Bodybuilding and health

[Hypertrophy]

Is bodybuilding an attribute to health or a negative?  There are no legitimate studies on long time androgen use because of the hidden illegal use of the drugs.  Empirical knowledge will lead someone who isn't rationalization their use that it increases the likelihood of heart disease and strokes besides messing up the hormones in a person.  Outside of this it's the joint issues. I've been lifting for well over 40 years. Been  around the game a long time.

Drug free bodybuilding or weight training can be the key to a youthful body your entire life. It is the extreme lifting that causes problems. As you said, the joints take a beating.

I know many runners that walk like they are crippled. My brother in law was a sub 2:15 marathoner who ultimately stopped running at 40 due to Achilles tendon damage. One of my business colleagues had double hip replacement at 42 and he was a competitive runner since he was a teen. But I also know many cyclists and swimmers who never have a problem and continue these sports till they are past 70. It's all about impact and joint damage, no matter what sport.

Bodyweight exercises, when done wrong or to extremes, can screw your body up equally as bad. A few of my friends were gymnasts in college. They complain of shoulder issues like any powerlifter.

The guiding factor is moderation. If a movement hurts in the joints, stop it and figure out why. Too much weight, wrong execution, whatever.

[ratherbebig]

maybe in moderation is too much.

[Primemuscle]

Is bodybuilding an attribute to health or a negative?  There are no legitimate studies on long time androgen use because of the hidden illegal use of the drugs.  Empirical knowledge will lead someone who isn't rationalization their use that it increases the likelihood of heart disease and strokes besides messing up the hormones in a person.  Outside of this it's the joint issues. I've been lifting for well over 40 years. Been  around the game a long time.  All the 400lbs bench press guys that I know are a mess of orthopedic problems. The deadlift raw champion in my gym doesn't deadlift anymore because his back hurts. Arnold, Draper, Zane and a host of others have had wrecked shoulders.  Big Lou I believe has had his knee and hip replaced. Clarence Bass and John Grimek had their hip operations. I don't have to mention Yates and Coleman.

Sometimes I think it's the heavy trainers who have these problems but many are not. Chris Dickerson during his best years used moderate weights with many sets using short rests between sets. He can barely walk now. Granted he is old and he used to Olympic lift for athletic points during his AAU Mr. America days. Then you have guys like Danny Padilla who seems in great orthopedic shape.

Thought my body was bullet proof until I reached 55. Then my perfect shoulders started giving me a ton of trouble. Now in my 60's my left elbow, knee and I just hurt my Achilles but that's my fault.  I was a sprinter in college and decided to do 40 yard repeats. Thought I was flying until the 4th one. Then bam. Reality said you are an old man.  Limped to my car.

Will problems affect all? Of course not. Just like some life long smokers will live to be 80 something. It's still a risk to health.  Thinking about ways for an older trainer to work out while minimizing the damage. Should it be volume over low set intensity to failure?  

Yates said something to the effect that if you want to be your best you have to red line your training. When you do you increase the odds of the race car blowing up. His words were different but the sentiments I wrote are the same.

Old age is something no one can beat. Just would like to arrive in the best possible way.  I have some inspirations. One 73 year old guy in my gym lifts heavy and sprints like a young man.  He has a clear young man's voice and said he has some minor ortho issues but for the most part his body works. Another is a guy I know. He retired down to Florida and his wife died. He use to jog a couple miles every once in awhile in his adult life. He was lonely knowing no one in Florida so he joined a running club.  He was so dedicated to running soon he was doing around 20 miles at a pop.  He became the World champion for his 70's age group in the marathon. The guy then could do close to 7 minutes miles for 26 miles.  Now he's over 75 and I believe in a new age bracket. He is slowing down but I bet he can still be World champ again in his age bracket.

If this post stinks I will start putting up pictures of hot chicks.  Real young ones. No one over 60.  

Know your body and practice moderation when exercising.

[tres_taco_combo]

what is the definition of health?

bodybuilding can make you a healthier person or it can ruin your life. you can point to 2 extremes when you say "bodybuilding and health"
Jack Lalane and Derick Anthony as examples

I like the term Dan Duchaine said "life extensionist" now Dan was an addict but the term caught my attention and I have read his book several times and I am glad for bbing since it has made me a healthier, better, and happy person.  

