Phil Heath looking bloofy on 05-12-19

[Bevo]

Holding way too much estrogen and water to be off completely off I would say low cruise type dosages of HGH and Test, props to him for having the genetics and the genetic response to being able to get ready in 20 weeks IMO, you wouldn't do that without a solid base, whilst he looks way off, he's probably the least all drugs guy around if whats said is true.

Bodybuilding is a drug sport, so are many sports they just aren't as obvious or require as much abuse. Training and dieting for a contest drugs is gruelling in my opinion far more difficult than playing many sports. The sacrifice is 24hrs a day and everything you eat, no other sport is as intense during this phase, even cutting weight for UFC boxing its hard but its all about making weight not being full hard etc as well, just an opinion. I wouldn't call them athletes but i wouldn't call them not athletes either. Its a beauty contest more than a competitive sports meet, but it does require training in a gym as many sports do.

Good post

Levrone of course was the same, old school way of doing things

I recall dexter did this too in the past but now he seems more all in, carrying more mass than he ever did off season wise

That’ll explain how he’s able to be in the “sport” for as long as he did

If Levrone never stopped training hard and competing after 2003, I bet he would have def been competitive all the way into his mid 40’s

[Matt]

Did Getbig's own "che" ever box Oscar de la Hoya?

I once read that che laid waste to Oscar de la Hoya.

Is that true?

[TheShape.]

Shawn already said this is the way he’s been in the off-season since he turned pro and now everyone on him. But let’s do a hypothetical, there is 19 weeks left. Shawn is 270-275 tops right now. When he won the Olympia he was what? 252? Let say he’s around 14-16% ON THE HIGH SIDE and let’s say he’s on stage at 3.5-4.5%.

Take into consideration that he has been training everyday with light cardio and hes is completely off gear. Yup, he likes to live like a normal person in the off-season while enjoying his family. Personally, he’s the smartest pro up there because he knows he need to

Recover, Travel (almost all year) taking care of his sponsor obligations, etc

He’s got almost 5 months of prep. What do you? If I calculated correctly, he’d would have lose and trend at losing about 1/2% per week. How hard do you suppose that would be given 19 weeks?

Ideally if it were myself, if I was stage ready at 250 lbs lean I would drop down to 190-200 lbs lean until it was time to train seriously for the next show. I think my main criticism is posing on a stage as the worlds top bodybuilder looking like that, I wouldn’t pose at all if I was out of shape. I know he’ll come to the show ready but my problem lies with the modern bodybuilding methods.

[Deacon Jeschin]

He looks 1000x better than this guy

Hahahahaha….  The poster boy for "All Drugs."


Take the needle out of his ass and he looks like somebody who casually trains at the local Planet Fitness.

[SF1900]

Yeah, no one said was but the lifestyle is and seriously dude, you and everyone else that brings up the drugs and thinking it’s ALL about that need to pull your heads out

Coach, you are obviously going to be biased.

The problem with you is that you think you're the only one who has ever competed, trained with other professionals and/or amateurs, or know people in the game. You realize many people here, including myself, have either competed or trained with other guys who competed. I have trained with a fair share of competitive bodybuilders, both people who compete in "natural" shows, as well as NPC shows. Hell, I was getting ready for a contest until I had to pull out because of a double hernia. You are not the only one in the know.

Anyway, look at Shaun Rhoden's offseason picture. That picture clearly demonstrates, to a large degree, all drugs. If someone can lose that quickly and gain that quickly come contest time, its a testament to the power of drugs. Someone even posted a study that those who were on PED's gained more muscle without even training than those who were not on PED's and trained.

Of course, if one wants to be a competitive bodybuilder, one still has to train and follow a diet. However, drugs are the largest factor in the equation, as evidenced by Rhoden's drastic transformation (off season vs. on season). Not to mention that people here have already stated countless time that many of the pros train and diet like shit, yet are still monsters. Bodybuilding, for the most part, is a chemical warfare. Yet, you still downplay the equation of PEDs. You are not being honest with yourself.

[Coach is Back!]

Coach, you are obviously going to be biased.

The problem with you is that you think you're the only one who has ever competed, trained with other professionals and/or amateurs, or know people in the game. You realize many people here, including myself, have either competed or trained with other guys who competed. I have trained with a fair share of competitive bodybuilders, both people who compete in "natural" shows, as well as NPC shows. Hell, I was getting ready for a contest until I had to pull out because of a double hernia. You are not the only one in the know.

Anyway, look at Shaun Rhoden's offseason picture. That picture clearly demonstrates, to a large degree, all drugs. If someone can lose that quickly and gain that quickly come contest time, its a testament to the power of drugs. Someone even posted a study that those who were on PED's gained more muscle without even training than those who were not on PED's and trained.

