Tilapia: Your thoughts on this CONTROVERSIAL fish

[Al Doggity]

Been on a mostly vegetarian/ pescatarian type diet for past few months. In previous years, I just avoided tilapia because of all the controversies surrounding it (I am fine with the taste). With whole foods new prices, their "responsibly raised" tilapia is actually comparable to canned albacore tuna now, so I've just been picking it up a few times a week.

I was at another grocery store over the weekend and was surprised at how much cheaper asian raised tilapia is. It has a terrible reputation, but even in nyc it was less than $5/lb. That is cheaper than decent canned tuna and also cheaper than medium quality ground beef at most places. There are a lot of strong opinions about asian raised fish. I've been doing some research, and I think I might be leaning into the camp that thinks it's probably not that bad.

What's your thoughts, getblurg? Am I an idiot? Probably so, but specifically, in regards to my thoughts on ingesting poison chinese fish?

[nativeMUSCLE]

Rutkowski orange roughy shits FTW

[Las Vegas]

Not to be trusted.  Very low standards.  Grabbing cash is the only thing a Chinese businessperson can be reliably counted upon to do.

[dan18]

Been on a mostly vegetarian/ pescatarian type diet for past few months. In previous years, I just avoided tilapia because of all the controversies surrounding it (I am fine with the taste). With whole foods new prices, their "responsibly raised" tilapia is actually comparable to canned albacore tuna now, so I've just been picking it up a few times a week.

I was at another grocery store over the weekend and was surprised at how much cheaper asian raised tilapia is. It has a terrible reputation, but even in nyc it was less than $5/lb. That is cheaper than decent canned tuna and also cheaper than medium quality ground beef at most places. There are a lot of strong opinions about asian raised fish. I've been doing some research, and I think I might be leaning into the camp that thinks it's probably not that bad.

What's your thoughts, getblurg? Am I an idiot? Probably so, but specifically, in regards to my thoughts on ingesting poison chinese fish?

cheap fish I like trout cleaned of its bones or salmon and I love sword fish

[Las Vegas]

why don't you stick safe reliable American food like clorinated chicken, hormone treated beef or genetically modified corn?

True.  Especially when you know the Chinese can outdo everyone (even us) in producing questionable food.

[Las Vegas]

cheap fish I like trout cleaned of its bones or salmon and I love sword fish

Okay.  10-4, understood, but a big No Homo on that.

[dan18]

Okay.  10-4, understood, but a big No Homo on that.

Their is no reason for a ( NO HOMO ) on that post if I said I like bone in then yes..

[Al Doggity]

why don't you stick safe reliable American food like clorinated chicken, hormone treated beef or genetically modified corn?

Well, yes, this is was the point of my post. There's so much other "hazardous stuff" in the typical American diet, when you look at it rationally maybe farmed tilapia from overseas isn't really comparatively that bad? 

I dont believe the Tilapia is exclusive to China
Is it realy the case that the tilapia consumed in the US comes from China or just associated with chinese restaurants?
As for them outdoing everybody else in questionable food they are a quarter of the worlds population.
If the US has good effective food safety regulations there should be little problem 

A huge amount of fish in America comes from asian countries. Whole foods makes a big deal about certain fish being sourced from America. Tilapia grows fast and is a huge vietnamese export.

[Las Vegas]

I dont believe the Tilapia is exclusive to China
Is it realy the case that the tilapia consumed in the US comes from China or just associated with chinese restaurants?
As for them outdoing everybody else in questionable food they are a quarter of the worlds population.
If the US has good effective food safety regulations there should be little problem 

Some does, yes.  The information's available to the consumer.  If it's a bag of fish, it'll be printed on that bag.

And yes, Vietnamese are producers as well - but IDK their standards.  We produce, too, and probably have better standards than many (but not all) places.  Chinese business, though, has shown itself (time and again) to be all about the cash grab.  Whether it's manufacturing a product to simply look like what the consumer's buying, but in effect is actually junk waiting to be immediately junked, or whether it's farmed product: IMO, it belongs in China and not here.

