Author Topic: Who's still using protein powders?  (Read 11588 times)

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #100 on: March 23, 2019, 03:36:04 PM »
because you claim theyre all the same, made in the same factory etc.

nobody but you is talking about false claims and marketing.

i dont know if you just registered on getbig, for some reason you seem to think youre the only one thats been lifting weights for a long time and you feel the need to tell people of your great discovery "supplements dont work!"


Well,you seem to think they do.

myt1

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #101 on: March 23, 2019, 03:41:03 PM »
I had pretty much given up on protein powders...totally given up on whey only....until a couple of years ago going through a Neighborhood Walmart grocery, and saw a 2.5 lb tub of Six Star brand on sale for $17.99 with a free t-shirt inside the outer packaging.  

I thought "what the hell, if it sucks I still got a new workout shirt"  Vanilla tastes awesome when mixed with blueberries or strawberries, and doesn't bother my stomach at all.  I ordered it once on Amazon, and a few months ago they sent me an email for this version https://www.sixstarpro.com/can/products/100-whey-protein-plus/  which was on sale for $25.97 FOR 5 LBS!!!  It has bcaa's and creatine in it already so I no longer have to spend money on those two things separately.  I ordered 10, and I only use about 1.5 lbs a month so I'm set for a long time, and the exp. date isn't until 2022 8)

It's actually Muscle Tech's protein re-branded for mass distribution at Walmart, Target, and on Amazon.

IRON CROSS

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #102 on: March 23, 2019, 03:55:07 PM »
Whey is a waste product in cheese making process.
Many Australian pig  farmers feed porky's with that yellow whey water, pigs loved & is for free.


myt1

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #103 on: March 23, 2019, 04:06:32 PM »
I make up stories about protein not working?  So you still believe the supp companies?  I used to be ignorant like you on supplements when I was a teenager/early 20's but learned the truth.  Maybe someday you will learn.  Until then enjoy wasting money on fart powder and just remember to stack creatine, HMB, Vanadyl Sulphate and Hot Stuff to really amp up the gains.  If you add some Andro to the mix you'll put 2 inches on your arms in 30 days!!!  Just don't tell anyone I let you in on the secret.

I co-managed and managed a few different nutrition stores for about 5 years, and that meant I got to read all of the mags for free on and off all day when it was slow, AND I got to try a lot of stuff for free.  I bought into the hype when I first started lifting at 15, but after joining the gym at 16 and then working there at 17 the older dudes let me in on the real "secret".  

I agree with what you're saying about protein and supps partially.  Going off of ad claims like MT did back in the day (maybe still does) is fucking stupid.  However, their products were/are good quality IMO (at least their off brand Six Star is...I've never used MT except for free Hydroxycut that was returned).  There are only a few actual manufacturer's out there so you're kinda right that they are all the same, but that's not 100% accurate.  Most just figure out what they want in their product, design a label, have it made, and then market the shit outta things.  Some pick the cheapest manufacturer.  Sometimes even a good manufacturer fucks up some batches, or gets the product completely wrong from what the supp company actually told them to make.  So I don't think it's fair to say everything is worthless or that everything is the same, because that's just not true for both arguments.

HMB was a total bullshit scam. Agree 100% about that.  Never even tried it, because it was so expensive (I could literally get real Deca for almost the same price!), and no one I sold it to ever had any noticeable improvements at all.  Best scam Phillips ever came up with by far!  

However, I absolutely swear by vanadyl sulfate!  Have used it since I was around 20 or 21.  Sport Pharma, Ultimate Nutrition, and EAS all had great versions of it.  Sport Pharma was over-priced, and V2G (the best one) is no more.  I still use Ultimate's for 3-4 months on and then take a break.  If you're eating right you will get better pumps regardless of bf%.  Once I hit 12% and below I see a very noticeable difference in vascularity while using within the first 2 weeks, and the pumps seem even better when I'm lean for some reason.  

