Author Topic: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'  (Read 20780 times)

chrisbro

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 484
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #125 on: September 05, 2018, 03:03:41 AM »
that is completely the reverse of what's happened in SA. whites came to SA, enslaved africans, pushed a 90% majority population onto less than 10% of their own land, refused them voting rights, murdered dissenters at will and that's just scratching the surface of the evil committed.

since blacks have democratically taken control of the country they have (in general) held themselves to immeasurably higher standards than during white rule. whites can still vote, the majority of white owned assets have not been confiscated(even though mostly gained by exploiting africans and their natural resources), there are no laws restricting freedom of movement. all of these rights were not afforded to blacks during white rule.

and then you have whingy afrikaner fk boys like griffin whining on about how badly whites have it in post apartheid SA. instead of being rightly grateful to the black population for treating them a million times better than when roles were reversed.
If the White man never brought Black People back to the UK, you would not be here you half cast Baboon.

obsidian

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6637
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #126 on: September 05, 2018, 03:16:08 AM »
firstly, the figs i quoted for farm murders are not from the government. they are figs from a collective of SA agriculture organisations, which happen to be predominantly white, as whites make up the majority of the agriculture sector.

there is no media blackout. the ANC have announced a policy that allows them to remove white farmers from stolen land without compensation (trump style nationalism). western media has tried to spin and sentationalise this into a story saying this has led to a surge in farm murders. in reality that's not the case. this issue now is getting more western media coverage now than when farm murders were at much higher levels. there's just little interest in the west.

btw the biggest earning SA agricultural products are luxury items like citrus, wine and grapes and these are generally exported. the staples like rice, corn and wheat etc are mainly imported. and as highlighted in my previous post agriculture makes up less than 3% of total gdp anyway. so even if every last white farmer should decide to up and leave, SA will be just fine.

and why should white SA farmers be offered refugee status? they are living on stolen land, they can move anywhere else in SA and they will be under no threat of persecution or physical harm. so they are not genuine asylum seekers.
Aren't you living on stolen land as well in UK? The treasonous government gave it to you? Some farmers recently bought the land after 1994 under black rule. So it is not stolen.

Why are you still alive? I thought I told you to kill yourself cucker! Listen better next time will you?! We need to free up some oxygen which you are consuming / stealing on a daily basis.

Griffith

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8848
  • .......
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #127 on: September 05, 2018, 03:27:45 AM »
If the White man never brought Black People back to the UK, you would not be here you half cast Baboon.

 ;D

mac33

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 753
  • Getbig!
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #128 on: September 05, 2018, 03:58:58 AM »
Simple answer is, white people brought laws, before it was law of the jungle as you say. Now things are going south with cultural war inspired by communism.

All we found out was that some people have hatred for the western ideals just because they are completely incapable of coming close to the standards the west brought to the world.

Lots of countries would be better of importing SA farmers than primitive savagery tribes called mohammedans with only ideal they have is a slave god and his psychopath prophet without a prophecy called mohammed and his life written down as an example for them to live by.


There is a parallel to islam and communism and first one being freedom of individual is forbidden and your life has to be controlled and you have to submit to the system of insane ideology.

The other is for the system and ideology to be implemented there has to be bloodshed and violent enforcement of it.

Try and read or listen to Milton Friedman a bit, maybe Hayek later on so you understand why western way is best way.

Griffith

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8848
  • .......
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #129 on: September 05, 2018, 05:55:33 AM »
Here's an article by an African-American economist who visited SA from the 1970's - 1990's.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/09/05/south-africa-will-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe-if-it-doesnt-change-course/

South Africa Will Go the Way of Zimbabwe If It Doesn’t Change Course

Here's an excerpt:

Colonial masters never committed anything near the murder and genocide seen under black rule in Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda, Nigeria, Mozambique, Somalia, and other countries, where millions of blacks have been slaughtered in unspeakable ways, including being hacked to death, boiled in oil, set on fire, and dismembered. Kenny said that if as many elephants, zebras, and lions were as ruthlessly slaughtered, the world’s leftists would be in a tizzy.

