Author Topic: ND and HULKSTER star in BROKENRECORD MOUNTAIN, Part MCXV  (Read 20543 times)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2006, 01:32:43 PM »
Yeah ND, you are right! Ronnie is superior also for number of years in competition: 15-8!
MONSTER LONGEVITY!



Yes Ronnie has had a long career and for the most part he has stayed injury free , and I just recalulated the numbers Ronnie entered 61 Pro contests and won 26 of them givining him an even lower average of 42% , to Dorians 88% , now you guys can say that means nothing , but what it does mean that Dorian almost won every Pro show he has entered , Ronnie entered almost 4 times many contests as Dorian ( 61 to 17 ) now if you want to compare Dorians 8 years as a Pro to Ronnies first 8 years , Dorian won 15 contests and Ronnie's 11 , so he has him beat at the same ammount of time , now if you want to compare Ronnies first 17 contests to Dorians 17 , Dorian has 15 wins and Ronnie has just 1 win , now what all of this basically means is Dorian was a winning machine , he was almost unbeatable , he never finished lower than 2nd in a Pro contest , it means that if he didn't drive himself into the ground he would have kept winning , it means he was one of the most dominant Pros ever to grace the IFBB , pretty impressive !!

62

Hulkster

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2006, 01:43:12 PM »
Quote
but what it does mean that Dorian almost won every Pro show he has entered ,

it means he was overrated.
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Hulkster

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2006, 01:48:43 PM »
See this is where your lack of knowlege about bodybuilding shines through , this statement solidifies your bias

Lets see out of his 8 Olympia wins just 2 have been with a perfect score ( Dorian all 6 ) , 4 have been close calls ( 4 points or less ) and the rest were a small lead , his first Mr Olympia he was dead last ( Dorian 2nd )  , over the course of Ronnie's career he has been beaten by  Mauro Sarni , Ray McNeil , Milos Sarcev , Jim Quinn , David Dearth ,Flex Wheeler , Vince Taylor , Nasser El Sonbaty , Andreas Munzer ,
Pavol Jablonicky , Shawn Ray , Paul Dillett , Porter Cottrell , Chris
Cormier , Charles Clairmonte , Sonny Schmidt , Alq Gurley , Aaron
Baker , Thierry Pastel , Dorian Yates , Jean Pierre Fux , Michael
Francois , Gunter Schlierkamp , Kevin Levrone ( Dorian by just 2 , Momo & Haney ) Ronnie's win percentage is just 57% ( Dorian 88% ) lost a Pro contest while a Mr Olympia , has placed as low as dead last in a contest ( Dorian never finshed lower than 2nd ) faced decent opposition ( Yates among the best )  and now in all honesty who is overated?  ;)

you don't seem to understand that for the most part, scoring means nothing in the sense that you can't compared numerical values of different contests with different judges and use them as a basis for comparison.

As I have stated many times, if you looks at many olympia score sheets, the first three placings were given (5, 10 and 15) respectively in each round.

Clearly, these are not subjective scores, they are "normalized" scores with the judges saying "okay, he's the best, give him 5, he is second best give him 10 etc).

But they do NOT do this with every contest.

Therefore it is totally wrong to compare actual score values between different contests.

this isn't difficult if you think about it.

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Tigerman

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2006, 01:49:35 PM »
Yes Ronnie has had a long career and for the most part he has stayed injury free , and I just recalulated the numbers Ronnie entered 61 Pro contests and won 26 of them givining him an even lower average of 42% , to Dorians 88% , now you guys can say that means nothing , but what it does mean that Dorian almost won every Pro show he has entered , Ronnie entered almost 4 times many contests as Dorian ( 61 to 17 ) now if you want to compare Dorians 8 years as a Pro to Ronnies first 8 years , Dorian won 15 contests and Ronnie's 11 , so he has him beat at the same ammount of time , now if you want to compare Ronnies first 17 contests to Dorians 17 , Dorian has 15 wins and Ronnie has just 1 win , now what all of this basically means is Dorian was a winning machine , he was almost unbeatable , he never finished lower than 2nd in a Pro contest , it means that if he didn't drive himself into the ground he would have kept winning , it means he was one of the most dominant Pros ever to grace the IFBB , pretty impressive !!

62

Look, I'm not arguing that Dorian's career was not impressive... But do you think that becoming Mr.O. at a younger competitive age it makes him superior to Ronnie?
Actually one can say that he reached the top too fast, and as a consequence he suffered of various injuries, and ruined his physique in a matter of years. Dorian stayed unbeaten for six years, Ronnie is (ok, except GNC 2002) unbeaten for 8 years and counting.
Remember that during his reign Ronnie competed many times through the entire year. I think he's the only athlete so far, to be Mr.O and Arnold Classic Champion in the same year (2001).  
Ronnie deserves our admiration for his perseverance, he never gave up. Dorian's comet decayed fast because of its same speed.

