Anyone like HIT?

[Titus Pullo]

Hiya gents.

Dr. Leistner's recent death got me thinking about his training methods, which were distinctly old-school HIT.  

There are a ton of variations on that brand of lifting, and a lot of people are confused by just what constitutes HIT.  Some think it's the Art Jones full-body circuit of Nautilus machines, each exercise taken to one failure set, thrive weekly.  Others associate it with various Mentzer routines over the years, including his latter day recommendations of training once every one or two weeks, alternating between a session with deadlift and weighted dips, and another with squats and pulldowns.  (In other words, you would repeat a given exercise no more than once *every two weeks*; and if that didn't work, you'd be doing one failure set of each PER MONTH.)

Apart from that lunacy, and regardless of your type of HIT, what were your results?  I thrived on some of Mentzer's early recommendations, including the routine he outlined in his '92 book.  I plateaued after about six months with that, but once I started rotating through a key pool of exercises per body part a'la DC training, I took off again.  

Just curious.  

[Hypertrophy]

Hiya gents.

Dr. Leistner's recent death got me thinking about his training methods, which were distinctly old-school HIT.  

There are a ton of variations on that brand of lifting, and a lot of people are confused by just what constitutes HIT.  Some think it's the Art Jones full-body circuit of Nautilus machines, each exercise taken to one failure set, thrive weekly.  Others associate it with various Mentzer routines over the years, including his latter day recommendations of training once every one or two weeks, alternating between a session with deadlift and weighted dips, and another with squats and pulldowns.  (In other words, you would repeat a given exercise no more than once *every two weeks*; and if that didn't work, you'd be doing one failure set of each PER MONTH.)

Apart from that lunacy, and regardless of your type of HIT, what were your results?  I thrived on some of Mentzer's early recommendations, including the routine he outlined in his '92 book.  I plateaued after about six months with that, but once I started rotating through a key pool of exercises per body part a'la DC training, I took off again.  

Just curious.  

HIT works for building strength and muscle mass, no question. But if you are natural, you can expect maybe 20-30 pounds mass increase over 3-5 years. Then it all slows down anyways. I was a very lean 155 when I began and reached a very lean 185 eventually so I'm happy. I would need to take PEDs to get a much bigger than that.

I really don't like spending all that much time in a gym so HIT appeals to me. My workouts are very simple- twice every 8-10 days. One or two sets warmup, one to failure. I stick to the basics and don't do more than two exercises for any large muscle group, and only one for biceps and one for triceps. I generally do 8-10 exercises for the entire body, 6-8 reps max. So many exercises hit multiple muscles that I think it's counterproductive to do too many.

I tried once every week whole body and even once every two weeks. But I like the whole body every 4-5 days because I don't feel stiff and I am totally recovered and even super-compensated. Human muscular recovery is genetically determined. Research studies have shown some people exhibit full muscular recovery in 48 hours while some take 14 days. So you have to experiment to find out what works best for you.

[ratherbebig]

i dont like it because it's very demanding.

i feel doing much lighter training and still getting results is the better way. and never going to failure.

[Henda]

Training to failure/hit burns me out after only a few weeks these days, even when I was younger and could use it regular I made far better gains switching to multiple sets rather than one set to failure, a weight I’d fail after 8 reps I could get for 3 sets of 5 approaching failure on last set giving the best of both worlds

[oldtimer1]

I've been training with one or two sets to failure for many decades. Beginning to think I would have made more progress if I used volume.

 If high intensity was the magic bullet we would all be doing sets of a single rep. That's the most intense training one can do.

 Mentzer was a personal trainer after he recovered from his drug addiction. Of course as a trainer he came up with a plan to see his clients the minimum he could with his wacky training for 7 minutes every 8 to 10 days. At his best he was using Mr. Florida's Frank Calta Rotation for Recuperation method. He trained three days a week dividing his body in half. It went like this. Monday: Legs, chest and triceps. Wednesdays: back, delt and biceps On Friday: It was back to Monday with Legs, chest and triceps. Next week on Monday he trained Back, delt and bicep. Next week Wednesday he was doing legs, chest and Triceps. Friday: Was Back, Delt and bicep. So every body part got hit twice or once a week. If he missed a day he just made it up the next. He averaged 5 sets a body part. He used to do this split 4 days a week but felt it was too much hence following Frank Calta's lead. When he won the Mr. America he did a whole body routine three days a week but felt he was burning out.

