Author Topic: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare  (Read 3152 times)

Thin Lizzy

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Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« on: December 18, 2018, 02:43:05 PM »
 This is what we need to strive towards here: 😉


Little improvement in number of patients waiting 24 hours in ERs: stats – Montreal Gazette


https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/little-improvement-in-number-of-patients-waiting-24-hours-in-ers-stats

OzmO

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2018, 03:00:30 PM »
This is what we need to strive towards here: 😉


Little improvement in number of patients waiting 24 hours in ERs: stats – Montreal Gazette


https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/little-improvement-in-number-of-patients-waiting-24-hours-in-ers-stats

I have quite a lot of family who live in Canada.  30+ Aunts, uncles, cousins etc. many of who have lived there since 1983.  While they say the system isn't perfect, it meets their needs and don't have any major complaints.  An over loaded ER isn't good and should be fixed, however, its hardly an example of why Canada's system is bad, unless you are brainwashed sucking on the medical industry's propaganda nipple. 

Our system is out of control.  While, making like Canada isn't likely the best solution, admitting we have powerful medical industry that's essentially over charging people every way they can is a good place to start to fix it.   

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2018, 03:27:49 PM »
I have quite a lot of family who live in Canada.  30+ Aunts, uncles, cousins etc. many of who have lived there since 1983.  While they say the system isn't perfect, it meets their needs and don't have any major complaints.  An over loaded ER isn't good and should be fixed, however, its hardly an example of why Canada's system is bad, unless you are brainwashed sucking on the medical industry's propaganda nipple.  

Our system is out of control.  While, making like Canada isn't likely the best solution, admitting we have powerful medical industry that's essentially over charging people every way they can is a good place to start to fix it.  

How good would the Canadian system be if you didn’t have the largest economy in the world right next-door and can use it as a pressure valve?



https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-08-03/canadians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care



The problem with the American system is not that there’s not enough government there’s too much government. It pretty much needs to be gutted completely and started from scratch. Hell, We have a government medical program, Medicare, that’s bigger than the  economies of most countries.

 What we have in America is not a price system. If you go to a hospital you have no idea how much everything will cost. I once asked the chief heart surgeon of a major American hospital how much it was for heart surgery. He didn’t know.

The reason the big pharmaceutical companies got so powerful in the first place is because of excessive regulation which prevents competition.  New companies can’t afford the compliance costs.

You’re hearing same bullshit about regulating Facebook. That’s not going to create competition. It’s gonna make things worse.

Straw Man

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2018, 05:16:40 PM »
Too bad all those Canadians can't enjoy the system we have in the US where millions of people don't have any insurance at all and millions more have to pay large deductibles or have their pre-existing conditions excluded (no longer allowed thanks to Obamacare but Republicans are hard at work trying to restore that "benefit" of being excluded for a pre-existing condition)


chaos

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2018, 06:46:03 PM »
Too bad all those Canadians can't enjoy the system we have in the US where millions of people don't have any insurance at all and millions more have to pay large deductibles or have their pre-existing conditions excluded (no longer allowed thanks to Obamacare but Republicans are hard at work trying to restore that "benefit" of being excluded for a pre-existing condition)


Sorry to hear you lost your coverage. :-\
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

IroNat

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2018, 06:55:29 PM »
Too bad all those Canadians can't enjoy the system we have in the US where millions of people don't have any insurance at all and millions more have to pay large deductibles or have their pre-existing conditions excluded (no longer allowed thanks to Obamacare but Republicans are hard at work trying to restore that "benefit" of being excluded for a pre-existing condition)



This is why it's crucial to get health insurance when you are young and healthy and not wait until you are sick.

Since people are not forced to buy health insurance, many do not since they are not sick. 

Then when they do get sick they all of a sudden figure out they need health insurance.

Similar to someone finding out they are going to die soon and trying to buy life insurance. 

Forget it.  No insurance company who wants to stay in business will sell them a policy.


