Author Topic: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple  (Read 7740 times)

mazrim

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #100 on: June 08, 2018, 02:24:24 PM »
Thanks for joining the discussion. I'll be happy to address your contention.

I have listed out numerous scriptures, quoting Jesus word for word. Anyone will any intellectual integrity would have to conclude what I stated is correct. Ok, you agree you are committing adultery. Your position is you are just committing adultery on the day you are married? But if you ask forgiveness, then it wipes out every day after that as adultery? Yet a person is homosexual, asks forgiveness for any sins, and they are somehow to be held to a higher standard than the heterosexual. It's a ludicrous argument not supported in scripture. They are essentially committing adultery every time they have sex unless you can supply a mulligan scripture. But be careful, any loophole you produce will likely apply to homosexuals. My point which I have clearly set out for you is the bakery, if they are not going to bake a cake for homosexuals due to their religion, should not bake a cake for anyone who is divorced and remarried unless they are offered proof it was for adultery. That's consistent, but christians tend to be a little hypocritical about sins they are committing.  

You really need verses from the Bible on whether a sin that is repented for causes you to be damned to eternal Hell? No, you don't. You are simply deflecting/being a troll. If you really do then you need to read the Bible a bit more and not contend that you know so much about it. You ignored answering this in your reply as to how you reconcile your belief with what Scripture says on sin,forgiveness, etc. I have reconciled my belief and it is a much more logical conclusion.

It is very simple to see that your BELIEF as to what those verses mean/conclusion you have made is completely contradictory to the rest of Scripture therefore what you believe it to be saying is wrong when taken into context (as Dos Equis pointed out).

Who is saying that a homosexual is damned to Hell if they repent from their sins/turn from their ways? That argument is yours. Not mine. If they continue unrepentantly in their ways then of course they are most likely not a Christian (just as someone who continues to murder unrepentantly, commit adultery unrepentantly, etc.) and will not be going to Heaven.

Deuteronomy 24:1-4 is just one of your "mulligan"s, btw. The second marriage is as binding as the first. In order to avoid committing adultery again they must remain faithful in their new marriage after repentance.

Can't believe that that murdering/adulterous David went to Hell. No idea why he is "a man after God's own heart" knowing this enlightening fact that you have discovered which belies every Biblical scholar.

You are claiming that a person must commit another sin (divorce) in order to be cleansed from the first sin (divorce/adultery). God does not work that way and this is supported no where. That is like claiming that a murderer must commit another murder (or suicide) to be forgiven from the first. Ludicrous thought pattern.

Not going to try that hard to convince you as if you truly wanted the answers they are right there for you to see/research. Also, you don't seem to be the type to really want to see beyond what you have convinced yourself of judging by your forum name.Your heart is hard.



Your last point is more thought provoking/what you should stick with in this argument(why are they baking cakes for something else that is clearly a sin according to the Bible) but my contention is with your conclusion on adultery and what I had replied to originally I believe.



Primemuscle

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #101 on: June 08, 2018, 02:52:27 PM »
My daughter would give me flak for stating this, but proprietors should retain the right to choose their clientèle. When they do, they may lose business, thus hurting their bottom line. That's their choice though. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #102 on: June 08, 2018, 03:16:29 PM »

No he’s being honest.
I would say we all hate someone or some people - be they white / black / queers / Peadophile’s / muslims etc

Are you saying you honestly don’t hate anyone ?

The law can never force anyone to like (or not hate) anyone else, but it can control people's behavior. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #103 on: June 08, 2018, 03:20:20 PM »
You really need verses from the Bible on whether a sin that is repented for causes you to be damned to eternal Hell? No, you don't. You are simply deflecting/being a troll. If you really do then you need to read the Bible a bit more and not contend that you know so much about it. You ignored answering this in your reply as to how you reconcile your belief with what Scripture says on sin,forgiveness, etc. I have reconciled my belief and it is a much more logical conclusion.

