Author Topic: If Trump is innocent why did he say yesterday he won't allow McGahn to testify?  (Read 2920 times)

Prudence

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Allow?? AHAHAHHAHA!  Looks like he may not have a choice. Either way--I thought you guys here at the Getbig said your guy is clean as a whistle???
What's he scared about?  Could it be this is the guy that's gonna put the nail in the coffin when he tells Congress the same thing he told Mueller?

Maybe in your Trump deliria you guys forgot (or even ever knew??) who Don McGahn is...lemmie refresh ur memory:

Facts first: The Mueller report finds that "substantial evidence" supports the conclusion that Trump directed McGahn to call Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein to "have the Special Counsel removed." The report then details how Trump attempted to cover up the episode.
From multiple interviews with McGahn and others, the report states that after news broke saying Trump had ordered McGahn to fire Mueller, "the President ... sought to have McGahn deny that he had been directed to remove the Special Counsel." McGahn rejected this command and "insisted his memory of the President's direction to remove the Special Counsel was accurate," the report states.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/politics/fact-check-trump-claim-i-never-told-don-mcgahn-to-fire-mueller/index.html


Thin Lizzy

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Because he has no reason to make life easy for people who are trying to fuck him over. You’d do the same.

I love this logic that if you are innocent you should speak to the cops whether you’re required to do so or not. What do you have to gain? Nothing.

loco

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Maybe Trump doesn't want to give the Democrats a platform to play political games and campaign against him.  Presidential elections are next year and Democrats are desperate.

Prudence

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Ohhhh..are those the reasons why?
Not because he's worried tho right??

Dos Equis

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Because he has no reason to make life easy for people who are trying to fuck him over. You’d do the same.

I love this logic that if you are innocent you should speak to the cops whether you’re required to do so or not. What do you have to gain? Nothing.

Maybe Trump doesn't want to give the Democrats a platform to play political games and campaign against him.  Presidential elections are next year and Democrats are desperate.

Yes.  And he already waived both executive and attorney-client privileges to allow McGahn to be interviewed for 30 hours.  That's a ridiculously long period of time to be questioning someone.  Enough already. 

Prudence

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Even too long to see if the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is obstructing and inpeeding an official investigation?
This ain't a fucken hamburger joint they're running over there.
If this were Hillary or Obama you'd want it looked into. If either of the two of them had instructed an employee to fire the guy running the special counsel, I'd be out for blood too.

Like I said a few weeks ago--Don Mcgahn is gonna be his demise.
yay!


Dos Equis

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Even too long to see if the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is obstructing and inpeeding an official investigation?
This ain't a fucken hamburger joint they're running over there.
If this were Hillary or Obama you'd want it looked into. If either of the two of them had instructed an employee to fire the guy running the special counsel, I'd be out for blood too.

Like I said a few weeks ago--Don Mcgahn is gonna be his demise.
yay!



There is no investigation.  The investigation is over and the investigators had everything they needed to confirm that the stupidest conspiracy theory in the history of stupid conspiracy theories was . . . . stupid. 

But yes, this is the end Trump.  You finally got him.   ::)

B_MyT_2

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30 hours wasn't enough.  2 years + wasn't enough.  Nothing will ever be enough.  Hillary lost, and she's not going to ever be President even if the lying left-tard loony anti-Americans somehow get their way, and overthrow Trump.  Get over it!

This is not a legitimate investigation, this is a non-violent attempt to overthrow a duly elected President that has led the country to prosperity, strengthened our military, is increasing our border security, lowered taxes, is treating Vets better, does not want wars, and would've accomplished a lot more if he hadn't had to deal with constant bullshit from a bunch of fucking crybabies that know they are losing their grip on any chance of holding the office of POTUS for at least a decade if Trump is re-elected.

Prudence

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hahahaaaa---you guys are funny.
 So every single thing Trump is accused of, you both know 100% he hasn't done??
There's no way for you OR ME to know what happened.
HENCE the investigation.
The investigation result was that obstruction COULD NOT be ruled out.
Now it's where it belongs--in Congress's lap.