Keep in mind vanadium is often used because it's cheaper, but they still market it the same as vanadyl sulfate.  It's shit, and can actually be toxic in that form.

ratherbebig

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #104 on: March 23, 2019, 04:10:14 PM »
study of hmb:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5537867/

2017 Jul; 9

The Effect of a 12-Week Beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) Supplementation on Highly-Trained Combat Sports Athletes: A Randomised, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Crossover Study

5. Conclusions
This study indicates that HMB supplementation in athletes training combat sports promotes an advantageous reduction of fat mass and increase in fat-free mass, anaerobic peak power, average power, and post-anaerobic exercise lactate concentrations. HMB also stimulates beneficial changes in aerobic capacity of the organism, mainly due to the increased values of ventilatory threshold.


myt1

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #105 on: March 23, 2019, 04:19:46 PM »
study of hmb:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5537867/

2017 Jul; 9

The Effect of a 12-Week Beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) Supplementation on Highly-Trained Combat Sports Athletes: A Randomised, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Crossover Study

5. Conclusions
This study indicates that HMB supplementation in athletes training combat sports promotes an advantageous reduction of fat mass and increase in fat-free mass, anaerobic peak power, average power, and post-anaerobic exercise lactate concentrations. HMB also stimulates beneficial changes in aerobic capacity of the organism, mainly due to the increased values of ventilatory threshold.



Funded by?

I know that some early creatine studies were funded by supp companies and performed at a university in NE.

ratherbebig

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #106 on: March 23, 2019, 04:30:04 PM »
Funded by?

I know that some early creatine studies were funded by supp companies and performed at a university in NE.

Polish National Science Centre.

The National Science Centre is a governmental grant-making agency responsible for providing financial support for the conduct of basic science research in Poland and various programs to assist scientists throughout their careers.

Tomasz Podgórski
3Department of Biochemistry, Poznan University of Physical Education

Jan Jeszka
1Department of Hygiene and Human Nutrition, Poznan University of Life Sciences, 60-624 Poznań, Poland;

Krzysztof Durkalec-Michalski
1Department of Hygiene and Human Nutrition, Poznan University of Life Sciences, 60-624 Poznań, Poland;

tres_taco_combo

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #107 on: March 23, 2019, 04:54:16 PM »
study of hmb:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5537867/

2017 Jul; 9

The Effect of a 12-Week Beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) Supplementation on Highly-Trained Combat Sports Athletes: A Randomised, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Crossover Study

5. Conclusions
This study indicates that HMB supplementation in athletes training combat sports promotes an advantageous reduction of fat mass and increase in fat-free mass, anaerobic peak power, average power, and post-anaerobic exercise lactate concentrations. HMB also stimulates beneficial changes in aerobic capacity of the organism, mainly due to the increased values of ventilatory threshold.



things like HMB and DHEA do show studies of them working but who knows how much they actually work? also it is easy to compare them gear...


my take on fitness supps... do not even spend money on them till your training is down, sleep, diet is on point, then spend more money on quality food first (i recently started buying higher quality eggs) and i love the taste and i dont mind eating them and i know its a better product, then make sure your sleep is on point...

and if you have money left over.. then buy some items like HMB and DHEA

----------------------------

most  weekend warriors stock up on fitness supps thinking it will be magic in a bottle but their training dieting. sleeping is sub par.  i give credit to the supp companies for their marketings.. .they are selling HBM to make money $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

use your fitness kitty money to buy higher calibre eggs over supps .


i do take 1-2 scoops of whey when I am pre contest - again - coach recommends it

myt1

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #108 on: March 23, 2019, 05:02:53 PM »
Polish National Science Centre.

The National Science Centre is a governmental grant-making agency responsible for providing financial support for the conduct of basic science research in Poland and various programs to assist scientists throughout their careers.

Tomasz Podgórski
3Department of Biochemistry, Poznan University of Physical Education

Jan Jeszka
1Department of Hygiene and Human Nutrition, Poznan University of Life Sciences, 60-624 Poznań, Poland;

Krzysztof Durkalec-Michalski
1Department of Hygiene and Human Nutrition, Poznan University of Life Sciences, 60-624 Poznań, Poland;

Fair enough....., and I'm actually surprised. :-\  However, it certainly doesn't "feel like being on deca" ::)  No customer that bought it that I knew used gear ever gave positive feedback on it at all, let alone validated that claim by bill and MM2K.  Even the natural guys said it was shit, and the biggest waste of money they ever spent on any supplement.