Ghanaian economist George Ayittey expressed a similar complaint in his book “Africa Betrayed”: “White rulers in South Africa could be condemned, but not black African leaders guilty of the same political crimes.”

Moeletsi Mbeki, a brother of former South African President Thabo Mbeki’s and deputy chairman of the South African Institute of International Affairs, an independent think tank based at the University of the Witwatersrand, said in 2004 that Africa was in a spiral of decline. “The average African is poorer than during the age of colonialism,” he said.

Zimbabwe, South Africa’s northern neighbor formerly called Rhodesia, was southern Africa’s breadbasket. That was prior to the confiscation of nearly 6,000 large white-owned commercial farms during the 1990s. By the turn of the century, Zimbabwe was threatened with mass starvation and was begging for food.

Added to that tragedy, Zimbabwe experienced history’s second-highest inflation rate. It reached 79.6 billion percent in mid-November 2008. (In 1946, Hungary experienced the world’s highest inflation rate, 41.9 quadrillion percent.)

South Africa leads in mining, food production, and critical infrastructure, such as power production and railroading, in southern Africa. But it’s going the same way as Zimbabwe, spelling disaster for the entire southern part of Africa.

Parker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 53475
  • He Sees The Stormy Anger Of The World
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #130 on: September 05, 2018, 06:38:56 AM »
Here's an article by an African-American economist who visited SA from the 1970's - 1990's.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/09/05/south-africa-will-go-the-way-of-zimbabwe-if-it-doesnt-change-course/

South Africa Will Go the Way of Zimbabwe If It Doesn’t Change Course

Here's an excerpt:

Colonial masters never committed anything near the murder and genocide seen under black rule in Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda, Nigeria, Mozambique, Somalia, and other countries, where millions of blacks have been slaughtered in unspeakable ways, including being hacked to death, boiled in oil, set on fire, and dismembered. Kenny said that if as many elephants, zebras, and lions were as ruthlessly slaughtered, the world’s leftists would be in a tizzy.

Ghanaian economist George Ayittey expressed a similar complaint in his book “Africa Betrayed”: “White rulers in South Africa could be condemned, but not black African leaders guilty of the same political crimes.”

Moeletsi Mbeki, a brother of former South African President Thabo Mbeki’s and deputy chairman of the South African Institute of International Affairs, an independent think tank based at the University of the Witwatersrand, said in 2004 that Africa was in a spiral of decline. “The average African is poorer than during the age of colonialism,” he said.

Zimbabwe, South Africa’s northern neighbor formerly called Rhodesia, was southern Africa’s breadbasket. That was prior to the confiscation of nearly 6,000 large white-owned commercial farms during the 1990s. By the turn of the century, Zimbabwe was threatened with mass starvation and was begging for food.

Added to that tragedy, Zimbabwe experienced history’s second-highest inflation rate. It reached 79.6 billion percent in mid-November 2008. (In 1946, Hungary experienced the world’s highest inflation rate, 41.9 quadrillion percent.)

South Africa leads in mining, food production, and critical infrastructure, such as power production and railroading, in southern Africa. But it’s going the same way as Zimbabwe, spelling disaster for the entire southern part of Africa.

This is of course common sense. Now, who will they look to help them out and for money? You know the answer.

Conker

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3189
  • looks like you went for the overcooked potato look
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #131 on: September 05, 2018, 10:20:36 AM »
you people are so fkin ignorant you deserve a medal. SA is not reliant on farming. it's GDP output has tripled since the end of apartheid. along with nigeria it is the leading african economy. the white farmers are of little significance(other than as an election tool) they can leave, they can stay, they can get butchered, whatever the fk they like. SA will continue to move forward regardless.

mac33

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 753
  • Getbig!
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #132 on: September 05, 2018, 12:34:27 PM »
SA is not the country it was under white people - it is going downhill, Arnold was right saying country will go to shit once the blacks get ahold of it. Rotten and forgotten...

