Atheists are STUPID!

[GET_BIGGER]

http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/universe/b_bang.html

"Although the Big Bang Theory is widely accepted, it probably will never be proved; consequentially, leaving a number of tough, unanswered questions. "






Yeah, sounds crystal clear to me.

[GET_BIGGER]

http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/does-god-exist-c.htm

(A link provided from a "Big Bang" article)

Does God Exist - Things to Consider
Once you're ready to ask the question, "does God exist?" here are a few observations to consider as you begin your search for an objective answer:

Discoveries in astronomy have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe did, in fact, have a beginning. There was a single moment of creation.
Advances in molecular biology have revealed vast amounts of information encoded in each and every living cell, and molecular biologists have discovered thousands upon thousands of exquisitely designed machines at the molecular level. Information requires intelligence and design requires a designer.
Biochemists and mathematicians have calculated the odds against life arising from non-life naturally via unintelligent processes. The odds are astronomical. In fact, scientists aren't even sure if life could have evolved naturally via unintelligent processes. If life did not arise by chance, how did it arise?
The universe is ordered by natural laws. Where did these laws come from and what purpose do they serve?
Philosophers agree that a transcendent Law Giver is the only plausible explanation for an objective moral standard. So, ask yourself if you believe in right and wrong and then ask yourself why. Who gave you your conscience? Why does it exist?
People of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, claim to have personally experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these prodigious accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and other miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be sure, but is there something more?





Geez, making the Big Bang theory even more clear.....

[ToxicAvenger]

actually you gotta factor in quantum mechanix..the bubble theory , string theory when thinking about the universe...

also google dark energy and have a read...

the universe does not need a creator to errupt out of nothing..quantum uncertanity and the "uncertanity principle" takes care of that  while you'r at it " google "paulis exclusion principle"

virtual particles are created out of NOTHING all the time...and ahihilate eachother..a virtual particl and its anti particle...how so? cause one can NEVEr say that a given systen has value 0...again read the uncertanity principle..

i've posted these links on the general wayy too many times without anyone paying any attention to do it again..

google it yourself..

[w8tlftr]

I will.




The argument basically says that because life is so complex, it could not have sprung into existence on it's own, it required the help of "God", right?

Well, no matter how complex life and the universe is, the "God" that created it would have to be infinitely more complex, right?

So, since we started with the premise "complexity could not have evolved on it's own, it must have been created", that kind of begs the question, "Who created 'God'?"

"Supergod"?

If so, who created "Supergod"?  "Ultragod"?   

If your answer is that the chain stops with "God", you've blown your whole initial argument out of the water, since if it is possible that "God" either always existed or evolved on "his" own, it is equally possible that the universe did.



Occam's Razor: "Do not multiply entities unnecessarily", or put more directly, "Don't try to make it more complex than it needs to be... the simplest explanation is usually the correct one".

Interesting input. Really makes you wonder about the possibility of different planes of reality.

Wasn't Ultra-God a Japanese anime show? 

[slippediskmountian]

jimmy is the only reason you arent a corpse around here!

[slippediskmountian]

i have leverage









not pull

[Bigger Business]

I say that leprechauns exist!



Does anyone disagree with this?



If you do, you have to prove that leprechauns don't exist.



If you can't, that means that leprechauns do exist, and I'm right and you're wrong!




 

Im wit Goat

If you say you saw Elvis or a dragon youre nutz

unless of course Elvis AND jesus were riding the dragon

[Johnny Apollo]

Clear facts? You mean the scientific community was able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that "the Big Bang" created the universe and that evolution is indeed hardcore fact?

Yes and Yes.

These are theories that have been proven through countless tests in a controlled environments?

Evolution and the Big bang aren't theories. They are facts. There are THEORIES ABOUT THEM however. How they occured and why are scientific theories. THAT they occured are scientific facts.

Many things prove Evolution and the Big bang. I'll list a few for each that proves absolutely each occured.

Evolution-Endogenious retroviruses, Transitional fossils, Redundant pseudo genes, DNA simalirity.

Big Bang- Expanson of Space-Time, Background radiation, Cosmological constant.

Don't get me wrong. I'm very open to the idea of evolution - I really am. I'm just not ready to jump on the "evolution" bandwagon yet. I guess you could call it a lack of faith. 

What do you think of Antony Flew?

The "Evolution bandwagon" is infact the same as the "Round earth bandwagon".