US MUSL

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #109 on: March 23, 2019, 05:05:47 PM »
I used HMB last summer for three months with a very controlled training schedule and diet, noticed no benefit.

ratherbebig

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #110 on: March 23, 2019, 05:08:08 PM »
I used HMB last summer for three months with a very controlled training schedule and diet, noticed no benefit.

how much did you use per day?

US MUSL

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #111 on: March 23, 2019, 05:10:09 PM »
^^^ 3 grams/day

IRON CROSS

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #112 on: March 23, 2019, 05:28:23 PM »
Weiders Research Institute is still far ahead of others ................ ;D

US MUSL

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #113 on: March 23, 2019, 05:29:22 PM »
However, I absolutely swear by vanadyl sulfate!  Have used it since I was around 20 or 21.  Sport Pharma, Ultimate Nutrition, and EAS all had great versions of it.  Sport Pharma was over-priced, and V2G (the best one) is no more.  I still use Ultimate's for 3-4 months on and then take a break.  If you're eating right you will get better pumps regardless of bf%.  Once I hit 12% and below I see a very noticeable difference in vascularity while using within the first 2 weeks, and the pumps seem even better when I'm lean for some reason.  

As I've aged my body has become very sensitive to carbohydrates, my dad is diabetic. Vanadyl helps with this sensitivity. I only use it on my workout days with my post workout carbs, using it everyday seems to lessen the effects.

ratherbebig

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #114 on: March 23, 2019, 05:31:30 PM »
^^^ 3 grams/day

ok that the recommended dose.

at least these days HMB is pretty cheap compared to what it used to be, if somebody would want to try it out.
to say if it "works" might also depend on what one means with works, maybe some wont have muscle gains, but it might help with recovery

IRON CROSS

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #115 on: March 23, 2019, 05:36:33 PM »
Polish National Science Centre.


Could this nice Polish people test "effectiveness" of Biceps Supinator Machinery, if they have nothing else to do   ;D


myt1

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #116 on: March 23, 2019, 05:40:15 PM »
^^^ 3 grams/day

How much did that cost you for your total trial of this?

how much did you use per day?

So after US MUSL's reply here I clicked on the study link you provided mainly to see what the dosage was to reach the conclusion you posted.  I didn't even bother getting to that.  First of all the results were very minimal.  "Following HMB supplementation, fat-free mass increased (p = 0.049) with a simultaneous reduction of fat mass (p = 0.016) in comparison to placebo. In turn, after HMB supplementation, the following indicators increased significantly in comparison to the placebo: the time to reach ventilatory threshold (p < 0.0001), threshold load (p = 0.017) and the threshold HR (p < 0.0001), as well as anaerobic peak power (p = 0.005), average power (p = 0.029), maximum speed (p < 0.001) and post-exercise lactate concentrations (p < 0.0001)"

Not a single one of their main measurables had a result of even a full .1, let alone even a full 1 + or - difference.  During a full fucking 12 weeks!  On top of that just in the very beginning without reading very far at all we see that the study started with 68, and 26 washed out during 12 weeks leaving them with only 42 test subjects (who trained different types of MMA) whose training styles and regimen were likely all over the board.  Also, in the chart in the beginning it has a training experience level of 7.5 yrs with a + or - value of 3.6 yrs.  3.6 yrs of bbing training is an insane difference, and I can only imagine that difference would be even more pronounced with MMA fighters in training intensity, duration, ability to push themselves further, conditioning, and skills.

