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Author Topic: mexican cartel  (Read 3585 times)
ESFitness
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« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2019, 06:13:00 PM »

If you're white and you travel into Mexico and decide to stray away from the major resort areas, then you might as well paint a bullseye on your back while out riding on your rented moped scooter. You're likely to be kidnapped only to find yourself naked in a bathtub, minus a kidney or another major organ that is to be sold on the black market. Either that or held for a ransom that won't be paid and then tortured to death for fun. Yeah, my kind of place.  Roll Eyes

You obviously have all your Mexico info from TV. Nearly everything you say is wrong.
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Tapeworm
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« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2019, 06:31:17 PM »

You can't kill a hydra. As long as there are billions of dollars to be made in drug sales someone is going to do whatever it takes to make it. Ban booze, you get Al Capone. Add more police, you just get more corruption.

Legalization of drugs would put these fuckers out of business in one week without a shot fired. How many soldiers are they going to afford by shaking down hookers and bean farmers? They'd evaporate.

I understand legalizing drugs isn't an idea everyone supports since there's an argument to be made that you shouldn't have the right to decide things for yourself and these decisions should be made for you by your government in order to protect you from yourself.
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ESFitness
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« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2019, 06:40:14 PM »

You can't kill a hydra. As long as there are billions of dollars to be made in drug sales someone is going to do whatever it takes to make it. Ban booze, you get Al Capone. Add more police, you just get more corruption.

Legalization of drugs would put these fuckers out of business in one week without a shot fired. How many soldiers are they going to afford by shaking down hookers and bean farmers? They'd evaporate.

I understand legalizing drugs isn't an idea everyone supports since there's an argument to be made that you shouldn't have the right to decide things for yourself and these decisions should be made for you by your government in order to protect you from yourself.

Eh, then we'd have to start producing heroin and coke here. The coke is coming from South America and heroin (tar, at least) is actually coming from Mexico.

The "wars" are fought over smuggling routes and which group handles the shipments (Sinaloa vs. CJNG vs. CDG is like DHL vs. FedEx vs. USPS) from Colombia/Peru/Bolivia up through Mexico and into the US. Unless we start producing coke here, there will always be a "war". At the very best, legalization may drop the price and that may trickle down so instead of bringing in 8billion/yr, they bring in 4billion, or even 2... Still plenty cash/biz to fight a war over.
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tres_taco_combo
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« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2019, 06:48:11 PM »

interesting thread and opinions

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Tapeworm
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« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2019, 07:12:58 PM »

Eh, then we'd have to start producing heroin and coke here. The coke is coming from South America and heroin (tar, at least) is actually coming from Mexico.

The "wars" are fought over smuggling routes and which group handles the shipments (Sinaloa vs. CJNG vs. CDG is like DHL vs. FedEx vs. USPS) from Colombia/Peru/Bolivia up through Mexico and into the US. Unless we start producing coke here, there will always be a "war". At the very best, legalization may drop the price and that may trickle down so instead of bringing in 8billion/yr, they bring in 4billion, or even 2... Still plenty cash/biz to fight a war over.

Nonsense. It would be a commodity like anything else. You might as well argue that we have to make tequila domestically so the Mexican tequila cartels don't have wars in the streets while the salsa and copper sink gangs battle it out in the mountains.

Prohibition yields a black market controlled by violent gangsters. It's pure geometry and historically proven.
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Fortress
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« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2019, 09:58:02 PM »

You can't kill a hydra. As long as there are billions of dollars to be made in drug sales someone is going to do whatever it takes to make it. Ban booze, you get Al Capone. Add more police, you just get more corruption.

Legalization of drugs would put these fuckers out of business in one week without a shot fired. How many soldiers are they going to afford by shaking down hookers and bean farmers? They'd evaporate.

I understand legalizing drugs isn't an idea everyone supports since there's an argument to be made that you shouldn't have the right to decide things for yourself and these decisions should be made for you by your government in order to protect you from yourself.

Legalize all you want, as far as I’m concerned ... as long as our nations stop being welfare states. Otherwise, no dice: I’m not in favour of my money being used to deal with the “fallout” from others’ poor decisions/choices.

Oh, and give the legal system teeth.

None of this revolving-door feelgood cuckery.


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pellius
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« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2019, 10:47:38 PM »

Nonsense. It would be a commodity like anything else. You might as well argue that we have to make tequila domestically so the Mexican tequila cartels don't have wars in the streets while the salsa and copper sink gangs battle it out in the mountains.