Bones

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2006, 01:51:35 PM »
That ass is so big it looks like it was photo shopped
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2006, 01:56:53 PM »
Look, I'm not arguing that Dorian's career was not impressive... But do you think that becoming Mr.O. at a younger competitive age it makes him superior to Ronnie?
Actually one can say that he reached the top too fast, and as a consequence he suffered of various injuries, and ruined his physique in a matter of years. Dorian stayed unbeaten for six years, Ronnie is (ok, except GNC 2002) unbeaten for 8 years and counting.
Remember that during his reign Ronnie competed many times through the entire year. I think he's the only athlete so far, to be Mr.O and Arnold Classic Champion in the same year (2001).  
Ronnie deserves our admiration for his perseverance, he never gave up. Dorian's comet decayed fast because of its same speed.

Ronnie has had a great career 26 wins and 8 of those Olympias and a Arnold classic , no one can take that from him , but there is this myth that Ronnie is unstopable and unbeatable and I was mearly quoting those figures in response to Hulkster calling Yates overated when he was one of the most dominate IFBB Pros ever .

Hulkster

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2006, 02:00:21 PM »
Quote
I was mearly quoting those figures in response to Hulkster calling Yates overated when he was one of the most dominate IFBB Pros ever .
hence the reason why he was overrated!


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Al-Gebra

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #57 on: April 12, 2006, 02:04:32 PM »
Ronnie "i have the hindquarters of a draft horse" coleman's ass beats the shit out of Dorian's every day of the week and twice on sundays.

MB

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #58 on: April 12, 2006, 02:15:43 PM »
Quote
As I have stated many times, if you looks at many olympia score sheets, the first three placings were given (5, 10 and 15) respectively in each round.

Clearly, these are not subjective scores, they are "normalized" scores with the judges saying "okay, he's the best, give him 5, he is second best give him 10 etc).

But they do NOT do this with every contest.

Contests today are scored the same way they were when Dorian was competing.  Each competitor is scored 1,2,3,4....etc. for each round.  Add up these scores from the 5 judges, and that's the total for the round.  So, if a competitor gets a 5 for the round, that means he received straight firsts.  A 10 might indicate straight 2nds, or it could be another combination that equals 10 such as three 2nds, one 1st, and one 3rd.  It has nothing to do with normalization. 

LuciusFox

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #59 on: April 12, 2006, 02:19:50 PM »
Yes Ronnie has had a long career and for the most part he has stayed injury free , and I just recalulated the numbers Ronnie entered 61 Pro contests and won 26 of them givining him an even lower average of 42% , to Dorians 88% , now you guys can say that means nothing , but what it does mean that Dorian almost won every Pro show he has entered , Ronnie entered almost 4 times many contests as Dorian ( 61 to 17 ) now if you want to compare Dorians 8 years as a Pro to Ronnies first 8 years , Dorian won 15 contests and Ronnie's 11 , so he has him beat at the same ammount of time , now if you want to compare Ronnies first 17 contests to Dorians 17 , Dorian has 15 wins and Ronnie has just 1 win , now what all of this basically means is Dorian was a winning machine , he was almost unbeatable , he never finished lower than 2nd in a Pro contest , it means that if he didn't drive himself into the ground he would have kept winning , it means he was one of the most dominant Pros ever to grace the IFBB , pretty impressive !!

62


 You don't seem to understand that Ronnie has won more Mr. Olympia contests, has been healthier and showed more perserverance. Ronnie is what bodybuilding is about, not some no-armed Brit that tore so many muscles he had to retire.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2006, 02:23:06 PM »
You don't seem to understand that Ronnie has won more Mr. Olympia contests, has been healthier and showed more perserverance. Ronnie is what bodybuilding is about, not some no-armed Brit that tore so many muscles he had to retire.

Meltdown  ;)

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2006, 02:23:44 PM »
hence the reason why he was overrated!




Nuclear Meltdown !!  ;)

LuciusFox

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2006, 02:24:20 PM »
Meltdown  ;)


             Damn it  >:(

Hulkster

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #63 on: April 12, 2006, 02:59:55 PM »
Contests today are scored the same way they were when Dorian was competing.  Each competitor is scored 1,2,3,4....etc. for each round.  Add up these scores from the 5 judges, and that's the total for the round.  So, if a competitor gets a 5 for the round, that means he received straight firsts.  A 10 might indicate straight 2nds, or it could be another combination that equals 10 such as three 2nds, one 1st, and one 3rd.  It has nothing to do with normalization. 

yes it does.

