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Author Topic: Articles about ATHEISM and SCIENCE and against RELIGION.  (Read 3732 times)
Johnny Apollo
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« on: April 14, 2006, 08:44:05 AM »

Since there is a thread with Articles about Religion and other nonsense I thought I'd post a thread for articles about Atheism, Science and Against Religion.

Note, This is not a debate therefor I'm not posting articles in response to debates. I am against posting non-secular articles as responses to debates and not providing a debate in your own words. The only articles I respond to in debates are articles that are specific sources for claims you made during your own debate and that are secular without any affiliation to any religion.

I am posting links to atricles and links about atheism for those interested in reading material about science, freethinking and atheism and against religion.


Atheism Articles

List of atheists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists

Criticism of religion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_religion

Scientific skepticism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_skepticism

Bill Maher critiques intelligent design(VIDEO)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eijI5PEiy0c&search=Intelligent%20Design

Did a historical Jesus exist?

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

Hitler's Christianity

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

THOMAS JEFFERSON ON CHRISTIANITY & RELIGION

http://www.nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm

THE PROBLEMS WITH ISLAM(Contains several articles)

http://www.nobeliefs.com/islam.htm

List of common fallacies

http://www.nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm

A MASSIVE list of creationist and christian claims and refuting all of them(Great source for beginners)

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html

Infidel Guy radio show(Payment Subscription required for those interested. You can hear a masive list of debates between christians and scientists and interviews of scientists and historians and theologians)

http://www.infidelguy.com/index.php

On Defending Atheism

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theodore_drange/defending.html

Why Atheism?

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/WhyAtheism.htm

Arguments for atheism

http://freethought.freeservers.com/reason/rationalview.html

List of transcripts of debates between atheists and religious

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/debates/

The dragon in my garage(By the famous late Carl Sagan)

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Dragon.htm


That's all for right now i'll post more on Science later.
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Butterbean
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2006, 12:47:15 PM »

Religion and other nonsense

If you consider "religion etc." nonsense, why would you spend hours thinking and "posting" about it? Huh
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2006, 01:43:09 PM »

If you consider "religion etc." nonsense, why would you spend hours thinking and "posting" about it? Huh

I asked him. He claims he's here to debate.

He later said not debate but DESTROY our religious faith.  Undecided

It's not working out very well for him though.

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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2006, 12:25:41 AM »

That link about Hitler and christianity is pretty ridiculous.  He in fact hated the catholic church and other churches but realized so many people were christian in germany that he had to pay lip service to being a christian in his speeches and propaganda. 
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Johnny Apollo
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2006, 07:55:59 AM »

That link about Hitler and christianity is pretty ridiculous.  He in fact hated the catholic church and other churches but realized so many people were christian in germany that he had to pay lip service to being a christian in his speeches and propaganda. 


In fact that link explains all of that if you would of read it.


Quote
Myth 2: Hitler pretended his Christianity only for political purposes

This one represents one of the most persistent constructions about Hitler's Christianity. Revealingly, proponents of this myth never provide evidence for this hypothesis. If he, indeed, pretended himself as a Christian, then on what evidential material does it stand on? If Hitler acted as a pretend Christian, then were does he disown his belief in Christ? Does he write in his private notes that he used religion only for political purposes? Did any of his close associates or friends think so? Where?

Of course Hitler did try to use political force to control Christianity and he tried to establish a unified Reich Christian Church, but this only supports his stand on his view of "positive Christianity" as described in the Nazi party platform (their version of a constitution). And yes, he criticized the Catholic and Protestant hierarchy, but so what? So do Popes and Protestant leaders. Martin Luther himself strongly condemned the Catholic religion and thought of it as the work of the Devil.

I suspect that those who propagate this myth rely on mainly one source: the dubious reliability of Hitler's table talk (a second-hand source that allegedly records the words of Hitler). The table-talk got edited by the anti-Catholic Martin Bormann (Hitler's secretary) and describes political views against the hierarchy of orthodox Christianity (just as Bormann would have liked) but even here, Hitler never speaks against Jesus Christ, but rather in favor of him. (See Hitler's table talk and other extraneous sources).

What obliterates this theory comes from the fact that Hitler continued to express his "positive" Christian views, well after his rise to power. If, indeed, he needed Christianity only for political purposes, then why-oh-why does he continue with the charade after he has established himself as absolute dictator?

But just for the sake of argument, lets pretend that Hitler really did pretend his Christianity; that his sole aim went to politically winning over German Christians so that he could gain their confidence. How in the world does that improve your argument in protecting Christianity from Hitler? If that proved the case, then who should get the blame, Hitler or the gullible Christian German citizens who believed him? And what does that say for the integrity of Christianity if the most Christianized country in the world could not distinguish a member of their own belief system? Think about it. If the most pious Christians and clergymen could not tell if Hitler practiced false or "real" Christianity, then how in the world could anyone tell? I submit that the only way to tell comes from the very words from those who make the claim. Indeed, this constitutes the very flaw of any religion because there never has existed a testable way to determine the truthfulness of a belief in the supernatural. And if you cannot tell by the words of your fellow Christians, then anyone with minimal acting talent can deceive anyone, including monks, bishops, or popes. In fact, monks, bishops and popes themselves, could fall prey to falsehood. I submit to you that a false Christian and a real Christian makes absolutely no difference. Why? Because if I have it right (and I think I do) then Christianity never represented reality, thus an honest believing Christian and a dishonest believing Christian fall on equal turf: they both have it wrong, and they both practice falsehoods!

The only evidence we have, or could ever have, about people who call themselves Christian comes from the very confession of those making the claim. And since Hitler makes his claim to Christianity abundantly and clearly, we can only rely on his claim, regardless of whether he actually believed in Christ or not. False Christianity has as just much validity as any claim to Christianity, even if you could prove dishonesty.

