Vasayo MLM

[Agnostic007]

Had dinner with a couple a few days ago. We are relatively new to Tampa Bay. My wife made friends with this latina woman who is married to a Gringo like me. He's done sales most of his life and got involved in the BP horizon 6 billion dollar compensation to business and made close to $800K filing claims all along the Florida coast. So I'm thinking legit businessman. As we are walking out to the parking lot after dinner, he starts talking to me about a business opportunity that I might be interested in. "How would you like to make an extra $20K a month?" Well, I do alrigght retired but yeah, 20K a month with little effort would be nice. After an hour in the parking lot he texts me the info on Vasayo, and is friends with the founder, Dallan Larson. I say, sure let me do some checking.

Turns out, Dallan was the founder of another company that sold Acai Berry drinks and made millions but got sued... Mon Avie was the original company. How does a 53 year old lifetime salesman fall for such crap? He talked about 20 k a month, luxury trips, all the things I heard all my life from friends who bought into Amway, Scentsy and any number of MLM schemes.  Its sad really

[BB]

All it takes is a few suckers, and as long as you're in the toppish area of the pyramid, you're still making out.  Perhaps he's making money at it.

Semi related documentary -

.

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

[Agnostic007]

Can your expound on MLM? You said you can't sell diet supplements if you're fat. Do you think that hindered your success?? I'm in pretty good shape, 210 lbs at 6' at 56 years old.

[Al Doggity]

Had dinner with a couple a few days ago. We are relatively new to Tampa Bay. My wife made friends with this latina woman who is married to a Gringo like me. He's done sales most of his life and got involved in the BP horizon 6 billion dollar compensation to business and made close to $800K filing claims all along the Florida coast. So I'm thinking legit businessman. As we are walking out to the parking lot after dinner, he starts talking to me about a business opportunity that I might be interested in. "How would you like to make an extra $20K a month?" Well, I do alrigght retired but yeah, 20K a month with little effort would be nice. After an hour in the parking lot he texts me the info on Vasayo, and is friends with the founder, Dallan Larson. I say, sure let me do some checking.

Turns out, Dallan was the founder of another company that sold Acai Berry drinks and made millions but got sued... Mon Avie was the original company. How does a 53 year old lifetime salesman fall for such crap? He talked about 20 k a month, luxury trips, all the things I heard all my life from friends who bought into Amway, Scentsy and any number of MLM schemes.  Its sad really

If he realizes how you actually make money is not from selling but from recruiting, then he is smarter than 99% of people who do it and might actually be a smart (but not necessarily ethical) businessman.

[Agnostic007]

If he realizes how you actually make money is not from selling but from recruiting, then he is smarter than 99% of people who do it and might actually be a smart (but not necessarily ethical) businessman.

That's what I got in my research is you're not selling a product, although the claim is "This product is revolutionary" you are selling a dream and recruitment is where the money is. to me that just has MLM written all over it

I thought about it and first of all, I'm not the salesman type. lastly, I'm already living my dream. My dream was to retire young, (53), with a comfortable pension, and travel. I'm doing that. It would take something spectacular to come out of retirement and start working again and an MLM product just isn't it

[Al Doggity]

That's what I got in my research is you're not selling a product, although the claim is "This product is revolutionary" you are selling a dream and recruitment is where the money is. to me that just has MLM written all over it

I thought about it and first of all, I'm not the salesman type. lastly, I'm already living my dream. My dream was to retire young, (53), with a comfortable pension, and travel. I'm doing that. It would take something spectacular to come out of retirement and start working again and an MLM product just isn't it

Yeah... I think you and I have talked about the fact that I'm in marketing and advertising before. I'm fascinated by the idea of network marketing and I think there are legitimate ways to make it work as a sustainable business for network members, but very few of these companies have business models that could result in someone making a nice living. I plan to start my own firm within the next two years or so and do occasional deep dives into the ins and out of mlm/network marketing. The truth of the matter is if the guys at the top of these companies weren't so greedy, some of these mlm  companies might actually be able to do right by their members.

Like the Lularoe video someone posted... it was doing fine and members were actually able to sell their product because it had a certain cachet.  But the owners of the company worried that their window would close, so they force-recruited too many sellers, that started delivering crappy product and they shat on their network. To top it off, they started a competing company to shield them from the bad press the original company's business practices generated.

They are an example on steroids, but it just goes to show that the failure in these companies has a lot to do with the people who run them. Network marketing is something that SHOULD work to some degree.

[Agnostic007]

Yeah... I think you and I have talked about the fact that I'm in marketing and advertising before. I'm fascinated by the idea of network marketing and I think there are legitimate ways to make it work as a sustainable business for network members, but very few of these companies have business models that could result in someone making a nice living. I plan to start my own firm within the next two years or so and do occasional deep dives into the ins and out of mlm/network marketing. The truth of the matter is if the guys at the top of these companies weren't so greedy, some of these mlm  companies might actually be able to do right by their members.