I get that it was backed by the org you posted, but this study is so fucked and has such pathetic results that I can't help but think there's a bigger purpose and $ behind this study than just that org being curious to do a study on a compound that has pretty much been written off as a scam since early 2000's as recently as 2017 when this was published.  Something is not adding up here for me? :-\

myt1

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #117 on: March 23, 2019, 05:44:03 PM »
ok that the recommended dose.

at least these days HMB is pretty cheap compared to what it used to be, if somebody would want to try it out.
to say if it "works" might also depend on what one means with works, maybe some wont have muscle gains, but it might help with recovery

Who's the "high quality" brand for HMB these days, and what do they charge now?  IIRC, we were selling it for around $70 a bottle which I don't think even lasted a month.  I think it was for 2 weeks worth, but again I never tried it so I don't know if I'm right on that for sure?  Are you old enough to remember, and know if I'm right on that with EAS when it came out? ???

ratherbebig

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #118 on: March 23, 2019, 05:45:23 PM »
not sure if you're not reading it correctly, or if im not:

3.1. Body Composition
Following the 12-week HMB supplementation of the athletes, in comparison to the placebo treatment, a significant increase (p = 0.049) in the fat-free mass (HMB: +0.8 kg vs. PLA: −0.6 kg) was recorded.

+0.8kg fat free mass (1.7lb) isnt minimal.


ratherbebig

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #119 on: March 23, 2019, 05:46:53 PM »
Who's the "high quality" brand for HMB these days, and what do they charge now?  IIRC, we were selling it for around $70 a bottle which I don't think even lasted a month.  I think it was for 2 weeks worth, but again I never tried it so I don't know if I'm right on that for sure?  Are you old enough to remember, and know if I'm right on that with EAS when it came out? ???

a months supply is $30 or so now.

myt1

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #120 on: March 23, 2019, 06:35:07 PM »
not sure if you're not reading it correctly, or if im not:

3.1. Body Composition
Following the 12-week HMB supplementation of the athletes, in comparison to the placebo treatment, a significant increase (p = 0.049) in the fat-free mass (HMB: +0.8 kg vs. PLA: −0.6 kg) was recorded.

+0.8kg fat free mass (1.7lb) isnt minimal.



Honestly, YOU ARE probably reading it right as you went further into it.  The part I posted made me go "WTF...that's nothing", and then when I read about the washouts, different MMA styles, and the years training variable....I felt there was too much flaw in the study to read further.  I still feel that way due to those things.

"+0.8kg fat free mass (1.7lb) isnt minimal."  That's debatable.  I guess I'll go with your "isn't minimal" statement, but I'll ask you to go with my statement that "It's not remotely substantial either"?

To illustrate my point, today was actually my two week "check in" (with myself)....where I do all my tape measurements, weight, and 4 site skin fold (I actually do 5, but the 5th is for a 7 site test which I have a trainer at the gym do my axila and subscalpula as they're impossible on my own)  There is usually between a 1% - 2% difference between the two so I just add them and divide by 2, and go with that as my true reading......I'm telling you this because I factored in a 1.5% difference even though I won't be able to get those sites measured til after the weekend.

So here's where you realize I'm not the full of shit getbigger lying asshole you think I am.  Remember, I hadn't trained for almost 3 yrs after tearing my bicep so yeah....I'm a fatty, but getting better.  Started 12-29-18 at 194.2  BF est 25%  (tested 2 weeks later a little over 23% so I'm pretty sure my estimate was close)  Today 3-23-19 I weighed 187 on the dot, and average with 1.5% discrepancy factored in worked out to exactly 18% oddly enough.

So change in lbm is +8.66 lbs and fat weight change is -15.86 lbs.  Now, I am on TRT so there's that, and it's not something I'm trying to hide.  However, the first two weeks back I literally did curls and back rows with nothing heavier than 15 lb dbells.   I just did lots of reps + supersets + dropsets to keep me ego in check while I got over my fear of starting to lift again and started doing cardio.  I am still scared shitless, and next week (tommorow) will be the first time I use a dumbbell over 50lbs, and also the first time I bench more than 145 for reps.  Also, I only trained with weights 2x and did cardio 2x between 2-9 and 3-10 (those things overlapped once) as it was fuckin insanely cold here, and my bones and joints were aching like they were when I suffered my tear so I said fuck it...lifting can wait another month.  I could likely get much better results and speed up getting back to squatting 4 wheels+ and benching 3 wheels+, but if I'm growing and losing fat doing bitch weights why should I be in a rush to have sore joints and possibly re-tear my fuckin tendon, right?  Also, I'm 15 years older than I was when I squatted like that and 7 older than the last time I benched 315......I don't know that doing that is even a good goal to have at this point.

