2019 Olympia - Rumors - Don't believe them!

[stuntmovie]

MPH, It's evident that you have a valid understanding of this IFBB Pro League / IFBB Elite situation and its affect on the professional contenders.

I'm somewhat confused regarding the following:

Will either organization allow competitors from the other organization to enter that organization's events?

And the NPC/IFBB Pro League has the Olympia and the Arnold and the Rock (pretty soon) for IFBB Pro League contenders which they must qualify for prior to entry.

Can a pro contender within the IFBB Elite somehow manage to compete within the IFBB Pro Olympia or must he qualify like any other IFBB Pro League contender?

Or possibly even start all over from the bottom as an NPC contender? Which is a possibility now that the NPC is going international.

What contest that are similar to the Oly or the Arnold or the forthcoming ROK does  the IFBB Elite sanction for its pro athletes/bodybuilders?

And which sanctioning body is larger membership wise!?

I think I know the answer to some of the above, but a second opinion (or even a 3rd) would be appreciated!

[JAGO]

Are the blue sold and the white open? Or vise-versa?

J

[IronMagazine.com]

I have it on good authority that there have been high level IFBB meetings and teleconferences about canceling this year’s Olympia. This information comes straight from the wife/GF of one of the top IFBB/AMI guys. The reasons given is that ticket sales are absolutely horrid and they are expecting to lose more than $1M+ unless something changes.

With Kai confirmed to be out, this is shaping up to be something less than the Arnold Classic, except the Arnold sells out. Ticket sales are so bad that one of the show promoters is rumored to be getting fired/demoted as well. Manion not happy.

Wrong.

[mphgrove]

MPH, It's evident that you have a valid understanding of this IFBB Pro League / IFBB Elite situation and its affect on the professional contenders.

I'm somewhat confused regarding the following:

Will either organization allow competitors from the other organization to enter that organization's events?

And the NPC/IFBB Pro League has the Olympia and the Arnold and the Rock (pretty soon) for IFBB Pro League contenders which they must qualify for prior to entry.

Can a pro contender within the IFBB Elite somehow manage to compete within the IFBB Pro Olympia or must he qualify like any other IFBB Pro League contender?

Or possibly even start all over from the bottom as an NPC contender? Which is a possibility now that the NPC is going international.

What contest that are similar to the Oly or the Arnold or the forthcoming ROK does  the IFBB Elite sanction for its pro athletes/bodybuilders?

And which sanctioning body is larger membership wise!?

I think I know the answer to some of the above, but a second opinion (or even a 3rd) would be appreciated!

I am no expert at all so anything I say could be wrong (and welcome being corrected) but here is what I think:

1. No, each organization frowns on a competitor entering the other organization’s events, but may be happy to capture competitors from the other side. Therefore, “frowns on” is a better term than “prohibits”. For example, if the IFBB Pro League schedules a show in Spain or the UK (Pro Qualifier), they are obviously going after competitors from other organizations that they want to attract into their show. And I doubt that either IFBB has an effective policing mechanism to check up on which competitors compete in which shows (although they probably do for the very top guys).

2. I believe he must qualify like any other competitor. I think that is why there are now all these IFBB Pro League Qualifiers popping up around the globe. But I am a little bit confused as to the ratio of overseas amateurs versus overseas pros (other organizations) who go into these qualifiers. Possibly overseas Elite pros could get invitations to compete Pro League in the US if they wanted such an invitation. But, as stated above, their home organizations would frown on this big time. The reverse does definitely not seem to be true. Pro League members were not allowed recently to compete at Arnold Europe.

3. I don’t think NPC is really going international from a rinky dinky local amateur show standpoint. That would really surprise me. However, the IFBB Pro League promoters are now doing some “regional shows” in select overseas nations which are a step below Pro Qualifier level. But those shows probably don’t go very deep into the local scene.

4. Their are lots of overseas Elite Pro shows but I am not familiar with them, other than Arnold’s shows, FIBO, etc., the big ones that show up in magazines or online. We don’t really hear about them in US. But if you live in those other countries, I am sure you know them well. One way to see some of these shows listed is go to www.ifbb.com. Elite Pro (not Pro League) holds that web address.

