Why are so many pro's religous?????

[Johnny Apollo]

I think this speaks for itself!!!

http://bbsnews.net/drug-deaths.html

Hmmm

[MCWAY]

The laws in the bible often contradict the laws of man.

You can't obey both of them in such a case.

The bible makes it clear that you should obey IT and not the laws of man.

Exodus 20:3 states you should have no other "gods" before the one god. Meaning worship no one and nothing. Obey him and just him.[/qb]

Exactly how does obeying a civil law equate to "worship"? Am I worshippping the god of traffic when I obey the speed limit?

Isaiah 33:22 states God is the "lawgiver".

The bible makes it clear that when the "laws of man" interfere with the laws of God you should obey the "laws of God".


Insinuating that since Anabolic steroids are illegal under man's law they are illegal under "gods law" according to the Bible doesn't make any sense.
That would also mean that if sex before marrage is legal under mans law it's legal under "gods law" according to the bible. Or worshiping other Gods or working on sunday or disrespecting your parents..ect..ect.

Something being legal does NOT automatically require that it be engaged. Prostitution is legal in Nevada (at least, in Vegas). Not participating in such doesn't mean that you are obeying God's law instead of man's laws.

What law in our nation involves mandatory participation, with the doing of such being contrary to God's law?

Working on the Sabbath? Hardly!! Notwithstanding the issue in and of itself, most businesses are closed on Sunday, and the majority of those that are open run reduced hours (i.e. malls, public transportation, some stores, etc).

[MCWAY]

The real question is...if God is so good and righteous and such...why is he always found in jail?

Perhaps, it's because some inmates realize that, had they listened to a few of them commandments, at least the last six of them, they wouldn't have numbers on their backs......or be worried about a fellow inmate wanting to break the 7th commandment with them.

 

[Dos Equis]

You didn't read all of the studies.


I agree that use is perfectly safe in 99% of the cases. But even ABUSE with very high doses are safe in a good majority of the cases in healthy adult males when used correctly.

I've never heard of that study, but it apparently involved 7 people who self administered the drugs outside of the presence of the evaluators.  Not something I'd hang my hat on.  That study does not show what the long term effects of abuse are.  I'd like to know what happens to the typical 50 or 60 year old who abused steroids for 20 years.  We don't have that information.  Athletes who abuse anabolics are walking experiments; Frankensteins.  I wouldn't feel comfortable at all saying the "majority" of abusers can abuse safely.  That's probably an overstatement.  Can't really be proved (except anecdotally maybe).  

[MCWAY]

True. It's AMAZES me how people can claim we outlaw drugs because people would use them and cause our healthcare prices to go up..

Yet they fail to realize that the healthcare rates are going up BECAUSE OF PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WITH OBESITY.

Eating 2lbs of food everyday at Mcdonalds is 100 times worse than smoking a marijuana a few times a week.

No one ever died from marijuana.

TENS OF THOUSANDS die every year in America from obesity related problems.

Gluttony is sinful, also. However, it is legal, or at least, not illegal from a civil perspective.

But, again while gluttony is legal/not illegal, engaging in such is NOT MANDATED by civil law. Therefore, you have no case of obeying God's law vs. obeying man's laws, notwithstanding the fact that many of our civil laws have religious roots.

[Johnny Apollo]

Exactly how does obeying a civil law equate to "worship"? Am I worshippping the god of traffic when I obey the speed limit?

Something being legal does NOT automatically require that it be engaged. Prostitution is legal in Nevada (at least, in Vegas). Not participating in such doesn't mean that you are obeying God's law instead of man's laws.

What law in our nation involves mandatory participation, with the doing of such being contrary to God's law?

Working on the Sabbath? Hardly!! Notwithstanding the issue in and of itself, most businesses are closed on Sunday, and the majority of those that are open run reduced hours (i.e. malls, public transportation, some stores, etc).

Bible laws that go against current laws.

Exodus21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus

20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Deuteronomy

21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;  
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.  
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.  

Romans

1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Bible comands you to kill Rebelous children,Kill people who cheat on their wives,Kill homosexuals..

Such things are illegal to do by mans law but are a sin NOT to do by gods law.

[Johnny Apollo]

I've never heard of that study, but it apparently involved 7 people who self administered the drugs outside of the presence of the evaluators.  Not something I'd hang my hat on.  That study does not show what the long term effects of abuse are.  I'd like to know what happens to the typical 50 or 60 year old who abused steroids for 20 years.  We don't have that information.  Athletes who abuse anabolics are walking experiments; Frankensteins.  I wouldn't feel comfortable at all saying the "majority" of abusers can abuse safely.  That's probably an overstatement.  Can't really be proved (except anecdotally maybe).  

The users reported everything they used to the scientists.