I am in the off season and I consider myself more yogi then bber at this point in my life.  from a competitive bodybuilding stand point - i feel the best route is "grow into the shows"

also most everyone on this board would benefit from dropping weight - you are fatter than you think  - stop lying to yourself -

[ratherbebig]

well i just hurt my elbow! so much for healthy bodybuilding!

[IroNat]

stop lying to yourself -

[tres_taco_combo]

I was lying to myself for a long time....

good picture you posted

your ego is not your amigo

[oldtimer1]

Drug free bodybuilding or weight training can be the key to a youthful body your entire life. It is the extreme lifting that causes problems. As you said, the joints take a beating.

I know many runners that walk like they are crippled. My brother in law was a sub 2:15 marathoner who ultimately stopped running at 40 due to Achilles tendon damage. One of my business colleagues had double hip replacement at 42 and he was a competitive runner since he was a teen. But I also know many cyclists and swimmers who never have a problem and continue these sports till they are past 70. It's all about impact and joint damage, no matter what sport.

Bodyweight exercises, when done wrong or to extremes, can screw your body up equally as bad. A few of my friends were gymnasts in college. They complain of shoulder issues like any powerlifter.

The guiding factor is moderation. If a movement hurts in the joints, stop it and figure out why. Too much weight, wrong execution, whatever.

All physical endeavors carries risk. A sub 2:15 is a world class elite runner. That would come in the top 10-15 in Boston and NY Marathon. Sorry he was put out of commission with an injury. To achieve that elite level he pushed the gas pedal all the way down in training probably putting in over 100 mile weeks during some cycles in training. Yes, extreme running will has the potential for damage. I think it's a pretty safe bet that the majority are doing their body good going for  2 to 6 mile runs.

Regarding hip replacements we know many known bodybuilders who had to go that route. Then again how many people do you know that are couch potatoes that have had knee and hip replacement. I know a few. Maybe it's the extreme of non use and over use.

 Gymnast in college work for many hours and that's extreme. Not unusual for a college gymnast to be in the gym for 3 to 4 hours. On a side note have you seen some of these physiques on elite gymnasts?

You're right about natural bodybuilding. Lifting and doing cardio might be one of the greatest things you could do for your health.

[IRON CROSS]

The best things you can do to live to your max is to not live at all.

really  , but U hate travelling to far away places ,like Polynesia or Venice Beach or U A just penniless 

[Powerlift66]

I started lifting after seeing Rory leidelmeyer guess pose when I was 19. been lifting ever cents. now at age 62. I feel like lifting weights is the best thing I have ever done in my life. I powerlifter from age 30 to age 40, winning a lot of trophies. had a blast during this time, meet a lot of great people that I still see once in a while. from 40 to 55 did judo and mma training. had a garage thing going with full matts. trained a lot of young kids, had a blast during this time also, meeting great people. threw it all, I lifted, never haveing a long break except when I got sick.

now at age 62, my knees are shot. big time, I dont think squatting 600 pounds was the best thing I could have done for myself. but I can still walk on the treadmill, which I do 4 to 5 days a week. and I still can lift very heavy, just recently getting 11 reps with 315 on the bench press.
but now I lift fast, only 60 seconds between sets. at the end of 45 minutes im soaking in sweat. its still a great fucking feeling to walk out of the gym pumped up and sweating. almost better than sex. I see no reason to slow down, but I have made concessions. i dont deadlift, or do bent over rows anymore, as I feel im big enough. so I do a fast paced workout hitting all the different back machines. arms are pretty much pain free, shoulders hurt here and there, but nothing serious. could still military press the 110s if someone handed them to me.

so for me lifting has been a blessing. and Im going to lift till I croak. cant think of ever stopping. im on 75mgs of testosterone a week from my doctor. just a little taste, no more than this is perfect for me.

I see guys my age just going threw the motions at the gym and I think why?? you can still be intense at any age. I dont get there logic.