How do you NOT see this as fair?
Lets start with the unredacted copy for EVERYBODY.
Tell me why that's unfair.

Go on.

Dos Equis

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30 hours wasn't enough.  2 years + wasn't enough.  Nothing will ever be enough.  Hillary lost, and she's not going to ever be President even if the lying left-tard loony anti-Americans somehow get their way, and overthrow Trump.  Get over it!

This is not a legitimate investigation, this is a non-violent attempt to overthrow a duly elected President that has led the country to prosperity, strengthened our military, is increasing our border security, lowered taxes, is treating Vets better, does not want wars, and would've accomplished a lot more if he hadn't had to deal with constant bullshit from a bunch of fucking crybabies that know they are losing their grip on any chance of holding the office of POTUS for at least a decade if Trump is re-elected.

Agree. 

Dos Equis

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hahahaaaa---you guys are funny.
 So every single thing Trump is accused of, you both know 100% he hasn't done??
There's no way for you OR ME to know what happened.
HENCE the investigation.
The investigation result was that obstruction COULD NOT be ruled out.
Now it's where it belongs--in Congress's lap.

How do you NOT see this as fair?
Lets start with the unredacted copy for EVERYBODY.
Tell me why that's unfair.

Go on.

Nah dude.  You are specifically talking about whether Trump obstructed the Russia investigation.  He clearly did not.  The investigation was completed, unimpeded by Trump.  They found, specifically, that Trump is not a Manchurian Candidate.  Don't start talking about "everything" he was accused of to try and change the subject.  Your original premise is BS.  McGahn already provided 30 hours of interview time.  Get over it already. 

Prudence

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Nah dude.  You are specifically talking about whether Trump obstructed the Russia investigation.  He clearly did not.  The investigation was completed, unimpeded by Trump. 
Whaaaaaat??
 I don't understand what u mean. The question is whether or not Trump told Mcgahn to fire Mueller. Mcgahn said he did. That's OBSTRUCTION.

Dos Equis

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Whaaaaaat??
 I don't understand what u mean. The question is whether or not Trump told Mcgahn to fire Mueller. Mcgahn said he did. That's OBSTRUCTION.

No it isn't.  Trump had the power to fire Mueller.  So telling McGahn to file Mueller, if that in fact happened, is not a crime.  And just talking about firing Mueller?  Seriously? 

But what the heck are we talking about?  Mueller was never fired and never impeded in any way.  You shouldn't die on this hill.  Preserve your credibility.   :)

Prudence

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No it isn't.  Trump had the power to fire Mueller. 
Verrrry debatable if he could or could not.
Can Trump fire Mueller?

“No,” said Jill Wine-Banks, who worked on the Watergate investigation of President Richard Nixon and his subordinates.

That is, Trump can’t fire Mueller directly.
The law that created the position of special counsel allows only the attorney general of the United States or someone else with the authority of that position to fire Mueller, Wine-Banks noted. The president cannot do it.


In this case, Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from issues related to Mueller’s probe. Therefore Mueller can only be fired by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who is acting AG for the purposes of the investigation. That investigation was originally looking into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election and possible collusion by Trump campaign officials with Russians, but since has expanded into other areas.

“Only he can do it, and he can only do it for cause,” Wine-Banks said of Rosenstein.

What cause would he give??

Prudence

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Now this is important--forgot to add it
The regulations also state that in order to fire Mueller, there has to be a good reason — specifically "misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of departmental policies."   
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/apr/12/can-donald-trump-fire-special-counsel-robert-muell/

Dos Equis

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Verrrry debatable if he could or could not.
Can Trump fire Mueller?

“No,” said Jill Wine-Banks, who worked on the Watergate investigation of President Richard Nixon and his subordinates.

That is, Trump can’t fire Mueller directly.
The law that created the position of special counsel allows only the attorney general of the United States or someone else with the authority of that position to fire Mueller, Wine-Banks noted. The president cannot do it.


In this case, Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself from issues related to Mueller’s probe. Therefore Mueller can only be fired by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who is acting AG for the purposes of the investigation. That investigation was originally looking into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election and possible collusion by Trump campaign officials with Russians, but since has expanded into other areas.

