Shocking views from joswift that surprised me

[pellius]

oh, so now morality has different levels?

Right OK... will God forgive him for all his infidelities?

You are either morally sound or you are not, when God gave us our morals did he share them out equally or did Western leaders get over their fair share?

I can't speak for God. We have moral bank accounts. We make deposits and withdrawals. Everyone is going to sin. It is the totality of a person's life that is taken into account. Yes, committing adultery is a sin but if, say you sacrificed your life so that others may live, the most Christ-like thing a person can do. Then you are way ahead of the game morally.

Yes, it does. There are gradations of sins. Some things are worse than others. Why isn't that obvious? Stealing and smuggling food off of a buffet or taking their silverware home is still stealing, but not to the same degree as bilking some retired couple out of their life savings and ruining their lives.

And Western leaders are morally superior not because God gave them more morals. God is the source of moral laws, he doesn't give out moral behavior favoring some but not others. What a truly assinine concept. It's like saying the government doesn't just make laws but gives others varying degrees of their capacity to adhere to those laws.

Western leaders are morally superior to tyrants because of their behavior. They don't starve their own people or torture them to death if they disagree with you.

I'm really amazed at you who likes to consider himself intelligent being so ignorant and morally confused. But keep talking. As someone said in another thread, "You always deliver."

[pellius]

So by your reasoning as long as we are friends at the time they can do what they like and if they do something we dont agree with then all bets are off and they are tyrants to be exterminated?

the CIA funded Afghan jihadists under the guise of Operation Cyclone when they were fighting Russia, a few years later the USA send in a kill squad to eliminate Osama Bin Laden

Dont you see its not about taking out leaders because they are despots, its purely for political reasons.

You seriously think these people are kiled because we believe they have skewed morals?

Oh boy, you really don't have any moral compass. Every situation you have to reinvent the wheel as you totally lack any moral foundation. That is the only explanation to explain these comments.

People, groups, countries become allies because they have commonly shared values and/or goals. We allied with Stalin because he was on our side fighting the Axis forces.
The relationship changed because we longer had shared values and goals but conflicting ones. Why do I have to even explain that? I had no idea until now just how messed up you are.

I had a couple of friends that were buddies since they were kids. Then one had a sexual relationship with the other's wife. One betrayed the other. The once common values and interest that bound them was broken and they became bitter enemies. And it doesn't mean one or the other has to be killed. Is that concept too abstruse for you? Too esoteric and perplexing?

[SF1900]

“So water can not be considered wet, under the circumstances that “wet” is an adjective that describes the surface of an object that is covered with water or another liquid, and water can not be covered in itself. On the other hand water is not dry since is a liquid. Water is just water.”

[joswift]

Oh boy, you really don't have any moral compass. Every situation you have to reinvent the wheel as you totally lack any moral foundation. That is the only explanation to explain these comments.

People, groups, countries become allies because they have commonly shared values and/or goals. We allied with Stalin because he was on our side fighting the Axis forces.
The relationship changed because we longer had shared values and goals but conflicting ones. Why do I have to even explain that? I had no idea until now just how messed up you are.

I had a couple of friends that were buddies since they were kids. Then one had a sexual relationship with the other's wife. One betrayed the other. The once common values and interest that bound them was broken and they became bitter enemies. And it doesn't mean one or the other has to be killed. Is that concept too abstruse for you? Too esoteric and perplexing?

why didnt he turn the other cheek?

Not a very Christian thing to do to hold a vendetta and hate someone is it?

If Gemany had won the war we would be reading the history books very differently , we would have no knowledge of the Holocaust and the stories would be of British and American and Russian soilders killing captive German soilders

You seem to think atrocities are just commited by the enemy.

Now thats a shallow and blinkered view if ever there was one.

[Twaddle]

Joswift > Pellius

[pellius]

why didnt he turn the other cheek?

Not a very Christian thing to do to hold a vendetta and hate someone is it?

If Gemany had won the war we would be reading the history books very differently , we would have no knowledge of the Holocaust and the stories would be of British and American and Russian soilders killing captive German soilders

You seem to think atrocities are just commited by the enemy.

Now thats a shallow and blinkered view if ever there was one.

It's always rich when a non-Christian lectures a Christian on how he should follow his faith. You have no idea what "turn the other cheek" means and it's only your shallowness and ignorance to interpret that to mean unconditional submission. Just like those that believe that "eye for an eye" means pure revenge. Again, quoting the Bible, a book you've never read, is just laughable.

Germany didn't win the war so it's a moot point. Another meaningless comment. You need to think through things before you post.

And where on earth did you get the notion that I think atrocities are only committed by our enemies? Where did I say or even imply that? Another example of a truly vapid and vacant mind that reads more into things and puts words in my mouth to suit your skewed agenda.

The Mai Lei massacre was not committed by our enemy. Neither was the genocide in Rwanda.  Remember the Deir Yassin massacre? Of course, you don't despite your veneer of being an educated person who can't spell or write properly.

