Sarcopenia - Age Related Muscle Loss

[Dave D]

There are a few things the scientists got wrong about bodybuilding, exercise and hypertrophy.

Remember when then had an experiment that showed full squats damaged the knees? University staff all believed this

and had athletes do quarter squats and squats to a chair or box. Turns out the sample in that experiment had damaged

knees from playing basketball on tarmac. When it was repeated they didn't find squats to be dangerous. We bodybuilders

knew that all along. So did Olympic weight lifters who seldom got sore knees and they bounced out of deep squat positions.

I don't believe they have it right about sarcopenia. Sure, if you test thousands of old men you will find that they lose size and strength.

Is it inevitable? That depends on what stress or exercise you continue to do. For example, guys who keep up long distant running

or cycling can perform well into old age. Same goes with hypertrophy. If you trigger hypertrophy in a muscle it will respond and

sarcopenia can be avoided or at least delayed for who knows how long.

The third issue is hypertrophy and recovery. Can a muscle be retrained while still growing? Or should you wait until you have recovered and adapted?

Good post.

Absolutely not. My hunch is sufficient hormones will be provided by the body if hypertrophy is stimulated.

No hormone replacement therapy for me. No supplements, either.

What's your hunch based on? I thought it's been determined age and decreased testosterone levels go hand in hand.

Why are you opposed to try? I understand why you avoid supplements, unregulated bunk.

Did you use synthetic testosterone when you competed?

[tommywishbone]

-up the dose of everything

-eat an absolute minimum of 2,500 fairly clean calories every day

-train with weights 3-4x weekly

-have sex on a regular basis... with a girl, a guy... I don't care just have sex

-compete in something- bodybuilding, powerlifting, run 10k's, men's physique. Just compete

-don't measure yourself against other old guys, measure yourself against everybody

That's how to build and hold on to muscle when you're old.  I'm old. 

[Vince B]

Good post.
What's your hunch based on? I thought it's been determined age and decreased testosterone levels go hand in hand.

Why are you opposed to try? I understand why you avoid supplements, unregulated bunk.

Did you use synthetic testosterone when you competed?

In old age we can sustain testosterone levels if we trigger hypertrophy and perhaps have an active sex life.

So why try drugs if the body provides sufficient male hormone, etc.

In the old days we avoided testosterone because of a worry about side effects.

I doubt very many bodybuilders used testosterone in the sixties and seventies.

I certainly never even contemplated using that hormone. Still not interested.

[myt1]

Good video Coach.  You plan on trying to create a YT following?  Since you have so many clients it'd be great to do some q & a, and demo vids maybe?  I really dislike the vlogging while driving thing YTers do though.  Be safe for the sake of others on the road, and yourself please.

When you got to the part about Beckles, I was pretty sure he competed into his 60's bcuz I remember it being a big deal in the mags when I was in h.s.  I went to wiki, and looks like he stopped at 62....actually won a show at 61 though  Obviously, you don't have the advantage of wiki while driving and commenting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Beckles

"Albert "Al" Beckles (born July 14, 1930) is a former IFBB pro bodybuilder and Mr Universe"

"1991   Niagara Falls Pro Invitational IFBB      1st
1991   Night of Champions IFBB      7th
1991   Olympia IFBB      DID NOT PLACE
1991   Pittsburg Pro Invitational IFBB      12th
1991   San Jose Pro Invitational IFBB      5th
1992   Chicago Pro Invitational IFBB      16th
1992   Niagara Falls Pro Invitational IFBB      8th"

[myt1]

In old age we can sustain testosterone levels if we trigger hypertrophy and perhaps have an active sex life.

So why try drugs if the body provides sufficient male hormone, etc.

In the old days we avoided testosterone because of a worry about side effects.

I doubt very many bodybuilders used testosterone in the sixties and seventies.

I certainly never even contemplated using that hormone. Still not interested.

Have you been tested to know if your theories are correct, so that you know you actually do not have Low-T levels?

[karasan]

Good video Coach.  You plan on trying to create a YT following?  Since you have so many clients it'd be great to do some q & a, and demo vids maybe?  I really dislike the vlogging while driving thing YTers do though.  Be safe for the sake of others on the road, and yourself please.