“Only he can do it, and he can only do it for cause,” Wine-Banks said of Rosenstein.

What cause would he give??

I'm rolling with Dershowitz on this one.

Alan Dershowitz: Barr is right, Mueller is wrong
BY ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR — 05/01/19

Despite efforts by Democratic senators and some in the media to cast the dispute between Attorney General William Barr and special counsel Robert Mueller as political, or even as a personal argument between close friends, it actually is much more about the substance of the law than it is about whether Barr accurately summarized the Mueller report.

Barr and Mueller fundamentally disagree about the law governing obstruction of justice by a president.

Even before Barr was nominated, he took the position, in a letter he wrote to the Justice Department, that for a president to obstruct justice he must go beyond committing a presidential act authorized under Article II of the Constitution.

Applied specifically to the case of President Trump, Barr has argued that President Trump’s firing of FBI Director James Comey could never — regardless of the motive — constitute the act component of the crime of obstruction of justice, because a president has the constitutional authority to fire anyone in the executive branch.

Muller apparently disagrees with that legal and constitutional conclusion. In his report, he lists the firing of Comey as one among several acts that could form the basis of an obstruction of justice charge. The other acts that he lists also generally fall within the authority of a president.

Whose view of the law is correct?  The answer should look to precedent. The two precedents most directly on point in resolving this important legal and constitutional question are the cases of Presidents Richard Nixon and George H.W. Bush.

Nixon clearly exceeded his presidential authority when he ordered the payment of hush money to potential federal witnesses, when he destroyed evidence and when he told his subordinates to lie to the FBI. These are all independent crimes which are beyond the authority of anyone, even a president. Together, they constitute obstruction of justice, and Nixon was almost certainly guilty of that crime.

Contrast the Nixon case with the act committed by President Bush on the eve of the most significant criminal trial involving the Iran-Contra scandal. President Bush exercised his constitutional authority to pardon former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger and a handful of other defendants. His purpose was clear: to end the Iran-Contra investigation and to prevent prosecutors from pressuring Weinberger and the others to testify against him.

Had similar actions been committed by anyone but a president, they clearly would have constituted an obstruction of justice. The special prosecutor, Lawrence Walsh, described it in terms that left little doubt about Bush’s unlawful purpose. Walsh condemned their pardons as part of the “cover-up” and “deception and obstruction.” But because the act of pardoning is authorized by the Constitution, no president can be charged with obstruction by acting pursuant to his constitutional authority.

The same is true of the firing of James Comey by President Trump. As Comey himself has acknowledged, President Trump acted within his constitutional authority when he fired Comey, and such a constitutionally authorized act cannot form the basis for a criminal charge of obstruction, regardless of why the president may have done it.


It is shocking that the Mueller report never discusses the difference between the Nixon and Bush cases. That difference is central to a proper application of the obstruction of justice statute to presidential decisions. It draws a clear line between presidential acts that are within the authority of Article II, such as pardoning and firing, and presidential acts that fall outside Article II authority, such as bribing witnesses, suborning perjury or destroying evidence.

Both Barr and Mueller were aware of the Bush precedent, since both served in the Bush Justice Department. Perhaps they did not want to say anything negative about their former boss, especially so shortly after his death.

There are no Supreme Court decisions or even Justice Department positions that directly resolve the issue of whether “the President’s exercise of his constitutional authority to terminate an FBI director and to close investigations” can constitutionally constitute an obstruction of justice. The Mueller report also acknowledges the principle that “general statutes must be read as not applying to the President if they do not expressly apply where application would arguably limit the President’s constitutional role.” And it correctly concludes that “the obstruction statutes do not disqualify the President from acting in a case simply because he has a personal interest in it or because his own conduct may be at issue.”

Those three principles should end the matter. In the absence of a contrary precedent, the general obstruction of justice statute should not be deemed applicable to the commission of an act by a president authorized by the Constitution, even if it was self-serving. This conclusion applies not only to the firing of Comey, but to all actions taken by President Trump pursuant to constitutional authority under Article II.