What do I think of Mr.Flew? Nothing much. He turned into a Deist because he beleives that natural explanations for the universe aren't "as good" as supernatural ones. A stupid belief but his belief. His BELIEF isn't evidence of anything.

Most likely he turned into a Deist because of emotional reasons. Many aren't strong enough to be atheists and not believe in some "father figure" in the sky. They need something supernatural to believe in. Note the "God" he said he believed in was an inactive God. Meaning one that made the universe about 13 billion years ago and then left it after that. Not interfering with life or humans or anything like that. A Deistic God.

[Johnny Apollo]

The same goes for proof that God doesn't exist as atheists claim.

There are two types of Atheism..

1.Strong atheism

2.Weak Atheism.

Strong Atheism=There is no GOD!

Weak Atheism=Lack of belief there is a God.

Weak atheism makes no claims.

[Johnny Apollo]

http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/universe/b_bang.html

"Although the Big Bang Theory is widely accepted, it probably will never be proved; consequentially, leaving a number of tough, unanswered questions. "


Yeah, sounds crystal clear to me.

That article uses "Theory" in laymen terms so as not to confuse laymen who frequently read such sites.

In reality...Scientific Theories NEVER become "proven" only disproven in which case they are replaced by another theory that accounts for the new evidence against the last.

"Big bang theory" isn't the same as "The big bang".

The Big bang "Theory" explains the big bang...How and why it occured.

The Big bang happened. "Big bang" as in about 13 billion years ago the universes suddenly started expanding from a singularity and is still doing so today.(Which can be measured via background radiation).

[w8tlftr]

There are two types of Atheism..

1.Strong atheism

2.Weak Atheism.

Strong Atheism=There is no GOD!

Weak Atheism=Lack of belief there is a God.

Weak atheism makes no claims.

So then by your reasoning:

1. Lack of faith of a God makes a weak atheist. Since you make no claim that God does not exist you would be a weak atheist.
2. Anyone who has faith in the existence of God is a weak because they lack the strength to submit themselves totally to science and scientific theory.

Would this analysis of your statements be correct?

[Johnny Apollo]

http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/does-god-exist-c.htm

(A link provided from a "Big Bang" article)

Does God Exist - Things to Consider
Once you're ready to ask the question, "does God exist?" here are a few observations to consider as you begin your search for an objective answer:

Discoveries in astronomy have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe did, in fact, have a beginning. There was a single moment of creation.
Advances in molecular biology have revealed vast amounts of information encoded in each and every living cell, and molecular biologists have discovered thousands upon thousands of exquisitely designed machines at the molecular level. Information requires intelligence and design requires a designer.

Biochemists and mathematicians have calculated the odds against life arising from non-life naturally via unintelligent processes. The odds are astronomical. In fact, scientists aren't even sure if life could have evolved naturally via unintelligent processes. If life did not arise by chance, how did it arise?
The universe is ordered by natural laws. Where did these laws come from and what purpose do they serve?  

This is absolutely false. NO ONE has calculated the odds of evolution or natural formation of the universe. Such calculatins would be IMPOSSIBLE given the infinite amount of unknown variables.

Secondly you say "Information requires an intelligent designer". Ok..PROVE IT. Prove information can't form without an intelligent designer.

Philosophers agree that a transcendent Law Giver is the only plausible explanation for an objective moral standard. So, ask yourself if you believe in right and wrong and then ask yourself why. Who gave you your conscience? Why does it exist?

Some philosophers agree and many others don't. Philosophers aren't scientists. Philosophers can't answer advanced scientific questions. Their OPINIONS are of little importance to such scientific questions.

Who gave me my conscience? EVOLUTION. Humans(Like most other animals) evolved so they could live alongside other of their own or in some cases other species. If humans evolved with no conscience(Scientists call it empathy) then they would not feel bad when they killed other humans. A population of humans not feeling bad for killing other humans would not last very long now would it? Empathy is the result of Evolution.

People of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, claim to have personally experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these prodigious accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and other miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be sure, but is there something more?

Geez, making the Big Bang theory even more clear.....

Personal anecdotes mean absolutely nothing. Unless they can be documented, Measured and tested they aren't science. People fool themselves and often misinterpret things that are completly natural as supernatural. This happens alot. People who see something they can't explain often interpret it as supernatural if they aren't critical thinkers.
It's human nature to misinterpret things when under alot of stress. You see a fog at a distance in the shape of a human and instantly you interpret it as a ghost if you don't know better.

