Phil Heath looking bloofy on 05-12-19

[Coach is Back!]

Jesus fucking Christ people. No one isn’t saying drugs aren’t big part of it. But to go back and forth on a fucking supposed bodybuilding board debating whether someone would or wouldn’t be shit on gear is a retarded debate from anyone posting in this thread.

[Coach is Back!]

I witnessed one NPC National champion eat a diet of total shit/inconsistency, complete with daily junk-food excursion runs, step onstage huge and ripped.

His drug use was epic and on-point, though.

Witnessed the whole thing.

He won.

I guarantee his entire diet wasn’t what you thought it was. Up until this week I was having 2-4 cheat meals and will probably have one before I start depletion on Saturday. If you’re lean enough and ahead of schedule you NEED to have to that. But I seriously doubt his entire prep consisted of eating shit. You don’t have to give his name on here but feel free to IM his name. I’m curious to know who this is.

[SF1900]

Jesus fucking Christ people. No one isn’t saying drugs aren’t big part of it. But to go back and forth on a fucking supposed bodybuilding board debating whether someone would or wouldn’t be shit on gear is a retarded debate from anyone posting in this thread.

No, we are saying that drugs are more important than diet and training.

You disagree. So be it.

[Coach is Back!]

No, we are saying that drugs are more important than diet and training.

You disagree. So be it.

Feel free to scroll through these 5 pages or any place else or as far back as you want to find where I said drugs were not as important.

[TheShape.]

I would like to add in to my original comments that I believe genetics are indeed more important than drugs, there are many many drug users out there and a lot of them look like bloated garbage. With my genetics at this point in my life my metabolism allows me to eat whatever I want and stay 8-9% body fat.

[SF1900]

Feel free to scroll through these 5 pages or any place else or as far back as you want to find where I said drugs were not as important.

Not as important.

More important.

[Coach is Back!]

Not as important.

More important.

Nope. Just as in most cases and as I’ve stated you can’t have one work as effectively without the other. I’ll also add that despite popular belief, more is not better and I’ve know pros as well as state and National level competitors win on half or less that what their nearest competitors ran. I know a pro right now going into the NY Pro on less than a gram and half and looks phenomenal.

[The Scott]

Drugs and only drugs are the determining factor that separates the No's from the Pros. If any say otherwise you need only look at a woMan on drugs and compare it to a real woman that also does bodybuilding.

One of the most honest things ever said to me was by Robby Robinson in the 70s.  When I asked him what made the difference between someone like him and someone like me he said it was the drugs. He had a sense of humor about it too. He said that when somebody would say that a champion's body came out of a syringe he would laughingly reply, it also comes in pill form.  This was at the original Gold's Gym.  A great place to train and learn.

Some people get upset when the truth exposes the lie that is what bodybuilding has become. If you accept that your "foundation" is built on a façade, then it becomes easier to accept the temporary aspect of it all.  Arnold's first American girlfriend said that when the Oak was off the dope, it was as if he had a hangover.  I've seen 70s era champions off the sauce.  They looked a lot like most of us.  Nothing wrong with that.  They took time off.  I tend to think that's why they will live a lot longer than these mental midgets of today.

Today's idiots are never off the juice. They are however, out of their freakin' minds.

[Royalty]

Drugs and only drugs are the determining factor that separates the No's from the Pros. If any say otherwise you need only look at a woMan on drugs and compare it to a real woman that also does bodybuilding.

One of the most honest things ever said to me was by Robby Robinson in the 70s.  When I asked him what made the difference between someone like him and someone like me he said it was the drugs. He had a sense of humor about it too. He said that when somebody would say that a champion's body came out of a syringe he would laughingly reply, it also comes in pill form.  This was at the original Gold's Gym.  A great place to train and learn.

Some people get upset when the truth exposes the lie that is what bodybuilding has become. If you accept that your "foundation" is built on a façade, then it becomes easier to accept the temporary aspect of it all.  Arnold's first American girlfriend said that when the Oak was off the dope, it was as if he had a hangover.  I've seen 70s era champions off the sauce.  They looked a lot like most of us.  Nothing wrong with that.  They took time off.  I tend to think that's why they will live a lot longer than these mental midgets of today.

Today's idiots are never off the juice. They are however, out of their freakin' minds.

As time passes, from one generation to the the next, people seem to become mentally weaker

[honest]

Yeah all your average gym rat has to do to look like Arnold is just take what Arnold took. Lol, have to remember its getbig. Honestly.

[The Scott]

Yeah all your average gym rat has to do to look like Arnold is just take what Arnold took. Lol, have to remember its getbig. Honestly.

No...All your average gym rat has to do to get BIGGER and STRONGER in the SHORTEST amount of time is take drugs.  It ain't rocket science but it is  the TRUTH.

Honestly.   

[che]

Drugs and only drugs are the determining factor that separates the No's from the Pros. If any say otherwise you need only look at a woMan on drugs and compare it to a real woman that also does bodybuilding.

One of the most honest things ever said to me was by Robby Robinson in the 70s.  When I asked him what made the difference between someone like him and someone like me he said it was the drugs. He had a sense of humor about it too. He said that when somebody would say that a champion's body came out of a syringe he would laughingly reply, it also comes in pill form.  This was at the original Gold's Gym.  A great place to train and learn.