But regardless of how you view a person's claim to their religion, to say Hitler used Christianity only for political forces has absolutely no historical basis to back it up. To simply rely on belief or opinion says absolutely nothing about historical fact.

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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2006, 12:11:49 AM »

oh i see well in that case when i have more time i will read it
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Johnny Apollo
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2006, 05:40:32 AM »

oh i see well in that case when i have more time i will read it


Hitler may of exploited christianity but he was indeed a devout catholic.
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2006, 11:45:16 PM »

if you think hitler was a devout catholic you are out of your mind and have no credibility whatsoever.  Im glad i no longer have to pay any attention to you.

Try reading Toland's autobio on him, or The Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich, or Albert Speers Inside teh 3rd Reich, any book on him or nazi germany and you will see in no way shape or form he was a devout catholic. 
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2006, 03:52:05 AM »

if you think hitler was a devout catholic you are out of your mind and have no credibility whatsoever.  Im glad i no longer have to pay any attention to you.

Try reading Toland's autobio on him, or The Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich, or Albert Speers Inside teh 3rd Reich, any book on him or nazi germany and you will see in no way shape or form he was a devout catholic. 

Actually, I think Johnny may be on to something.

From what I've read the Caucasian supremacy garbage is based on a twisted view of Christianity.

Besides, even Satan can quote the scripture to suit his own needs.

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Johnny Apollo
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2006, 06:57:33 AM »

if you think hitler was a devout catholic you are out of your mind and have no credibility whatsoever.  Im glad i no longer have to pay any attention to you.

Try reading Toland's autobio on him, or The Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich, or Albert Speers Inside teh 3rd Reich, any book on him or nazi germany and you will see in no way shape or form he was a devout catholic. 


You've got not evidence and I have plenty.

Hitler installed "Got mit uns" on the weapons and belt buckles of all of his soldiers.

Hitler mentioned "God" and christianity and Jesus frequently in his speeches.

Hitler praised "God" in his "Mein Kampf".

There is no evidence Hitler wasn't a catholic.

Hitler went to a monastery school.

Hitler's goal was to become a priest when he was a child.

Most of Hitlers philosophy stems from the new testament.


Quote
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2006, 11:32:46 AM »

A devout Catholic would go to Church regularly and receive the Sacraments.  A devount Catholic would not lie or wage wars of aggression.  A devout Catholic would not try to exterminate whole races of human beings.  A devout Catholic would certainly not commit suicide, as it is a MORTAL sin.   A devout Catholic would not pass laws on sterilization and eugenics. 


It is true part of the Caucasian supremacy philosophy stemmed from some twisted versions of the New Testament, but to say Hitler got most of his philosophy from the new testament is a pretty huge stretch.   He got most of his from rascist theories and philosophers of the era, and his personal life experiences. 

Pope Pius XII described National Socialism as "the arrogant apostascy from Jesus Christ, the denial of His doctrine and His work of redemption, the cult of violence, the idolatry of race and blood, the overthrow of human liberty and dignity."
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Johnny Apollo
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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2006, 08:01:03 AM »

A devout Catholic would go to Church regularly and receive the Sacraments.  A devount Catholic would not lie or wage wars of aggression.  A devout Catholic would not try to exterminate whole races of human beings.  A devout Catholic would certainly not commit suicide, as it is a MORTAL sin.   A devout Catholic would not pass laws on sterilization and eugenics. 


It is true part of the Caucasian supremacy philosophy stemmed from some twisted versions of the New Testament, but to say Hitler got most of his philosophy from the new testament is a pretty huge stretch.   He got most of his from rascist theories and philosophers of the era, and his personal life experiences. 

Pope Pius XII described National Socialism as "the arrogant apostascy from Jesus Christ, the denial of His doctrine and His work of redemption, the cult of violence, the idolatry of race and blood, the overthrow of human liberty and dignity."


Now this is the argument where YOU define christianity in such away Hitler could not possibly be a christian,Right? Roll Eyes

The fact of the matter is it's irrelevant what makes a catholic. The point is Hitler considered himself a devout catholic. He was also completly supported by the German Church.

1.Just to point a few things out...Hitler DID go to church regularly even when he was Feuhrer.
2.Catholics throughout history have waged wars. I guess the Crusaders weren't really catholics? Roll Eyes
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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2006, 11:53:34 PM »

crusaders waged war on muslims in the holy land.  not on a catholic neighbor like france.

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« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2006, 12:53:39 AM »

hitler did not go to church regularly.  and to say the Nazi party were completed supported by the german church is a gross exageration of the reality of the situation.
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« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2006, 03:24:01 PM »

Any of hitlers association with any church was soley for political reasons.


Quote
Most of Hitlers philosophy stems from the new testament.

Such as?

Extermination of jews

Using violence to subdue groups of people speaking out against oppressive policies?

Did he get his main stuff from Jesus?

Hitler was at the right place at the right time when he came to power. He seized on an opportunity (a favoarable set of circimstances allowing a person to realize a goal). That's all.  After getting into power and starting WW2 his bumbling ineptness and complete stupidity cost him a war he could have won.

And the catholic church being the whores they are.  They helped fugitive nazis escape germany at the end of the war in exchange for their support of catholism. 

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Johnny Apollo
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« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2006, 05:09:05 PM »

Any of hitlers association with any church was soley for political reasons.


Ok...So prove it.


Such as?

Extermination of jews

Using violence to subdue groups of people speaking out against oppressive policies?

Did he get his main stuff from Jesus?

And the catholic church being the whores they are.  They helped fugitive nazis escape germany at the end of the war in exchange for their support of catholism. 

Yes,
Yes,
Yes and Yes.
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