AbrahamG

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2018, 07:39:19 PM »
I have quite a lot of family who live in Canada.  30+ Aunts, uncles, cousins etc. many of who have lived there since 1983.  While they say the system isn't perfect, it meets their needs and don't have any major complaints.  An over loaded ER isn't good and should be fixed, however, its hardly an example of why Canada's system is bad, unless you are brainwashed sucking on the medical industry's propaganda nipple. 

Our system is out of control.  While, making like Canada isn't likely the best solution, admitting we have powerful medical industry that's essentially over charging people every way they can is a good place to start to fix it.   

There is no reason that we (America) cannot take the Canadian system and improve upon it.  Given just how exceptional we are.

Straw Man

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2018, 08:23:28 PM »
Sorry to hear you lost your coverage. :-\

weird you would draw that conclusion

actually not the weird I guess, given your other posts (such as your belief that the Fed, headed by a Trump appointee) wants to derail the economy to hurt Trump (we'll ignore the premise that another potential .25 bump in the Fed Funds rate is going to have that much impact either way)

Coach is Back!

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2018, 08:52:52 AM »
We quit dealing with insurance companies almost 2 years ago.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2018, 10:49:20 AM »
We quit dealing with insurance companies almost 2 years ago.
Do you just pay out of pocket?  How much do you save?

IroNat

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2018, 10:52:19 AM »
Paying out of pocket is ok as long as you don't have something big.

Then you are bankrupt.

It's a gamble.

What you're doing is self-insuring.  How deep are your pockets?

SOMEPARTS

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2018, 12:06:09 PM »
Pointless if you have any grasp of the demographics of each country.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2018, 03:38:57 PM »
Pointless if you have any grasp of the demographics of each country.
True.  All of these countries held up by the left for their healthcare have much smaller populations.

Coach is Back!

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2018, 04:28:32 PM »
Do you just pay out of pocket?  How much do you save?

We decided to not deal with traditional health care providers so we went with https://samaritanministries.org/


Primemuscle

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2018, 05:45:43 PM »
We quit dealing with insurance companies almost 2 years ago.

So...Does this mean you have no life insurance, auto insurance, home owners/renters or medical insurance? What about liability insurance for your business? Man, you are a sitting duck. Even if you require your clients to sign a disclaimer saying they will not bring a lawsuit against you or your business, you are open to losing everything you have. Better make plans to skip the country in the event of one or several lawsuits. Can you legally drive a car in California without auto insurance?

mazrim

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2018, 06:11:07 PM »
So...Does this mean you have no life insurance, auto insurance, home owners/renters or medical insurance? What about liability insurance for your business? Man, you are a sitting duck. Even if you require your clients to sign a disclaimer saying they will not bring a lawsuit against you or your business, you are open to losing everything you have. Better make plans to skip the country in the event of one or several lawsuits. Can you legally drive a car in California without auto insurance?
Oh, geez......

Primemuscle

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2018, 06:48:31 PM »
We decided to not deal with traditional health care providers so we went with https://samaritanministries.org/



Which sharing plan did you choose? Did you have enough savings to cover your medical costs during the 60 - 90 day waiting period. How do you pay for the exclusions such as pre-existing conditions, including diabetes? How's the non-sharable amount (deduction) for each condition of $300 - $1,500 depending on your plan choice, working out? If for example you unfortunately had 5 different conditions in a year, it looks like you would be out somewhere between $1,500 and $7,500 not counting the 10% co-pay. Most doctor office visits never reach the level of those out-of-pocket costs.

Note: the examples above are for each member enrolled.

Assuming it's just you and your wife who are members (no additional dependants) your monthly cost (premiums) is either $280 - $440. Not bad until you see what it does and doesn't cover. At least you get the addition of sharing prayers with other members.

All in all, it is an interesting concept. Hope it works out well for you and your wife.

You must have lied about your use of HRT, etc., since I doubt these are allowed under their membership guidelines and would disqualify you from membership.

