Visited the HRT clinic today

[deadz]

From the HCG alone?

You can get gyno from HCG alone, depends on the dose.

[cephissus]

The cost you quoted for both TRT and doctor prescribed supplements seems very high. A scale of 700 - 1200 is a better choice. Most recommendations for test levels are too low, IMO.

Supplements have side effects too, but they are likely to be less intense. The effectiveness of Clomid on men is debatable. It is not FDA approved for use in men. DHEA and HCG can be purchased online and are not expensive. Check out ReliableRXPharmacy, https://www.reliablerxpharmacy.com/hcg.html. I've bought from them for years with no problems. If you go the TRT route and have health insurance which covers testosterone, it isn't expensive. My co-pay is around $50. for a 10ML, 200 MG per ML vial, which lasts me three months. Syringes are inexpensive. Some pharmacies require a prescription for them, some don't. Mine doesn't.

Thanks prime. Do you think 480 is too low for someone my age?

Edit:

Also, does anyone know anything about "free test"? The doc explained that sex hormone binding globulin determines how much test is available. My SHBG was pretty high, so I'm guessing 7.81 pg/ml free T is low, even if 480 ng/dl serum T isn't that bad in itself.

Edit 2:

Hmm, looks like the reference range for free T is about 30 - 170 pg/dl, and it should be about 1-2.5% total test. pg/ml is one tenth ng/dl, so .78 ng/dl free T... Which way lower than 4.8 ng/dl (1%).

[Earl1972]

Thanks prime. Do you think 480 is too low for someone my age?

sounds low to me, i remember being a little over 800 when i was 36

E

[JAGO]

Dave is having a discussion on this here -

I can’t post YouTube vids ( for some reason ) from my iPad. It is worth watching.

J

[myt1]

Thanks myt1, really interesting! What was your test before going on any protocol? How did you feel at your "natural level"?

No prob!


Read the other thread I referenced as I laid out mostly everything about my journey with finding the right dr. and getting on trt, but I will address this question here for you. 

I just checked my spreadsheets of the stuff I kept from years ago (only 3 of them, and only one was tested for total test)...  I don't know what my total test was before I got on HRT.  My gp at the time was part of a large nation med chain and he had no clue what he was doing.  He tested free test, and it was only 74 I think (no spreadsheet for that one)  In 2012 after taking an extended break, and wanting to resume the dr. I found that knew what he was doing made me test first to cover his ass.  I was 311, and in both instances I felt like my free test was at 74, and later my total test was at 311...... which is a polite way of saying fucking horrible!

[myt1]

The cost you quoted for both TRT and doctor prescribed supplements seems very high. A scale of 700 - 1200 is a better choice. Most recommendations for test levels are too low, IMO.

Supplements have side effects too, but they are likely to be less intense. The effectiveness of Clomid on men is debatable. It is not FDA approved for use in men. DHEA and HCG can be purchased online and are not expensive. Check out ReliableRXPharmacy, https://www.reliablerxpharmacy.com/hcg.html. I've bought from them for years with no problems. If you go the TRT route and have health insurance which covers testosterone, it isn't expensive. My co-pay is around $50. for a 10ML, 200 MG per ML vial, which lasts me three months. Syringes are inexpensive. Some pharmacies require a prescription for them, some don't. Mine doesn't.

Great post.....although I'm shocked you can buy HCG online with no script?  WTF?  It's a drug.  Is that a U.S. site, and 100% legit with the bac water and product needing to be mixed?

As for your scale you gave, I agree with that number range, but a person is stuck with the suggested range the lab the dr. sends it to uses.  The lab company mine goes to suggests 285-950....that's retarded IMO  The problem with that scale is that those ranges are very old and demographics were very different way back then.  Most blacks and hispanics probably have peak natural levels over 1200.  That's why they'll fuck all these fat pigs, and are so effective at reproducing. (no racist)  And those levels were a range of guys from like late teens to their late 70's from what I've read.  So some kid who's 20 goes in with half the real normal range for someone his age which is likely 1000+, and he gets told everything is just fine..."you're perfectly normal son"

Cyp which Prim is on is a lot cheaper than the Test E I'm on.  I pay $64-67 depending on the pharmacy for only a 5ML bottle.  I actually know the cash price for both without insurance at all pharms including CVS and WalMart is usually about 115-140 for 10 mls of Cyp, and about 125-135 for Test Enanthate.  If you're using a real dr. and not one of those clinics that "compounds their own" *cough* FUCKING BULLSHIT *cough* you should have your script called into walmart as you can go to goodrx.com and get a copay coupon that should make it close to what Prime and I pay for our differing types of test respectively.

Oh, and just by chance.... I happened to have called CVS to find out how much pins and syringes were a couple hours ago as I'm running low.  18 guage bd 3cc syringe (to draw) = $.26/each.  23 guage 1 inch BD needle only (switch the needle to shoot.....18 is gonna hurt!) = $.18/each

For those asking for info, HTH!  Good luck!

[myt1]

Thanks prime. Do you think 480 is too low for someone my age?

Edit:

Also, does anyone know anything about "free test"? The doc explained that sex hormone binding globulin determines how much test is available. My SHBG was pretty high, so I'm guessing 7.81 pg/ml free T is low, even if 480 ng/dl serum T isn't that bad in itself.

Edit 2:

Hmm, looks like the reference range for free T is about 30 - 170 pg/dl, and it should be about 1-2.5% total test. pg/ml is one tenth ng/dl, so .78 ng/dl free T... Which way lower than 4.8 ng/dl (1%).