When you got to the part about Beckles, I was pretty sure he competed into his 60's bcuz I remember it being a big deal in the mags when I was in h.s.  I went to wiki, and looks like he stopped at 62....actually won a show at 61 though  Obviously, you don't have the advantage of wiki while driving and commenting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Beckles

"Albert "Al" Beckles (born July 14, 1930) is a former IFBB pro bodybuilder and Mr Universe"

"1991   Niagara Falls Pro Invitational IFBB      1st
1991   Night of Champions IFBB      7th
1991   Olympia IFBB      DID NOT PLACE
1991   Pittsburg Pro Invitational IFBB      12th
1991   San Jose Pro Invitational IFBB      5th
1992   Chicago Pro Invitational IFBB      16th
1992   Niagara Falls Pro Invitational IFBB      8th"

Probably he actually born in 1938
He and Weider magazines used his age for marketing (bbing as fountain of youth) which is not wrong if exercised in moderation.

[Coach is Back!]

Good video Coach.  You plan on trying to create a YT following?  Since you have so many clients it'd be great to do some q & a, and demo vids maybe?  I really dislike the vlogging while driving thing YTers do though.  Be safe for the sake of others on the road, and yourself please.

When you got to the part about Beckles, I was pretty sure he competed into his 60's bcuz I remember it being a big deal in the mags when I was in h.s.  I went to wiki, and looks like he stopped at 62....actually won a show at 61 though  Obviously, you don't have the advantage of wiki while driving and commenting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Beckles

"Albert "Al" Beckles (born July 14, 1930) is a former IFBB pro bodybuilder and Mr Universe"

"1991   Niagara Falls Pro Invitational IFBB      1st
1991   Night of Champions IFBB      7th
1991   Olympia IFBB      DID NOT PLACE
1991   Pittsburg Pro Invitational IFBB      12th
1991   San Jose Pro Invitational IFBB      5th
1992   Chicago Pro Invitational IFBB      16th
1992   Niagara Falls Pro Invitational IFBB      8th"

Thanks, as far as the following, if it happens it happens. Instagram is trying to take over YouTube by way of IGTV, they just made the platform more follower friendly. Now, when you make an IGTV post it goes to your timeline to attract a bigger following or at the very least to be more visible. The videos have to be 10min or less. I put the overtraining video up yesterday on IGTV and so far has almost 1300 views with quite a bit of interaction

[Vince B]

Have you been tested to know if your theories are correct, so that you know you actually do not have Low-T levels?

No medical tests. However, hair growth on chest and back suggest possible high hormone levels. Curses that hair grows everywhere but on the top of the head!

[Kwon]

if I make 5 Ill be more shocked than anyone

Love the Potentate!

[Coach is Back!]

No medical tests. However, hair growth on chest and back suggest possible high hormone levels. Curses that hair grows everywhere but on the top of the head!

You’re 77 years old. Out of all seriousness I would be surprised if your levels were above 90-100

[Conker]

so a video telling us that as you get older you will naturally lose muscle and strength. this is ground breaking stuff! i predict at least 17 views 

[Powerlift66]

Just being healthy and alive at 77 is great, plus still training, etc.
Good for you Vince!

[Humble Narcissist]

There are a few things the scientists got wrong about bodybuilding, exercise and hypertrophy.

Remember when they had an experiment that showed full squats damaged the knees? University staff all believed this

and had athletes do quarter squats and squats to a chair or box. Turns out the sample in that experiment had damaged

knees from playing basketball on tarmac. When it was repeated they didn't find squats to be dangerous. We bodybuilders

knew that all along. So did Olympic weight lifters who seldom got sore knees and they bounced out of deep squat positions.

I don't believe they have it right about sarcopenia. Sure, if you test thousands of old men you will find that they lose size and strength.

Is it inevitable? That depends on what stress or exercise you continue to do. For example, guys who keep up long distant running

or cycling can perform well into old age. Same goes with hypertrophy. If you trigger hypertrophy in a muscle it will respond and

sarcopenia can be avoided or at least delayed for who knows how long.