[galain]

If anyone remembers the old 'Hardgainer's Workout" that used to be around back in the day, a friend of mine convinced me to train that style from about 2 years after I began lifting. It's basically high intensity with 20 rep breathing squats.

Well, I gave up on the breathing squats when I discovered I'm not necessarily a hardgainer, but I liked not having to spend hours in the gym so I stuck with it most of my life with decent results.

I'm pushing 50 now and I've picked up some injuries I think came from that style of training, and now I'm training a little lighter with more variety. I think it's a younger person's workout but I liked it when I was doing it.

[IroNat]

I do some exercises with one set to failure mainly to save time and because I only have so much energy and do a lot of sets in my main strength exercises.

I believe you could effectively train for strength and health doing only one hard set in each exercise.

[loco]

I do some exercises with one set to failure mainly to save time and because I only have so much energy and do a lot of sets in my main strength exercises.

I believe you could effectively train for strength and health doing only one hard set in each exercise.

Some people claim to practice High Intensity Training, but in reality all they are actually doing is just Super High Intensity Training.

[IroNat]

Some people claim to practice High Intensity Training, but in reality all they are actually doing is just Super High Intensity Training.

 

[Powerlift66]

I don't like it. I like old-school "Power-Building" type training. (Powerlifting mixed w/ bodybuilding stuff).
(Start each workout with a major lift, S-B-D, Press, etc.).

Using progression methods on the main lifts (Like Russian Progression over 6-week period).

Similar to this but tweaked:

https://www.tigerfitness.com/blogs/workouts/6-week-russian-powerlifting-peaking-program

Then accessory work.

Chest example

Bench (using progression method)
Heavy D-Bell bench - 4 sets
Incline or Decline barbell (Heavy) (alternate weeks) - 4 sets
Hammer Machine - 4 sets

(Randomly change up accessory lifts)

I actually love being in the gym 4 to 5 days a week (never more than 1.5 hours at a time).
But if you enjoy HIT, everything works. It comes down to what you enjoy, and working hard.

I tried Mentzer HIT once, hated it... I like writing my own workouts.
Ran into a guy In the gym recently, who I haven't seen since since 1998 (I wrote him a program at work back then).

21 years later he still had it with him at the gym, says he still falls back to it and uses it, but likes mixing things up.
Same old ratty piece of paper w/ my hand-writing. You would think he would have at least re-typed it.  

Another example for back day:

Reverse hyper - Warms up lower back, helps degenerating disc's. (4 sets)
Trap bar DL - (Using deadlift progression method). (Easier on disc's than normal DL at my age).
Chest supported rows (Heavy) - 4 sets
Lat pulldowns - 4 sets (Love the MAG bar - medium grip).
Shrugs - 4 sets.

Not for everyone, again, just love training this way (and it works for me) while HIT didnt (mentally) and many love it.

Long winded positive post reported.  

[Tapeworm]

It's horseshit.  No respectable S&C program in the world uses this protocol.

[tres_taco_combo]

i recommend to do it when you hit walls/plateaus and you need to blast onto the next level. 

its not something you do day in and day out if you ask me. maybe 12-16 weeks per year etc. it is best done on heavy cals/supplementation too and also works best with an experienced lifter

[myt1]

I'm a mix of everything posted here it seems, although since starting training again a few months ago I've gone with much higher reps than I used to.  Tearing my bicep tendon, and age have made me very cautious with poundages, but I'm starting to get a groove going (knock on wood) and the last few workouts have been pretty good.  Starting to feel a little like my old self in the gym as far as focus and intensity.  I am really big on supersets and drops, and I think that helps with getting and staying in a zone.

I doubt I will intentionally go below 6-8 reps ever again on anything.  I always have a 12 week layout, but change some things based on how I'm feeling, and depending on which gym I go to (I have access to several, but for now I float between 2). I never write down weights in the gym, but I've started journaling and putting weights and reps in as soon as I get home. 

Right now I'm putting on muscle, and losing fat lifting some seriously pussy ass weights, but I figure why rush to bench/squat/dead 3 wheels+ when I'm making progress like this?   Currently, I haven't done any of those lifts with more than 155lbs I think, and the heaviest dbells I've used now are the 65's for 10 on incline dbell presses.  I've just been going up like 10 lbs w/bbells and 5 w/dbells each workout or two, and/or get more reps with it.

Since most of us are older now, I'm more curious as to how you all have changed things since you're younger days?

[The Scott]

I train between two and four times a week.  Each workout lasts between 20 minutes and 45 minutes.  I employ H.I.T. sometimes in a strict manner and others in a variation on Mentzer's theme.   There are also days when I walk out of the gym/garage.  This is another part of H.I.T. that Mentzer spoke of.  If I don't think/feel I am up to it, then I doubt I am, ergo I don't train.