Do you really think that the top 3 guys in a given Mr. O. were given scores like this (1999 for example):

1 Ronnie Coleman USA 5 5 5 5 20 
2 Flex Wheeler USA 10 10 10 10 40 
3 Chris Cormier USA 15 15 15 15 60 

if they were not "normalized" in the judges minds?  The judges were clearly giving scores that reflected the relative placements of the competitors as they saw fit.

The fact that there was a difference of 5 points between EACH competitor in EACH round makes it pretty obvious that the scores reflect nothing more than assigned placements.

Thus, you CANNOT use numerical values directly to compare different contests.

This means that saying that so and so won by 4 points in 1998 but someone else won by 6 points in 1999 is useless because you are not comparing similar scoring methods- sometimes the judges assigned the same value to each competitor with the exact same difference between different competitors and sometimes they did NOT.

eg. here is another Mr. Olympia (2002)

1 Ronnie Coleman USA 5 5 11 8 29 
2 Kevin Levrone USA 15 11 5 7 38 
3 Chris Cormier USA 10 14 18 17 59 

notice the difference -


so, its easy to see whynumbers themselves mean nothing.

You can use PLACEMENTS in given round to argue a point, but you CANNOT use NUMERICAL VALUES to argue a point because the system of assigning the values (as I have shown above) differs from contest to contest.








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Hulkster

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Re: ND and HULKSTER star in BROKENRECORD MOUNTAIN, Part MCXV
« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2006, 03:14:59 PM »
this may be broken record mountain, but at least most people agree with my side of the debate :)

ronnie>>Dorian.
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dearth

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2006, 03:27:31 PM »
the fact that Yates won 6 olympia titles looks like he did shows that he is overrated.


Overrated = getting more than you deserve based on the merits of your physique.

And Yates, with 6 olympia titles, is the best (worst?) example of being overrated in bodybuilding.

actually, the fact that Coleman won anything past 98 & 99 clearly prooves what a joke the mr olympia contest has become.

the man with the biggest belly wins hands down! what excellent judging criteria!

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2006, 03:30:43 PM »
actually, the fact that Coleman won anything past 98 & 99 clearly prooves what a joke the mr olympia contest has become.

the man with the biggest belly wins hands down! what excellent judging criteria!

Amen to that !! some one who gets it , 98/99 Ronnie looked fantastic post 99 all downhill !!

Hulkster

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2006, 03:35:49 PM »
actually, the fact that Coleman won anything past 98 & 99 clearly prooves what a joke the mr olympia contest has become.

the man with the biggest belly wins hands down! what excellent judging criteria!




ah..no. ronnie may have a gut, but he has been a deserving winner due to declining competition.   Just because he doesn't look like 1999 anymore does not in itself mean he should loose.

He is not competing against his 1999 self - this is something that guys like ND can't seem to grasp..
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Palpatine Q

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Re: ND and HULKSTER star in BROKENRECORD MOUNTAIN, Part MCXV
« Reply #68 on: April 12, 2006, 03:59:44 PM »
Ronnie at his best beats Dorian at his best IN COMPETITION. Those B/W shots of Dorian look great but they weren't onstage therefore they are inadmissable.

LuciusFox

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #69 on: April 12, 2006, 04:03:02 PM »
actually, the fact that Coleman won anything past 98 & 99 clearly prooves what a joke the mr olympia contest has become.

the man with the biggest belly wins hands down! what excellent judging criteria!

   Meltdown.

dearth

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #70 on: April 12, 2006, 04:04:29 PM »

  Just because he doesn't look like 1999 anymore does not in itself mean he should loose.


You are right. He should lose because he looks like 10 lbs of shit in a 5lb bag.
you can post your favorite "good" pictures of Coleman all day long,
but his disgusting 40" waist does not meet bodybuilding criteria for victory.

dearth

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2006, 04:05:31 PM »
   Meltdown.

Meltdown is bigger than you.

LuciusFox

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Re: Ronnie asks if tights make his ass look "big"
« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2006, 04:06:42 PM »
You are right. He should lose because he looks like 10 lbs of shit in a 5lb bag.
you can post your favorite "good" pictures of Coleman all day long,
but his disgusting 40" waist does not meet bodybuilding criteria for victory.

 Meltdown #2

Hulkster

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Re: ND and HULKSTER star in BROKENRECORD MOUNTAIN, Part MCXV
« Reply #73 on: April 12, 2006, 04:16:30 PM »

what 40 inch waist? here in 2005 his quads practically looked larger than his waist.

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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: ND and HULKSTER star in BROKENRECORD MOUNTAIN, Part MCXV
« Reply #74 on: April 12, 2006, 04:58:47 PM »

what 40 inch waist? here in 2005 his quads practically looked larger than his waist.



2005 his waist is wide and his gut sticks out , you can't deny this , it was better than 03/04 but it still sucks and shouldn't be on the best bodybuilder in the world , period , they should have stopped this nonsense with Yates , period !!

This is the midsection of a Mr Olympia !!