DION NISSENBAUM: Sure. I spoke with Rick Wayne a few weeks ago and he’s another African body builder who works here in the United States as black body builder. And he is actually been fairly close friend of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s over the decades. And met him when he was a young man who was a fairly staunch defender of the Apartheid system in South Africa. Mr. Wayne told me that Arnold Schwarzenegger told him that he believed that if the white regime turned the country over to the blacks they would run it into the ground. Now, I did actually speak with Robby Robinson last week about these allegations, which I think are more disturbing. And at this point I would like to say that I have yet to find people that can verify that story that apparently happened in a banquet room with a large number of people. So if true, I do think that is disturbing. At this point the people that I have spoken with that were also at that event have challenged his claim.

Maybe some statistics wouldn`t hurt either:

http://www.sabcnews.com/sabcnews/analysts-advice-south-africans-to-spend-wisely-following-recession/

Parker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 53475
  • He Sees The Stormy Anger Of The World
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #133 on: September 05, 2018, 12:52:12 PM »
SA is not the country it was under white people - it is going downhill, Arnold was right saying country will go to shit once the blacks get ahold of it. Rotten and forgotten...

DION NISSENBAUM: Sure. I spoke with Rick Wayne a few weeks ago and he’s another African body builder who works here in the United States as black body builder. And he is actually been fairly close friend of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s over the decades. And met him when he was a young man who was a fairly staunch defender of the Apartheid system in South Africa. Mr. Wayne told me that Arnold Schwarzenegger told him that he believed that if the white regime turned the country over to the blacks they would run it into the ground. Now, I did actually speak with Robby Robinson last week about these allegations, which I think are more disturbing. And at this point I would like to say that I have yet to find people that can verify that story that apparently happened in a banquet room with a large number of people. So if true, I do think that is disturbing. At this point the people that I have spoken with that were also at that event have challenged his claim.

Maybe some statistics wouldn`t hurt either:

http://www.sabcnews.com/sabcnews/analysts-advice-south-africans-to-spend-wisely-following-recession/

Rick Wayne is Caribbean, not African.

MorganSA

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
  • Benching 19 years, still lead with shoulders
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #134 on: September 06, 2018, 10:04:01 AM »
Conker. SA is not going forward, or prospering, or whatever the fuck other term you may have. We are doing very, very badly for a long time now, and food is expensive and about to become more so, to a scary extent. I have no idea what our esport capacity as an agricultural nation is, but i think it may be low enough that your proposed portion of the GDP is correct. We all still need to eat here, and are a bit worried about shit. Not just us, white cappeeteeleest monopoleests, everyone. I have no idea if you believe your utopian view of this, I really hope not. It is nowhere like that. your stats are shit, we are one of the poorest performing countries  in africa, are being raped by politicians so evil it is scary, every-fucking-one is worried, and soon, I shit you not, we will be on food aid, from imperialist devils.

Play the long game. Two years. Come back to this thread and review your predictions.

In other matters, holy fuck I am impressed by the depths of understanding that I read on this shit on getbig. Literally, there are levels of analysis that are not even touched on in our popular press and chinese internet

Oh, Conker. Lots of bleck pipool are going to die. Like every encounter here before. Do you have any idea how many battles the ANC actually won during the border war, during which 2 million cubans and russians assisted? None. All those old boers, are still around. Personally, I am fucking keen as hell for shit to go down, just worried about my family a bit away. But otherwise, please, bring the dance, its been a while since my feet were in blood.

Conker

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3189
  • looks like you went for the overcooked potato look
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #135 on: September 06, 2018, 11:12:09 AM »
i'm not naive enough to think SA is some kind of utopia, i'm well aware that in places it's very dangerous with very high crime levels. but if it's a choice between the apartheid system that went before and the ANC the latter is obviously a zillion times better for the majority.

and whatever you may think, SA is in the top two economies in africa and even per capita it is in the top 2 or 3. it may well be a case of 2 steps forward and 1 step back but since the end of apartheid the country has come on leaps and bounds and regardless of all the doom and gloom stories it will continue to steadily progress.

ok, lets revisit this thread in 2 years time and see what's up then .i doubt much will have changed in that time, and then lets revisit it again in 10 years and see where things are then.