So, the controversy between these two experienced lawyers goes well beyond whether Barr inaccurately described the Mueller report. That is a moot issue, since all Americans can decide that for themselves now that both the report and the letter have been made public.

The real controversy is whether President Trump’s actions, that were authorized by the Constitution, could constitute the crime of obstruction of justice. Barr is right in concluding it couldn’t. Mueller is wrong in concluding it could.

Alan M. Dershowitz is the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law, Emeritus, at Harvard Law School. His new book is “The Case Against the Democratic House Impeaching Trump.” You can follow him on Twitter @AlanDersh.

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/441726-alan-dershowitz-barr-is-right-mueller-is-wrong

Dos Equis

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Now this is important--forgot to add it
The regulations also state that in order to fire Mueller, there has to be a good reason — specifically "misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of departmental policies."   
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/apr/12/can-donald-trump-fire-special-counsel-robert-muell/

Again, why are we even talking about this?  Trump didn't fire Mueller.  Mueller's investigation was not impeded. 

Prudence

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Again, why are we even talking about this?  Trump didn't fire Mueller.  Mueller's investigation was not impeded. 
Okay--I read that just now--and I'll comment on that in a second. I wanna catch you while ur here---
First off--He's on FOX babbling all this stuff--so I've heard it before. As much as he says he's NOT for Trump--he appears to be.

However--as much as I like him, he's not the one making the decisions. 

Moreover...: “I could not think Alan is more wrong.” Journal articles have been published debunking his point of view.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/why-alan-dershowitz-lion-of-the-left-is-arguing-for-donald-trump-20180302-p4z2i7.html
Now--here is a wacky one--but you NEVER KNOW..
Dershowitz is a sexual predator that owes Trump a favor.
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7mw5yh/why_is_alan_dershowitz_a_liberal_defending_trump/
As wacky as it is--it's LACED with facts.

Prudence

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Again, why are we even talking about this?  Trump didn't fire Mueller.  Mueller's investigation was not impeded. 
Then let Don Mcgahn testify. Problem solved.
Trying to obstruct--without success--is STILL obstruction.


Dos Equis

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Okay--I read that just now--and I'll comment on that in a second. I wanna catch you while ur here---
First off--He's on FOX babbling all this stuff--so I've heard it before. As much as he says he's NOT for Trump--he appears to be.

However--as much as I like him, he's not the one making the decisions. 

Moreover...: “I could not think Alan is more wrong.” Journal articles have been published debunking his point of view.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/why-alan-dershowitz-lion-of-the-left-is-arguing-for-donald-trump-20180302-p4z2i7.html
Now--here is a wacky one--but you NEVER KNOW..
Dershowitz is a sexual predator that owes Trump a favor.
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7mw5yh/why_is_alan_dershowitz_a_liberal_defending_trump/
As wacky as it is--it's LACED with facts.


Pretty empty post. 

Dos Equis

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Then let Don Mcgahn testify. Problem solved.
Trying to obstruct--without success--is STILL obstruction.



You don't get it.  There is no "problem."  The investigation happened, without obstruction.  The investigation is over. 

Prudence

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Nooooo--you don't get it.
The investigation is NOT over. There are many questions to be answered. No---you DO get it...this is just your way of making your point.
Not working.
If this were over then we'd all have to accept it. Mueller said he didnt like the way Barr handed it over because KEY POINTS weren't  made public.
What's not to understand?
Don't be mad--

chaos

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Whaaaaaat??
 I don't understand what u mean. The question is whether or not Trump told Mcgahn to fire Mueller. Mcgahn said he did. That's OBSTRUCTION.
How did Trump telling McGahn to fire Mueller obstruct the investigation?
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Dos Equis

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How did Trump telling McGahn to fire Mueller obstruct the investigation?

Yeah I've asked him that question.  He cannot answer it because he thinks the Mueller investigation is ongoing.  Even though it's over.

chaos

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Yeah I've asked him that question.  He cannot answer it because he thinks the Mueller investigation is ongoing.  Even though it's over.
He's not very smart, probably in law enforcement. :D
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!