I take a statin for chol. I take blood pressue medicine, and metformin for pre diabetes. and a drug for A-FIB. and vitraga for a good boner when I need it.  im 5-10 and 268, which bothers me, but I never seem to lose weight. if I fast, I will get down to 260, but in a week im back up to 270. very weird how I cant lose weight. i do not want to Be 270, but I keep trying to lose weight.    judo

Good to see back on here posting Judo... Getting down a bit in weight might be a good thing for you as you age. 240 might be a good weight since you are thick.
Like oldtimer1 said about the heart, very important obviously, even more so for me now that Im getting up there. (Age 53). Never did much cardio (the standard 3 times a wee for 20 mins) was always so brutally boring.

Working on that muscle now (heart) is priority. On no meds at this age except OTC supps for lipids (Bergamot, Niacin, Red Yeast Rice) and of course my 100 mg. TRT weekly shot.
Good sleep is great for a person, really feeling it these days if I get shitty sleep. Can also tell  when sleep is good, makes a difference. Age wisely old iron warriors...

[Skylge]

I think you should contemplate taking steroids (or worse) only when you can make serious amounts of money by doing so
Say, American Football, baseball, pro cycling and such

Otherwise stay away from them

"Train heavy or go home", and many similar dumb texts I used to see in bodybuilding magazines in the past, and now online. Sergio Oliva had both hips replaced. Real bodybuilding is about health, and improving the quality of your life

Being able to do more with your body, and get more positive things out of every month and year

Even if you live very healthily, aging can still mess you up pretty bad

[IroNat]

im on 75mgs of testosterone a week from my doctor. just a little taste, no more than this is perfect for me.

I take a statin for chol. I take blood pressue medicine, and metformin for pre diabetes. and a drug for A-FIB. and vitraga for a good boner when I need it.  im 5-10 and 268, which bothers me, but I never seem to lose weight. if I fast, I will get down to 260, but in a week im back up to 270. very weird how I cant lose weight. i do not want to Be 270, but I keep trying to lose weight.    judo

You are a picture of health, no doubt due to your consistent training.

This is why you are obese and taking 5 drugs + another because you can't get it up.

I salute you, sir.

[oldtimer1]

I started lifting after seeing Rory leidelmeyer guess pose when I was 19. been lifting ever cents. now at age 62. I feel like lifting weights is the best thing I have ever done in my life. I powerlifter from age 30 to age 40, winning a lot of trophies. had a blast during this time, meet a lot of great people that I still see once in a while. from 40 to 55 did judo and mma training. had a garage thing going with full matts. trained a lot of young kids, had a blast during this time also, meeting great people. threw it all, I lifted, never haveing a long break except when I got sick.

now at age 62, my knees are shot. big time, I dont think squatting 600 pounds was the best thing I could have done for myself. but I can still walk on the treadmill, which I do 4 to 5 days a week. and I still can lift very heavy, just recently getting 11 reps with 315 on the bench press.
but now I lift fast, only 60 seconds between sets. at the end of 45 minutes im soaking in sweat. its still a great fucking feeling to walk out of the gym pumped up and sweating. almost better than sex. I see no reason to slow down, but I have made concessions. i dont deadlift, or do bent over rows anymore, as I feel im big enough. so I do a fast paced workout hitting all the different back machines. arms are pretty much pain free, shoulders hurt here and there, but nothing serious. could still military press the 110s if someone handed them to me.

so for me lifting has been a blessing. and Im going to lift till I croak. cant think of ever stopping. im on 75mgs of testosterone a week from my doctor. just a little taste, no more than this is perfect for me.

I see guys my age just going threw the motions at the gym and I think why?? you can still be intense at any age. I dont get there logic.

I take a statin for chol. I take blood pressue medicine, and metformin for pre diabetes. and a drug for A-FIB. and vitraga for a good boner when I need it.  im 5-10 and 268, which bothers me, but I never seem to lose weight. if I fast, I will get down to 260, but in a week im back up to 270. very weird how I cant lose weight. i do not want to Be 270, but I keep trying to lose weight.    judo

You sound incredibly strong. I think at your age you have to concentrate on training for health and not ego. Sometimes that's impossible to separate and I struggle with that too. No where near as strong as you.  I bet your cholesterol, blood pressure, sugar levels and boners would improve if you lost weight. 260 at 5'10" is just way too much weight for a young guy let alone a senior. I hope that test you're taking isn't making your blood viscosity thicker. I read doctors are speculating that happens to some  test users. A research study on test replacement users found they had  higher incidents of stroke and heart attacks. Of course it's easy to find the opposite research sponsored by the testosterone manufacturer's saying the opposite.