[Johnny Apollo]

So then by your reasoning:

1. Lack of faith of a God makes a weak atheist. Since you make no claim that God does not exist you would be a weak atheist.
2. Anyone who has faith in the existence of God is a weak because they lack the strength to submit themselves totally to science and scientific theory.

Would this analysis of your statements be correct?

"Lack of belief" is weak atheism. I make no claim that god does or does not exist i'm a weak atheist. Weak atheists do not believe a God exists but do not make the assertion that one does not absolutely exist.

Anyone who believes in a God is mentally weak in that particular area of critical thinking. They are either emotionally weak or intellectually. Meaning they either believe because it makes them feel good or they believe because they really think the evidence supports it.
Newton was a Genius. Yet he believed in the Bible strictly and believed in prophecies and spent many years with alchemy and other nonsense like that. Alchemy is trying to turn iron into gold...
People can be extremly intelligent in some areas but extremly stupid in other areas.

[w8tlftr]

"Lack of belief" is weak atheism. I make no claim that god does or does not exist i'm a weak atheist. Weak atheists do not believe a God exists but do not make the assertion that one does not absolutely exist.

Anyone who believes in a God is mentally weak in that particular area of critical thinking. They are either emotionally weak or intellectually. Meaning they either believe because it makes them feel good or they believe because they really think the evidence supports it.
Newton was a Genius. Yet he believed in the Bible strictly and believed in prophecies and spent many years with alchemy and other nonsense like that. Alchemy is trying to turn iron into gold...
People can be extremly intelligent in some areas but extremly stupid in other areas.

This definition of critical thinking was taken from the Critical Thinking Community (http://www.criticalthinking.org/aboutCT/definingCT.shtml)

Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action. In its exemplary form, it is based on universal intellectual values that transcend subject matter divisions: clarity, accuracy, precision, consistency, relevance, sound evidence, good reasons, depth, breadth, and fairness.

It entails the examination of those structures or elements of thought implicit in all reasoning: purpose, problem, or question-at-issue; assumptions; concepts; empirical grounding; reasoning leading to conclusions; implications and consequences; objections from alternative viewpoints; and frame of reference. Critical thinking - in being responsive to variable subject matter, issues, and purposes - is incorporated in a family of interwoven modes of thinking, among them: scientific thinking, mathematical thinking, historical thinking, anthropological thinking, economic thinking, moral thinking, and philosophical thinking.

It seems to me that believing in God fits the description of critical thinking. I'm not talking about blind faith (belief without question) but trying to gain knowledge and understanding of the Bible and using science to help unlock the mysteries of how we came to be.

[Johnny Apollo]

This definition of critical thinking was taken from the Critical Thinking Community (http://www.criticalthinking.org/aboutCT/definingCT.shtml)

Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action. In its exemplary form, it is based on universal intellectual values that transcend subject matter divisions: clarity, accuracy, precision, consistency, relevance, sound evidence, good reasons, depth, breadth, and fairness.

It entails the examination of those structures or elements of thought implicit in all reasoning: purpose, problem, or question-at-issue; assumptions; concepts; empirical grounding; reasoning leading to conclusions; implications and consequences; objections from alternative viewpoints; and frame of reference. Critical thinking - in being responsive to variable subject matter, issues, and purposes - is incorporated in a family of interwoven modes of thinking, among them: scientific thinking, mathematical thinking, historical thinking, anthropological thinking, economic thinking, moral thinking, and philosophical thinking.

It seems to me that believing in God fits the description of critical thinking. I'm not talking about blind faith (belief without question) but trying to gain knowledge and understanding of the Bible and using science to help unlock the mysteries of how we came to be.

Moral and philosophical thinking does not equate to a belief in a God. I myself am a moral and philosophical atheist. I actually come to atheism via philosophy and contemplation. There are many fields of philosophy dedicated to secular moralism.
Most university teachers who teach philosophy will agree with me that the philosophical logic of a "God" just doesn't make sense. Many reasons. Obvious reasons. Many paradoxes concerning the existence of a God. Espically an Omnipotent God as described in the Bible. Many problems with the moral aspects of such a being existing. Simply blaming all of our problems on the adam&eve sinning doesn't sufice considering the entire story of genesis has been disproven by science.


Understanding the Bible is not a bad thing. Truly understanding who wrote it and why they wrote it and what it means is a good thing. Your conclusions won't be that it is the flawless conclusion of some omnipotent God..Oh no..It will be that the bible was composed by ancient people in the middle east and it details their beliefs about the world. Nothing more.