Secondly you can get information about abusers for 20 years from BODYBUILDERS. Only a small fraction of bodybuilders died from steroid related problems in the past 30 years. Out of HUNDREDS of pro-bodybuilders who abuse steroids only a one or two dozen have died from steroid related problems. Which of couse might of been cuased by other things but were simply problems commonly associated with steroids by the MEDIA.

[Johnny Apollo]

Gluttony is sinful, also. However, it is legal, or at least, not illegal from a civil perspective.

But, again while gluttony is legal/not illegal, engaging in such is NOT MANDATED by civil law. Therefore, you have no case of obeying God's law vs. obeying man's laws, notwithstanding the fact that many of our civil laws have religious roots.

That post was just pointing out the hypocrisy of our current laws and how ineffective they really are.

Had nothing to do with the Bible.

[Dos Equis]

The users reported everything they used to the scientists.

Secondly you can get information about abusers for 20 years from BODYBUILDERS. Only a small fraction of bodybuilders died from steroid related problems in the past 30 years. Out of HUNDREDS of pro-bodybuilders who abuse steroids only a one or two dozen have died from steroid related problems. Which of couse might of been cuased by other things but were simply problems commonly associated with steroids by the MEDIA.

Where are you getting that information?  I've heard of many bodybuilders and football players who develop all kinds of complications.  Premature death isn't the only potential problem.  Problems with the liver, kidney, heart, reproductive organs, etc. are all major concerns.  And we don't always know whether steroid abuse contributes to an early death.  For example, was Walter Payton's liver disease steroid related?  His death was attributed to "liver failure," but what role did drugs play in his organ failure?  Same with Reggie White.  He had some kind of heart failure, but I'd be surprised if he didn't abuse anabolics for years.  His death isn't officially steroid related.  There are probably many more illnesses and deaths like this that aren't officially linked to steroids, but that may have developed because of steroid abuse.  We'll never know.  And I guess that's one of my main concerns:  this is all conjecture.  It's like Russian Roulette.     

[PTB]

This thread originally started out with asking why so many pro's are RELIGIOUS.  Was that the intent of the question, or to ask why so many are CHRISTIANS bbers?  There are/were several bb'ers of different faiths out there.  I believe King is a Muslim is he not?   Aren't there Jewish bber's also?  
Yet it seems the criticism is of the Christian bber's, or Christianity itself.

And what REALLY is the problem with whether they are  religious or not?  Is it simply that they proclaim it on stage after a win?  If so, what's wrong with that?  It's HIS opinion of what got him there.  It doesn't have to be yours.  When you win, you could thank anyone, or noone if you want.  

The drugs are an issue no doubt, and they may need to give an account for what they've done, but it's their deal.

I'm a Christian, and weightlifting is often a spiritual experience for me.  My faith teaches me much about pressing on towards the goal, to not be lazy or idle, to work hard, to stretch myself beyond what I think I can do.  Working out helps to put those principles into practice.  Perhaps others think the same thing also.

[ieffinhatecardio]

They need something to believe in, I imagine it's tough when you have to take inhuman amounts of illegal drugs and have schmoes fukk your ass all the time. They need inner strength from something.

[MCWAY]

Bible laws that go against current laws.
 

Exodus21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Last time I checked, we had capital punishment enforcement for first-degree murder, as the smiting in this verse implies.

Cursing, in this instance, is WAAAAAAAAAY more than saying a few naughty four-letter words. It involved conduct and behavior that brought shame, misfortune, and dishonor on a family.

 
 

Bible comands you to kill Rebelous children,Kill people who cheat on their wives,Kill homosexuals.

Such things are illegal to do by mans law but are a sin NOT to do by gods law.

Until recently, we had laws on the books that made homosexuality and adultery illegal and punishable under the law. Granted, such were not capital offenses. But, they were consider illegal (and still considered immoral behavior). Furthermore, as it is in our society, such were to be tried and convicted in a court of law (i.e. the judges, mentioned in Exodus 21, where you got those verses), before sentencing of any kind was carried out.

As for the killing rebellious children bit, particularly in Deut. 21,  the verse says nothing of the sort. Like many other readers, you have assumed that the offender (the rebellious son) is a child, largely because we live in a society where people believe that they are only subject to their parents' authority as kids.

Read again the rest of verse 20, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. That sounds more like an adult than a kid to me. In other words, this passage is not suggesting that the judges of Israel heave rocks at little Ezekiel, for his not eating his manna or picking up his G.I. Jehosephat action figures off the floor.

Men, even as adults, stayed with their parents and were under their authority, until they got married, espeically considering that the parents arranged the marriages in the first place.

Furthermore, where does it state that is a sin, for the judges not to inflict the maximum sentence for violators of such laws?

[alexxx]

The bible doesn't even say Grown men can't have sex with young children.

The bible was written around 2,000 years ago and reflect the coustoms of the culture by whom it was written.

It condones Slavery.

It condones Torture.

It condones Rape.

It condones murder(as long as its for god)

It condones prejudice against women.

