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Author Topic: counting reps is weird  (Read 3443 times)
DooM_
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« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2018, 11:24:40 PM »

to keep track of your progress . . .
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BEEFYHEAVYWEIGHT
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« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2018, 06:31:56 AM »

How could it be that the right number of reps to do is ever some square number, like 10 or "6-8".

I think people mostly count reps so that they can communicate their workout ideas. Studies also center on reps because it's easier to design tests around them.

I think any experienced "trainee" should probably just trust their instincts instead of doing another rep because they had planned to.

I always find myself thinking "okay I did eight reps, let's go for 10" for seemingly no other reason than "10 is a round number". This seems really absurd...

Thinking about numbers takes your focus away from the exercise, too.
I trained with Bertil Fox in 1990 for 1 afternoon at Better Bodies Gym in Manhattan.  We trained only back together. Everything that Bertil did was 7 REPS only. Didnt matter if it was a light warmup or a super heavy set. Even if he could only eek out 5 reps...he would rest-pause it until he hit 7 reps. I never asked him why as I was just a young fan who had just met him that day in the gym and he asked me if I wanted to train with him. All I remeber him saying was " 7 reps for everything "

Maybe it was OCD ormaybe he just chose a random rep each workout.
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residue
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« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2018, 06:46:09 AM »

How could it be that the right number of reps to do is ever some square number, like 10 or "6-8".

I think people mostly count reps so that they can communicate their workout ideas. Studies also center on reps because it's easier to design tests around them.

I think any experienced "trainee" should probably just trust their instincts instead of doing another rep because they had planned to.

I always find myself thinking "okay I did eight reps, let's go for 10" for seemingly no other reason than "10 is a round number". This seems really absurd...

Thinking about numbers takes your focus away from the exercise, too.

prilepinís chart
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Tapeworm
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« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2018, 06:50:43 AM »

My gains exploded with Fibonacci Supersets.
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Al Doggity
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« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2018, 09:34:17 AM »

Because I suggested resting for a week, first. Maybe you're always tired, even when you think you're "not particularly tired"?
If you read the post more carefully, you'll see that I said I hadn't been in the gym for 2-3 weeks.

Quote
So working N hours no matter what is the best way to maximally motivate an employee, and get out of him the most product?

No. The entire point of that analogy is that it doesn't matter if the employee is motivated. In the first two scenarios, a consistent amount of work gets done regardless of how the employee feels. In the the third scenario, the amount of work getting done is fluctuates depending on how the employee feels.

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What dulls your senses more, though, than plans and numbers? Do you wonder how a lack of sense is so common in gyms? Could it be proportional to the craze for workout plans, programming principles, and rep schemes?

That wouldn't be my conclusion. When I see  goofs in the gym, I've never thought it would be helpful for them to have less guidance and instruction. The lack of common sense I most often see in the gym rarely has anything to with sets or reps and almost always has to do with not understanding the basic mechanics of an exercise. 

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TheGrinch
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« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2018, 10:33:53 AM »

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SilverSpoon
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« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2018, 12:05:14 PM »

My gains exploded with Fibonacci Supersets.

Joe Mullen of Nautilus fame believed in training with a repetition goal of 5, 8, 13 or 21.  I'm serious.
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Tapeworm
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« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2018, 07:06:54 PM »

Joe Mullen of Nautilus fame believed in training with a repetition goal of 5, 8, 13 or 21.  I'm serious.

Makes you wonder if these kooks meant it or were just trying to make sales.  The whole HIT contingent were suspect.  "One set per month on our Magic Mystery Muscle Maker Machine." 
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Deadpool
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« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2018, 07:12:21 PM »

My gains exploded with Fibonacci Supersets.



* fibb.jpg (18.44 KB, 318x241 - viewed 148 times.)
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cephissus
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« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2018, 07:14:17 PM »

In the first two scenarios, a consistent amount of work gets done regardless of how the employee feels.

How often can you come close to "proving" this? It may be enough when we're talking about "burgers produced" because people don't care to look that closely at burgers... But what about when you move up the chain a little and you talk about "lines of code" or "papers published" and finally "all the way" up to "stock price"? At this point, even the most faithful manager must feel some nausea at having to daily handle such wild fictions as "hard data".

You can't really take refuge in "hours worked" or "items produced" any more than you can "reps counted". If these things contribute to your success, they do so in a tiny way. We attribute to them much more than we should. If someone is on the wrong course, the numbers rarely set him right.
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Tapeworm
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« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2018, 07:35:40 PM »

Abstraction to the point of confusion.  There's no insight into the world of industry and managerial theory to be gained from your gym reps.

