Author Topic: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?  (Read 17431 times)

stuntmovie

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How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« on: February 10, 2019, 05:22:04 PM »
Rate Joe Weider's importance regarding Arnold's success on a scale of 1 - 5.

1 = Of no imprtance. Joe was of definitely not important.
5 = Extreme inportance. Arnold could not have done it without Joe..

AND .....

Is/was Arnold Over-rated.

1 = Yes, he has been definitely overated.
2 = Arnold was sorta over-ratred.
3 = Arnold was definitely not overrated.


ratherbebig

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2019, 05:27:41 PM »
nobody couldve done anything without joe.

without the weiders bodybuilding would be in the basement

pellius

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2019, 05:42:12 PM »
Arnold was destined for success no matter what. Without Weider it would have taken much longer as Joe provided opportunities for bbers to an extent no one else could or was willing. There would still be bbing if there was no Weider but hard to say to what extent.

As a bber Arnold was not overrated. He was head and shoulders above the rest. As a human being, he was vastly underrated. He far transcended bbing as no one else could.
Who could have predicted (other than Arnold) how great and successful he would be? Known and admired across the entire world.

LurkerNoMore

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 05:43:00 PM »
How important was Arnold for Joe's success?

myt1

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2019, 05:43:49 PM »
Rate Joe Weider's importance regarding Arnold's success on a scale of 1 - 5.

1 = Of no imprtance. Joe was of definitely not important.
5 = Extreme inportance. Arnold could not have done it without Joe..

AND .....

Is/was Arnold Over-rated.

1 = Yes, he has been definitely overated.
2 = Arnold was sorta over-ratred.
3 = Arnold was definitely not overrated.



4- Arnold would have made it either way, as his drive was too immense.  Joe was equally determined though, and was a catalyst for Arnold and the IFBB as we know it.  Flip the two people around, and I give it a 4 as well for the same reasons.

3- Not for his time, and what he meant to the growth of the sport.  Not over-rated in the least when looked at that way IMO.  He's a legend for a reason.

myt1

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2019, 05:45:12 PM »
Pellius and Lurker, I think we were all typing at the same time. :P

ratherbebig

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2019, 05:49:05 PM »
arnold was only mildly successful.

he never did have a singing career. didn't dance. didn't direct.

The Scott

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2019, 06:01:00 PM »
Rate Joe Weider's importance regarding Arnold's success on a scale of 1 - 5.

1 = Of no imprtance. Joe was of definitely not important.
5 = Extreme inportance. Arnold could not have done it without Joe..

AND .....

Is/was Arnold Over-rated.

1 = Yes, he has been definitely overated.
2 = Arnold was sorta over-ratred.
3 = Arnold was definitely not overrated.



Joe Weider was very important for bodybuilding therefor it stands to reason that he was also very important for Arnold in that he provided the opportunity for him to succeed in bodybuilding.  The Mr. Olympia gained stature because of Arnold's success.  To be honest, this was a highly symbiotic relationship and both men benefitted from one another.  I still think that Joe gave Haney 8 wins to try and teach Arnold a lesson in "humility".  Stupid Joe. Later Coleman equaled Haney but the truth of the matter is neither of them are the Oak and will forever remain in the shadow of his career. 

Arnold is far from overrated as far as bodybuilding is concerned.  He remains the best ever.  Just because Coleman and Haney have more doorstops doesn't make them better.  Those two are nothing compared to the Oak, especially so Coleman.  That Arnold went beyond bodybuilding is testimony to not only his drive to succeed but also to his charisma.  His turn as Governor and his fall from Conservatism shows that he's just another Zelig, i.e., a human chameleon that will change his appearance to suit his ego driven wants.  Coleman is a slobbering idiot and Haney a terminally "nicest guy around".  And Heath?  Fuck that idiot.

ratherbebig

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2019, 06:08:09 PM »
arnold was no bruce lee thats for sure.

bruce lee would've kicked arnolds ass.

robcguns

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2019, 06:13:42 PM »
5

3

myt1

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2019, 06:24:58 PM »
Joe Weider was very important for bodybuilding therefor it stands to reason that he was also very important for Arnold in that he provided the opportunity for him to succeed in bodybuilding.  The Mr. Olympia gained stature because of Arnold's success.  To be honest, this was a highly symbiotic relationship and both men benefitted from one another.  I still think that Joe gave Haney 8 wins to try and teach Arnold a lesson in "humility".  Stupid Joe. Later Coleman equaled Haney but the truth of the matter is neither of them are the Oak and will forever remain in the shadow of his career. 

