RIP Kobe Bryant

[pellius]

Which guy? Farthest out I've ever seen dunk is Mike Conley the ex long jumper and James "flight" white, both dunked from around a foot behind the free throw line.

Yeah, I hate to have had to say "that guy". I don't follow basketball but he was mentioned here on one of the threads. He seemed to be a newcomer and everyone seemed to be really anticipating his performance in an upcoming game. I'll see if I can find it. I watched it about five times in a row. I was mesmerizing.

[Army of One]

Yeah, I hate to have had to say "that guy". I don't follow basketball but he was mentioned here on one of the threads. He seemed to be a newcomer and everyone seemed to be really anticipating his performance in an upcoming game. I'll see if I can find it. I watched it about five times in a row. I was mesmerizing.

Ah, ZION Williamson, I believe his vertical has been measured at 45 inches. All the best dunkers now are not in the NBA. 2 highest off the top of my head are 50 and 51 inches. Jordan kilganon is white and 6'1 and the best dunker I've ever seen and recorded a 50.

This guy, Daniel kebaya, while not as stylish looks to go even higher around the 51inch range

[pellius]

Ah, ZION Williamson, I believe his vertical has been measured at 45 inches. All the best dunkers now are not on the NBA. 2 highest off the top of my head are 50 and 51 inches. Jordan kilganon is white and 6'1 and the best dunker I've ever seen and recorded a 50.

This guy, Daniel kebaya, while not as stylish looks to go even higher around the 51inch range

Yeah, Zion Williamson, that's the guy I was referring to.

[rocket]

What if leBron died tomorrow? Would that be as significant as kobe?

Is he dying in a horrific chopper crash with his daughter as his side?

I think people who are wondering why there is a reaction to his seem to forget that that is a brutal way to go out.

I think the football (the real football) world was shocked when the Leicester owner suffered the same fate, only months ago.

[njflex]

Is he dying in a horrific chopper crash with his daughter as his side?

I think people who are wondering why there is a reaction to his seem to forget that that is a brutal way to go out.

I think the football (the real football) world was shocked when the Leicester owner suffered the same fate, only months ago.

same way thurman Munson went 32 yrs old and the yankees heart and soul i remember i was so shocked.diana munson every old timers day is there and  as she gets flowers and a nice applause  thats class.dean martins son same thing crashed his plane dino never recovered.

[Army of One]

Is he dying in a horrific chopper crash with his daughter as his side?

I think people who are wondering why there is a reaction to his seem to forget that that is a brutal way to go out.

I think the football (the real football) world was shocked when the Leicester owner suffered the same fate, only months ago.

looks to me like they would have been flying in the fog then just black, like being switched off.I doubt they knew or felt anything the speed they were going and the complete lack of visibility.Instant death.

[SOMEPARTS]

looks to me like they would have been flying in the fog then just black, like being switched off.I doubt they knew or felt anything the speed they were going and the complete lack of visibility.Instant death.

Uh, well if hitting the top of a hill then falling 2000 feet at 185mph is not feeling anything...well, I doubt I'd want to find out.

[Moontrane]

Uh, well if hitting the top of a hill then falling 2000 feet at 185mph is not feeling anything...well, I doubt I'd want to find out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df6OPxxbSyc

pilot

Flight data has the helo at just over 100 knots, then accelerating to over 150 knots while descending.
It doesn't make sense to me that it accelerated after impact, so I believe the collision occurred at 150
knots.  Any ground collision at over 100 knots will cause instant unconsciousness if not death, and the
impact crater and extensive debris field point to instant "lights out."

You can crash a car into a brick wall at 50 knots (~55 mph), and the air bag and seat belt can prevent death,
but at three time that speed with just a lap belt (which was what the helo had), all bets are off.

[Dave D]

I would say that either or is NEVER enough to be truly great, but greatness is defined differently in different fields, so I guess it's possible for that not to be true in some cases. I don't think it could ever be the case in basketball.

I could be missing your point (and the point of the convo and if so I apologize for that),  but it sounds like you're  saying he had a predisposition to be good at basketball because he was tall and agile. Those aren't qualities that are rare among nba players, so it wasn't like those things preordained him for greatness.