Prohibition yields a black market controlled by violent gangsters. It's pure geometry and historically proven.

Finally, someone that knows economics and how the free market works.

In a legal business, you have competition through price, quality, and service. If you break the trade laws and business regulations we go to court. If it's an illegal business someone gets killed. Products get cheaper, better and safer.

FFS, we already went through this with Prohibition. We keep dumping money, resources, and lives and it's done nothing. 
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ESFitness
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« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2019, 11:17:18 PM »

Finally, someone that knows economics and how the free market works.

In a legal business, you have competition through price, quality, and service. If you break the trade laws and business regulations we go to court. If it's an illegal business someone gets killed. Products get cheaper, better and safer.

FFS, we already went through this with Prohibition. We keep dumping money, resources, and lives and it's done nothing. 

Except we produce alcohol here. Legalization of heroin and coke will change very little until we produce it here.

we already grew weed here, and have very little use for shitty old, dry, dirty mexican weed.

legalizing meth would thin the herd and crime rates would sky rocket. 

coke and heroin are still gknna have to xome from somewhere else, and as long as pharma companies sell pain killers making opiate painkillers more easily available is a more likely scenario, along with Adderall. The sudden lack of pain pill availability is what drives most people to use heroin.

Only way that works is if tax $$ from rec drug sales goes towards rehab for those who want it, and making it easier to obtain certian drugs to come off "worse" drugs, such as benzos (for alcohol withdrawal, and withdrawal in general... Else you'll have opiate addicts going to alcohol to come off opiates), Suboxone/Subutex/sublocade/methadone/etc, along with things like ibogaine/iboga as well as other hallucinogenics.

There's too much money to be made by keeping the stuff illegal and it's not off-put nearly enough by people calling for legalization and taxation.
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pellius
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« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2019, 11:33:56 PM »

Except we produce alcohol here. Legalization of heroin and coke will change very little until we produce it here.

we already grew weed here, and have very little use for shitty old, dry, dirty mexican weed.

legalizing meth would thin the herd and crime rates would sky rocket. 

coke and heroin are still gknna have to xome from somewhere else, and as long as pharma companies sell pain killers making opiate painkillers more easily available is a more likely scenario, along with Adderall. The sudden lack of pain pill availability is what drives most people to use heroin.

Only way that works is if tax $$ from rec drug sales goes towards rehab for those who want it, and making it easier to obtain certian drugs to come off "worse" drugs, such as benzos (for alcohol withdrawal, and withdrawal in general... Else you'll have opiate addicts going to alcohol to come off opiates), Suboxone/Subutex/sublocade/methadone/etc, along with things like ibogaine/iboga as well as other hallucinogenics.

There's too much money to be made by keeping the stuff illegal and it's not off-put nearly enough by people calling for legalization and taxation.

If it's legal and money is to be made it will be produced in the US. But it doesn't matter. Legalization will change everything. There will be no smuggling routes but more business for trucking, shipping and air freight companies. More and more consumer goods are not produced in the US and we still get them and we get them cheaper -- and no one is getting murdered for it.

The consequences for people who do things irresponsibly to themselves is a separate issue entirely. The biggest killer in our society is heart disease and it's mostly because of irresponsible abuse of food. Should the government control what people eat and the lifestyle choices they make? We'd certainly be a much healthier society and medical cost will go down. But the question is not always what is best or healthiest for you but rather who should decide.
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Fortress
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« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2019, 11:36:32 PM »

Fucking shitty humans.

Addicts, murderers, freaks, and fuckups at every turn.

Weakness and a lack of discipline. Void of character. Inability to consider decency a value in and of itself.

Fuck the world.

Hail and kill.
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WoogsRaven
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« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2019, 08:07:09 AM »

You obviously have all your Mexico info from TV. Nearly everything you say is wrong.

You can say I'm wrong all you want but as far as my safety and well being goes, my gringo ass will never set foot in that shit hole of a country. Enjoy your visits there all you want. Enjoy and go see all the country side and meet with all the friendly low class citizens it has to offer.
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Humble Narcissist
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« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2019, 10:46:41 AM »

Fucking shitty humans.

Addicts, murderers, freaks, and fuckups at every turn.

Weakness and a lack of discipline. Void of character. Inability to consider decency a value in and of itself.

Fuck the world.