5. In terms of volume of pro card holders in the respective two IFBBs, I don’t know but I would guess Elite Pro because the rest of the world is so much bigger than just US, Canada. Australia. We used to know these pros (Dorian, Marcus, Berry DeMey, Ronnie Rockel). Now we don’t know them any more because of the split. But often US organizations tend to be better run and operate at higher energy level for multinational penetration than non US organizations, so that factor may give Pro League an edge. And our diversity helps us (Asian Americans to Asia, Portuguese speaker to Brazil, etc.). Plus I have heard several people say Pro League is “giving out pro cards like candy” so that could influence statistics.

[illuminati]

Remember when ESPN had bodybuilding contests on and even a show on how the pro's train?  Then it seemed after one meeting it was all gone. The bodybuilding time slot was replaced with billiards competitions. Insecure guys that flocked to bodybuilding now flock to MMA fights. Instead of going to bodybuilding gyms they go to jui jitsu dojo's.  Bodybuilding's deep secret of using drugs to get muscles way beyond an athlete's muscles is just  common knowledge now. Regular people don't give a damn about a sport based on drug use. No drugs equal no sport. I know every drug using bodybuilder likes to think athletics wouldn't exist without drugs but deep down they know the truth. Only one sport wouldn't exist without drugs and that's bodybuilding.  

Steve Reeves
All Drugs then was He ?

Ok then that’s sorted that.

[trapz101]

probably losing only $1m+ and considering cancelling the show?hahahahaha

[Marvin Martian]

probably losing only $1m+ and considering cancelling the show?hahahahaha

 

[falco]

Why can’t let it go can you? It’s fucking over!

 

[bigkid]

They need to do something to up the excitement about this years O.  Maybe see if Ronnie will jump a ramp in his wheelchair through a ring of fire or something.

[falco]

They need to do something to up the excitement about this years O.  Maybe see if Ronnie will jump a ramp in his wheelchair through a ring of fire or something.

I thought he can walk already. Or at least stand unassisted.

[bigkid]

I thought he can walk already. Or at least stand unassisted.

The guy is one heavy leg press session away from the chair.  Could be going on right now.

[SGT BARNES]

They need to do something to up the excitement about this years O.  Maybe see if Ronnie will jump a ramp in his wheelchair through a ring of fire or something.

This is fucking funny

[Mothballs]

Are the blue sold and the white open? Or vise-versa?

J

Blue is unsold.

[illuminati]

Regarding the Olympia, it will not be cancelled. I talk to Dan Solomon regularly and things are fine. It is ridiculous to think the Rock's show will take over. He cannot buy the history of the sport!

Regarding the amount of Pro cards, on the average the Pro League hand over approximately 1200 per year. Makes you wonder where are all the pros other than changing their status to a pro on their social media. But in reality you are not a pro unless you compete on the pro stage. The Elite Pro also hand out a large number, not as much as pro league, but they are still building their league. A number of IFBB amateurs prefer to stay on as amateur until they win a major show such as the arnold classic europe, IFBB European championships or IFBB World amateur championships.

I believe it is useless to become a pro when you are not at the highest level...

If your a pro in the Pro League or the IFBB Elite Pro you cannot switch to either federation. You will lose your pro status.

Unless a Pro gets the nod from either President (Manion or Rafael) they have to earn their pro status.

The IFBB (Rafael) have the majority in Europe and other parts of the world. The Pro League is dominant in the USA and Australia.

What people fail to realize is that the Pro League and Robin Chang cannot just undue all the hard work Ben Weider did in his life. He built the IFBB and the agreements to over 190 countries, through government and other entities. He then handed over the reigns to present IFBB President Rafael Santonja.

Another important factor is that IFBB (Rafael) is associated with WADA (World Anti Doping Agency) this means governments will recognize the IFBB as a official federation.
Testing is done at amateur shows and every athlete has to sign that they will accept a test.

We must not forget the IFBB still have the prestigious IFBB European Championships and IFBB Amateur World Championships (Formerly IFBB Universe).

Regarding Elite Pro shows, it has been very successful with more shows growing and getting bigger. More athletes are competing and the prize money is getting higher. Considering it is only in its second year. The pro athletes still have to promote themselves better... but this will improve as well.

Regarding the Arnold Classic, the Elite Pro events are the Arnold Europe and Arnold Africa. The rest are Pro League events (USA, Brazil, Australia)

Contrary to what many believe, The Arnold Europe under the Elite Pro was a great show in 2018 and it is expected to be better this month (a week after the Olympia). I will be there covering it.

As the Pro League have the Olympia, The Elite Pro have the IFBB Elite Pro Championships. Athletes qualify by points or by winning major shows.