Some people get upset when the truth exposes the lie that is what bodybuilding has become. If you accept that your "foundation" is built on a façade, then it becomes easier to accept the temporary aspect of it all.  Arnold's first American girlfriend said that when the Oak was off the dope, it was as if he had a hangover.  I've seen 70s era champions off the sauce.  They looked a lot like most of us.  Nothing wrong with that.  They took time off.  I tend to think that's why they will live a lot longer than these mental midgets of today.

Today's idiots are never off the juice. They are however, out of their freakin' minds.

Great post , The Scott

[pellius]

I never said that one does not have to train or diet to be successful. However, an IFBB pro can have subpar training and subapr diet and still likely win a pro show (or compete in pro level shows) if they have the right genetics and the right drugs. A perfect example is Paul Dillet. Again, that is the power of drugs. Not to mention, all the pros who shrink to nothing once they go off gear, despite training and following a good meal plan.

Again, I never said diet and training were not important. What I am saying is that drugs are WAY more important than diet and training when it comes to the success of a bodybuilder, with diet and training the icing on the cake.

I wonder what would have happened if Dillet had the drive and intensity of Yates. I believe Dillet was more genetically gifted than Yates. In fact, I think Dillet was the most genetically gifted bber ever.

So, yes, genetics is still number one, but there is some wiggle room.

[SF1900]

Yeah all your average gym rat has to do to look like Arnold is just take what Arnold took. Lol, have to remember its getbig. Honestly.

Genetic response to drugs is also very important.

Genetics > drugs

Drugs > training and diet

[BB]

Genetic response to drugs is also very important.

Genetics > drugs

Drugs > training and diet

.

[Bevo]

And still outweigh you by 30lbs and look better

Honest question:

I recall you started competing very young, around 18? Means you been on gear for almost 40 years?

Have you ever been completely off all steroids completely in recent times?

Not a knock on you, curious to know

[Bevo]

I wonder what would have happened if Dillet had the drive and intensity of Yates. I believe Dillet was more genetically gifted than Yates. In fact, I think Dillet was the most genetically gifted bber ever.

So, yes, genetics is still number one, but there is some wiggle room.

I would say flex wheeler but they are close, dillet being 6’1 was def more imposing

[Humble Narcissist]

I wonder what would have happened if Dillet had the drive and intensity of Yates. I believe Dillet was more genetically gifted than Yates. In fact, I think Dillet was the most genetically gifted bber ever.

So, yes, genetics is still number one, but there is some wiggle room.

His career would have been almost exactly the same because of drugs, that's the point.

[Coach is Back!]

Honest question:

I recall you started competing very young, around 18? Means you been on gear for almost 40 years?

Have you ever been completely off all steroids completely in recent times?

Not a knock on you, curious to know

I’ve been off more than I’ve been on over the course of those years. I was off for 7mos before this prep and when on I’ve never thought more was better

[SF1900]

Nope. Just as in most cases and as I’ve stated you can’t have one work as effectively without the other. I’ll also add that despite popular belief, more is not better and I’ve know pros as well as state and National level competitors win on half or less that what their nearest competitors ran. I know a pro right now going into the NY Pro on less than a gram and half and looks phenomenal.

You claimed that Fortress really didn’t know what his friends who were competing were eating, yet you claim to know what other people use in terms of drugs.

[Coach is Back!]

You claimed that Fortress really didn’t know what his friends who were competing were eating, yet you claim to know what other people use in terms of drugs.

And where did I claim that. You still (very few) seem to get the drug/diet thing so why keep on explaining it?

[Dave D]

And where did I claim that. You still (very few) seem to get the drug/diet thing so why keep on explaining it?

Hes referring to this:

I guarantee his entire diet wasn’t what you thought it was. Up until this week I was having 2-4 cheat meals and will probably have one before I start depletion on Saturday. If you’re lean enough and ahead of schedule you NEED to have to that. But I seriously doubt his entire prep consisted of eating shit. You don’t have to give his name on here but feel free to IM his name. I’m curious to know who this is.

[Coach is Back!]

Hes referring to this:

He said I claimed to know what others used in terms of drugs. It’s much easier to determine certain aspects of a persons diet leading up to show than it is someone’s cycle. I simply stated that there was no way this person ate dirty day in and day out for a show.

[SF1900]

He said I claimed to know what others used in terms of drugs. It’s much easier to determine certain aspects of a persons diet leading up to show than it is someone’s cycle. I simply stated that there was no way this person ate dirty day in and day out for a show.

You said “I guarantee his entire diet wasn’t what you thought it was..”

This implies that Fortress was wrong about his friends diet.

You could also be wrong about the people’s you know drug use.

[Kahn.N.Singh]

On the one hand, Fortress speaks from empirical experience. He claimed not to "think" what his friend was eating, he claimed to "witness" everyday examples of dirty eating.

On the other hand, Coach lacks Fortress's privileged epistemic standpoint, but is able, without any evidentiary proof, to "guarantee" that Fortress' account is not reliable.

Let's see: Slam dunk - Coach wins.