As hard core trainers get into the 60's it might be a better approach to continue to train hard with the weights but train for muscular endurance instead. Meaning higher reps and shorter rests between sets. Instead of putting 50lbs on a dipping belt and grinding out 8 reps do 6 quick sets of body weight with a perfect range of motion and cadence. Make the lifting session an athletic somewhat cardio session instead of being concerned with what's your single rep max is going to be.  After all if you're lean and muscular no one can guess what's your single max.  Sometimes as you age you just have to think I'd rather train knowing most can't keep up with my workout instead of thinking I got a better single rep than most. I don't know if I am conveying my thoughts clearly.

 I will use this example about a pro Chris Dickerson.  In his early days he trained heavy and even did Olympic lifts that were needed for athletic points back in the AAU Mr. America contest. At his absolute best conditions after a long competitive career a guy in my gym said he watched him train and the weights he used wasn't impressive he said. He talked about seated lat pulley pulls with 160lbs. Delt laterals with light dumbbells. Press behind the neck with 115lbs.  Next time I saw him he had a different opinion. He trained with him. He said he was a machine. He did about 6 sets per exercise with very minimal rest between sets. The first couple of sets were easy but soon it felt like he was running for 10 miles through the workout and he couldn't keep up. I heard the same experience from a guy that trained with Steve Davis. He said it was a world wind of constant movement. The light weight suddenly got very heavy.  I would imagine training this way is a fantastic way to get into shape. Conditioning is important and you don't get that from low reps and heavy weights. I'm tempted to train that way but like many the ego gets in the way.

In the end no one gets out alive. We all age and have problems. It would be an incredible thing to live to be 80 and have all of those years in great health and vigor. How many live to be 80 but are physical messes their last 30 years? Many out of shape people don't even realize what they are missing.

[IroNat]

Chris Dickerson has had knee and hip replacements.

[Pet shop boys]

Is bodybuilding an attribute to health or a negative?  There are no legitimate studies on long time androgen use because of the hidden illegal use of the drugs.  Empirical knowledge will lead someone who isn't rationalization their use that it increases the likelihood of heart disease and strokes besides messing up the hormones in a person.  Outside of this it's the joint issues. I've been lifting for well over 40 years. Been  around the game a long time.  All the 400lbs bench press guys that I know are a mess of orthopedic problems. The deadlift raw champion in my gym doesn't deadlift anymore because his back hurts. Arnold, Draper, Zane and a host of others have had wrecked shoulders.  Big Lou I believe has had his knee and hip replaced. Clarence Bass and John Grimek had their hip operations. I don't have to mention Yates and Coleman.

Sometimes I think it's the heavy trainers who have these problems but many are not. Chris Dickerson during his best years used moderate weights with many sets using short rests between sets. He can barely walk now. Granted he is old and he used to Olympic lift for athletic points during his AAU Mr. America days. Then you have guys like Danny Padilla who seems in great orthopedic shape.

Thought my body was bullet proof until I reached 55. Then my perfect shoulders started giving me a ton of trouble. Now in my 60's my left elbow, knee and I just hurt my Achilles but that's my fault.  I was a sprinter in college and decided to do 40 yard repeats. Thought I was flying until the 4th one. Then bam. Reality said you are an old man.  Limped to my car.

Will problems affect all? Of course not. Just like some life long smokers will live to be 80 something. It's still a risk to health.  Thinking about ways for an older trainer to work out while minimizing the damage. Should it be volume over low set intensity to failure?  

Yates said something to the effect that if you want to be your best you have to red line your training. When you do you increase the odds of the race car blowing up. His words were different but the sentiments I wrote are the same.