Hail and kill.
It is very depressing looking to the future with the way things are going.
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IRON CROSS
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« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2019, 11:20:52 AM »

Looks like there is no more 'juicing' trips to Tijuana for South Cali bodybuilders !.
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oldgolds
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« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2019, 08:25:30 AM »

Legalization would create 10 times more addicts with all of the resulting social ills like crime, broken families, welfare, rehabilitaion centers, medical costs etc......All of which WE will have to pay for....
The only course left is what we are doing now, even though it's not very effective.
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Humble Narcissist
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« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2019, 09:58:02 AM »

Legalization would create 10 times more addicts with all of the resulting social ills like crime, broken families, welfare, rehabilitaion centers, medical costs etc......All of which WE will have to pay for....
The only course left is what we are doing now, even though it's not very effective.

Maybe not.  Holland legalized all drugs and crime didn't go up at all.  The people who are going to use will use regardless of the consequences but I totally agree that the tax payer shouldn't have to pay for rehab and medical.  If people want to use legally then they should be responsible for the aftermath.
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« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2019, 12:14:58 PM »

Maybe not.  Holland legalized all drugs and crime didn't go up at all.  The people who are going to use will use regardless of the consequences but I totally agree that the tax payer shouldn't have to pay for rehab and medical.  If people want to use legally then they should be responsible for the aftermath.

I don't disagree with you. People should take responsibility and suffer the consequences of their actions. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.
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Gregzs
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« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2019, 04:59:37 PM »

Shocking moment Mexican police officer who arrested drug lord El Chapo's son is shot 150 TIMES in brutal broad daylight revenge execution

The Mexican police officer involved in the arrest of the son of reputed drug lord Joaquin 'El Chapo' Guzman has been assassinated in a parking lot.

Closed circuit television cameras captured the horrifying moment on Wednesday morning when at least two armed men with semiautomatic rifles climbed out of a red car and opened fire at a white Nissan four-door sedan.

The ambush took less than 30 seconds as the gunmen fired at least 150 bullets into the white vehicle.

The red car had followed the white car into the parking lot of a shopping center in Culiacán, the capital of Sinaloa state, Infobae.com reported.

The victim was a high-level officer with Sinalo's State Preventive Police.

Local media reports indicate that the officer was involved in the October 17 arrest of Ovidio Guzmán López, the son of Sinaloa cartel boss Joaquín 'El Chapo' Guzmán.

Mexican security forces had Guzman Lopez outside a house on his knees against a wall before they were forced to back off and let him go as his cartel's gunmen shot up the Culiacan.

Defense Secretary Luis Cresencio Sandoval last week showed video and presented a timeline of the failed operation to arrest Guzmán López - an incident that embarrassed the administration of President Andrés Manuel López Obrador.

The video shot by soldiers shows Guzmán exit the house with his hands up.

Soldiers order him to call off the attacks around the city as gunfire is heard in the background.

Guzmán called his brother Archivaldo Iván Guzmán Salazar on his cellphone and told him to stop the chaos.

Archivaldo refused and shouted threats against the soldiers and their families.

The attacks continued and eight minutes later the first wounded soldiers were reported.

Archivaldo Guzmán surely knew at that point that the cartel had the upper hand.

Thirteen people were killed in gun battles around the city.

Officials in Mexico City ultimately ordered security forces to withdraw four hours after the operation began to avoid more bloodshed.

Mexico's Public Safety Secretary Alfonso Durazo said that the aborted operation to arrest Guzmán Lopez was a 'hasty action' that deserves criticism - but the details revealed that the arrest had been in the works for more than a week.

The government's timeline of events showed that the U.S. government requested Guzmán Lopez's arrest for extradition on September 13, and on October 9 a special Mexican army anti-drug unit traveled from Mexico City to Culiacan to prepare.   

Authorities were still in the process of obtaining a search warrant when the operation began on October 17 outside a large home where Guzmán Lopez had been located.

As they moved on the house, gunmen began attacking those involved in the operation.

Sandoval said that once lawmen came under attack, the search warrant was no longer needed.

What seemed clear was that once the operation started, government forces were quickly outmaneuvered by the Sinaloa cartel.

Military planners had four additional teams forming an outer security ring for the operation, but the cartel's gunmen cut off the routes for three of them preventing additional support from arriving.

Meanwhile, the cartel sent convoys of gunmen to several military installations around the city to attack soldiers and their families.

At one military housing block, a sergeant ushered children who were playing outside to safety, but he was taken hostage.

In all, two officers and nine soldiers were taken hostage by the cartel, according to Sandoval.