Most of those changes came from three things, and it was not the TRT because I was already back on it in late October.  Three things were: Zero alcohol, eating at least 2-3 home cooked meals + 1 protein shake (recipe in this thread), and muscle memory. 

I'm telling you all this to make my point about this study which is:   With a 3.6 yr differential in training, different MMA styles, plus just their "word" on nutrient intake, and.. (only they know what else? ;)) there's a lot of things we don't know in that study RBB.  There could be one of me in that group.  In a group of only 42 final subjects, someone like me with my numbers would fuck the whole thing up and make it as useless as I feel that it is.

Sorry....another long "Matt"-like post (I don't even know who you were referencing me to with that btw, but it sounded like a diss fucker! :D)  Hopefully, you found some value in this one.  I'd hate to have wasted your precious liberal time that you could have spent watching Maddow cry again. ;)

LOL!

myt1

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #121 on: March 23, 2019, 07:44:35 PM »
As I've aged my body has become very sensitive to carbohydrates, my dad is diabetic. Vanadyl helps with this sensitivity. I only use it on my workout days with my post workout carbs, using it everyday seems to lessen the effects.

I agree with you.  There are times (like the almost 3 yrs I wasn't training) where I would just take it every once in a while....usually with a really shitty meal....or more honestly, mealz!

I like the vascularity part of it as much as I like the pumps, so for me taking it for a few months (1 - 10mg tab per meal as long as it has carbs) during from say March-June, then off from June though August (it's hot AF so that makes me vascular anyway), and then get back on from August- October end, and then nothing except here and there with a cheat meal again until March when I start all over works great.

One thing I've learned is that AAKG becomes worth jack shit after a few months.  I thought adding it to periods when I do vanadyl would give even better pumps, and it does for a little bit, but then it goes back to just vanadyl levels after two months and not as many stiffies so it's gotta be the AAKG that's becoming less effective.  I'm on the vanadyl now, and cutting out AAKG.  I'm going to resume AAKG when I stop Vanadyl in June, and see if that works better to have those pumps year round without fucking up my insulin sensitivity/resistance and not having my NO2 receptors or whatever they're called shut down.  There is some kind of feedback enzyme or lipase for NO2 that maxes out.  It's a new thing I heard of that made sense, but I can't remember who's YT I saw it on or exactly what it's called or how it was explained.

Back to the HMB thing....so you spent $90 freaking bucks and got nothing from 12 weeks? 

Are you a natty US MUSL?  If not, why didn't you just go through a FL or CA TRT telemed, and get some deca for about the same price?

US MUSL

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #122 on: March 23, 2019, 07:52:48 PM »
Yes, I am natty. The HMB was Puritans Pride brand, not sure on the quality. Paid around $60 for three months supply.

myt1

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #123 on: March 23, 2019, 08:06:44 PM »
Yes, I am natty. The HMB was Puritans Pride brand, not sure on the quality. Paid around $60 for three months supply.

Well, if you're natty:

Creatine Mono
ECA
Glutamine
Protein (if you need more than you can eat foodwise)
Vanadyl
AAKG
BCAA's? (on the fence on those)
DHEA (if over 25, and allowed if you compete)


That's what works for bbing purposes IME of use, selling to customers and seeing what works for them, and both working at and being in gyms for 25+ years.  The rest is mostly nonsense, or would take away your natty status (sarms & prohormones)

Obviously good multi, c, minerals, EFA's, and such are good for just overrall health

US MUSL

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Re: Who's still using protein powders?
« Reply #124 on: March 24, 2019, 05:01:09 AM »
Currently using.

Creatine
Glutamine
Taurine
Vanadyl
Whey protein
DHEA
Udos oil 369 blend

Sarms/osterine is tempting