Ect..ect

Bullshit! Go read the ten commendments again!


About grown men having sexual relations with children, it is written in the bible that men shall not engage in detestable sexual activities.

[NarcissisticDeity]

My younger brother is in the Army and in Iraq as we type and he does not believe in any God and he serves proudly , you'd be suprised how many athetists are in the U.S . armed services .

[LuciusFox]

My younger brother is in the Army and in Iraq as we type and he does not believe in any God and he serves proudly , you'd be suprised how many athetists are in the U.S . armed services .

 I know, but people still trot out the same bullshit It gets really tiresome, like Ronnie Vs. Dorian debates

[NarcissisticDeity]

I know, but people still trot out the same bullshit It gets really tiresome, like Ronnie Vs. Dorian debates

Nuclear Meltdown !! 

[LuciusFox]

Nuclear Meltdown !! 

  Go back to England so you can suck on Dorian's toes

[NarcissisticDeity]

  Go back to England so you can suck on Dorian's toes

I'm American as applepie 

[Hugo Chavez]

It's really about one of the only things that turns me off.  Listening/reading and interview and hearing that one of your favorite bodybuilders feels that he's doing what he does because he was called to it by God.  God wants people to get all freaky huge by artificial means?  Uh-huh...  Lifting weights and bodybuilding for God.  Delusional.

[bigbalddaddy]

I'm American as applepie 

Dutch?

[Agnostic007]

Bullshit! Go read the ten commendments again!


About grown men having sexual relations with children, it is written in the bible that men shall not engage in detestable sexual activities.

Which 10 commandments are you referring too? There are 2 sets..the first set was destroyed when Moses came down and saw the people worshiping the Golden Calf. The second set replaced it and had a few differences. And the original poster is correct. There are bible verses that clearly indicate for example God condoned slavery. God was alleged to have told Moses that if a man beats his male, or female servant to death, he would be punished, however if he beats his male or female slave to near death, and they are able to recover in a few days, then he would not be punished, for the slaves were the property of the owner.

It also talks in Deut that if a man rapes an unengaged virgin, he must pay the father of the rape victim 50 shekels of silver and must marry his rape victim and not divorce.

Also talks of God commanding Moses to slay the Midianites. Afterwhich Moses kills the captive women and children and gives the virgin female captives to his soldiers.

Mark Twain said "It's not the parts of the bible I don't understand that give me trouble, its the parts I DO understand"

I think this bumper sticker sums it up rather well "Definition of Athiest- Person who has actually read the bible"

[alexxx]

Mark Twain said "It's not the parts of the bible I don't understand that give me trouble, its the parts I DO understand"

  That was very smart of him... and look at where he is now... hell!

[Croatch]

Because they know they're going to die soon or loose an organ.  Usually, someone closer to dying becomes religious.  After all, if you were hanging from a string and I said there's a .0001% chance there's a heaven, which is unfounded, pray and you'll go there.  You figure, what the hell, I'll give it a shot.
Heaven/hell are places in childrens books.  Grow up....haha

[bigdumbbell]

Because we were founded by Protestants not criminals. Ever heard of the Mayflower? Thanksgiving?

the pilgrims landed in provincetown 1620  found indians growing corn in north truro moved to plymouth the following spring

[LuciusFox]

All the tobacco arguments are fucking retarded.  Tobacco does not alter your state of mind.  You cannot get high off tobacco.  Yes you may die from use but use of that product does indeed only hurt yourself unless you make the argument of second hand smoke.  As far as alcohol, it is not as dangerous as drugs in the sense that you cannot get hooked the first time drinking a shot whereas with meth or heroin, you can.  I always hear the argument that people are doing harm to themselves but again I need to point out that because of the ABUSE of drugs, there have been universal laws put in place to police drugs.  People don't steal and kill to buy tobacco, yet they do for drugs.  SEE THE CONNECTION?  There is inherent harm associated with drug use.  Laws against alcohol are dealing with the potential and likely effects about actions after consumption.  The war on drugs is failing because large cartels and drug lords get off.  As someone who wants to go in law enforcement I fully admit that we as a country do not prosecute the "big fish" enough.  They should not be allowed plea deals and should serve hard time because they are corrupting the community.  

  People kill and steal for drugs because they are illegal and can be sold or obtained at ridiculously inflated prices. The arguments about tobacco are perfectly reasonable. Tobacco does alter the state of mind, although not in a particularly dangerous way. People who use tobacco are harming themselves and tobacco is VERY addictive, surely you know that.

 If people are permitted to harm themselves while using addictive substances such as tobacco, why is heroin or marijuana so different? Alcohol is more dangerous than illegal drugs because people use it more casually and on a larger scale. I am not against alcohol, mind you, but to say it is not dangerous is to ignore reality.

 It is irrelevant if a drug is mind altering unless that alteration causes it to harm others. Just because you are high does not mean you will harm others, any more than being drunk does.