Using science to unlock the mysteries of the bible isn't a bad thing either. Actually science IS doing just that. Science is explaining the various aspects of the bible and how some are based on history and most are based on false mythology.

[w8tlftr]

Moral and philosophical thinking does not equate to a belief in a God. I myself am a moral and philosophical atheist. I actually come to atheism via philosophy and contemplation. There are many fields of philosophy dedicated to secular moralism.
Most university teachers who teach philosophy will agree with me that the philosophical logic of a "God" just doesn't make sense. Many reasons. Obvious reasons. Many paradoxes concerning the existence of a God. Espically an Omnipotent God as described in the Bible. Many problems with the moral aspects of such a being existing. Simply blaming all of our problems on the adam&eve sinning doesn't sufice considering the entire story of genesis has been disproven by science.


Understanding the Bible is not a bad thing. Truly understanding who wrote it and why they wrote it and what it means is a good thing. Your conclusions won't be that it is the flawless conclusion of some omnipotent God..Oh no..It will be that the bible was composed by ancient people in the middle east and it details their beliefs about the world. Nothing more.

Using science to unlock the mysteries of the bible isn't a bad thing either. Actually science IS doing just that. Science is explaining the various aspects of the bible and how some are based on history and most are based on false mythology.

Moral and philosophical thinking in relation to religion is a debate for another time. I'll have do more research to justify my interpretation and give you an intelligent debate.

The Bible is just a book written by man that provides to us the laws of God. Because it was written by man it's important not to get caught up purely in it's literal translation. IMO, it's better to look for the spirit of the law or what God and Jesus intended. Far to many attrocities have happened in man's dark history in the name of God and religion because of someones twisted view of God in order to satisfy their own selfish agenda. I do not plan to be a party to anymore of them.

As far as blaming things on Adam and Eve... well, to me, it's an excuse by those that refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. What's done is done and what will be will be. All I can do is try to live my life by the following simple rules:

1. Reject passivity
2. Accept responsibility
3. Lead courageously
4. Expect God's reward

[Johnny Apollo]

Moral and philosophical thinking in relation to religion is a debate for another time. I'll have do more research to justify my interpretation and give you an intelligent debate.

The Bible is just a book written by man that provides to us the laws of God. Because it was written by man it's important not to get caught up purely in it's literal translation. IMO, it's better to look for the spirit of the law or what God and Jesus intended. Far to many attrocities have happened in man's dark history in the name of God and religion because of someones twisted view of God in order to satisfy their own selfish agenda. I do not plan to be a party to anymore of them.

As far as blaming things on Adam and Eve... well, to me, it's an excuse by those that refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. What's done is done and what will be will be. All I can do is try to live my life by the following simple rules:

1. Reject passivity
2. Accept responsibility
3. Lead courageously
4. Expect God's reward

1.You're stating that the bible details the "laws of God" without ever proving a God exists.


2.When I say "blaming it on adam and eve" i'm taking about NATURAL things like detah, Disease, Pain, Suffering, plagues..ect..ect. Inorder to live in this world you must kill and death is unavoidable. This world is full of pain and suffering. It was formed that way. Any God responsible for such a world would not be a God i'd worship even if I believed it existed.
Christians say "Well man is responsible for all of those things" by saying Adam and eve sinned and thus the world went into chaos. That is what I was refuting.

But you've also got problems HUMANS cause. A moral god would intervene and stop evil humans from hurting innocent humans. He would stop war and cure disease even if humans caused them. If humans are his children he should act like the adult and take care of them and end war,famine,suffering..ect.
The fact that people believe such a God exists that could wave his finger and abolish pain and suffering and disease from the world in a micro second yet allows it to continue amazes me. And the fact they WORSHIP such a god is baffling to me.

[Johnny Apollo]

Wow.... the fundamentalists would have a field day with you. 

His argument is "Even if the bible says so and so..It's false because my gut/"Spirit" tells me so. But you should still follow the bible!"

Doesn't make much sense does it?

[w8tlftr]

1.You're stating that the bible details the "laws of God" without ever proving a God exists.


2.When I say "blaming it on adam and eve" i'm taking about NATURAL things like detah, Disease, Pain, Suffering, plagues..ect..ect. Inorder to live in this world you must kill and death is unavoidable. This world is full of pain and suffering. It was formed that way. Any God responsible for such a world would not be a God i'd worship even if I believed it existed.
Christians say "Well man is responsible for all of those things" by saying Adam and eve sinned and thus the world went into chaos. That is what I was refuting.