Like the Lularoe video someone posted... it was doing fine and members were actually able to sell their product because it had a certain cachet.  But the owners of the company worried that their window would close, so they force-recruited too many sellers, that started delivering crappy product and they shat on their network. To top it off, they started a competing company to shield them from the bad press the original company's business practices generated.

They are an example on steroids, but it just goes to show that the failure in these companies has a lot to do with the people who run them. Network marketing is something that SHOULD work to some degree.

Can't argue that,and I know that there are people who make millions off MLM. I truly think, and I may be wrong, that they are the equivalent of NFL players. Everyone thinks they will be making 20K a month but the truth is a small percentage actually do that.

[tres_taco_combo]

All it takes is a few suckers, and as long as you're in the toppish area of the pyramid, you're still making out.  Perhaps he's making money at it.

Semi related documentary -

.

classic Vice episode

[tres_taco_combo]

Had dinner with a couple a few days ago. We are relatively new to Tampa Bay. My wife made friends with this latina woman who is married to a Gringo like me. He's done sales most of his life and got involved in the BP horizon 6 billion dollar compensation to business and made close to $800K filing claims all along the Florida coast. So I'm thinking legit businessman. As we are walking out to the parking lot after dinner, he starts talking to me about a business opportunity that I might be interested in. "How would you like to make an extra $20K a month?" Well, I do alrigght retired but yeah, 20K a month with little effort would be nice. After an hour in the parking lot he texts me the info on Vasayo, and is friends with the founder, Dallan Larson. I say, sure let me do some checking.

Turns out, Dallan was the founder of another company that sold Acai Berry drinks and made millions but got sued... Mon Avie was the original company. How does a 53 year old lifetime salesman fall for such crap? He talked about 20 k a month, luxury trips, all the things I heard all my life from friends who bought into Amway, Scentsy and any number of MLM schemes.  Its sad really

I am a lifetime sales person - $20k a month doesn't come easy. it is hard work, long hours, getting told F off, having other sales ppl steal your business. - and getting some lucky breaks (right sales environment, right product, right manager) i always sat by the manager.... you get more deals/more leads when you are right next to the manager.

the MLM types never seem to be that educated and they sell you on the dream "work from home, take trips, no manager," blah blah.. its a scam.  it is not a sustainable long term business plan. you may get the random who has a solid run/good month/outlier but avoid it.


the MLM promises the easy way. with little hassle but one of the top qualities of a good sales person. is will power.. just like dieting for a show... can you suck it up? do you have will power?

first time I made $20k in 1 month, it was a big deal for me. i saved the paycheck as it was a huge win. i had a big chip on my shoulder/axe to grind with the world at the time -  i was in my early 20s

it was more of a trophy then a check. i pissed away the check on stupid shit (like any young sales person would)

[Agnostic007]

I am a lifetime sales person - $20k a month doesn't come easy. it is hard work, long hours, getting told F off, having other sales ppl steal your business. - and getting some lucky breaks (right sales environment, right product, right manager) i always sat by the manager.... you get more deals/more leads when you are right next to the manager.

the MLM types never seem to be that educated and they sell you on the dream "work from home, take trips, no manager," blah blah.. its a scam.  it is not a sustainable long term business plan. you may get the random who has a solid run/good month/outlier but avoid it.


first time I made $20k in 1 month, it was a big deal for me. i saved the paycheck as it was a huge win. i had a big chip on my shoulder/axe to grind with the world at the time -  i was in my early 20s

it was more of a trophy then a check. i pissed away the check on stupid shit (like any young sales person would)

That is a cool trophy!

[Agnostic007]

All it takes is a few suckers, and as long as you're in the toppish area of the pyramid, you're still making out.  Perhaps he's making money at it.

Semi related documentary -

.

Kind of how I pictured it.

[tres_taco_combo]

That is a cool trophy!

thank you.  I had an axe to grind at the time with peers. a grudge can be a great way make a lot of progress. 

[tres_taco_combo]

being good looking makes sales much much easier for sure - regardless of the product

[Purge_WTF]

 A friend of mine seems to have been suckered into a MLM scheme involving Monat hair care products. I wish her well.

[IroNat]

MLM businesses all work the same way.

You agree to buy at least a certain minimum amount of overpriced product/service per month.

You recruit other people who agree to buy  at least a certain minimum amount of overpriced product/service per month.

In other words, you find a lot of people who can be sold overpriced stuff.

They and you keep recruiting more people who do the same.

If you get into it early in the pyramid so you are near the top you can make out.

Note that I underlined overpriced.  The product/service is always overpriced in some way to generate the money to pay over-rides to the network.  Why buy stuff that is way over-priced?  The only reason is if you can grab some of that money.  You'd never overpay for the stuff otherwise.