The third issue is hypertrophy and recovery. Can a muscle be retrained while still growing? Or should you wait until you have recovered and adapted?

There is so much wrong with what you've mentioned in this thread:
1) If you got down to the same bodyfat % today you had for your Mr. Canada win in the 1970's you'd probably have 11 inch arms.

2)  Olympic weightlifting doesn't damage knees?  What planet do you live on?  Look at practically every Olympic lifter over 40 or even 30 and their knees, hips, lower back, shoulders and elbows are wrecked.  Most Eastern European lifters who won medals in the 70's and 80's (Bulgarians, Turks, Soviets, East Germans, etc) were shot by age 25.

3) No one continuously makes muscular gains as they age.  NO ONE!  I've explained before how most lifters, bodybuilders and fitness enthusiasts quit training, get fat and then get back in shape and think they have gained when all they did was get back in shape.  If you continued making gains since you started training you would be bigger than The Incredible Hulk and lifting millions of pounds in the lifts.

Stop the delusion Vince. 

[pellius]

In old age we can sustain testosterone levels if we trigger hypertrophy and perhaps have an active sex life.

So why try drugs if the body provides sufficient male hormone, etc.

In the old days we avoided testosterone because of a worry about side effects.

I doubt very many bodybuilders used testosterone in the sixties and seventies.

I certainly never even contemplated using that hormone. Still not interested.

Because your body doesn't. A scientifically proven fact. Aging is a very real unavoidable process. Just look at yourself compared to the 1970s. Look at your face, your hair, that huge gut.

And you call Goodrum delusional.

[peroni]

I predict you'll last about 4 maybe 5 posts...lol

Perhaps he has a job that keeps him busy so he can't post 50,000 times on a single forum???

[pellius]

No medical tests. However, hair growth on chest and back suggest possible high hormone levels. Curses that hair grows everywhere but on the top of the head!

Another example of your ignorance. I don't have a shred of hair on my back or chest and have way more testosterone than you. Losing hair on your head and getting them on your chest, back, nose, and ears is not a sign of high testosterone. It's you growing old.

[pellius]

Perhaps he has a job that keeps him busy so he can't post 50,000 times on a single forum???

Josh hasn't worked in decades. He lives off people like Coach who has his money confiscated to support dead best parasites like him.

[myt1]

Thanks, as far as the following, if it happens it happens. Instagram is trying to take over YouTube by way of IGTV, they just made the platform more follower friendly. Now, when you make an IGTV post it goes to your timeline to attract a bigger following or at the very least to be more visible. The videos have to be 10min or less. I put the overtraining video up yesterday on IGTV and so far has almost 1300 views with quite a bit of interaction

I don't have an IG account.  If we can watch it without an account post a link, I'll watch.

YT is turning into a pile of shit.  If I had the money and knowledge of technology needed, I'd start a platform called "ReelTube"  spelled reel to reference film, but with the alternate meaning of keeping it real with no bullshit biased algorithms.  You want conservative, liberal, leftist, anti-white, pro-white......whatever, you get it and nothing is pushed on you.  Create communities/categories that make info easy to find so that people don't have to sit around on message boards to learn about some great channel they never knew existed until some guy named Megaladon posts it (good stuff Mega..more please).  No porn or beheading type shit, or money scams allowed would be the only rules along with copyright infringement obviously.  No demonetization for anything other than breaking those rules.  YT would be dead within a year.

P.S. If someone here is rich, and pulls off that idea with that name....I want my f'n cut!

[myt1]

Just being healthy and alive at 77 is great, plus still training, etc.
Good for you Vince!

True dat.  As much as I hurt, and with the health issues I have, I doubt I'll see 77 let alone working out.  X2 Good for you Vince!

No medical tests. However, hair growth on chest and back suggest possible high hormone levels. Curses that hair grows everywhere but on the top of the head!

Hair growth is not indicative of high T levels at all.  As someone said they have little body hair, and many others that have naturally high or elevated levels from AAS aren't hairy either.  What your talking of is genetic and driven by DHT levels more than anything else.