There are also times I will employ a ton of reps, up to 50+ for between 5 and ten sets with a very light weight that soon gets heavy.  I like a really good pump and when I want that I just rep out for the pure joy of it.  In my youth I did the whole Weider Lie by training 2 or 3 hours a day, sometimes twice a day for 6 days a week.  FTN.   For a couple of decades (at least) now I have had a life out of the gym because of Mentzer and H.I.T.

Listen to yourself.  If something doesn't produce results, don't do it.  If something consistently causes you harm, don't do it.  If something works for you (and no, I don't mean drugs, LOL!) then do it.  Because if it works for you, then it works for you.  For naturals, training is definitely harder but I will say that naturals keep training long after druggies stop or drop dead.  Why?  Because we train for us and not just our fucking ego.  Should we stop, our muscle remains longer because it is our muscle.  The champs of the past few decades are nothing but drugs.  Shit, I've seen the Oak off the dope and he was more a sapling than even me. 

So yeah.  I  like H.I.T. because at the heart of Mentzer's training was training is a part of your life, not all of it. 

[myt1]

I train between two and four times a week.  Each workout lasts between 20 minutes and 45 minutes.  I employ H.I.T. sometimes in a strict manner and others in a variation on Mentzer's theme.   There are also days when I walk out of the gym/garage.  This is another part of H.I.T. that Mentzer spoke of.  If I don't think/feel I am up to it, then I doubt I am, ergo I don't train.

There are also times I will employ a ton of reps, up to 50+ for between 5 and ten sets with a very light weight that soon gets heavy.  I like a really good pump and when I want that I just rep out for the pure joy of it.  In my youth I did the whole Weider Lie by training 2 or 3 hours a day, sometimes twice a day for 6 days a week.  FTN.   For a couple of decades (at least) now I have had a life out of the gym because of Mentzer and H.I.T.

Listen to yourself.  If something doesn't produce results, don't do it.  If something consistently causes you harm, don't do it.  If something works for you (and no, I don't mean drugs, LOL!) then do it.  Because if it works for you, then it works for you.  For naturals, training is definitely harder but I will say that naturals keep training long after druggies stop or drop dead.  Why?  Because we train for us and not just our fucking ego.  Should we stop, our muscle remains longer because it is our muscle.  The champs of the past few decades are nothing but drugs.  Shit, I've seen the Oak off the dope and he was more a sapling than even me. 

So yeah.  I  like H.I.T. because at the heart of Mentzer's training was training is a part of your life, not all of it. 

So you're not like wheelchair bound handicap then?  That's good to read.   That post of yours made me wonder.

[TheShape.]

I’ve always used a mixture of Reg Parks progressive overload mixed with some of Steve Reeves style higher reps on certain exercises, most of what I do is high volume but I very rarely do 1 RMs and keep arms and shoulders in reps of 10. It has always produced visible results so I’m likely to just continue with it.

[The Scott]

So you're not like wheelchair bound handicap then?  That's good to read.   That post of yours made me wonder.

I have a physical handicap (some might say mental, too! LOL!).  Thankfully I don't require a wheelchair but sometimes I do make use of canes and leg braces. I am like an old semi-buff Forrest Grumpy.

Unlike fucking libs, I have an excellent sense of humor, even when it comes to myself.  I've had a few people ax me WTF my "problem" is when I park in the Handicapable space. 

I tell them I'm a registered Dem.

Fuck 'em!

[The Scott]

I’ve always used a mixture of Reg Parks progressive overload mixed with some of Steve Reeves style higher reps on certain exercises, most of what I do is high volume but I very rarely do 1 RMs and keep arms and shoulders in reps of 10. It has always produced visible results so I’m likely to just continue with it.

Good stuff there, brother! 

[Hypertrophy]

I train between two and four times a week.  Each workout lasts between 20 minutes and 45 minutes.  I employ H.I.T. sometimes in a strict manner and others in a variation on Mentzer's theme.   There are also days when I walk out of the gym/garage.  This is another part of H.I.T. that Mentzer spoke of.  If I don't think/feel I am up to it, then I doubt I am, ergo I don't train.

There are also times I will employ a ton of reps, up to 50+ for between 5 and ten sets with a very light weight that soon gets heavy.  I like a really good pump and when I want that I just rep out for the pure joy of it.  In my youth I did the whole Weider Lie by training 2 or 3 hours a day, sometimes twice a day for 6 days a week.  FTN.   For a couple of decades (at least) now I have had a life out of the gym because of Mentzer and H.I.T.