Of course, if one wants to be a competitive bodybuilder, one still has to train and follow a diet. However, drugs are the largest factor in the equation, as evidenced by Rhoden's drastic transformation (off season vs. on season). Not to mention that people here have already stated countless time that many of the pros train and diet like shit, yet are still monsters. Bodybuilding, for the most part, is a chemical warfare. Yet, you still downplay the equation of PEDs. You are not being honest with yourself.

I don’t have time to read all of this so I’ll just address you thinking I’m the only one. No, I’m not the only one and the most of the people that have competed at a higher level, trained with and have prepared pros are laughing their asses off right now thinking that like minded thinkers like you know more or have been there.

Do I down play the PED factor, of course not but I’m tired reading incessant bullshit that it’s “all drugs” and if that were the case there would be no need for dieting or training but I’m going digress on this by just saying that most on here are going by pure speculation. No, you don’t know what you’re talking about simply because there are a million factors that no one took into consideration during his off-season including that bonehead Trigili and a few others that claim to be “experts” but literally parrot everything everyone says on here minus the drugs because like you, he didn’t think things through yet spouted his bullshit. Same with this “Ivan” clown (who the fuck is he again?)

Everyone has their opinion but for Christ sake at least have some common sense about it. Calling someone “lazy” because he doesn’t fit your idea of what off-season should look like is naive at best.

“The others on stage looked better, why didn’t he?”

Here’s your answer.

They’ve already competed 2/3 times this year and it’s MUCH easier to stay lean going into this GUEST POSING appearance. He and Aceto know better than anyone as to when to start his prep, not you, not me not anyone else on this board.

Am I saying Shawn will win again? Who knows but I can tell you if he doesn’t and he takes a 2nd 3rd 4th or whatever all you’re going to hear from the ones that think they know best is “I told you so” which in reality wouldn’t validate shit.

[Hulkotron]

Fear not, I still think you're a canard spewing fuckwad of a typist.  You started this chimpleton.

Please moderate your tone.

[XFACTOR]

I don’t have time to read all of this so I’ll just address you thinking I’m the only one. No, I’m not the only one and the most of the people that have competed at a higher level, trained with and have prepared pros are laughing their asses off right now thinking that like minded thinkers like you know more or have been there.

Do I down play the PED factor, of course not but I’m tired reading incessant bullshit that it’s “all drugs” and if that were the case there would be no need for dieting or training but I’m going digress on this by just saying that most on here are going by pure speculation. No, you don’t know what you’re talking about simply because there are a million factors that no one took into consideration during his off-season including that bonehead Trigili and a few others that claim to be “experts” but literally parrot everything everyone says on here minus the drugs because like you, he didn’t think things through yet spouted his bullshit. Same with this “Ivan” clown (who the fuck is he again?)

Everyone has their opinion but for Christ sake at least have some common sense about it. Calling someone “lazy” because he doesn’t fit your idea of what off-season should look like is naive at best.

“The others on stage looked better, why didn’t he?”

Here’s your answer.

They’ve already competed 2/3 times this year and it’s MUCH easier to stay lean going into this GUEST POSING appearance. He and Aceto know better than anyone as to when to start his prep, not you, not me not anyone else on this board.

Am I saying Shawn will win again? Who knows but I can tell you if he doesn’t and he takes a 2nd 3rd 4th or whatever all you’re going to hear from the ones that think they know best is “I told you so” which in reality wouldn’t validate shit.

Genetics is number 1.  Nothing trumps that. 

If you take two people same size/weight similar genetics have them train and eat the same.  Put one on drugs and the other natural, the difference would not just be huge it would be astounding. That really is the testament to drugs.  I've done this with my own self so I know. 

[SF1900]

I don’t have time to read all of this so I’ll just address you thinking I’m the only one. No, I’m not the only one and the most of the people that have competed at a higher level, trained with and have prepared pros are laughing their asses off right now thinking that like minded thinkers like you know more or have been there.

Do I down play the PED factor, of course not but I’m tired reading incessant bullshit that it’s “all drugs” and if that were the case there would be no need for dieting or training but I’m going digress on this by just saying that most on here are going by pure speculation. No, you don’t know what you’re talking about simply because there are a million factors that no one took into consideration during his off-season including that bonehead Trigili and a few others that claim to be “experts” but literally parrot everything everyone says on here minus the drugs because like you, he didn’t think things through yet spouted his bullshit. Same with this “Ivan” clown (who the fuck is he again?)

Everyone has their opinion but for Christ sake at least have some common sense about it. Calling someone “lazy” because he doesn’t fit your idea of what off-season should look like is naive at best.

“The others on stage looked better, why didn’t he?”