Thin Lizzy

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18452
  • It’s all a fraud
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #136 on: September 06, 2018, 11:36:53 AM »
Yeah, sounds like they’re doing great over there:


https://tradingeconomics.com/south-africa/unemployment-rate

South Africa Jobless Rate Rises to 27.2% in Q2

Conker

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3189
  • looks like you went for the overcooked potato look
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #137 on: September 06, 2018, 12:42:36 PM »
for a developing country that's not an unusually high level.

Thin Lizzy

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18452
  • It’s all a fraud
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #138 on: September 06, 2018, 01:49:07 PM »
If you look at the Historical data , unemployment is on a 10 year uptrend. Hard to take anything positive out of that. And then there’s this:



https://www-bloomberg-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-09-04/south-africa-s-rand-extends-decline-as-economy-enters-recession?amp_js_v=0.1&usqp=mq331AQGCAEoATgA#origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&prerenderSize=1&visibilityState=visible&paddingTop=54&p2r=0&horizontalScrolling=0&csi=1&aoh=15362667134591&viewerUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Famp%2Fs%2Fwww.bloomberg.com%2Famp%2Fnews%2Farticles%2F2018-09-04%2Fsouth-africa-s-rand-extends-decline-as-economy-enters-recession&history=1&storage=1&cid=1&cap=swipe%2CnavigateTo%2Ccid%2Cfragment%2CreplaceUrl

Rand Tumbles With Bonds as S. Africa Recession Hits Markets
September 4, 2018, 5:37 AM EDT
      Currency weakens as much as 3.4 percent; CDS spreads jump
      GDP contracted an annualized 0.7 percent in the second quarter

“Equities, bonds, rands... It’s awful,” said Abri du Plessis, a portfolio manager at Gryphon Asset Management Ltd. in Cape Town. “I’m struggling to see any light. There is now a distinct possibility that there will be a downgrade by year-end and we won’t see the end of it for South Africa’s markets.”

OlympiaGym

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2022
  • they/them/their
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #139 on: September 06, 2018, 02:05:16 PM »
This is of course common sense. Now, who will they look to help them out and for money? You know the answer.

Please tell us, Uncle Tom.

Griffith

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8848
  • .......
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #140 on: September 06, 2018, 02:35:21 PM »
If you look at the Historical data , unemployment is on a 10 year uptrend. Hard to take anything positive out of that. And then there’s this:



https://www-bloomberg-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-09-04/south-africa-s-rand-extends-decline-as-economy-enters-recession?amp_js_v=0.1&usqp=mq331AQGCAEoATgA#origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&prerenderSize=1&visibilityState=visible&paddingTop=54&p2r=0&horizontalScrolling=0&csi=1&aoh=15362667134591&viewerUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Famp%2Fs%2Fwww.bloomberg.com%2Famp%2Fnews%2Farticles%2F2018-09-04%2Fsouth-africa-s-rand-extends-decline-as-economy-enters-recession&history=1&storage=1&cid=1&cap=swipe%2CnavigateTo%2Ccid%2Cfragment%2CreplaceUrl

Rand Tumbles With Bonds as S. Africa Recession Hits Markets
September 4, 2018, 5:37 AM EDT
      Currency weakens as much as 3.4 percent; CDS spreads jump
      GDP contracted an annualized 0.7 percent in the second quarter

“Equities, bonds, rands... It’s awful,” said Abri du Plessis, a portfolio manager at Gryphon Asset Management Ltd. in Cape Town. “I’m struggling to see any light. There is now a distinct possibility that there will be a downgrade by year-end and we won’t see the end of it for South Africa’s markets.”

Unemployment is now the highest in history.

If there's another downgrade by the ratings agencies, the currency will be in junk status. This would mean the cost of government debt significantly increases and certain international investments would no longer be able to be invested in the country due to junk status.

In 6 months, the currency has already lost 30 % of its value.