It is very simple to see that your BELIEF as to what those verses mean/conclusion you have made is completely contradictory to the rest of Scripture therefore what you believe it to be saying is wrong when taken into context (as Dos Equis pointed out).

Who is saying that a homosexual is damned to Hell if they repent from their sins/turn from their ways? That argument is yours. Not mine. If they continue unrepentantly in their ways then of course they are most likely not a Christian (just as someone who continues to murder unrepentantly, commit adultery unrepentantly, etc.) and will not be going to Heaven.

Deuteronomy 24:1-4 is just one of your "mulligan"s, btw. The second marriage is as binding as the first. In order to avoid committing adultery again they must remain faithful in their new marriage after repentance.

Can't believe that that murdering/adulterous David went to Hell. No idea why he is "a man after God's own heart" knowing this enlightening fact that you have discovered which belies every Biblical scholar.

You are claiming that a person must commit another sin (divorce) in order to be cleansed from the first sin (divorce/adultery). God does not work that way and this is supported no where. That is like claiming that a murderer must commit another murder (or suicide) to be forgiven from the first. Ludicrous thought pattern.

Not going to try that hard to convince you as if you truly wanted the answers they are right there for you to see/research. Also, you don't seem to be the type to really want to see beyond what you have convinced yourself of judging by your forum name.Your heart is hard.



Your last point is more thought provoking/what you should stick with in this argument(why are they baking cakes for something else that is clearly a sin according to the Bible) but my contention is with your conclusion on adultery and what I had replied to originally I believe.




Well said.

Agnostic007

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #104 on: June 08, 2018, 03:31:42 PM »

No he’s being honest.
I would say we all hate someone or some people - be they white / black / queers / Peadophile’s / muslims etc

Are you saying you honestly don’t hate anyone ?

No, not saying that at all. I'm aware though that there are protected classes of people out there that if I am a business owner I would have to deal with or risk getting sued.

Agnostic007

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #105 on: June 08, 2018, 03:34:54 PM »
You really need verses from the Bible on whether a sin that is repented for causes you to be damned to eternal Hell? No, you don't. You are simply deflecting/being a troll. If you really do then you need to read the Bible a bit more and not contend that you know so much about it. You ignored answering this in your reply as to how you reconcile your belief with what Scripture says on sin,forgiveness, etc. I have reconciled my belief and it is a much more logical conclusion.

It is very simple to see that your BELIEF as to what those verses mean/conclusion you have made is completely contradictory to the rest of Scripture therefore what you believe it to be saying is wrong when taken into context (as Dos Equis pointed out).

Who is saying that a homosexual is damned to Hell if they repent from their sins/turn from their ways? That argument is yours. Not mine. If they continue unrepentantly in their ways then of course they are most likely not a Christian (just as someone who continues to murder unrepentantly, commit adultery unrepentantly, etc.) and will not be going to Heaven.

Deuteronomy 24:1-4 is just one of your "mulligan"s, btw. The second marriage is as binding as the first. In order to avoid committing adultery again they must remain faithful in their new marriage after repentance.

Can't believe that that murdering/adulterous David went to Hell. No idea why he is "a man after God's own heart" knowing this enlightening fact that you have discovered which belies every Biblical scholar.

You are claiming that a person must commit another sin (divorce) in order to be cleansed from the first sin (divorce/adultery). God does not work that way and this is supported no where. That is like claiming that a murderer must commit another murder (or suicide) to be forgiven from the first. Ludicrous thought pattern.

Not going to try that hard to convince you as if you truly wanted the answers they are right there for you to see/research. Also, you don't seem to be the type to really want to see beyond what you have convinced yourself of judging by your forum name.Your heart is hard.



Your last point is more thought provoking/what you should stick with in this argument(why are they baking cakes for something else that is clearly a sin according to the Bible) but my contention is with your conclusion on adultery and what I had replied to originally I believe.