Arnold is far from overrated as far as bodybuilding is concerned.  He remains the best ever.  Just because Coleman and Haney have more doorstops doesn't make them better.  Those two are nothing compared to the Oak, especially so Coleman.  That Arnold went beyond bodybuilding is testimony to not only his drive to succeed but also to his charisma.  His turn as Governor and his fall from Conservatism shows that he's just another Zelig, i.e., a human chameleon that will change his appearance to suit his ego driven wants.  Coleman is a slobbering idiot and Haney a terminally "nicest guy around".  And Heath?  Fuck that idiot.

Funny how you give me shit for being wordy, yet two paragraphs later you wrote what I said in 3 lines.   ;D  Seriously though, we agree more than we disagree often.  I do disagree with you about Coleman....not about his speaking, but that he was nothing compared to Arnold when purely thinking in terms of bbing.  They both took the game to a new level.

ratherbebig

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2019, 06:43:48 PM »
ronnies supplement line is far more succesful than arnolds supplement line.

arnold simply sucks at marketing. which is kinda weird because i thought he had the drive etc do accomplish anything...


The Scott

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2019, 07:37:55 PM »
Funny how you give me shit for being wordy, yet two paragraphs later you wrote what I said in 3 lines.   ;D  Seriously though, we agree more than we disagree often.  I do disagree with you about Coleman....not about his speaking, but that he was nothing compared to Arnold when purely thinking in terms of bbing.  They both took the game to a new level.

I don't give shit for being "wordy".  If I give you shit, it's because you're a typist.  And now because you "think" Coleman took bodybuilding to "a new level".

If by that you mean subterranean,  then I agree.  He's a pile of crap and deserves what is happening to him.

The Scott

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2019, 07:43:49 PM »
ronnies supplement line is far more succesful than arnolds supplement line.

arnold simply sucks at marketing. which is kinda weird because i thought he had the drive etc do accomplish anything...



With all due respect...Regarding Coleman's supplement line?  BFD and FTN, sir. 

Coleman is a fucking waste of chemicals.  Coleman's life is similar to that of Charlie's in "Flowers for Algernon".  Except Coleman has never been even remotely intelligent but instead his transformation is entirely physical.  And now that is fast disappearing.  Good riddance.

myt1

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2019, 07:47:59 PM »
I don't give shit for being "wordy".  If I give you shit, it's because you're a typist.  And now because you "think" Coleman took bodybuilding to "a new level".

If by that you mean subterranean,  then I agree.  He's a pile of crap and deserves what is happening to him.

It's GB, and all in fun.

I don't think he gave us the ideal physique, but he brought something no one ever thought they'd see.  He was an extreme mash-up of size, v-taper, vascularity, and shredded all in one.  Even though he didn't do movies like Arnold, and is even harder to understand; more people outside of bbing know who he is compared to Haney, Heath, or Zane.  Yeah Buddy!!!

oldtimer1

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2019, 07:50:23 PM »
Arnold will go down as the best bodybuilder of all time. He went on to be the highest paid movie star for a number of years. He was the Governor of California. That's an incredible career. The  bodybuilders of today look like inflated soft water bags with big guts.  Look at Arnold in 73 and 74. He was huge with a small waist. In 75 he was smaller but ripped to the bone. No bodybuilder had the career that he had. He married a Kennedy and that's American royalty.  

myt1

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2019, 08:01:59 PM »
Essentially, Joe and Arnold's coming together (no homo) set themselves, their families, and their families' families up for a long time.  I don't think either one of them ever truly believed they would ultimately achieve what they did.  With or without each other.

TheShape.

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2019, 08:15:01 PM »
Like him or hate him Arnold’s physique is still the best without question, is he a great human being though?