I respect bother federation and cover both their major shows. The athletes always come first.

We must not forget the IFBB have been pumping athletes to the Olympia and pro league for just over 50 years, that has all ended now since the split. So the NPC are trying their best to establish them selves in Europe... a hard task ahead of them. As amateurs prefer top compete in competitions in Europe (Elite Pro) rather than travelling to the USA for pro league shows. It is just not viable.

Any other questions I am happy to answer.

Regarding the IFBB I am well informed since I am part of IFBB's Media Team as well.

https://www.evolutionofbodybuilding.net

Thanks for your explanation.
Simply stated it’s a complete fuck up having 2 IFBB organisation
And 2 lots of IFBB pro events - A Farcical & conflicting situation.

[Mothballs]

According to a close relative, Manion is actually very pleased with the poor ticket sales and Solomon falling on his face as Olympia promoter. After talking Kai out of competing, he is setting his sights on building his NPC Pro League and taking the bulk of IFBB competitors with him. Huge split coming soon.

[mphgrove]

According to a close relative, Manion is actually very pleased with the poor ticket sales and Solomon falling on his face as Olympia promoter. After talking Kai out of competing, he is setting his sights on building his NPC Pro League and taking the bulk of IFBB competitors with him. Huge split coming soon.

The IFBB split is a huge factor as to why the Olympia is now less interesting (because of reduction in competitor depth and diversity). That factor would still exist if the Olympia faded in the future and was eclipsed by some hypothetical substitute (e.g., Dwayne Johnson Extravaganza) as long as professional bodybuilding remains split up as it is.

There has been focus on the organizational issues and maybe some focus on the athletes. I am talking about open bodybuilding SPECTATOR perspective here. This also pertains to online and magazines. Doesn’t seem like we get the big picture any more. For example, the guys used to fly over to Europe to do the European circuit and come back with stories, and then see those shows pop up in the magazines. In turn, the European guys all flew in for the NY Pro making that a truly exciting show. Lots of examples like this. Now the only foreign country you hear about is Kuwait.

 

[Hypertrophy]

Regarding the Olympia, it will not be cancelled. I talk to Dan Solomon regularly and things are fine. It is ridiculous to think the Rock's show will take over. He cannot buy the history of the sport!

Regarding the amount of Pro cards, on the average the Pro League hand over approximately 1200 per year. Makes you wonder where are all the pros other than changing their status to a pro on their social media. But in reality you are not a pro unless you compete on the pro stage. The Elite Pro also hand out a large number, not as much as pro league, but they are still building their league. A number of IFBB amateurs prefer to stay on as amateur until they win a major show such as the arnold classic europe, IFBB European championships or IFBB World amateur championships.

I believe it is useless to become a pro when you are not at the highest level...

If your a pro in the Pro League or the IFBB Elite Pro you cannot switch to either federation. You will lose your pro status.

Unless a Pro gets the nod from either President (Manion or Rafael) they have to earn their pro status.

The IFBB (Rafael) have the majority in Europe and other parts of the world. The Pro League is dominant in the USA and Australia.

What people fail to realize is that the Pro League and Robin Chang cannot just undue all the hard work Ben Weider did in his life. He built the IFBB and the agreements to over 190 countries, through government and other entities. He then handed over the reigns to present IFBB President Rafael Santonja.

Another important factor is that IFBB (Rafael) is associated with WADA (World Anti Doping Agency) this means governments will recognize the IFBB as a official federation.
Testing is done at amateur shows and every athlete has to sign that they will accept a test.

We must not forget the IFBB still have the prestigious IFBB European Championships and IFBB Amateur World Championships (Formerly IFBB Universe).

Regarding Elite Pro shows, it has been very successful with more shows growing and getting bigger. More athletes are competing and the prize money is getting higher. Considering it is only in its second year. The pro athletes still have to promote themselves better... but this will improve as well.

Regarding the Arnold Classic, the Elite Pro events are the Arnold Europe and Arnold Africa. The rest are Pro League events (USA, Brazil, Australia)

Contrary to what many believe, The Arnold Europe under the Elite Pro was a great show in 2018 and it is expected to be better this month (a week after the Olympia). I will be there covering it.

As the Pro League have the Olympia, The Elite Pro have the IFBB Elite Pro Championships. Athletes qualify by points or by winning major shows.

I respect bother federation and cover both their major shows. The athletes always come first.

