two sets and not more and there shouldn't be too much soreness the following days. This is common sense re broscience.

Now consider this thought experiment. What would happen to a muscle if the stimulus was such that after each and every workout significant DOMS resulted and persisted for a few days? Would the muscle grow rapidly?
It is my conjecture that they would, in fact, keep growing rapidly. There would be an increase in strength as well and this increase would be substantial.

That is all I want to discuss at the moment. Intelligent people should be able to distill what to do from these considerations. Hypertrophy is not only possible but inevitable if these principles are applied correctly.
Sometimes knowledge isn't sufficient. What is also a requirement is correct application of those principles. Unless sufficient mechanical tension of adequate intensity is applied for the right amount of time then rapid hypertrophy won't and can't occur. This is where some might require an instructor to guide the process. Some people literally can't get results even when guided which is surprising but a reality. I suspect that DJ is one of these people. If you watch his form when doing dips on that Technogym  machine then it is clear he is devoid of sense and ability to train properly.

One point not mentioned is that occasional lay offs might help hypertrophy.


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1-807-355-7282.


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SF1900

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2017, 08:07:39 PM »
What a total dork you are. Hope this helps.

Yet, you cannot refute any of my statements because you know they are true.
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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 08:28:44 PM »
Today my arms measure 18 inches cold. Very pleased with my progress. I also proved that broscience is mistaken and that hypertrophy can occur in old age. Not that I consider myself old.

I can tell you the recent workouts were brutal. Heavy weights used and training to failure on all sets after a warmup. Two exercises supersetted. Biceps-supinator machine for biceps and a modified Nautilus triceps machine for triceps. Frequency was extended to maybe every 4th or 5th day because of tenderness in the elbows or other worries....like a sore shoulder obtained from lifting something out behind me in my vehicle.

I want to make a separate thread and not post in the sorry DJ thread about my achievement. No photo today. I am aiming for 18 1/2 inches by the New Year. Even 18 1/4 will be satisfactory because I never had arms over 17 3/4 when I was competing. That was off season then and something like 17 1/4 on contest day. Today I am over 230 pounds so am carrying a bit too much safety fat. I don't see other men my age looking solid like I do.

My strength has increased heaps in the last 3 months. I am using more on both machines than in the past. My protocol is warming up with a light resistance then adding a plate for following sets. As strength goes up so do the number of sets. Over 3 months my total sets have increased by 5 sets. I also do 5 sets on the maximum resistance. I rest long enough to do more than 10 reps.

Building more muscle is very satisfying because so many people scoff at the idea that hypertrophy is possible over 70. It is not only possible but increases beyond previous maximums are also possible.


Incredible peak, shape and complete tricep. Totally symmetrical with the rest of your body. If you shaved your arm I'm sure you'd look just like Albert Beccles.....or Louis Cyr ::)

che

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2017, 08:38:30 PM »
Today my arms measure 18 inches cold. Very pleased with my progress. I also proved that broscience is mistaken and that hypertrophy can occur in old age. Not that I consider myself old.

I can tell you the recent workouts were brutal. Heavy weights used and training to failure on all sets after a warmup. Two exercises supersetted. Biceps-supinator machine for biceps and a modified Nautilus triceps machine for triceps. Frequency was extended to maybe every 4th or 5th day because of tenderness in the elbows or other worries....like a sore shoulder obtained from lifting something out behind me in my vehicle.

I want to make a separate thread and not post in the sorry DJ thread about my achievement. No photo today. I am aiming for 18 1/2 inches by the New Year. Even 18 1/4 will be satisfactory because I never had arms over 17 3/4 when I was competing. That was off season then and something like 17 1/4 on contest day. Today I am over 230 pounds so am carrying a bit too much safety fat. I don't see other men my age looking solid like I do.

My strength has increased heaps in the last 3 months. I am using more on both machines than in the past. My protocol is warming up with a light resistance then adding a plate for following sets. As strength goes up so do the number of sets. Over 3 months my total sets have increased by 5 sets. I also do 5 sets on the maximum resistance. I rest long enough to do more than 10 reps.

Building more muscle is very satisfying because so many people scoff at the idea that hypertrophy is possible over 70. It is not only possible but increases beyond previous maximums are also possible.


Looking good Vince ,are you natural ?

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2017, 09:39:37 PM »
Not bad at all for 75. He is right, how many 75 year olds look solid? Heck some are not alive anymore at that age! Are you on a little trt? Or avoiding it because of prostrate cancer risks?

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2017, 10:21:35 PM »
Keep it going Vince
75yrs Young & going strong.

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2017, 12:07:11 AM »
--Vince Basile picked his own judges, thus rigging the contest.
--Vince Basile has zero evidence to support his hypothesis theory.
--Vince Basile's bicep supination machine was never "picked" up by any major gyms. He is the only one that uses it.
--Vince Basile is very jealous of Arnold's success.
--Vince Basile has never tried to publish his hypertrophy in a reputable journal.
--Vince Basile's hypertrophy hypothesis has never been used by an reputable scientists or personal trainers.
--Vince Basile's hypertrophy hypothesis has never been taken seriously outside of Mr. Basile's own mind.



100% correct  :)


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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2017, 12:12:51 AM »
Yet, you cannot refute any of my statements because you know they are true.


Saturday night in Sydney & time for Vincenzo to eliminate 2-3 bottles of cheap Vino rosso   ::) :P

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2017, 12:14:39 AM »
Holy fuck that's a lot of words  :o

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2017, 12:17:52 AM »
What a total dork you are. Hope this helps.


Vince B should be banned 4 stalking Mr.SF1900  >:(

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2017, 12:35:13 AM »

Powerlift66

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2017, 12:48:29 AM »
For a guy at age 75, still into lifting, that is awesome. I know you get some grief on here Vince, but a life-long Iron-Gamer is OK in my book.
And my book happens to be called "Life-Long Iron Gamer's"  :P

Anyways, keep it going, I think it keeps people mobile as they age.
Do you do any cardio, like daily walks at least?

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2017, 12:59:43 AM »
According to AJ and dyke mentzer muscle growth happens in spurts over night

If you take your arm and remove the fat and extra cellular water it measures maybe 14 inches FACT

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2017, 04:02:45 AM »
What a total dork you are. Hope this helps.

Problem with this is very simple: You can take a donkey to the water, but you cannot force it to drink.. You see, these brats are morons who can hardly read, so if you write longer than four word sentences, these morons get puzzled and they lose control of their anus and shit all over themselves. 


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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2017, 04:57:40 AM »
Bigger and more muscular arms than Shizzo

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2017, 05:14:42 AM »
18" huh? 

Vince B

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2017, 05:24:23 AM »
I don't use any drugs, pills or injections. All natural for the last 40 years.

I don't drink wine or any other alcohol except on rare social occasions.

DJ is pissing his pants when he sees my achievement.

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Re: 18 inch arms at 75 years old!
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2017, 05:27:01 AM »
I don't use any drugs, pills or injections. All natural for the last 40 years.

I don't drink wine or any other alcohol except on rare social occasions.

DJ is pissing his pants when he sees my achievement.



:D

You got a full inch on these 2 fellas