Here’s your answer.

They’ve already competed 2/3 times this year and it’s MUCH easier to stay lean going into this GUEST POSING appearance. He and Aceto know better than anyone as to when to start his prep, not you, not me not anyone else on this board.

Am I saying Shawn will win again? Who knows but I can tell you if he doesn’t and he takes a 2nd 3rd 4th or whatever all you’re going to hear from the ones that think they know best is “I told you so” which in reality wouldn’t validate shit.

I don't have time to read all of that, so I just read the first paragraph.

I don't have to be an "expert" to know that currently, Rhoden looks like an average gym rat, and will transform into a monster in a matter of months. That's the power of drugs, above all else.

Again, I am not saying one doesn't have to train and diet. However, training and diet are a small equation compared to genetics and drugs. You just don't want to admit this fact because you're currently in the game and train at Gold's. You don't want to piss anyone off. I get it. But, we all know the power of drugs. IFBB tries to dupe people into believing otherwise--they try to overemphasize diet and training and supplementation, when it's really about drugs.

[Dave D]

Coach, you are obviously going to be biased.

The problem with you is that you think you're the only one who has ever competed, trained with other professionals and/or amateurs, or know people in the game. You realize many people here, including myself, have either competed or trained with other guys who competed. I have trained with a fair share of competitive bodybuilders, both people who compete in "natural" shows, as well as NPC shows. Hell, I was getting ready for a contest until I had to pull out because of a double hernia. You are not the only one in the know.

Anyway, look at Shaun Rhoden's offseason picture. That picture clearly demonstrates, to a large degree, all drugs. If someone can lose that quickly and gain that quickly come contest time, its a testament to the power of drugs. Someone even posted a study that those who were on PED's gained more muscle without even training than those who were not on PED's and trained.

Of course, if one wants to be a competitive bodybuilder, one still has to train and follow a diet. However, drugs are the largest factor in the equation, as evidenced by Rhoden's drastic transformation (off season vs. on season). Not to mention that people here have already stated countless time that many of the pros train and diet like shit, yet are still monsters. Bodybuilding, for the most part, is a chemical warfare. Yet, you still downplay the equation of PEDs. You are not being honest with yourself.

Bodybuilding at the professional level is ALL training and diet.

Tom Prince said if you want to be a pro you can never miss a workout. NEVER.

[SF1900]

Bodybuilding at the professional level is ALL training and diet.

Tom Prince said if you want to be a pro you can never miss a workout. NEVER.

What happens if the person takes a lot of drugs and misses one work out?

[Dave D]

What happens if the person takes a lot of drugs and misses one work out?

That person can be a top amateur or you can wait until you are 43 to become Mr. Olympia.

[Coach is Back!]

Genetics is number 1.  Nothing trumps that. 

If you take two people same size/weight similar genetics have them train and eat the same.  Put one on drugs and the other natural, the difference would not just be huge it would be astounding. That really is the testament to drugs.  I've done this with my own self so I know. 

BINGO!

As to your other point, of course, but in that same token you can take the bottom rung of pros put them on the same gear, same training (diet of course would differ from person to person) and those at the bottom will never come close to the top level guys.

Shawns strong points is that he doesn't really have any strong points, he's well balanced, good lines and good symmetry. Also take into consideration that this guy is what? 45-46 years old?

[SF1900]

BINGO!

As to your other point, of course, but in that same token you can take the bottom rung of pros put them on the same gear, same training (diet of course would differ from person to person) and those at the bottom will never come close to the top level guys.

Shawns strong points is that he doesn't really have any strong points, he's well balanced, good lines and good symmetry. Also take into consideration that this guy is what? 45-46 years old?

Yet, the IFBB pros who are at the bottom of the rung are still monsters because of drugs.

[Humble Narcissist]

Look, if Phil came in with a vacuum, revamped abdominal wall and everything was how he usually brings it, he's the GOAT. But the revamped abdominal wall isn't going to happen.  His abs wall is riddled with the effects of Palumboism and they've begin merging into what will appear to the viewing audience as a single abdominal wall. This is his second surgery, he'll be 40 in Dec. I'm not saying it can't be done because he is a champion we've seen over and over again, deserved or not. I'm not questioning his effort, I'm questioning his body's ability to be what it needs to be to win again.  I think he would have already fixed it by now if he could.  He should be wearing some sort of compression for his ab wall (waist trainer), he should fast and vacuum, and not just work his rectus abdominus but his transverse and other core stabilizer muscles. Breathing exercises for his diaphragm as well. It would improve it, not to sure what he's already doing.

If Phil came in with no gut and could do a vacuum pose like they did decades ago while keeping all of his mass everywhere else he would be the most bad ass looking bodybuilder in history, I agree.