It gets harder and harder to recruit new people the later you get into the network/pyramid because everybody who was ever interested has already  tried it.  This is why new MLMs are constantly starting up.  They have to be "new" to get recruits who are virgins.  Established MLMs like Amway have gone global (usually ASIA) to find new virgin recruits.  Asia is full of virgins.

If you go to the seminars/sales meetings with the big hitters of the company you will notice that those guys/women at the top are super salesman.  Real outliers.  They could sell ice cubes to Eskimos.  Lots of times these folks at the top are the same people who started the company or close associates of them.  In other words..insiders.

The average person will never make it big and just be a cog in the machine, over-paying for stuff they could buy for half as much anywhere else.

MLMs proliferate in difficult economic times when people lose their jobs, are unemployed, are desperate for extra money, etc.

Agnostic, you are not that person.  You are in a good place.  No need to fill up your garage with overpriced crap.

My advice is to avoid MLM like the plague.

[Kwon]

I am a lifetime sales person - $20k a month doesn't come easy. it is hard work, long hours, getting told F off, having other sales ppl steal your business. - and getting some lucky breaks (right sales environment, right product, right manager) i always sat by the manager.... you get more deals/more leads when you are right next to the manager.

the MLM types never seem to be that educated and they sell you on the dream "work from home, take trips, no manager," blah blah.. its a scam.  it is not a sustainable long term business plan. you may get the random who has a solid run/good month/outlier but avoid it.


the MLM promises the easy way. with little hassle but one of the top qualities of a good sales person. is will power.. just like dieting for a show... can you suck it up? do you have will power?

first time I made $20k in 1 month, it was a big deal for me. i saved the paycheck as it was a huge win. i had a big chip on my shoulder/axe to grind with the world at the time -  i was in my early 20s

it was more of a trophy then a check. i pissed away the check on stupid shit (like any young sales person would)

Good memory Taco!

[deadz]

A sucker is born everyday. Happy Birthday Agnostic, go for it I’m sure you will be a wealthy man in a month.

[ratherbebig]

just buy bitcoins. you cant lose on bitcoins. nobody can. its impossible to lose money on bitcoins.

[tres_taco_combo]

MLM businesses all work the same way.

You agree to buy at least a certain minimum amount of overpriced product/service per month.

You recruit other people who agree to buy  at least a certain minimum amount of overpriced product/service per month.

In other words, you find a lot of people who can be sold overpriced stuff.

They and you keep recruiting more people who do the same.

If you get into it early in the pyramid so you are near the top you can make out.

Note that I underlined overpriced.  The product/service is always overpriced in some way to generate the money to pay over-rides to the network.  Why buy stuff that is way over-priced?  The only reason is if you can grab some of that money.  You'd never overpay for the stuff otherwise.

It gets harder and harder to recruit new people the later you get into the network/pyramid because everybody who was ever interested has already  tried it.  This is why new MLMs are constantly starting up.  They have to be "new" to get recruits who are virgins.  Established MLMs like Amway have gone global (usually ASIA) to find new virgin recruits.  Asia is full of virgins.

If you go to the seminars/sales meetings with the big hitters of the company you will notice that those guys/women at the top are super salesman.  Real outliers.  They could sell ice cubes to Eskimos.  Lots of times these folks at the top are the same people who started the company or close associates of them.  In other words..insiders.

The average person will never make it big and just be a cog in the machine, over-paying for stuff they could buy for half as much anywhere else.

MLMs proliferate in difficult economic times when people lose their jobs, are unemployed, are desperate for extra money, etc.

Agnostic, you are not that person.  You are in a good place.  No need to fill up your garage with overpriced crap.

My advice is to avoid MLM like the plague.

they prey on the weak and sell the dream....

work from home, vacations, be your own boss, great innovative product!

they are not recruiting at universities looking for talent 

[Rascal full]

That is a cool trophy!

Nice one, I work in sales.......Respect

[deadz]

Agnostic is a 60+ man who still needs advice on MLM’s. 

[IroNat]

Agnostic is a 60+ man who still needs advice on MLM’s. 

Anybody can fall for this stuff.  The presentation is slick.

[Al Doggity]

Anybody can fall for this stuff.  The presentation is slick.

I feel like Agnostic is not in danger of falling for this, probably just a segue into talking about his experience and the whole bullshit industry.

I agree with your statement, though.  These businesses are predatory, but I think it's inaccurate to say that the victims are weak, stupid and unsophisticated.  Bernie  Madoff's ponzi scheme shared a lot of elements with MLM scams and in some ways it was even more glaring. Most of his victims and accomplices were wealthy and had knowledge of the inner workings of the financial industry.

MLM schemes are sophisticated. One of the things that makes them appealing is that, from a distance,  they are often built on solid business principles. But they also incorporate traditional scam techniques. It's not just down to them making big promises. A large portion of people who join these things just want to make a few extra bucks . MLMs often incorporate religious components. They obscure start up costs. They make it cost prohibitive to leave when it becomes clear that the "business" is a money pit.

[OlympiaGym]

http://worldfinancialgroup.com/