3) No one continuously makes muscular gains as they age.  NO ONE!  I've explained before how most lifters, bodybuilders and fitness enthusiasts quit training, get fat and then get back in shape and think they have gained when all they did was get back in shape.  If you continued making gains since you started training you would be bigger than The Incredible Hulk and lifting millions of pounds in the lifts.

Humble, now I understand more of how you came to post what you did in the 45 and older thread that I disagreed with.  This makes some sense to me...especially the grow-shrink-grow-shrink cycle.  I've definitely done that due to seasons, health, and injury.  That being said I started at 125 around 16 and was about 160-165 by 19.  So yeah, huge jump, but I had little definition at 160 then.  I focused on getting from about 17% to 12% before trying to build again, and by 28 or 29 which was my biggest and best look I was 197 at 8.5-10% depending on who measured me with the calipers.  Killed it at a buffet during that time just so I could say I broke the 200 mark (203)

So even though there was bulking, cutting, layoff periods in there(all things I believe in doing), I continued to grow and get leaner for another 10-11 years beyond the 1-2 yr window you suggest.

[Humble Narcissist]

True dat.  As much as I hurt, and with the health issues I have, I doubt I'll see 77 let alone working out.  X2 Good for you Vince!

Hair growth is not indicative of high T levels at all.  As someone said they have little body hair, and many others that have naturally high or elevated levels from AAS aren't hairy either.  What your talking of is genetic and driven by DHT levels more than anything else.

Humble, now I understand more of how you came to post what you did in the 45 and older thread that I disagreed with.  This makes some sense to me...especially the grow-shrink-grow-shrink cycle.  I've definitely done that due to seasons, health, and injury.  That being said I started at 125 around 16 and was about 160-165 by 19.  So yeah, huge jump, but I had little definition at 160 then.  I focused on getting from about 17% to 12% before trying to build again, and by 28 or 29 which was my biggest and best look I was 197 at 8.5-10% depending on who measured me with the calipers.  Killed it at a buffet during that time just so I could say I broke the 200 mark (203)

So even though there was bulking, cutting, layoff periods in there(all things I believe in doing), I continued to grow and get leaner for another 10-11 years beyond the 1-2 yr window you suggest.

Just remember that the gains you made as a teen were not all because of weight training but because of growing into adulthood which would have happened if you never trained.  The only way a person can actually know specifically how much they gained from weight training would be to start weight training for the first time as a full grown adult while measuring bodyfat levels along the way.  My guess is most people who train naturally only gain 10 to 20 pounds of muscle total from weight training.

[Primemuscle]

I beg to differ. Arms and legs don't have much fat on them. I can assure you that staying lean at my age is difficult. Why? Well, meals come with dessert and

I like Pepsi.
 

Pepsi is poison! My late wife drank gallons of diet Pepsi. In my opinion, it shortened her life. Also, I suspect there is something in it that is addictive. Try unsweetened ice tea instead.

[Vince B]

Pepsi and Coke are two brands that are similar and perhaps 'addictive'. At least there is sugar in these drinks. The diet drinks are another thing. Nothing of value except water. I sometimes have bottled water if it is cold.

Having an opinion about diet drinks shortening a partner's life would need some supporting research before I will accept that theory.

[myt1]

Just remember that the gains you made as a teen were not all because of weight training but because of growing into adulthood which would have happened if you never trained.  The only way a person can actually know specifically how much they gained from weight training would be to start weight training for the first time as a full grown adult while measuring bodyfat levels along the way.  My guess is most people who train naturally only gain 10 to 20 pounds of muscle total from weight training.

I'm a damn midget bro.   I started "growing into adulthood" at 12-13, and it stopped at 15.  Hence, me taking up weight training.  If I wasn't going to grow taller, I figured I might as well grow wider.

I get your true point, btw.  

I disagree on the 10-20lb figure though.  I was a skinny-chubby 125 b4 I started at 16...i'd guess 20-22% bf .  Adulthood bone and naturally occurring muscle density growth likely added 30lbs (I feel I'm being generous with that) which would put me at 155 if I never lifted.  I'm stocky-chubby currently....19% bf with calipers, and weigh 192-194 each morning.  So that's close to a 40lb difference, 20-30 more than your suggested range.