Listen to yourself.  If something doesn't produce results, don't do it.  If something consistently causes you harm, don't do it.  If something works for you (and no, I don't mean drugs, LOL!) then do it.  Because if it works for you, then it works for you.  For naturals, training is definitely harder but I will say that naturals keep training long after druggies stop or drop dead.  Why?  Because we train for us and not just our fucking ego.  Should we stop, our muscle remains longer because it is our muscle.  The champs of the past few decades are nothing but drugs.  Shit, I've seen the Oak off the dope and he was more a sapling than even me. 

So yeah.  I  like H.I.T. because at the heart of Mentzer's training was training is a part of your life, not all of it. 

Good stuff - a common sense approach to weight training

[Powerlift66]

I have a physical handicap (some might say mental, too! LOL!).  Thankfully I don't require a wheelchair but sometimes I do make use of canes and leg braces. I am like an old semi-buff Forrest Grumpy.

Unlike fucking libs, I have an excellent sense of humor, even when it comes to myself.  I've had a few people ax me WTF my "problem" is when I park in the Handicapable space. 

I tell them I'm a registered Dem.

Fuck 'em!

All the best to you brother,keep doing your thing.

And Myt1, about getting older, at 52 now, and with disc degeneration, its a bit depressing, but now have to come to grips, squatting and Deadlifting heavy, are starting to become a thing of the past unfortunately.
Ive been doing belt squats in my garage gym (helps decomress the disc's also) and leg press and leg machines in the gym.

For DL, Ive been doing light trap bar DL's, just to keep doing the exercise that I enjoy w/out hurting myself more. (More of a mental thing these days).
Aging sucks, but im finally starting to take my own advices that I give others, lift lighter if older and injured.

[Humble Narcissist]

It's horseshit.  No respectable S&C program in the world uses this protocol.

This.

[IroNat]

Pick up something today.

Pick up something heavier tomorrow.

Keep doing that.

[Thin Lizzy]

I’ve always used a mixture of Reg Parks progressive overload mixed with some of Steve Reeves style higher reps on certain exercises, most of what I do is high volume but I very rarely do 1 RMs and keep arms and shoulders in reps of 10. It has always produced visible results so I’m likely to just continue with it.

This would best represent my views.

That said, I believe a lifter with many years under his belt will do well with a pyramid system for the compound movements. By the time you get to the heavy stuff you’re well warmed up:

15/12/10/8/6 and a drop set of 12-15 to get some volume with a manageable weight at a time when the mind/muscle link is well established.

[myt1]

All the best to you brother,keep doing your thing.

And Myt1, about getting older, at 52 now, and with disc degeneration, its a bit depressing, but now have to come to grips, squatting and Deadlifting heavy, are starting to become a thing of the past unfortunately.
Ive been doing belt squats in my garage gym (helps decomress the disc's also) and leg press and leg machines in the gym.

For DL, Ive been doing light trap bar DL's, just to keep doing the exercise that I enjoy w/out hurting myself more. (More of a mental thing these days).
Aging sucks, but im finally starting to take my own advices that I give others, lift lighter if older and injured.

Thanks for the response to me in their.  I'm very interested to know how those of you mid 40's and beyond have adapted, and what you've had to overcome/work around.  I don't know what belt squats are?  I can google, but I'd much rather if you posted a clip of someone you felt was doing it right as I have no idea what proper form looks like if I just watched some random clip.

Trap bar deads are a no way in hell for me!  I didn't tear my bicep working out, but palms facing each other was the hand position I was in when the tendon snapped off the bone.

[Thin Lizzy]

Thanks for the response to me in their.  I'm very interested to know how those of you mid 40's and beyond have adapted, and what you've had to overcome/work around.  I don't know what belt squats are?  I can google, but I'd much rather if you posted a clip of someone you felt was doing it right as I have no idea what proper form looks like if I just watched some random clip.

Trap bar deads are a no way in hell for me!  I didn't tear my bicep working out, but palms facing each other was the hand position I was in when the tendon snapped off the bone.

It’s really about just not being a hero in the gym. Doing consistent, solid workouts but nothing crazy.

IMO, the problem people have with squats is that they simply go to heavy, the result being knee and low back issues. I believe everyone would be better off if they didn’t squat with a weight that they couldn’t get onto their backs if they didn’t have a squat rack and had to start with the bar on the ground.