But you've also got problems HUMANS cause. A moral god would intervene and stop evil humans from hurting innocent humans. He would stop war and cure disease even if humans caused them. If humans are his children he should act like the adult and take care of them and end war,famine,suffering..ect.
The fact that people believe such a God exists that could wave his finger and abolish pain and suffering and disease from the world in a micro second yet allows it to continue amazes me. And the fact they WORSHIP such a god is baffling to me.

If the Bible is not a "roadmap" to savlation what is it? As far as the proof of God's existence? Well, I've yet to see absolute proof but through my own lifes experiences and logic and reason I have faith in his existence.

The world is a nasty place without a doubt. However, it's what we do with our time here that defines who we are as people and a race. God gave us the free will to choose our own path.

I'm of the belief that if God suddenly showed up today and proved beyond a reasonable doubt he was God and then put an end to world suffering there would still be those that doubted him or be angry that he would interfere in the affairs of man.

[w8tlftr]

His argument is "Even if the bible says so and so..It's false because my gut/"Spirit" tells me so. But you should still follow the bible!"

Doesn't make much sense does it?

Sure it does. I don't take the Bible literally. I try to put it in context and look for it's meaning.

You've had arguments with Stella regarding Genesis about this.

[w8tlftr]

Wow.... the fundamentalists would have a field day with you. 

Let them. It wouldn't change a thing.

If everyone agreed on how the Bible was to be interpreted we wouldn't have so many different denominations of Christianity.

[Johnny Apollo]

I'm of the belief that if God suddenly showed up today and proved beyond a reasonable doubt he was God and then put an end to world suffering there would still be those that doubted him or be angry that he would interfere in the affairs of man.

SO WHAT???

Children often throw fits when their parents give them medicine. So what? It's for their own good.

If this God like a father then he should act like one. Stop letting people suffer and die needlessly and fix the world. He's OMNIPOTENT meaning he can do ANYTHING right? He should make the world better then. Get rid of aids and cancer. End death. End suffering. Make humans not required to kill other animals to survive. Make humans mentally stronger so they can't be hurt from emotional types of things. Sure the population will increase..So what? God can make the world larger and larger with the same gravity. Why not? He's GOD afterall!

The fact of the matter is this...The world is as the world formed and things happen as nature intends them to happen. Death,Suffering,Evil and pain are rampant and that's all there is to it. IF a God exists then he is either 1.Unable to fix the world or 2.Evil. Simple as that. Those are the only two explanations. A moral god would not sit back and do nothing while death and suffering occured on a masive scale. I don't sit back and do nothing if I am able to do something. I help when I see a problem. I do all I can to help other people when I see a problem. I don't sit back with infinite power and watch as people die and suffer!

[Johnny Apollo]

Let them. It wouldn't change a thing.

If everyone agreed on how the Bible was to be interpreted we would have so many different denominations of Christianity.

You mean we wouldn't have so many different denominations.

[w8tlftr]

You mean we wouldn't have so many different denominations.

Right. Wouldn't.

Sorry about the typo.

[w8tlftr]

SO WHAT???

Children often throw fits when their parents give them medicine. So what? It's for their own good.

If this God like a father then he should act like one. Stop letting people suffer and die needlessly and fix the world. He's OMNIPOTENT meaning he can do ANYTHING right? He should make the world better then. Get rid of aids and cancer. End death. End suffering. Make humans not required to kill other animals to survive. Make humans mentally stronger so they can't be hurt from emotional types of things. Sure the population will increase..So what? God can make the world larger and larger with the same gravity. Why not? He's GOD afterall!

The fact of the matter is this...The world is as the world formed and things happen as nature intends them to happen. Death,Suffering,Evil and pain are rampant and that's all there is to it. IF a God exists then he is either 1.Unable to fix the world or 2.Evil. Simple as that. Those are the only two explanations. A moral god would not sit back and do nothing while death and suffering occured on a masive scale. I don't sit back and do nothing if I am able to do something. I help when I see a problem. I do all I can to help other people when I see a problem. I don't sit back with infinite power and watch as people die and suffer!

So then you would make all drugs illegal, make abortion illegal, etc. because it's harmful to the body and immoral?

....or would you respect the free will of people and let them make their own choices (for better or worse) but still hold them accountable?

See where I'm going with this?