We must not forget the IFBB have been pumping athletes to the Olympia and pro league for just over 50 years, that has all ended now since the split. So the NPC are trying their best to establish them selves in Europe... a hard task ahead of them. As amateurs prefer top compete in competitions in Europe (Elite Pro) rather than travelling to the USA for pro league shows. It is just not viable.

Any other questions I am happy to answer.

Regarding the IFBB I am well informed since I am part of IFBB's Media Team as well.

https://www.evolutionofbodybuilding.net

History means nothing if the business or sport is falling out of favor with the public and it is. Bodybuilding is forever marked as an activity only made possible by illegal steroids. The Weiders did a good job BS'ing the public for years into thinking it was all protein powder and  the "Weider Principles", but eventually the genie got out of the bottle.

If the Olympia got cancelled, the 0.0000001% of possible viewers would just go to Instagram instead, lol.

[BB]

What are hotel room sales looking like at The Mirage, particularity by the ice machines? Everyone knows that's where the real magic happens, and it will tell us the true state of the Olympia weekend.

[Humble Narcissist]

History means nothing if the business or sport is falling out of favor with the public and it is. Bodybuilding is forever marked as an activity only made possible by illegal steroids. The Weiders did a good job BS'ing the public for years into thinking it was all protein powder and  the "Weider Principles", but eventually the genie got out of the bottle.

If the Olympia got cancelled, the 0.0000001% of possible viewers would just go to Instagram instead, lol.

Yes, since the Weider brothers died pro bodybuilding is a sinking ship.  These current pros should drop the dosage, get healthy and be instagram and youtube stars or just become personal trainers.  It's just a matter of time before there's no money at all in the competitive side of the sport.

[stuntmovie]

EVOLUTION, Thanks for your intelligence and non-biased response!

I can comprehend most of what you said, but some of your comments raise many more questions.

I hope you don't mind me asking them here!

#1. Since there are now two IFBB organizations, I believe we all get somewhat confused whenever the term "IFBB" is used without the addition of the identifiers ....  "PRO" or "ELITE".

Now-a-days the designation  "IFBB' without the addition of "Pro" or "Elite' tends to be confusing unless one is actively involved within either organization.

For example you state ... " I am part of IFBB's Media Team ....."

And I can only assume that you are associated with Jim Manion and the IFBB Pro League within that capacity. But without the addition  of "Pro League"  it could get confusing.

#2. Did Joe leave a will which specifically mentioned the 'ownership/control' of the IFBB organization  and the  further 'control and benefits' of the  IFBB Olympia and other IFBB events of that time?

Did that will grant the IFBB or any part of the IFBB to Betty or Eric? (I seldom see Eric mentioned at ant time.)

Did that will make any mention about Rafael and his involvement with or within the IFBB?

What was Rafael's position within the IFBB at the time of Joe's death? (IFBB President??)

What was Manion's position within the IFBB at the time of Joe' death?

Was Rafael ever officially involved within the Olympic event prior to Joe's death? (Was he ever actually present or act in an official capacity at any Olympia con contest?

What was Jim's official capacity in the Olympia prior to Joe's death? (Other than NPC President/Chairman)

How did Jim assume control of his present position regarding the Olympia?

Was Rafael present when Jim took control?

Was there a physical confrontation?

Are legal battles still ongoing between the IFBB Pro League and the IFBB Elite organizations?

How do you personally feel about Arnold's participation within both organizations  .... but the contenders are prevented from doing so?

Thanks, EVO

PS ... You have a great and informative website. Thanks for that also!
evolutionsinbodybuilding .net

[AbrahamG]

I heard that AMI is allowing a rape kit booth at the expo. 

[stuntmovie]

EVO, Thanks for the great response!

I played a minor role (very minor background role), so I'll be sending you a PM which you may find to be of interest.

Or not! ... but I'll send it anyway.

[illuminati]

Let me try to answer these...

#1. Since there are now two IFBB organizations, I believe we all get somewhat confused whenever the term "IFBB" is ised without the addition of the identifiers ....  "PRO" or "ELITE".

Now-a-days the designation  "IFBB' without the addition of "Pro" or "Elite' tends to be confusing unless one is actively involved within either organization.

For example you state ... " I am part of IFBB's Media Team ....."

And I can only assume that you are associated with Jim Manion and the IFBB Pro League within that capacity. But without the addition  of "Pro League"  it could get confusing.