[Coach is Back!]

Yet, the IFBB pros who are at the bottom of the rung are still monsters because of drugs.

Dude, what's your point? There are drugs everywhere. "Natural" bodybuilding, Instagram models, unless you go to a Curves your average gym rat is more than likely on a gram a week or more, your neighbor, your civil servants, military, etc what I'm saying is the ones that you think are the least likey to be on gear are on, maybe not on a "pro stack" (whatever that means) and if they haven't (meaning regular non-competitive gym rat bodybuilder) they have or will certainly inquire about it sooner or later because very few want to continue going to the gym yielding the same results.

I would also assume that most that think of a "pro stack" are probably thinking of that ridiculous stack that went around that supposedly killed Dallas McCarver. If that's the thought process, it's wrong.

[Hypertrophy]

Dude, what's your point? There are drugs everywhere. "Natural" bodybuilding, Instagram models, unless you go to a Curves your average gym rat is more than likely on a gram a week or more, your neighbor, your civil servants, military, etc what I'm saying is the ones that you think are the least likey to be on gear are on, maybe not on a "pro stack" (whatever that means) and if they haven't (meaning regular non-competitive gym rat bodybuilder) they have and will certainly inquire about it sooner or later because very few want to continue going to the gym yielding the same results.

I would also assume that most that think of a "pro stack" are probably thinking of that ridiculous stack that went around that supposedly killed Dallas McCarver. If that's the thought process, it's wrong.

Yes that is correct- most PED users are not professional bodybuilders. Not by a long shot:

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/steroids-other-appearance-performance-enhancing-drugs-apeds/who-uses-anabolic-steroids

[SF1900]

Dude, what's your point? There are drugs everywhere. "Natural" bodybuilding, Instagram models, unless you go to a Curves your average gym rat is more than likely on a gram a week or more, your neighbor, your civil servants, military, etc what I'm saying is the ones that you think are the least likey to be on gear are on, maybe not on a "pro stack" (whatever that means) and if they haven't (meaning regular non-competitive gym rat bodybuilder) they have or will certainly inquire about it sooner or later because very few want to continue going to the gym yielding the same results.

I would also assume that most that think of a "pro stack" are probably thinking of that ridiculous stack that went around that supposedly killed Dallas McCarver. If that's the thought process, it's wrong.

My point is your incessant need to underemphasize drugs and overemphasize training and diet. Nothing more, nothing less.

[XFACTOR]

My point is your incessant need to underemphasize drugs and overemphasize training and diet. Nothing more, nothing less.

No way he’s under emphasizing drugs. Training, diet, and sleep are critical but all of us know drugs are an essential part of looking like a jacked bb.

[SF1900]

No way he’s under emphasizing drugs. Training, diet, and sleep are critical but all of us know drugs are an essential part of looking like a jacked bb.

But if you had to weigh the importance:

Drugs > training and diet

I don’t buy for a minute that they are all equally important. Drugs are WAY more important to bodybuilding success than any other factor (other than genetics).

[Coach is Back!]

My point is your incessant need to underemphasize drugs and overemphasize training and diet. Nothing more, nothing less.

No, I'm not underemphasizing it, I'm saying you cannot have one without the other and equal effort has to be put into all three with diet coming first because to get the optimal effect of the steroid you have to have an eating plan that coincides with the use. I will say, nowadays you have to search wide and far to find anyone that trains hard anymore maybe not realizing that also makes a difference come game day.

[Fortress]

But if you had to weigh the importance:

Drugs > training and diet

I don’t buy for a minute that they are all equally important. Drugs are WAY more important to bodybuilding success than any other factor (other than genetics).

This is most accurate.

I’ve hung and trained extensively with top-level pros (even a Mr. Olympia) and drugs and good-to-great genetic response to said drugs is far and away the prevailing factor to success.

[Humble Narcissist]

This is most accurate.

I’ve hung and trained extensively with top-level pros (even a Mr. Olympia) and drugs and good-to-great genetic response to said drugs is far and away the prevailing factor to success.

You mean Paul Dillet wasn't known for his intense training and disciplined dieting?

[Zillotch]

But if you had to weigh the importance:

Drugs > training and diet

Drugs are WAY more important to bodybuilding success than any other factor

drugs and good-to-great genetic response to said drugs is far and away the prevailing factor to success.

x2

[Fortress]

You mean Paul Dillet wasn't known for his intense training and disciplined dieting?

I wasn’t even thinking about him, but damn, yeah, there’s one for the ages.

No training sophistication or effort to speak of, a “casual” diet and boatloads of good gear, and ... voila! Prime Dillett. An absolute monster and top-10 Olympia finalist.