Old age is something no one can beat. Just would like to arrive in the best possible way.  I have some inspirations. One 73 year old guy in my gym lifts heavy and sprints like a young man.  He has a clear young man's voice and said he has some minor ortho issues but for the most part his body works. Another is a guy I know. He retired down to Florida and his wife died. He use to jog a couple miles every once in awhile in his adult life. He was lonely knowing no one in Florida so he joined a running club.  He was so dedicated to running soon he was doing around 20 miles at a pop.  He became the World champion for his 70's age group in the marathon. The guy then could do close to 7 minutes miles for 26 miles.  Now he's over 75 and I believe in a new age bracket. He is slowing down but I bet he can still be World champ again in his age bracket.

If this post stinks I will start putting up pictures of hot chicks.  Real young ones. No one over 60.  

WooSHHHHHHHHHHHH  LE VRO NEEEEEEEEEEE

[IroNat]

 

[oldtimer1]

Chris Dickerson has had knee and hip replacements.

Yes, he is an orthopedic mess.  Last time I saw film of him it was sad. He could barely walk. He might have competed for almost 30 years. That's insane. Like I mentioned previously he did train heavy at one point. Even Olympic lifting.

[Hypertrophy]

All physical endeavors carries risk. A sub 2:15 is a world class elite runner. That would come in the top 10-15 in Boston and NY Marathon. Sorry he was put out of commission with an injury. To achieve that elite level he pushed the gas pedal all the way down in training probably putting in over 100 mile weeks during some cycles in training. Yes, extreme running will has the potential for damage. I think it's a pretty safe bet that the majority are doing their body good going for  2 to 6 mile runs.

Regarding hip replacements we know many known bodybuilders who had to go that route. Then again how many people do you know that are couch potatoes that have had knee and hip replacement. I know a few. Maybe it's the extreme of non use and over use.

 Gymnast in college work for many hours and that's extreme. Not unusual for a college gymnast to be in the gym for 3 to 4 hours. On a side note have you seen some of these physiques on elite gymnasts?

You're right about natural bodybuilding. Lifting and doing cardio might be one of the greatest things you could do for your health.

Yes- my brother in law won the Charlotte Marathon and finished top 20 in Boston. Ran for Georgetown in college- 13 min and change 5K. Definitely elite.

We are in total agreement- moderation is the key. I used to do 100 mile cycling races frequently but got tired of the grind- and the sun exposure, believe it or not. Most Ironman level triathletes I know have skin that looks 10-20 years older than their chronological age.

I follow a simple 5x5 Reg Park type lifting routine these days and feel as good as I ever have. Just some basic movements and concentration on good form and no extreme angles. I also still bicycle , 3-4 times a week for an hour or two. Purely aerobic level via heart rate. The lifting plus the cycling keeps me fit and feeling good!

[ratherbebig]

1-30 years = light training
30-80 years = moderate training
80+ years = hard training, lots of drugs etc

use this formula and you dont have to worry

[Bevo]

I get what your saying but lets be honest take away the crazy heavy lifting drugs training is a great way to improve over all circulation heart strength muscle growth.. And at the end of the day I know guys who have never smoked.only drank on weekends great shape and then have a heart attack at 35 40 years old its genetic. so would you rather live like a fat slob who cant get it up or at least have a good build into your 50s and 60s ..

Please name names, I would like to know what the percentage of these people fall into this category for further reference

[Bevo]

Chris Dickerson has had knee and hip replacements.

Ronnie Coleman has had his whole body replaced, he might even have 3d printed parts

[oldtimer1]

Yes- my brother in law won the Charlotte Marathon and finished top 20 in Boston. Ran for Georgetown in college- 13 min and change 5K. Definitely elite.

We are in total agreement- moderation is the key. I used to do 100 mile cycling races frequently but got tired of the grind- and the sun exposure, believe it or not. Most Ironman level triathletes I know have skin that looks 10-20 years older than their chronological age.

I follow a simple 5x5 Reg Park type lifting routine these days and feel as good as I ever have. Just some basic movements and concentration on good form and no extreme angles. I also still bicycle , 3-4 times a week for an hour or two. Purely aerobic level via heart rate. The lifting plus the cycling keeps me fit and feeling good!

I rode a bike one time 500 miles in five days in 90 degree heat in Iowa. I had trouble sitting down for the plane ride home. It wasn't a race. Just a tour but this inexperience bike rider was hurting. Did you know Kalman the guy that beat Mentzer in the Universe competes in age group bike races now? I don't know if you know Joe Means. In the 1976 Mr. AAU America he won best legs and the most muscular. He's an avid bike rider now. 