Vince B

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2019, 08:24:54 PM »
"Arnold, Paul and the Rewards of Crime
        Arnold and Paul Maxwell Graham have been buddies for years.  Two
days after Arnie got his first apartment in LA, Arnie invited a writer to
his place to see the proof that the Weiders had rigged the contest in
which Frank Zane had beaten him.  Paul popped out of the bedroom just
after their arrival wearing only his underpants.  Arnold complained that
all the contestants had to wear a medallion out on stage with Zane’s
picture on it.  The writer had to admit it was Frank’s body on the
medallion right down to the vein on his arm.  The writer however,
concluded from looking at the pictures,  that Zane deserved to win
because, “Arnold was just plain fat”.   Arnold could only see that he was
bigger than Zane.
        With in months, Arnie was tearing down the highway with Paul in
pursuit.  A squeal of brakes, a crash, and a dazed Arnie hauls himself out
of the car.  Paul announces to the witnesses that he is taking Arnold to
the hospital, and hurriedly leaves the scene of the accident.  Shortly
after,  the police arrived and identified the car as a stolen vehicle.
According to Bill Dreke, Arnold’s long time buddy, several days later our
Germanic Super Hero and Paul fled to Hawaii.  A federal warrant was issued
for Paul’s arrest on  1/29/69.
        In Honolulu Hawaii, FBI agent Edwin Miller and his partner flanked
the motel door, and then with a kick, the door flies open.  There stands
Paul Graham posing stark naked for Arnie who is laying on the bed wearing
only his underpants.  Paul and Arnie are cuffed and taken out of the room.
 Our usually cool under pressure hero is very upset, the feds refuse to
let him take his little blue pills with him.  According to agent Miller,
the pills were found to be the anabolic steroid, Dianabol.  For Gods sake
Arnold, tell us that beautiful body was only the result of hard work,
determination and your humble, but strict upbringing.
        In the lock up, Paul admitted everything, but swore that Arnold
had no knowledge of the car being stolen.  The FBI being only interested
in the Federal Laws that were violated did not press the issue, because
this was up to the state of California.  On Feb. 11, 1969  Paul asked for
and received a Rule 20.  This Rule 20 transferred the case #3285cd to
Hawaii Federal Court from the Central District of California for the sole
purpose of pleading  guilty.  The Grand Jury indictment was filed Feb. 5,
1969, charging Paul with 18 U. S. C. #2312,  Foreign Transportation
of=Stolen Motor Vehicle.  The indictment charged that on or about December
23, 1968,  Paul shipped a 1965 Mustang and an 1966 Mustang to Sydney,
Australia.  On April 10, 1969 Paul was sentenced to 3 years,  and on April
25, 1969 was delivered to Terminal Island , California.   On Feb. 16, 1971
after less that 2 years,  Paul Maxwell Graham was paroled, and deported to
Australia.  Under U. S. Law Paul is not allowed to return to the U. S. But
that has not stopped him.  I  personally was on the same flight from Las
Vegas with Paul and the Australian body building team in 1984.
        California, feeling that Arnold was to small a fish to go to the
expense of extraditing from Hawaii, did not pursue any State charges
against him, knowing that Paul would swear that Arnie did not know the car
was stolen.  Bill Dreke claims,  Arnold not only knew,  but was the look
out for the thief’s.
        Arnold visited Paul regularly and provided money to make his life
comfortable.  In the movie “Pumping Iron” we see Arnold posing there for
the inmates,  but they never explained how Arnie became connected with the
joint.  One inmate even asked for a kiss.  I can hear the Church Lady
saying “ Isn’t that special”.        
        After Paul got out of prison he was rewarded by the Weider
brothers  for protecting Arnold, by being given the Weider distributorship
and from the IFBB a position as Vice President in charge of Oceania
(Australia, New Zealand, and a bunch of Islands in the south pacific).  In
the two years that Paul was in jail, Joe Weider had made Arnie the center
piece of his body building magazines.  They had to protect their
investment from scandal.  Crime really did pay, and pay big.  In 1980
Arnold gave the Mr. Olympia Contest to Paul to Promote.  This contest is a
story in itself and will come later.  Of course Ben  Weider will tell you
that he did not know of his prison record until I told him,  but Paul
still rules Body Building in Australia.
If you want a gander at Paul rent “The Pirate Movie”, he is the aging
flabby body builder in the pirate crew.
On the plane coming back from Las Vegas, I found myself surrounded by the
Australian team in coach class.  Paul was traveling first class.  I asked
them if Paul was as big a crook in Australia as we hear he is.  Suddenly I
had four large hands clamped across my mouth with a whispered “Yes , but
shut up he might hear you”.  I couldn’t believe these big guys were that
afraid of that old man.  After we got to LA they called me from there
Hotel and I took them on a tour of Hollywood.  Boy did I get an ear full
of how Paul claims that Arnold owes him his career because he kept his
mouth shut and took the rap alone."