There's a book by Malcolm Gladwell called The Outliers. I'm sure you've heard of it and probably read it or some stuff related to it. Anyway, he makes the argument that the people who achieve greatness are people who have had 10,000 hours to perfect their craft. That's a huge simplification of the book, but he makes what I considered to be a good case- obviously, ymmmv. Kobe excelling so early is like the embodiment of what he argued in the book in some aspects.

Agreed.

Great athletes work hard.

The only non hard working star I can think of would be Michael Vick, his athleticism covered his work habits, partially.

But my point was Kobe wouldn’t have been an NBA player at 5’9.

[che]

But my point was Kobe wouldn’t have been an NBA player at 5’9.

Why  not ?


Kay Felder 5'9''
Isaiah Thomas  5'9''
Keith Jennings. Height: 5'7” ...
Red Klotz. Height: 5'7” ...
Wataru Misaka. Height: 5'7” ...
Monte Towe. Height: 5'7” ...
Spud Webb. Height: 5'7” ...
Mel Hirsch. Height: 5'6”
Earl Boykins. Height: 5'5”
Muggsy Bogues. Height: 5'3

[Dave D]

Why  not ?

I’m wrong he may have been played in the NBA at 5’’9 being born and raised in Thunde Bay, Canada. But he would have not have been a HOF player with a long and storied career.

Making it in the NBA at the size in the last decade were I.Thomas and N.Washington? Anyone else?

[Bevo]

Ah, ZION Williamson, I believe his vertical has been measured at 45 inches. All the best dunkers now are not in the NBA. 2 highest off the top of my head are 50 and 51 inches. Jordan kilganon is white and 6'1 and the best dunker I've ever seen and recorded a 50.

This guy, Daniel kebaya, while not as stylish looks to go even higher around the 51inch range

Are you a Hebrew?

you know and follow a heck of a lot basketball 

[Dave D]

Why  not ?


Kay Felder 5'9''
Isaiah Thomas  5'9''
Keith Jennings. Height: 5'7” ...
Red Klotz. Height: 5'7” ...
Wataru Misaka. Height: 5'7” ...
Monte Towe. Height: 5'7” ...
Spud Webb. Height: 5'7” ...
Mel Hirsch. Height: 5'6”
Earl Boykins. Height: 5'5”
Muggsy Bogues. Height: 5'3

Exactly. In the last 30 years ZERO HOF players under 5’9. AI is 5’10 a historic statistical anomaly.

ZERO players from Thunderbay at that size either.

[deadz]

If Kobe wasn't rich he wouldn't be dead. Oh well..really meaningless to me.

[che]

Exactly. In the last 30 years ZERO HOF players under 5’9. AI is 5’10 a historic statistical anomaly.

ZERO players from Thunderbay at that size either.

First you said Kobe wouldn’t have been an NBA player at 5’9 , now you are talking about HOF , BTW 90% of basketball players don't make it in the HOF

[Bevo]

Exactly. In the last 30 years ZERO HOF players under 5’9. AI is 5’10 a historic statistical anomaly.

ZERO players from Thunderbay at that size either.

Iverson is 5’11 ft

Chris Paul is 5’11 ft

[BBSSchlemiel]

Would this guy or any Hollywood celebs give a flying fuck if you and your family members died?!

Stupid American fucks act like they actually knew this guy.

[DanielPaul]

Not at all a basketball fan except for when the playoffs come around.  In this world of turmoil and chaos if there ever is a time when we as men can just zone it out it’s during sports.  Not a huge Kobe fan but I loved watching him play, after Jordan I thought we’d never see greatness close to that again, and then came Kobe. 
            It was a blast watching him play and again it was a sort of way just to just get away mentally.  Then came the rape allegations, which I’m going to be honest , just seem like some bitch that got banged, dumped and didn’t like it and sought to ruin a mans career.  The entire world should have seen through it but he was never really allowed to get out of the shadow of it.  If there ever were a true blood getbigger it was him lol.
           Horrible way to die, for your child to die and even now a band of feminazi’s are out there adding tarnish to his name.  My prayers are that he and his daughter are resting in peace with our Heavenly Father.  Rest In Peace Kobe and thank you for giving people like me an outlet.