MorganSA

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
  • Benching 19 years, still lead with shoulders
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #141 on: September 07, 2018, 09:57:10 AM »
"but if it's a choice between the apartheid system that went before and the ANC the latter is obviously a zillion times better for the majority.

and whatever you may think, SA is in the top two economies in africa and even per capita it is in the top 2 or 3. it may well be a case of 2 steps forward and 1 step back but since the end of apartheid the country has come on leaps and bounds and regardless of all the doom and gloom stories it will continue to steadily progress."

Conker, I agree with you on that, the country is a better place since apartheid was scrapped. As I have said before, I knew at age 10 that what was happening was very wrong, and said so from then on. I returned to SA full of the hope that was valid, sort of , at that time. The country is doing well, in African terms, except I think a good few are not in recession. However, it should be a hell of a lot better. The issue here is not: white monopolist wealth......its how many godamn sickeningly poor, like you cant understand, black people there are right now, I think , maybe more than apartheid. It should not be like that, and if it is, the publicly visible corruption should not be happening. It is evil. It's not even racist, it's directed at everyone, thoughtlessly, based on personal goals that are nowhere near socialist. Man, almost every one of the guys you hear about, Julius, Thabo, Cyril....they are wearing about 300 000 rand of watch and suit during each sound clip. I knew it was wrong, I wanted to change it, the same way I should want to change it now, but I am old.

I am suprised I am saying this., and am probably just shattered after a long ass Friday, but you seem like an individual who presents what seem like researched, considered arguments. Apart from the fact that you would kick my ass down a street, which we both know wouldn't happen as if we were ever to meet we would end up getting drunk in heated political debate and then fighting. You have handled the vitriol of this board, mine included, with some fair calmness, sometimes, in some recent answers. It also seems that you have your own insight into the situation which you expect to be able to present without personal attack. I appreciate that, as it is discussion and often leads to me learning shit.

Have a fairly well researched link. If you don't approve of the authors, please be aware that it is a lot better that hearing about : white mans lightning, or how the recent drought were the effects of white monopolist capital and apartheid:

https://www.afriforum.co.za/wp-content/uploads/20180423-AfriForum-Land-and-land-reform-Draft-2-compressed-1.pdf

MorganSA

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
  • Benching 19 years, still lead with shoulders
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #142 on: September 07, 2018, 10:16:07 AM »
When the abbreviated version of this was presented to parliament during public hearing, the reaction was quite emotionally based, there was actually no refutation of any of the presented facts (except to call it hogwash). The speaker replied that all the arguments put before him were strawman argument. At which point, I shit you not, an honourable member stood up and raised an objection at being called a straw man.

Just saying, this is the 10 minute presentation:

Presentation to Constitutional Review Committee

 6 September 2018

 Ernst Roets

 

Fifteen years ago, the South African government accepted David Rakgase’s offer to buy the farm that he was renting from them. To this very day the South African government has been unable to transfer ownership to his name.

Earlier this year Akkerland Boerdery was served with an ejectment order by the Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform and told that they had seven days to vacate their farms at a compensation of 10% of market value. This, to further Chinese interests in South Africa.

This week, AfriForum had to obtain an urgent application in the High Court to compel the South African Police Service to act against land invaders on the land of a Gauteng farmer, Dr. Motodi Maserumule. The Police simply refused to open Maserumule’s case.

Mr Chairperson, expropriation without compensation or below market value shows disrespect for property rights as a basic human right. I only have ten minutes, so I will keep it short and to the point. In my presentation, I will:

Refer to the ideological goals of the ANC alliance;
Dispel the historical fallacy that serves as motivation for expropriation without compensation;
Explain why willing buyer, willing seller has failed;
Why this policy would be catastrophic; and
Why the so-called “hunger for land” is a fabrication of the ANC/EFF alliance.
NDR

The ANC and its alliance partners are rooted in Marxism-Leninism. According to its own strategy and tactics documents, the movement believes in a national democratic revolution, which implies that as much power must be centralised in the state as is permissible by the balance of forces, so that the state mechanisms can be used to further the goals of the revolution, which is to move South Africa down the path of socialism, eventually to create a communist utopia. That is why disastrous policies like those of the Soviet Union, Communist China, Cuba, Cambodia, Zimbabwe and Venezuela are frequently venerated by the ANC/EFF alliance, while the policies that have created the world’s wealthiest economies and most harmonious societies are depicted as racist, oppressive policies.