[Las Vegas]

Their is no reason for a ( NO HOMO ) on that post if I said I like bone in then yes..

True, you cancelled out the "sword" part nicely.  You're right.

[Go 4 It]

I stay away from that stuff, any farm raised fish (which is the tilapia from Walmart) the fats you are getting from that fish is omega 6 not omega 3, because those fish aren't eating algae and their natural diet, so you're better off eating chicken and it's cheaper, and just go buy a good quality fish oil and supplement with that everyday.

[funk51]

tilapia aka garbage disposal of the sea

[Las Vegas]

I stay away from that stuff, any farm raised fish (which is the tilapia from Walmart) the fats you are getting from that fish is omega 6 not omega 3, because those fish aren't eating algae and their natural diet, so you're better off eating chicken and it's cheaper, and just go buy a good quality fish oil and supplement with that everyday.

If that's true, then not a bad idea.

[Al Doggity]

I stay away from that stuff, any farm raised fish (which is the tilapia from Walmart) the fats you are getting from that fish is omega 6 not omega 3, because those fish aren't eating algae and their natural diet, so you're better off eating chicken and it's cheaper, and just go buy a good quality fish oil and supplement with that everyday.

Actually one of the things I looked into over the weekend and one of the reasons I started this thread. A lot of scientists don't believe that Omega 6s have the risk factors that were often associated with them. There was even a study that attributed the increase of Omega 6s in the american diet to a decrease in heart disease death since the 1960s. Overall, I think this is the type of nitpicking science that can change on a year-by-year, study-by-study basis so I consider it a draw. I don't think one is significantly worse or better.

A lot of the asian farmed fish is very cheap. In terms of price, if you're primary concern was omega imbalances, it wouldn't make less sense to supplement your fish with fish oil.

[Al Doggity]

tilapia aka garbage disposal of the sea

Here's the thing; we use compost in commercial farming. Tons of seafood are bottom feeders. Is tilapia really any more disgusting in that regard?

[BB]

After years of revamping their aquaculture systems, Chinese/Asian Tilapia usually ranks as barely passable by various sea food ranking organizations. That being said, China controls about 40% of the market, so if you buy cheap fish you'll probably be using their products at some point.

The rankings on Tilapia usually go - American, South American, Mexico/Central American, Asia (with the exception of Indonesia) in terms of quality. For cheaper Tilapia and general seafood, Costco has a good reputation. They, and a few others source from - www.regalsprings.com , which seems to be very respected in the industry.

[mphgrove]

I think tilapia has totally blah taste so it’s a moot point for me. But I study fish extensively so here’s the summary:

US raised tilapia excellent bodybuilding lean whitefish and VERY LOW toxins
Tilapia raised outside US: risk of VERY HIGH toxins. I am sure there are exceptions, but how would you ever know, even with Whole Foods as retailer.

I have a friend who has visited tilapia farms in Vietnam. Gross is her report

[Go 4 It]

Actually one of the things I looked into over the weekend and one of the reasons I started this thread. A lot of scientists don't believe that Omega 6s have the risk factors that were often associated with them. There was even a study that attributed the increase of Omega 6s in the american diet to a decrease in heart disease death since the 1960s. Overall, I think this is the type of nitpicking science that can change on a year-by-year, study-by-study basis so I consider it a draw. I don't think one is significantly worse or better.

A lot of the asian farmed fish is very cheap. In terms of price, if you're primary concern was omega imbalances, it wouldn't make less sense to supplement your fish with fish oil.

My goal when eating fish is to get omega 3's or else why would you eat it? Especially tilapia, farm raised fish have little to no omega 3's, so why not just eat chicken or turkey? To me chicken or turkey taste better and are cheaper. If you want to buy wild caught fish they are damn expensive, so at the end of the day, you're better off eating chicken, beef, turkey, eggs, and supplementing with fish oil.