[Earl1972]

To be that composed, motivated and consistent while being arguably the most famous man on the planet in the 90s?Nearly everyone wouldn't have been able to handle the pressure. Look at everyone else who was arguably as famous as him at the time, Tyson, Woods and Michael Jackson. All cracked under the fame and pressure. Jordans mind is truly one in a million.

he quit twice, once to play baseball so he felt the pressure too

E

[Earl1972]

What if leBron died tomorrow? Would that be as significant as kobe?

i was thinking about this, kobe's death is easily the biggest celebrity death since michael jackson

i think a large part of it is because he played in LA and those games are always filled with celebrities and being a star athlete in LA he made friends with them, so i think that might make his death a little bigger than lebron's but lebron still being active might make it bigger because that creates the "what if" for the basketball years he loses

tom brady, peyton manning, lebron, shaq, magic, jordan, tiger

i think that is the list of athlete deaths that would get similar or bigger reactions compared to kobe's death

maybe derek jeter too even though he was never the best at baseball, but he was a star and winner for the yankees maybe the most prestigous team in all of sports so that would enhance the reaction

E

[Dave D]

First you said Kobe wouldn’t have been an NBA player at 5’9 , now you are talking about HOF , BTW 90% of basketball players don't make it in the HOF

Nah bro you have to go back a couple pages when I was making my initial point, that being 6’7 and the son of a former NBA player with was a huge factor in Kobe’s NBA career but his work ethic set him apart.

Today I was beating home my idea that Kobe’s genetic gifts/lineage were as important as factor as anything else.

I think Pelius implied that great athletes are born, which to an extent is true.  As my point was if Kobe was a 5'9 male from Thunderbay, Canada he could have had the same work ethic but would have likely not ended up in the NBA, let alone been an all time great.

Conversely Kobe would have likely had multiple opportunities to play basketball at the elite/professional level putting forth minimal effort based on his physical gifts alone (Korelone Young was considered a diamond in the rough based on his physical gifts and he was drafted in the 2nd round 2 years after Kobe. But he wasnt mentally muture enough to be a professional).

It can be either or but RARELY is either one alone enough to be "great".

[Dave D]

Iverson is 5’11 ft

Chris Paul is 5’11 ft

Maybe. You can show me 15 links saying 5’11, I’ll share the same amount saying 5’10 and someone else will post NBA and ESPN .com saying 6’, which we know he was not.

[Kwon]

Exactly. In the last 30 years ZERO HOF players under 5’9. AI is 5’10 a historic statistical anomaly.

ZERO players from Thunderbay at that size either.

That's because no one from Thunder Bay (or Lakehead University for that matter) wants to join.

They were getting offered millions but to no avail.

[Dave D]

            It was a blast watching him play and again it was a sort of way just to just get away mentally.  Then came the rape allegations, which I’m going to be honest , just seem like some bitch that got banged, dumped and didn’t like it and sought to ruin a mans career.  The entire world should have seen through it but he was never really allowed to get out of the shadow of it. w a band of feminazi’s are out there adding tarnish to his name. 

Everyone has their own feelings on the rape case.

Kobe said they had sex but didn’t rape her but later publicly said he knows the woman did not share the same idea of what transpired between them.

The 19 year old girl said she was raped.

The prosecutor felt there was enough evidence to get a conviction.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28591646/kobe-bryant-colorado-prosecutor-recalls-case-linked-them

Whatever happened is irrelevant as Kobe sort of became an advocate of women and girls. I imagine being a father of all girls helped shaped this perspective.

The rape case is interesting though because people see Kobe as a victim or villain (and mostly victim) and they see the girl in the opposite light as Kobe, villain (mostly) or victim.

That said this incident never really tainted his legacy like most thought it would and that  Kobe was able to change his life’s narrative despite the charges (especially in today's culture) is nothing short of amazing.

[TacoBell]

I’m not knocking it, I said if he had the work ethic of Kobe. VC was a great player, his athleticism is still phenomenal at 42. He obviously worked and took care of his body, he’s had a HOF career but if he had Kobe’s drive he’s a different player.

*Kobe could have hung around like Vince and been a role player off the bench and still be playing today.

I think we are kind of saying the same thing, and more so in reference to some of your other posts.
There are lots of guys who have a relentless work ethic even at the top tier.
It's hard to say that Kobe truly 'worked harder' than a guy like VC.
We don't know that Kobe really could have still been playing, that achilles tear is a total trajectory changer more than other injuries.

But Kobe had 'something' other players simply didn't.  It's an intangible quality.  Its not just talent, or drive, or skill.  It's a combination of all those things plus the X factor that only the .001% possess.