This is why upcoming black farmers are complaining that they do not get support from government. This is why already 23% of people in South Africa live on state-owned land and half of them are complaining about the quality of this land. This is why only 6% of all land that was acquired by the current government has since been transferred from state ownership to private ownership.

History

It is regularly argued – and especially in this House – that “whites stole the land”. This is the single biggest historical fallacy of our time. There are three ways in which white people acquired land, namely:

The settlement on empty land;
The purchase of land through treaties, cooperation and agreements; and
The most controversial, but least significant, by conquest.
Then, of course, there was legislation such as the Natives Land Act of 1913 and the Group Areas Act of 1950. These injustices must be dealt with, but they must be dealt with specifically, not used to construct grand false narratives or to advance new racist policies.

If, however, it is your argument – as we have heard – that ownership of land by whites should be regarded as illegitimate, because Africa is the black people’s continent, then you should be prepared to join forces with right-wing fascists in Europe who argue that Europe is the white people’s continent and that there is no place for black people in Europe. If you argue that white people in Africa shouldn’t receive equal treatment, but the rights of black people in Europe should be protected, then you are nothing other than a racist hypocrite.

Corruption

Government has already spent more than R50 billion on land reform and has very little to show for it. The Motlanthe Commission found that a major barrier to effective land reform is government inefficiency and corruption. About 5% of agricultural land is available in the market for purchase every year. If government had only spent that money on purchasing farms, it would have bought out half of the country’s farms by now. But this approach wouldn’t comply with the ideals of the National Democratic Revolution, which is why the ANC/EFF alliance prefers a government bureaucracy through which it can exploit complicated processes to enrich itself at the expense of the people.

Economics

The debate about land reform comes at a time when government could least afford to lose investor confidence. Investment certainty leads to capital accumulation, which leads to more employment and higher productivity. An assault on private property leads to investment uncertainty and to economic decline.

In 2015, for the first time on record, South Africans began investing more abroad than foreigners were investing in South Africa – a sure sign of a loss of investor confidence.

Claiming that property rights would be eroded and that economic freedom would be compromised in a way that would enhance economic development is like claiming that KFC would be expanded in a way that would ensure that chickens would prosper.

Those who are calling for the erosion of property rights have not been able to provide any evidence on why a more aggressive implementation of an already failed policy would lead to anything other than a more aggressive failure. This is Albert Einstein’s definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results. Christopher Hitchens said that whatever is asserted without evidence should be dismissed without evidence. We are now being called to comment on expropriation without compensation despite the glaring fact that no evidence has been provided as to why this would yield positive results in the first place.

But, the gratification that the ANC/EFF alliance gets from hurting the middle class and the wealthy outweighs the desire to uplift poor people. The problem, however, is that expropriation and the consequential economic collapse will hurt poor people more than wealthy people who will simply leave the country, in which case you would not only have created a food shortage for all South Africa, but in which case you would also lose your tax base.

Hunger for land

All available evidence indicates that the hunger for agricultural or rural land in South Africa is largely a myth:

Of all the land claims to date, 59% were filed in urban areas.
Of all the land grabs in recent years, 84% were in urban areas.
South Africans, but black South Africans in particular, are urbanising at a rapid pace.
Of all the people who have taken the effort to file land claims, 93% have indicated that they would rather have money than land.
A recent poll by the Institute of Race Relations found that only 1% of people in South Africa believe that more land reform would improve their lives, and 0,6% regarded land reform as South Africa’s most serious unresolved problem.
Conclusion

We should not let this issue be derailed into a racial issue. Unfortunately, the President has already done so when he used the words “our people” to refer to black people. The Deputy President did so when he threatened with a “violent takeover” if white people didn’t voluntarily hand over their land to black people. Minister of Cooperative Government and Traditional Affairs, Zweli Mkhize, did so when he said that no property of any black person or black group would be expropriated.