I was a sprinter in high school and college. I let running get away from me through the years and I regret it. Even though I was a sprinter in my younger years stringing sub 6 minutes miles were never a  problem.  Now I can't imagine running that fast.  Then again I was much lighter and much younger.    I'm injured now with an Achilles injury but I hope to be clicking on all cylinders soon. I want to get back into running. It's embarrassing getting pasted by so many people on the running trails. I know I can do better but I got the Iron bug disease.

Combining a serious cardio  with hard lifting is definitely a hard juggle. As you know most lifters do a joke of a cardio program. The inverse is also true. Guys riding a bike or putting in serious miles running often have a non challenging lifting routines. Hard to find the balance.  If you have any ideas I would like to hear it. Send a personal message or write here. I try to alternate a lifting a day and running a day when everything is going well.

[Coach is Back!]

Cardio and diet is incredibly important to heart health. Heart attacks are the number one killer of man. Sure some runners will die from a heart attack but it has prevented more heart attacks than it has caused.  The first thing a cardiologist does for a patient recovering from a heart attack during rehab is cardio.

1. The heart is a muscle and it needs to be trained.
2. Cardio lowers the resting heart rate showing the muscle is stronger and more efficient.
3. Cardio lowers subcutaneous and visceral fat that leads to metabolic disorders.
4. Cardio lowers blood fats in the form of triglycerides.
5. Cardio lowers blood sugar.
6. Cardio increases capillaries around the heart which can mean the difference between life and death during a heart attack.
7. Cardio in the form of running increases bone density and balance.
8. For some cardio lowers blood pressure.
9. Cardio increases High density lipids and moves the HDL to LDL ratios  to favorable  .
10. Cardio improves mood. 
11. Most real athletic endeavors requires cardio shape like boxing, wrestling, soccer, basketball and so many others. 

Far too many people who hate cardio are out of shape and can't stand the work it takes because it's too hard for them.  Saw three guys from the posh gym in town enter a charity 5K  representing the gym wearing their shirt. I guess the gym wanted their muscular trainers in the race for free publicity.  The three guys barely finished sucking wind as chubby soccer moms jogged past them.  Just embarrassing. If bodybuilders had to show their heart muscle they would train it hard. Having a big engine in a fight is useless if you have a small gas tank.

Agree on all counts. When I was prepping I started out (18 weeks) with an hour a day 5-6 days per week and I absolutely hate "cardio" but as the weeks and months went by it became a habit that I actually started to enjoy. 6 weeks post contest even though I'm not doing cardio every day, I'm still doing 60-90mins walks every other day here on the boardwalk or bike and treadmill at the gym. I actually feel guilty if I do less than 3-4 days, it's become a necessity

[oldtimer1]

Agree on all counts. When I was prepping I started out (18 weeks) with an hour a day 5-6 days per week and I absolutely hate "cardio" but as the weeks and months went by it became a habit that I actually started to enjoy. 6 weeks post contest even though I'm not doing cardio every day, I'm still doing 60-90mins walks every other day here on the boardwalk or bike and treadmill at the gym. I actually feel guilty if I do less than 3-4 days, it's become a necessity

Fast walking for an hour or an hour plus like you're doing is one of the best exercises you can do to lower the risk of many health problems and it's a great mood elevator. It really clears the head. Now this sounds crazy and I have nothing to back me up but me and the wife play Jeopardy watching the show on tv. When I was doing long fast walks like you are doing I actually played the game better. My wife is hard to beat but I showed her up a couple of times and it was after walking for an hour and twenty minutes on a isolated trail by my house. Just made my brain click better.

[IRON CROSS]

Fast walking for an hour or an hour plus like you're doing is one of the best exercises you can do to lower the risk of many health problems and it's a great mood elevator. It really clears the head. Now this sounds crazy and I have nothing to back me up but me and the wife play Jeopardy watching the show on tv. When I was doing long fast walks like you are doing I actually played the game better. My wife is hard to beat but I showed her up a couple of times and it was after walking for an hour and twenty minutes on a isolated trail by my house. Just made my brain click better.

Dump her, get young 1!.