The bulk of them were providing security for two fuel tanker convoys at a toll plaza on the outskirts of the city.

Sandoval said soldiers estimated that 150 gunmen in 30 vehicles arrived.

Once Guzmán Lopez was released, all the military personnel were let go and the team that had captured Guzmán Lopez left.

It was unclear was who was negotiating with cartel during the confrontation.

Sandoval said that the leader of the team with Guzmán Lopez was offered $3million to let him go, but refused and was then told the cartel would kill him and his family.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7662587/Mexican-police-officer-arrested-El-Chapos-son-assassinated-hail-bullets.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR0DE8ywkESzyVC0T_z9_afM4CesK71GKkWMTlFZ6YI-0UJ93D6bFkQsuQk
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« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2019, 06:50:16 PM »

Legalization would create 10 times more addicts with all of the resulting social ills like crime, broken families, welfare, rehabilitaion centers, medical costs etc......All of which WE will have to pay for....
The only course left is what we are doing now, even though it's not very effective.


Proof? Countries with more permissive drug laws haven't suffered that fate.

Besides, it isn't a question of weighing up ills vs benefits. Let's assume you're right and all that shit would happen. You're ok with kicking in some guy's door and dragging him off to prison for sitting in his living room smoking a joint?

"He's a drain on society!"

Actually the #1 drain is obesity related illness. Diabetes and heart disease.  By a wide, wide margin. So let's go kick in that fat fuckers door. I bet he's eating a doughnut right now.

"Hey, whoa, you can't arrest a guy for sitting on his couch eating doughnuts, ya nazi!  Freedom is our core value here!"

Oh.
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tommywishbone
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« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2019, 08:36:16 PM »

Gentlemen, you can never, and I mean NEVER legalize cocaine and/or heroin.  Absolute madness. 

The problem with Mexico? It's full of worthless filthy Mexicans. 

Viva America!
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a
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« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2019, 03:11:53 AM »

Legalization would create 10 times more addicts with all of the resulting social ills like crime, broken families, welfare, rehabilitaion centers, medical costs etc......All of which WE will have to pay for....
The only course left is what we are doing now, even though it's not very effective.


Perhaps. But just like abolishing Prohibition caused more drinking it greatly, GREATLY, reduced the amount of crime, cost of enforcement, and murders. What we are doing now is costing billions of dollars and created the cartels. We are already experiencing the consequence of drug abuse. With legalization, it will still be there minus the cost and murders.

If more people took the time to research how many innocent lives are lost -- murdered -- due to the drug wars you might have a different perspective.

Keep doing what we are doing? Body bags are stacked outside morgues in Mexico. A family with little children were murdered.

Not very effective but keep doing what we are doing?
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pellius
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« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2019, 03:15:11 AM »

Gentlemen, you can never, and I mean NEVER legalize cocaine and/or heroin.  Absolute madness. 

The problem with Mexico? It's full of worthless filthy Mexicans. 

Viva America!

Why? Opiates are legal. How many deaths do they cause?

Those "filthy Mexicans" don't live in a vacuum. It bleeds over to our side.
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hardgainerj
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« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2019, 06:20:01 AM »

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2019/11/op-ed-lebaron-family-is-more-mexican.html
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Primemuscle
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« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2019, 10:16:03 AM »

Gentlemen, you can never, and I mean NEVER legalize cocaine and/or heroin.  Absolute madness. 

The problem with Mexico? It's full of worthless filthy Mexicans. 

Viva America!

They are not even legal in the Neatherlands.

You may be surprised to learn that recreational drugs are illegal in the Netherlands. Yes, even pot. But an official policy of tolerance emerged and in 1976 the Dutch parliament decriminalized possession of less than 5 grams of cannabis.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/amsterdam-travel-legal-parameters/index.html
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Primemuscle
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« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2019, 10:23:31 AM »

Why? Opiates are legal. How many deaths do they cause?

Those "filthy Mexicans" don't live in a vacuum. It bleeds over to our side.

You're right, opiates are legal, but only when purchased from a pharmacy with a doctor's prescription. Opiates have caused enough deaths and ruined enough lives that the manufactures are facing heavy fines and possible prison.

Purdue Pharma filed for bankruptcy. What does it mean for lawsuits against the opioid manufacturer?
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« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2019, 11:10:52 AM »

Fucking horrible inhuman filth to be able to do that to anyone, should be wiped out
x 2!
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