It has become a popular pastime for members of this House to blame every white person for the crimes of every other white person. Now imagine if we had blamed every black person for the crimes of every other black person. If we were consistent in how we evaluate and contextualise history, white people would make claims like “black people are murderers”, only on the basis that some black people have committed the crime of murder, or that black people had to pay reparations for the Bloukrans and Weenen massacres, or the extermination of the Van Rensburg Trek. We would all agree that such claims would be regarded as grossly racist and intolerably unfair. And I am convinced that those of you who call for reparations most aggressively do not even know about the Bloukrans and Weenen massacres or the Van Rensburg Trek. Why? Because you are drunk on ideology. It is an ideology not based on historic accuracy, but a desperate attempt to ferment racial hatred and division with the real aim of advancing state power and hopeless socialism under the banner of “corrective measures”.

Yes, you are drunk on ideology – the ideology of the obviously failing National Democratic Revolution. You are drunk on power – since every decision you make is an attempt to gather more power and control into your hands. You are drunk on hatred and contempt – not only for white people, but for the poorest South Africans who suffer daily under your policies and will suffer even more if you continue to destroy the economy and sow hatred and division.

Thank you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 this is the parliamentary response:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ANC MP Moloko Maila said the argument that whites settled on empty land was the "biggest hogwash" he had ever heard.

'Deep anger'

IFP MP Elphas Buthelezi asked Roets if his assertions were based on research or on a "deep anger you have for the ANC and EFF".

"You have taken everything that belongs to us," EFF MP Tebogo Mokwele said. "That is why you are so arrogant to us. You think we are inhuman."

"Let me tell you my brother from another mother, we are going to take the land, whether you like it or not," she said.

Mncedisi Filtane of the UDM, who have long mooted the idea of an agricultural Codesa, said Roets' presentation hardened his attitude.

"Maybe we don't need a Codesa."

He said a constitutional amendment must be sped up.

"We are wasting time talking. There was no talking 400 years ago, people were killed.

"This talk is a waste of time with characters like this in South Africa!"

Committee co-chairperson Lewis Nzimande pointed out that the committee's process would continue.

The usually jocular Filtane left the committee room later when Roets responded.

"Don't come here and misrepresent facts!" ANC MP Madipoane Mothapo said, adding that Roets displayed "sheer insanity and drunkenness on hatred".

EFF chief whip Floyd Shivambu said the committee should not be "agitated by racist Afrikaner children".

He said the "racist kids from Pretoria" followed the CRC to its public hearings in an attempt to collapse it.

"If you're threatening us with war, we are ready," Shivambu said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2018-09-07-day-4-mps-hear-of-rands-and-cents-and-uncertainty-in-the-expropriation-debate/

War was one of the undertakings made if traditional leaders were touched on their land. Communal land must not be subject to any expropriation, but instead, land should be transferred and registered to the traditional councils under traditional leaders, argued the National House of Traditional Leaders (NHTL). And there should be steps against community property associations (CPAs) because these were “detrimental” and “brought serious challenges to social cohesion…”

Parker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 53475
  • He Sees The Stormy Anger Of The World
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #143 on: September 07, 2018, 10:38:43 AM »
Please tell us, Dad
Son, if you can’t figure it out, then I think I’ve wasted too much money on your schoolin’.

MorganSA

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
  • Benching 19 years, still lead with shoulders
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #144 on: September 07, 2018, 12:34:05 PM »
Very sorry for the wall of text, but Mr. Roets spoke well enough to frame most of the argument in acceptable terms, it seems an indication of how far I think South Africa is off a worthy path by the context of the answers. Would Madiba say that?

Again, the level of interest and thought behind the replies on this topic is really, really surprising. Mostly, I have no idea why anyone gives a true shit about us here, let alone have fresh insight to native ears.

Man, whatever the opinions or stats or feelings, this is not going as it should under a government looking for change for it's people.

And Conker, I await your thoughts. I do genuinely expect you to see the complete lack of logic in any of the responses. There is far more detail of the event on youtube, but I think it is summed up pretty well by the sound bite quotes. Those were the well thought out responses, above objecting to being composed of dried grass sheaths.