Sometimes you need to be conscientious.  Sometimes you just need to git 'er done.  Pick a place on the continuum transfunctionally appropriate to the task.
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ESFitness
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« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2018, 07:36:47 PM »

I'm well aware of the science behind hypertrophy occurring in the 10 to 15 range however I have always made my best progress training in the 7 to 9 range once I start to go higher then some magic number of 10 or 11 it turns into some sort of cardiovascular workout... That's for me personally. I have clients that make progress in the 15 range and I have clients and make progress in the 8 to 10 range as well
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cephissus
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« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2018, 11:09:44 PM »

Tonight I ran a 5 min mile, completely out of the blue. This was a lifetime goal I was never able to achieve, even with extensive training... 5:23 was the best I ever got.

A few weeks ago I learned how to perceived and stretch my psoas, purely by feel (and luck)... This simple discovery has improved my body a hundred times more than thousands of vain training sessions. I spent years deluding myself chasing pointless goals.
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Grape Ape
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« Reply #63 on: January 03, 2018, 05:57:28 AM »

Tonight I ran a 5 min mile, completely out of the blue. This was a lifetime goal I was never able to achieve, even with extensive training... 5:23 was the best I ever got.

A few weeks ago I learned how to perceived and stretch my psoas, purely by feel (and luck)... This simple discovery has improved my body a hundred times more than thousands of vain training sessions. I spent years deluding myself chasing pointless goals.

Wow, mad prpos for that.
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Y
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« Reply #64 on: January 03, 2018, 09:54:39 AM »

How often can you come close to "proving" this? It may be enough when we're talking about "burgers produced" because people don't care to look that closely at burgers... But what about when you move up the chain a little and you talk about "lines of code" or "papers published" and finally "all the way" up to "stock price"? At this point, even the most faithful manager must feel some nausea at having to daily handle such wild fictions as "hard data".

Burgers produced is the best example. It's simply about the amount of work you get done. I don't think the criteria you'd use to gauge quality of work in those other areas applies to working out. Not to me, not in an obvious way.

Tonight I ran a 5 min mile, completely out of the blue. This was a lifetime goal I was never able to achieve, even with extensive training... 5:23 was the best I ever got.

A few weeks ago I learned how to perceived and stretch my psoas, purely by feel (and luck)... This simple discovery has improved my body a hundred times more than thousands of vain training sessions. I spent years deluding myself chasing pointless goals.

You know, I am really not dogmatic at all when it comes to fitness. Whenever people who don't workout ask me what they should be doing for arms or chest or whatever, I just say the most important thing is to get on a fitness program and stick with it consistently. If you have found something that works for you, great. The problems you've had  counting sets and reps just aren't problems I can relate to. I like gauging my progress accurately week over week. Counting reps enables me to focus on increasing my reps within a single workout. I don't sacrifice other aspects of progress to increase my reps. I like to keep my workouts as close to an hour as possible, so counting reps and sets allows me to get in all that I want to do while staying on that schedule. For me, no problems have arisen from counting. Everything has been advantageous.
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ESFitness
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« Reply #65 on: January 03, 2018, 09:57:38 AM »

Burgers produced is the best example. It's simply about the amount of work you get done. I don't think the criteria you'd use to gauge quality of work in those other areas applies to working out. Not to me, not in an obvious way.

You know, I am really not dogmatic at all when it comes to fitness. Whenever people who don't workout ask me what they should be doing for arms or chest or whatever, I just say the most important thing is to get on a fitness program and stick with it consistently. If you have found something that works for you, great. The problems you've had  counting sets and reps just aren't problems I can relate to. I like gauging my progress accurately week over week. Counting reps enables me to focus on increasing my reps within a single workout. I don't sacrifice other aspects of progress to increase my reps. I like to keep my workouts as close to an hour as possible, so counting reps and sets allows me to get in all that I want to do while staying on that schedule. For me, no problems have arisen from counting. Everything has been advantageous.
[/b]

Who knows.. Had you not been counting, you may have an Olympia title by now.
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Conker
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« Reply #66 on: January 03, 2018, 10:45:32 AM »

Burgers produced is the best example. It's simply about the amount of work you get done. I don't think the criteria you'd use to gauge quality of work in those other areas applies to working out. Not to me, not in an obvious way.

You know, I am really not dogmatic at all when it comes to fitness. Whenever people who don't workout ask me what they should be doing for arms or chest or whatever, I just say the most important thing is to get on a fitness program and stick with it consistently. If you have found something that works for you, great. The problems you've had  counting sets and reps just aren't problems I can relate to. I like gauging my progress accurately week over week. Counting reps enables me to focus on increasing my reps within a single workout. I don't sacrifice other aspects of progress to increase my reps. I like to keep my workouts as close to an hour as possible, so counting reps and sets allows me to get in all that I want to do while staying on that schedule. For me, no problems have arisen from counting. Everything has been advantageous.


as they say in the army (or somewhere) "hard work beats talent , if talent doesn't work hard"
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joeygym65
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« Reply #67 on: January 03, 2018, 12:35:10 PM »

[/b]

Who knows.. Had you not been counting, you may have an Olympia title by now.

hahaha Grin
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cephissus
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« Reply #68 on: January 03, 2018, 09:44:52 PM »

Burgers produced is the best example. It's simply about the amount of work you get done. I don't think the criteria you'd use to gauge quality of work in those other areas applies to working out. Not to me, not in an obvious way.