[mphgrove]

My goal when eating fish is to get omega 3's or else why would you eat it? Especially tilapia, farm raised fish have little to no omega 3's, so why not just eat chicken or turkey? To me chicken or turkey taste better and are cheaper. If you want to buy wild caught fish they are damn expensive, so at the end of the day, you're better off eating chicken, beef, turkey, eggs, and supplementing with fish oil.

Difference between pre-contest and general health during off season. Yes, the fish pre-contest needs to be the ones without the omegas so I agree with your point EXCEPT I get sick of just chicken and turkey so I weave in the generally lower toxin low fat whitefish for taste (cod, pollack, whiting, US tilapia, scallops which are expensive though). Off season is a whole different story: lots of high omega fish is great: sardines, herring, Arctic char, rainbow trout, wild salmon. These are extremely good for muscle building, very healthy, generally low toxins and very rich taste. Much better than fish oil pills.

[Primemuscle]

why don't you stick safe reliable American food like clorinated chicken, hormone treated beef or genetically modified corn?

Good point.

[Taffin]

I think tilapia has totally blah taste so it’s a moot point for me. But I study fish extensively so here’s the summary:

US raised tilapia excellent bodybuilding lean whitefish and VERY LOW toxins
Tilapia raised outside US: risk of VERY HIGH toxins. I am sure there are exceptions, but how would you ever know, even with Whole Foods as retailer.

I have a friend who has visited tilapia farms in Vietnam. Gross is her report

Interesting - do you study fish professionally?

What do you mean when you say 'toxins' please?

And can you define 'VERY HIGH' - on what scale?  Measured by who?  Is there an ACCEPTABLE level of 'toxins'..?

Thanks in advance...

[Montague]

cheap fish I like trout cleaned of its bones or salmon and I love sword fish

Be careful with consumption of too much sword fish.

It's got some of the highest toxin amounts of the large predatory fish.

[Tapeworm]

Be careful with consumption of too much sword fish.

It's got some of the highest toxin amounts of the large predatory fish.

Yep, was gonna say. 

Explains why your grammar has been getting worser and worser, Dan.  All that lead!

[mphgrove]

Interesting - do you study fish professionally?

What do you mean when you say 'toxins' please?

And can you define 'VERY HIGH' - on what scale?  Measured by who?  Is there an ACCEPTABLE level of 'toxins'..?

Thanks in advance...

No not professionally. But I eat a lot of fish and there are risks associated with eating fish. Toxins are “poisons” and they can be a bit of everything but notably mercury and PCBs and sewage and industrial chemicals. Haven’t you seen people fishing in certain waters and said to yourself, “I certainly would not eat that fish.” There are lots of online resources as well as various government entities issue reports, but there is built in pressure to sugar coat some aspects of this because of the commercial implications. Not to be exhaustive but here are some examples:

Quite toxic (often the larger, long living fish that are wild caught)
Swordfish
Orange roughy
Lots of kinds of tuna
Turbot (Atlantic halibut)
Grouper
Halibut
Mahi mahi
Tilefish
Bluefish
Sea bass
Farmed salmon (always eat wild salmon)
Farmed shrimp from Asia, for example
Carp
Lake trout

In between (pretty good)
Cod
Pollack
Whiting
Haddock
Ocean perch

Good (often smaller fish)
Farmed muscles
Farmed oysters (usually)
Scallops
US tilapia
US farmed rainbow trout
US farmed catfish
Sardines
Herring
Smaller mackerel (usually, but not always)
Arctic char
Wild salmon

Fish are very local to various parts of the world. The above tends to be a US perspective.
No, I don’t know actual “acceptable” levels of toxins but often a government entity will say a pregnant woman should not eat ANY of the fish on the bad list and regular people should only eat the bad ones once or twice a month. But that can get tricky because you might eat swordfish twice a month and forget and eat orange roughy twice that same month. I tend to think the warnings are probably overly alarmist so I just have the bad ones (some of which I love) as a special treat and then eat others that I love like scallops or Arctic char or haddock or herring or muscles all the time.

[El Diablo Blanco]

I always found it to have a muddied flavor. Kind of sort like. I’d rather pay more for cod or halibut