Before you come back at me with "You've said you've been on trt for about 15 yrs", I'll just tell ya while keeping personal stuff personal,... That's true, but it's been on and off (it does get old, and there's a lot of other things in play with my health that has 0 to do with bbing or AAS, as well as a serious accident.....two 3 yr stretches of doing no workouts)  That's why I said I agreed with you about the shrink-grow cycle thing you talked about.  It definitely applies to me although not by choice as often as I'd have picked.  Also, out of that 15 years, I had one 1 yr segment where I trained hard and ate right consistently, and then another 10 month stretch where I did so as well.   I started back in the gym only 2 months ago, and TRT 3 months ago and weighed 199-204 in the mornings.  So trt does not make the changes people might think it does.  I'm just less depressed, angry/aggravated, and tired.

[myt1]

Pepsi is poison! My late wife drank gallons of diet Pepsi. In my opinion, it shortened her life. Also, I suspect there is something in it that is addictive. Try unsweetened ice tea instead.

I'd totally agree with you based on my experience with someone I was close to:

My manager at one job would bring in a 12 pack of diet coke every day.  She would wipe it out in 6-8 hours...if gone b4 she was to leave, she'd go to the food court and get a huge styro cup from the chinese place in the food court...probably 44-56oz size. I was floored after the first week working with her. 

Her mood didn't change at all.  Very cool lady.  Funny, calm, and spoke at a normal rate......you'd think with that amount of caffeine she'd be going crazy, but nope.  As I got to get more comfortable with her and know her better, I started giving her shit about drinking that much especially since she would rarely eat even one meal while there.  That's when I really freaked out, as she informed me she would have 2-3 cups of coffee in the morning with some toast(she'd often get a large plain coffee or two while at work as well), and that when she got home she'd have another 6-8 cans of diet coke while cooking dinner and leading until bed.  From dinner time to bed time her and her husband would split a 12 pack or a 24 pack of miller lite as well.  Dinner was her only real and consistent meal.  There's two things that will floor on top of that.  1) The job was me being assistant manager, and her the manager of a health food and supplement store 2) she was overweight, and that's when twin labs started selling metabolift and then ripped fuel.....she alternate between those two on top of all that other caffeine.  Never known any like her as a person, but also never anyone that could handle that much caffeine and then do ripped fuel which had ephedra to boot......she also got a lot of nicotine via a pack+ a day of marlboro menthols

She got colon cancer.  I've tried to track her down at different times over the years as we became very close....she was like a mother and great friend to me, but she does not come up so I'm thinking it got her.

[IroNat]

I'd totally agree with you based on my experience with someone I was close to:

My manager at one job would bring in a 12 pack of diet coke every day.  She would wipe it out in 6-8 hours...if gone b4 she was to leave, she'd go to the food court and get a huge styro cup from the chinese place in the food court...probably 44-56oz size. I was floored after the first week working with her. 

Her mood didn't change at all.  Very cool lady.  Funny, calm, and spoke at a normal rate......you'd think with that amount of caffeine she'd be going crazy, but nope.  As I got to get more comfortable with her and know her better, I started giving her shit about drinking that much especially since she would rarely eat even one meal while there.  That's when I really freaked out, as she informed me she would have 2-3 cups of coffee in the morning with some toast(she'd often get a large plain coffee or two while at work as well), and that when she got home she'd have another 6-8 cans of diet coke while cooking dinner and leading until bed.  From dinner time to bed time her and her husband would split a 12 pack or a 24 pack of miller lite as well.  Dinner was her only real and consistent meal.  There's two things that will floor on top of that.  1) The job was me being assistant manager, and her the manager of a health food and supplement store 2) she was overweight, and that's when twin labs started selling metabolift and then ripped fuel.....she alternate between those two on top of all that other caffeine.  Never known any like her as a person, but also never anyone that could handle that much caffeine and then do ripped fuel which had ephedra to boot......she also got a lot of nicotine via a pack+ a day of marlboro menthols

She got colon cancer.  I've tried to track her down at different times over the years as we became very close....she was like a mother and great friend to me, but she does not come up so I'm thinking it got her.

The human body is very resilient.

She must have had good genes too.