When you reach the qualifying age for Medicare, your monthly costs will be reduced and your benefits will be better. Let's hope that it is still around by then.


Humble Narcissist

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2018, 03:46:04 AM »
We decided to not deal with traditional health care providers so we went with https://samaritanministries.org/


I just thought maybe you paid out of pocket.  I've known of wealthy people who just pay out of pocket and it's staggering how much the insurance companies are actually being charged.  Much cheaper to just pay up plus you can go to India and other countries and get open heart surgery from a doctor trained in American med school for like $5,000.  They did a story on 60 minutes about this a few years ago.

IroNat

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2018, 05:42:08 AM »
We decided to not deal with traditional health care providers so we went with https://samaritanministries.org/



That's just an insurance plan run by Samaritan Ministries.

Plus you have to abide by their loony lifestyle restrictions.

It's no better than the ACA, in fact it's lousy.

loco

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2018, 07:44:10 AM »
That's just an insurance plan run by Samaritan Ministries.

Plus you have to abide by their loony lifestyle restrictions.

It's no better than the ACA, in fact it's lousy.

Not necessarily.

Are Health Care Sharing Ministries A Viable Alternative To Health Insurance For Early Retirement?

https://www.caniretireyet.com/health-care-sharing-ministries-early-retirement/

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2018, 09:33:13 AM »
The reason so many people “lose” their healthcare is because of another failed intervention called employer-based health care. It was meant to be temporary but became permanent. It had the effect of tethering people to their jobs and when they were unfortunate enough to lose their job they also lost their healthcare. That needs to go to. There’s no reason for an employer to have to take care of your health.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2018, 01:50:24 PM »
The reason so many people “lose” their healthcare is because of another failed intervention called employer-based health care. It was meant to be temporary but became permanent. It had the effect of tethering people to their jobs and when they were unfortunate enough to lose their job they also lost their healthcare. That needs to go to. There’s no reason for an employer to have to take care of your health.
Yes, wasn't it during WW2 that employers started offering health insurance for employees so they wouldn't leave?  There were price controls so one company couldn't pay more than another in the same industry so companies like GM would use health insurance to lure in the best people.  By the 70's most companies were offering health insurance to their employees and that is a big reason why medicine cost so much now.

I've stayed at jobs way longer than I wanted to just because of the cost of COBRA or buying my own policy was just too expensive.  Wish they just did away with it entirely but that will never happen and socialized health care is even worse.

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2018, 02:56:14 PM »
Yes, wasn't it during WW2 that employers started offering health insurance for employees so they wouldn't leave?  There were price controls so one company couldn't pay more than another in the same industry so companies like GM would use health insurance to lure in the best people.  By the 70's most companies were offering health insurance to their employees and that is a big reason why medicine cost so much now.

I've stayed at jobs way longer than I wanted to just because of the cost of COBRA or buying my own policy was just too expensive.  Wish they just did away with it entirely but that will never happen and socialized health care is even worse.

 You pretty much nailed it. All these other programs came about as a way to deal with the problems caused by the initial intervention.

 People have a habit of assuming that when there is a problem and government gets involved that it will make the situation better, when usually the opposite is the case.

IroNat

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2018, 04:30:30 AM »
Employers were allowed to deduct health insurance to employees as a business expense.

A tax free benefit to employees.

This is at the crux of the problem and made being an MD a path to riches.

SOMEPARTS

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Re: Vaunted Canadian Heathcare
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2018, 07:05:13 PM »
Yes, wasn't it during WW2 that employers started offering health insurance for employees so they wouldn't leave?  There were price controls so one company couldn't pay more than another in the same industry so companies like GM would use health insurance to lure in the best people.  By the 70's most companies were offering health insurance to their employees and that is a big reason why medicine cost so much now.




They offered that as they were phasing out pensions in favor of 401(k) plans, which is the 1-2 punch combination that put most employee-types at a huge disadvantage of paying the most for healthcare while carrying the most risk as an investor as well.