I will refrain from making disparaging remarks about you are your position because it brings nothing positive to the table. I will just say that once again, you are arguing from a position of what you think should be in the bible, or what you think should happen. I have supplied ample scripture (which is the way most people would debate a biblical point) that supports my position. To sum it up, remarrying after divorce for any reason other than adultery is a sin. Homosexuality is a sin. Christians, if they are going to refuse one due to their religion, should be consistent. Otherwise they are being hypocritical

Agnostic007

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #106 on: June 08, 2018, 04:42:24 PM »
If I'm in a service based industry and I decide for any reason not to provide my services, why should I be forced? What about the vendors rights and freedoms?

because we aren't living in the 1800's?

chaos

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #107 on: June 08, 2018, 05:47:17 PM »
because we aren't living in the 1800's?
So vendors have no rights?
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Agnostic007

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #108 on: June 08, 2018, 06:01:16 PM »
So vendors have no rights?

They do. For example, in Texas you can refuse service for no shirt, no shoes..abrasive attitude, etc. You just can't refuse service because of someones race color religion or national origin.

mazrim

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #109 on: June 08, 2018, 06:07:57 PM »
I will refrain from making disparaging remarks about you are your position because it brings nothing positive to the table. I will just say that once again, you are arguing from a position of what you think should be in the bible, or what you think should happen. I have supplied ample scripture (which is the way most people would debate a biblical point) that supports my position. To sum it up, remarrying after divorce for any reason other than adultery is a sin. Homosexuality is a sin. Christians, if they are going to refuse one due to their religion, should be consistent. Otherwise they are being hypocritical
^
In other words: "I will refrain because I have no answers and when Biblical support was provided to prove me wrong on my stated position of perpetual adultery through remarriage and everlasting damnation to those who do it (including David). I am now just going to continue with an argument that wasn't argued against to begin with. My feelings know better and I have rarely opened up the Bible that I have claimed to know so well."

You were claiming that it was perpetual adultery/sin and that they were damned to Hell. You are wrong. You have acknowledged my position is the right one by no longer claiming this it looks like.

And actually, just so others are not swayed by your lies "remarrying after divorce for any other reason other then adultery is a sin." You must have skipped I Cor. 7:14-16 in your pouring over the Scriptures.

Agnostic007

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #110 on: June 08, 2018, 06:35:47 PM »
^
In other words: "I will refrain because I have no answers and when Biblical support was provided to prove me wrong on my stated position of perpetual adultery through remarriage and everlasting damnation to those who do it (including David). I am now just going to continue with an argument that wasn't argued against to begin with. My feelings know better and I have rarely opened up the Bible that I have claimed to know so well."

You were claiming that it was perpetual adultery/sin and that they were damned to Hell. You are wrong. You have acknowledged my position is the right one by no longer claiming this it looks like.

And actually, just so others are not swayed by your lies "remarrying after divorce for any other reason other then adultery is a sin." You must have skipped I Cor. 7:14-16 in your pouring over the Scriptures.

 ;)

answer this question and I will expend time and effort giving your post the time it would deserve

If a baker without asking any questions of their customers refuses to bake a cake for 2 people who are homosexual, and bakes a cake for 2 people on their 5th marriage, are they within the teachings of Christ?   

Yamcha

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #111 on: June 08, 2018, 07:45:13 PM »
;)

answer this question and I will expend time and effort giving your post the time it would deserve

If a baker without asking any questions of their customers refuses to bake a cake for 2 people who are homosexual, and bakes a cake for 2 people on their 5th marriage, are they within the teachings of Christ?   

a

Yamcha

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #112 on: June 08, 2018, 07:51:04 PM »
You really need verses from the Bible on whether a sin that is repented for causes you to be damned to eternal Hell? No, you don't. You are simply deflecting/being a troll. If you really do then you need to read the Bible a bit more and not contend that you know so much about it. You ignored answering this in your reply as to how you reconcile your belief with what Scripture says on sin,forgiveness, etc. I have reconciled my belief and it is a much more logical conclusion.

It is very simple to see that your BELIEF as to what those verses mean/conclusion you have made is completely contradictory to the rest of Scripture therefore what you believe it to be saying is wrong when taken into context (as Dos Equis pointed out).