You're hormone bloods should include the following.  Total testosterone, free testosterone, shbg, FREE TESTOSTERONE%, a psa, estradiol, and DHEA and IGF-1 is optional.  Free test range is 47-240 IIRC.  The 47 number I'm certain of as being the low when I was first tested since I was at those numbers flipped...74, and I am 100% positive the upper end was above 200.

Free test is what you're body is actually using.  That is the diesel fuel you need buddy.  The range you posted is just their range.....although I will say whoever you're using has some  very low end values.  Free test percent is something you want to focus on.  Range should be 2-3%, with "optimal" NOT "ideal"...being 2.5 to 3%  I was dead on at 3% these last labs.

[AbrahamG]

Great post.....although I'm shocked you can buy HCG online with no script?  WTF?  It's a drug.  Is that a U.S. site, and 100% legit with the bac water and product needing to be mixed?

As for your scale you gave, I agree with that number range, but a person is stuck with the suggested range the lab the dr. sends it to uses.  The lab company mine goes to suggests 285-950....that's retarded IMO  The problem with that scale is that those ranges are very old and demographics were very different way back then.  Most blacks and hispanics probably have peak natural levels over 1200.  That's why they'll fuck all these fat pigs, and are so effective at reproducing. (no racist)  And those levels were a range of guys from like late teens to their late 70's from what I've read.  So some kid who's 20 goes in with half the real normal range for someone his age which is likely 1000+, and he gets told everything is just fine..."you're perfectly normal son"

Cyp which Prim is on is a lot cheaper than the Test E I'm on.  I pay $64-67 depending on the pharmacy for only a 5ML bottle.  I actually know the cash price for both without insurance at all pharms including CVS and WalMart is usually about 115-140 for 10 mls of Cyp, and about 125-135 for Test Enanthate.  If you're using a real dr. and not one of those clinics that "compounds their own" *cough* FUCKING BULLSHIT *cough* you should have your script called into walmart as you can go to goodrx.com and get a copay coupon that should make it close to what Prime and I pay for our differing types of test respectively.

Oh, and just by chance.... I happened to have called CVS to find out how much pins and syringes were a couple hours ago as I'm running low.  18 guage bd 3cc syringe (to draw) = $.26/each.  23 guage 1 inch BD needle only (switch the needle to shoot.....18 is gonna hurt!) = $.18/each

For those asking for info, HTH!  Good luck!

Really good post.  Reliable Rx as recommended by Prime is an Indian pharmacy.  They are legit.  As are alldaygeneric and alldaychemist.  As for using a 23 gauge for injecting?  You are a badder man than me.  I use 25g for quads and slin pins for tri's and delts.  I use 23g to draw and it seems pretty quick to me.

[myt1]

Really good post.  Reliable Rx as recommended by Prime is an Indian pharmacy.  They are legit.  As are alldaygeneric and alldaychemist.  As for using a 23 gauge for injecting?  You are a badder man than me.  I use 25g for quads and slin pins for tri's and delts.  I use 23g to draw and it seems pretty quick to me.

Sometimes my long winded posts contain more info than people want to believe is there just by glancing. 

An 18 draws 1.5 mls almost like it's a water based if you push equal air into the bottle first.  I don't know how in the hell you do your side delts yourself, but then again you likely don't have little T-Rex arms like me.   The nurses bitch every fucking week about how hard it is to push it through, and try to talk me into a bigger gauge.....not happening.


The other thing for me is that I'm HUGE on cleanliness/100% sterileness with TRT.  I wipe the stopper b4 and post injection, and switching the needles not only means the one I'm injecting is totally clean, but also it's first use is plunging my tissues not the bottle.   Other than the length there isn't much difference in feel of injecting a 23 vs a 25 AG.

Site injections, and quad injections scare the shit out of me.  My tri's are pretty good even after just a couple months training returning from 2.5+ yrs not lifting at all.  I wouldn't mind doing my front delts (don't know how to safely), and rear delts (can't reach, and dr. won't allow nurses to do)  Biceps you're supposed to use a 1-1.5 inch to get under the muscle aren't you?  No way in hell I'd try that.

Have you ever hit a nerve doing quads, or not been able to walk right after a bad shot?

[AbrahamG]

Sometimes my long winded posts contain more info than people want to believe is there just by glancing. 

An 18 draws 1.5 mls almost like it's a water based if you push equal air into the bottle first.  I don't know how in the hell you do your side delts yourself, but then again you likely don't have little T-Rex arms like me.   The nurses bitch every fucking week about how hard it is to push it through, and try to talk me into a bigger gauge.....not happening.


The other thing for me is that I'm HUGE on cleanliness/100% sterileness with TRT.  I wipe the stopper b4 and post injection, and switching the needles not only means the one I'm injecting is totally clean, but also it's first use is plunging my tissues not the bottle.   Other than the length there isn't much difference in feel of injecting a 23 vs a 25 AG.

Site injections, and quad injections scare the shit out of me.  My tri's are pretty good even after just a couple months training returning from 2.5+ yrs not lifting at all.  I wouldn't mind doing my front delts (don't know how to safely), and rear delts (can't reach, and dr. won't allow nurses to do)  Biceps you're supposed to use a 1-1.5 inch to get under the muscle aren't you?  No way in hell I'd try that.

Have you ever hit a nerve doing quads, or not been able to walk right after a bad shot?

Never had any issues doing quads.  But, I've been hearing all the horror stories which is why i've been doing tri's more recently.  Hitting side delts is do-able for me but tri's are much, much easier. 

Fuck bicep injections.  Same for pec injections. 

When I run out of 23g for drawing, I'll grab some 18's.