I'm only pointing out that none of these things are equal. We think its silly to say we can't count burgers only because "nothing important" hinges on their "minute" differences. We're just as comfortable counting them as we are uncomfortable trying to count (e.g. for commoditization) academic papers, on account of how difficult it is to compare the latter.

If two burgers satisfy us the same, we say they're the same without too much scrutiny. Reps and sets are mostly the same way. But when you wake up thirty years later and decide to go to five guys instead of Burger King, or end up in the ER from a heart attack, you start to revalue all those bland whoppers you ate or low fat veggie burgers you skipped.

I look around and see (not only in the gym but everywhere) lots of people chasing after numbers, seemingly in a circle, all in the name of some abstract "progress" or "optimization" which only seems to exist in their imagination. From my perspective, they're only suffering myopia, with "nose to the grindstone" wearing themselves out. And I suffer this way myself, we all do, inasmuch as we think ourselves rooted in the right spot, ready to systematize and build on our foundation.

The way we obsess over workout schemes just seems a particularly notable example of this short sightedness, since no one ever makes progress for long, yet we carefully count the tiniest portions of each workout as if it's a serious matter.

Quote
You know, I am really not dogmatic at all when it comes to fitness. Whenever people who don't workout ask me what they should be doing for arms or chest or whatever, I just say the most important thing is to get on a fitness program and stick with it consistently. If you have found something that works for you, great. The problems you've had  counting sets and reps just aren't problems I can relate to. I like gauging my progress accurately week over week. Counting reps enables me to focus on increasing my reps within a single workout. I don't sacrifice other aspects of progress to increase my reps. I like to keep my workouts as close to an hour as possible, so counting reps and sets allows me to get in all that I want to do while staying on that schedule. For me, no problems have arisen from counting. Everything has been advantageous.

That's good man, it seems our perspectives differ because I've been less successful and questioned our counting scheme a little more, consequently.

Back when I was gaining muscle and strength regularly, I didn't question the fundamentals (as much).
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cephissus
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« Reply #69 on: January 04, 2018, 12:04:24 AM »

Wow, mad prpos for that.

Thanks man. Never thought I'd even try for it again. I just decided to do an interval workout, 6 laps at 6 min mile pace. Was feeling good so I decided to try the last lap at 5 min pace, just to see if I could... felt fine so I went for two... three... "well, I guess today's the day!" Felt like I could have gone another 2 laps after I finished, tbh.
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FREAKgeek
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« Reply #70 on: January 06, 2018, 06:27:29 PM »

I trained with Bertil Fox in 1990 for 1 afternoon at Better Bodies Gym in Manhattan.  We trained only back together. Everything that Bertil did was 7 REPS only. Didnt matter if it was a light warmup or a super heavy set. Even if he could only eek out 5 reps...he would rest-pause it until he hit 7 reps. I never asked him why as I was just a young fan who had just met him that day in the gym and he asked me if I wanted to train with him. All I remeber him saying was " 7 reps for everything "

Maybe it was OCD ormaybe he just chose a random rep each workout.

That's as high as Bertil can count.
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FREAKgeek
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« Reply #71 on: January 06, 2018, 06:29:04 PM »

Tonight I ran a 5 min mile, completely out of the blue. This was a lifetime goal I was never able to achieve, even with extensive training... 5:23 was the best I ever got.

A few weeks ago I learned how to perceived and stretch my psoas, purely by feel (and luck)... This simple discovery has improved my body a hundred times more than thousands of vain training sessions. I spent years deluding myself chasing pointless goals.

timing your runs is weird  Cheesy
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cephissus
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« Reply #72 on: January 06, 2018, 08:13:21 PM »

timing your runs is weird  Cheesy

True story, usually I go out in a run with only my keys and a few cards (credit, id, etc.), Only having decided on the first part of my route.

Actually a week ago I listened to one of these "guided runs" that Nike publishes. Completely weirded me out... My mental state during an ordinary run is so utterly alien to anything that would find solace in the insane babble I was hearing from Kevin Hart and his partner, the "coach."

To think that people find this incessant counting, talking, symbolizing every minuscule chunk of the training session into oblivion is somehow not only helpful, but even necessary...
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