Who is saying that a homosexual is damned to Hell if they repent from their sins/turn from their ways? That argument is yours. Not mine. If they continue unrepentantly in their ways then of course they are most likely not a Christian (just as someone who continues to murder unrepentantly, commit adultery unrepentantly, etc.) and will not be going to Heaven.

Deuteronomy 24:1-4 is just one of your "mulligan"s, btw. The second marriage is as binding as the first. In order to avoid committing adultery again they must remain faithful in their new marriage after repentance.

Can't believe that that murdering/adulterous David went to Hell. No idea why he is "a man after God's own heart" knowing this enlightening fact that you have discovered which belies every Biblical scholar.

You are claiming that a person must commit another sin (divorce) in order to be cleansed from the first sin (divorce/adultery). God does not work that way and this is supported no where. That is like claiming that a murderer must commit another murder (or suicide) to be forgiven from the first. Ludicrous thought pattern.

Not going to try that hard to convince you as if you truly wanted the answers they are right there for you to see/research. Also, you don't seem to be the type to really want to see beyond what you have convinced yourself of judging by your forum name.Your heart is hard.



Your last point is more thought provoking/what you should stick with in this argument(why are they baking cakes for something else that is clearly a sin according to the Bible) but my contention is with your conclusion on adultery and what I had replied to originally I believe.




Add this verse to your list!  8)
a

Agnostic007

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #113 on: June 08, 2018, 08:00:58 PM »
Add this verse to your list!  8)

you were so close to being put in the "not worth responding to" list, but then.. you go and redeem yourself with this!

Dos Equis

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #114 on: June 08, 2018, 08:49:37 PM »
Add this verse to your list!  8)

LOL!   ;D

James

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #115 on: June 08, 2018, 08:58:14 PM »
Add this verse to your list!  8)


 ;D

Agnostic007

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6 Reps

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #117 on: June 11, 2018, 04:23:34 PM »
Sign in front of a Denver church, located not far from the bakery in this case.

Dos Equis

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #118 on: June 11, 2018, 04:36:21 PM »
Sign in front of a Denver church, located not far from the bakery in this case.

Nah.  He was a carpenter, not a baker.   :)

IroNat

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #119 on: June 20, 2018, 05:42:32 AM »
It wasn't the cake itself it was the penis on the cake that made the baker nauseous.

loco

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #120 on: June 20, 2018, 05:56:05 AM »
Matthew 19:4-5
4“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?

Agnostic007

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #121 on: June 20, 2018, 11:36:12 AM »
Matthew 19:4-5
4“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?

Again.. the argument wasn't that the bible considers homosexuality a sin. But that it also considers divorce and remarrying a sin, and being consistent with your values should be important

loco

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #122 on: June 20, 2018, 11:57:58 AM »
Again.. the argument wasn't that the bible considers homosexuality a sin. But that it also considers divorce and remarrying a sin, and being consistent with your values should be important

Not what this case is about, not what this Supreme court decision is about, and not what this thread is about.

You could start your own thread in the religion board about being consistent with your values.

Agnostic007

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #123 on: June 20, 2018, 12:01:47 PM »
Not what this case is about, not what this Supreme court decision is about, and not what this thread is about.

You could start your own thread in the religion board about being consistent with your values.

Fair enough. I thought the conversation evolved in this direction. I'll leave it alone

SOMEPARTS

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Re: Supreme Court backs Christian baker who spurned gay couple
« Reply #124 on: June 20, 2018, 12:53:46 PM »
;)

answer this question and I will expend time and effort giving your post the time it would deserve

If a baker without asking any questions of their customers refuses to bake a cake for 2 people who are homosexual, and bakes a cake for 2 people on their 5th marriage, are they within the teachings of Christ?   



It's about freewill as well. I know they said religion but maybe they were just disgusted or maybe they saw that they were being put in a trap due to their beliefs or reputation(as was the case).

The stance on this case could very well identify if you are a statist/socialist or not...