Lacy H. Rich, Jr. (213) 851-6585

pellius

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2019, 11:33:30 PM »
As I said just a few days ago, whenever Basile inserts himself into a thread everybody starts shaking their heads and the collective groans can almost be heard through the computer screen.

Everybody is shady and on the take except you. Everyone else had some corrupt angle they used to dupe everybody else and come out ahead. That's your excuse for being such an abject failure in life.

Just an angry, bitter, fat, old man.


keanu

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2019, 12:16:31 AM »
Joe helped Arnold and vice versa. Arnold was a small town kid with 2 dimes to rub together. All he had was charisma, confidence, chest, back and arms. Weider had cash, investments and businesses. Weider taught Arnold plenty on getting rich and growing the wealth. At the time before the internet, the guys running the media were keys to public acceptance. Today Arnold won't need to go the bodybuilding route or Weider. He could do it all with social media.

IRON CROSS

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2019, 12:30:07 AM »
As I said just a few days ago, whenever Basile inserts himself into a thread everybody starts shaking their heads and the collective groans can almost be heard through the computer screen.

Everybody is shady and on the take except you. Everyone else had some corrupt angle they used to dupe everybody else and come out ahead. That's your excuse for being such an abject failure in life.

Just an angry, bitter, fat, old man.





+ JELOUS old Cornuto , his horns use to be larger than horns  on Canadian moose's head  ;)

Mr.Paul Graham (& family) own great gyms , where is Safety Fats gym  ;D

Paul Graham , Rocco Oppedisano & Tony Doherty = Australian bodybuilding

Nobody ever give a f....... about Safety Fat & his never ending BS.


AGAIN: go to Youtube - Grandfather of Australian bodybuilding (3 episodes of Tony's Muscle TV)

Vince B

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2019, 12:32:32 AM »
Arnold arrived in LA in October 1968. I was there, too. Joe brought him to the states and gave him a job in the warehouse shifting pallets around. No way Arnold was going to do that.

He preferred to train then hang around the beach at Venice. Then go eat all you can at one of the local diners.

Joe Gold told Arnold not to bother owning a gym. He figured you couldn't make much in the industry. So he encouraged Arnold to buy real estate. By 1974 Arnold was a millionaire.

Yes, we all underestimated how intelligent and determined he was. How he made it in Hollywood is one of the all-time success stories. He would go to auditions and they would laugh

at him. Ordinary mortals would have given up. Not Arnold. Every criticism and defeat only motivated him to try harder. He got lucky, too, when they cast him as the Terminator.

About Joe and Arnold. Well, the truth is white guys on the covers of his magazines sold more copies. Lots of Arnold covers but few Sergio ones. There you are.

Vince B

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2019, 12:50:41 AM »


+ JELOUS old Cornuto , his horns use to be larger than horns  on Canadian moose's head  ;)

Mr.Paul Graham (& family) own great gyms , where is Safety Fats gym  ;D

Paul Graham , Rocco Oppedisano & Tony Doherty = Australian bodybuilding

Nobody ever give a f....... about Safety Fat & his never ending BS.


AGAIN: go to Youtube - Grandfather of Australian bodybuilding (3 episodes of Tony's Muscle TV)



I don't know Rocco. I wouldn't call him the Grandfather of Australian bodybuilding.

Makes me wonder who is paying you to keep posting in my threads and others trying to embarrass me.

Someone is wasting their money on you. They probably put the expenses paid to you under "stooge"!

Kwon

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Re: How Important Was Joe Weider For Arnold's Success?
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2019, 12:52:44 AM »
Rate Joe Weider's importance regarding Arnold's success on a scale of 1 - 5.

1 = Of no imprtance. Joe was of definitely not important.
5 = Extreme inportance. Arnold could not have done it without Joe..

AND .....

Is/was Arnold Over-rated.

1 = Yes, he has been definitely overated.
2 = Arnold was sorta over-ratred.
3 = Arnold was definitely not overrated.




According to the "Bigger"-movie, a lot!
Q