Except for that of the puppet DA chicky who did full sympathy play, without any refutation of facts (a constant theme). Fuck. All. SA. Politicians. They are all as filthy as each other, to a local level, and at that last fact is from my personal knowledge. Fuck them all, voting for any of them is pretty much the same as being asked : who is going to come in your mouth once a week for the next 4 years: your mom, your sister or your dad? Any sane person would choose to fuck the choice, fuck the idea. That's what I have done. The Gupta brothers were handed my first and only ever political participation, in the form of a vote, and looted hundreds, fucking hundreds, of billions of rands. This was at the hands of a president who did not finish high school. There are big, expensive: State capture , hearings going on right now. No one will ever do time. Ever.

Why the fuck do people even care about this shitshow? The end  is going to have very, very little impact on most things in the world, except South Africans. We all here think it's so hectic: oh fuck no, billions of rands looted, so much money. It is nothing, nothing compared to what could be looted, if forward thinking policies were applied to this resource rich country. When we blip out, it's business as usual. We are , monetarily, nothing in the world. I cannot believe how small our GDP is, like beneath that of London or Spain, and the country is very, very rich in resources and huge.

Thank you anyway, we are humans here in SA, all of us, and this human is bloody glad at least some people are looking this way.

Griffith

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8848
  • .......
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #145 on: September 07, 2018, 01:28:09 PM »

This shows footage of some of Afriforum's speech in parliament and the reply by the EFF.



Griffith

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8848
  • .......
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #146 on: September 08, 2018, 07:50:54 AM »
The vast majority of 'redistributed' land in South Africa now lies in ruin. There also a lot of attacks on farm animals, including poisoning.

https://www.wnd.com/2018/08/this-is-what-land-reform-looks-like-in-south-africa/

Farmers Weekly used to be packed with pitiful accounts of cows poisoned with exotic substances, battered with heavy metal bars, writhing in agony for hours before being found by a distraught farmer.

“Since the end of apartheid in 1994, when multi-racial elections were held,” wrote Dan McDougal of the London Times, millions of “acres of productive farmland have been transferred to black ownership. Much of it is now lying fallow, creating no economic benefit for the nation or its new owners.”

South Africa has become a net importer of food for the first time in its history.

“My visit to Mpumalanga came immediately after crossing the frontier from Zimbabwe,” attests Aidan Hartley, also of the Times, “and what struck me was how similar the landscapes were after redistribution had taken place. Once-productive maize fields now grow only weeds. Citrus orchards are dying, their valuable fruit rotting on the branches. Machinery lies about rusting. Irrigation pipes have been looted and farm sheds are derelict and stripped of roofing. Windbreak trees have been hacked down and roads are potholed.”

Without exception, splendid enterprises that fed the country many times over have been reduced to “subsistence operations with a few mangy cattle and the odd mealie patch.” (Mealie is Afrikaans for “maize,” deriving, apparently, from the Portuguese word milho.)

In even the best-case scenario, farms belonging to the whites who feed the country and produce surpluses are being handed over to subsistence farmers who can barely feed themselves.


Thin Lizzy

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18452
  • It’s all a fraud
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #147 on: September 08, 2018, 08:39:28 AM »
The vast majority of 'redistributed' land in South Africa now lies in ruin.


Gee, what a surprise.

chrisbro

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 484
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #148 on: September 08, 2018, 09:56:46 AM »

Gee, what a surprise.
yes shocking. The White man gave these savages a life. work, clothes Food to eat..hell we even tried to educate them. Still killing & raping cutting off clits.  ::)

Thin Lizzy

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18452
  • It’s all a fraud
Re: South Africa's top diplomat slams Trump tweet as 'right-wing ideology'
« Reply #149 on: September 08, 2018, 01:37:46 PM »
yes shocking. The White man gave these savages a life. work, clothes Food to eat..hell we even tried to educate them. Still killing & raping cutting off clits.  ::)

I’m sure they’ll be a new excuse unleashed which absolves them of any culpability for these problems. My guess it will be that Whitey didn’t give them enough money.