IFBB is owned by the IFBB ( Rafael Santonja), The IFBB Professional League was used before the split as the only pro league affiliated with the IFBB... but after the split, Manion kept the name IFBB in Professional League... for now.

#2. Did Joe leave a will which specifically mentioned the 'ownership/control' of the IFBB organization  and the  further 'control and benefits' of the  IFBB Olympia and other IFBB events of that time?

Not Joe, Ben Weider was the top man for the IFBB... Joe was more Pro League and other things. Ben Weider suggested Rafael for President.
https://www.evolutionofbodybuilding.net/the-truth/

Did that will grant the IFBB or any part of the IFBB to Betty or Eric? (I seldom see Eric mentioned at ant time.)
Eric owns the IFBB Professional League name... Manion is just the president of the association. Eric does not own the name IFBB... that belongs to the federation Rafael is president of.

Did that will make any mention about Rafael and his involvement with or within the IFBB?
The will has nothing to do with it, Rafael was voted president of the IFBB when Ben Weider stepped down. Ben recommended him. As mentioned in previous link

What was Rafael's position within the IFBB at the time of Joe's death? (IFBB President??)
IFBB President

What was Manion's position within the IFBB at the time of Joe' death?
IFBB Professional League President / NPC President. He owns the NPC, that is a private business... in reality not a federation such as the IFBB. The difference is with the IFBB a congress is done to pass new rules with votes, and voting for new executives and eventually a new president (Rafael keeps getting revoted with no competition)... regarding the NPC, Jim calls the shots, just as he made his grandson vice-president.


Was Rafael ever officially involved within the Olympic event prior to Joe's death? (Was he ever actually present or act in an official capacity at any Olympia con contest?
Rafael represented the IFBB, he used to be on stage representing the IFBB when the winner was awarded.

What was Jim's official capacity in the Olympia prior to Joe's death? (Other than NPC President/Chairman)
I think vice-President of the Pro league

How did Jim assume control of his present position regarding the Olympia?
Jim does not control the Olympia, AMI does. AMI just use the Pro League... in reality, if AMI wants he can switch to the IFBB Elite Pro for their pro athletes... Just using this as a example.

Was Rafael present when Jim took control?
Of course. Rafael never had anything to do with Pro League, his focus was on amateur bodybuilding and getting Olympic recognition (Ben's dream)

Was there a physical confrontation?
No, just a meeting and it was done in September 2017, there are different stories on how it happened... all on my website to read

Are legal battles still ongoing between the IFBB Pro League and the IFBB Elite organizations?
Yes, I am the only one reporting them... but it is slowly settling.

How do you personally feel about Arnold's participation within both organizations  .... but the contenders are prevented from doing so?
Arnold goes where he is advised and where the money is. He has very close ties to Rafael and his wife on a personal level. I know this for sure as I was present at private functions. Remember, Rafael is an extension of Ben and Joe Weider, so Arnold respects the tradition and history

You have to admit 2 IFBB’s & 2 Lots of Different Pro’s
Is Daft / confusing & outright Ridiculous.

Though Thanks for Your Explanations.

[evbodybuilding]

You have to admit 2 IFBB’s & 2 Lots of Different Pro’s
Is Daft / confusing & outright Ridiculous.

Though Thanks for Your Explanations.

To be honest, now not everybody will agree.

The IFBB (Santonja) is the original IFBB.

Manion is NPC and he already trademarked NPC Pro League, a month after the split. So it is logical he drops the name. Manion would not register this name for nothing...

The IFBB Professional used the name IFBB as they were part of the IFBB before 2017, but this is something Eric Weider and Rafael Santonja have to settle.

[mphgrove]

Based on a scan of 2019 Pro League men’s bodybuilding Pro competitions, here are the non USA/Canada/Australia nations where the Pro League is pulling a few competitors from:
UK
Netherlands
France
Portugal
Italy
Czech Republic
Russia
Egypt
Iran
Columbia
Mexico
South Africa

That is the extent of it as of 2019. Huge nations like Turkey, India, Argentina, China, Indonesia have no Pro League activity in terms of competing Pro League professionals. The rest of Europe shows little activity and, despite a lot of Qualifier shows in Asia, no pro competitors are coming from Asia yet. But this scan was only for Men’s Bodybuilding. Possibly the focus in some Asian nations may be on Classic, Bikini, Physique and other categories that were not scanned (I don’t think of mass monsters coming from Asia). This was men’s bodybuilding only.