Keep talking. Keep delivering, nitwit.

[joswift]

It's always rich when a non-Christian lectures a Christian on how he should follow his faith. You have no idea what "turn the other cheek" means and it's only your shallowness and ignorance to interpret that to mean unconditional submission. Just like those that believe that "eye for an eye" means pure revenge. Again, quoting the Bible, a book you've never read, is just laughable.

Germany didn't win the war so it's a moot point. Another meaningless comment. You need to think through things before you post.

And where on earth did you get the notion that I think atrocities are only committed by our enemies? Where did I say or even imply that? Another example of a truly vapid and vacant mind that reads more into things and puts words in my mouth to suit your skewed agenda.

The Mai Lei massacre was not committed by our enemy. Neither was the genocide in Rwanda.  Remember the Deir Yassin massacre? Of course, you don't despite your veneer of being an educated person who can't spell or write properly.

Keep talking. Keep delivering, nitwit.

History is written by the victors....

[Royalty]

Saddam Hussein had rape squads. Employed soldiers for the purpose of raping mothers and daughters to torment those who had offended him. One member of his own cabinet disagreed with him and he was beaten nearly to death, his house bulldozed, his two daughers (one was 11 years old the other 14) and wife repeatedly raped. This is not to mention the countless of his own people he has tortured (some being fed to lions and put in woodchippers feet first).

Kim Jung-un has murdered and tortured his own people and even had killed members of his own family.

Osama bin Laden wanted everyone who did not convert to his religion to be put to death.

And joswift believes that our and other Western leaders are no better or no worse than these tyrants and monsters.

I had no idea he was such a nut job.

Joswift condones this behavior

[joswift]

Joswift condones this behavior

Nope, just said hes no worse than anyone else in a position of power left unchecked..

Please dont tell me you believe there are people who could not commit the same atrocities given the right set of circumstances.

Think of the most evil people in history , you , you yourself could do exactly the same thing.

And someone who doesnt believe that is far more dangerous than someone who knows what hes capable of and chooses not to do it.

[chaos]

Nope, just said hes no worse than anyone else in a position of power left unchecked..

Please dont tell me you believe there are people who could not commit the same atrocities given the right set of circumstances.

Think of the most evil people in history , you , you yourself could do exactly the same thing.

And someone who doesnt believe that is far more dangerous than someone who knows what hes capable of and chooses not to do it.

It's why our founding fathers gave us the 2nd amendment.

[pellius]

Joswift condones this behavior

No, I'm not going to do what he, and a few others, do to me, embellish my words and assume things that I did not say.

Saying that two people engaging in the same type of behavior says nothing about whether you approve or condone such behavior. Just as saying one thing is better than something else is not the same as saying you condone or approve either behavior. That's a separate issue. It is quite valid to say you think one thing is better than the other yet dislike both or, conversely, like both but like one better than the other. I like both Coleman and Yates but think Yates is better. I like broccoli better than celery but dislike both.

He is equating our leaders as being morally equivalent to tyrants like Kim Jung-un and Saddam Hussein.

You are aware that those people were no better or worse than any political leaders in the West, you just seem to want to kill people who you disagree with or dont like.
Do you want George Bush and Tony Blair killed?

[pellius]

Nope, just said hes no worse than anyone else in a position of power left unchecked..

Please dont tell me you believe there are people who could not commit the same atrocities given the right set of circumstances.

Think of the most evil people in history , you , you yourself could do exactly the same thing.

And someone who doesnt believe that is far more dangerous than someone who knows what hes capable of and chooses not to do it.

I want everybody to pay close attention to these words. Think of the most evil people in history , you , you yourself could do exactly the same thing.

The implication that the only thing making you a decent person is not your personal value system, moral code, and basic sense of human decency, but just your circumstances. He knows your heart and soul better than you do. The arrogance, ignorance, audacity is just beyond comprehension.

This staggering morally confuse person thinks that you, if given the "right circumstances" would feed people to lions, rape their daughters, behead another human being, set someone on fire and watch them burn them to death...

And, again, soak in this derange moron's thinking "And someone who doesnt believe that is far more dangerous than someone who knows what hes capable of and chooses not to do it."

Yes, YOU, you who are reading this, are far more dangerous because you don't believe under any circumstances you would rape a six-year-old, or saw off the head of another person. YOU'RE the dangerous ones. Because you choose not to act like a monster that makes you the dangerous ones.

God, I love exposing these closet nut jobs.

[Twaddle]

[joswift]

He is equating our leaders as being morally equivalent to tyrants like Kim Jung-un and Saddam Hussein.

Suppose now that there were two such magic rings, and the just put on one of them and the unjust the other; no man can be imagined to be of such an iron nature that he would stand fast in justice. No man would keep his hands off what was not his own when he could safely take what he liked out of the market, or go into houses and lie with any one at his pleasure, or kill or release from prison whom he would, and in all respects be like a god among men.

Then the actions of the just would be as the actions of the unjust; they would both come at last to the same point. And this we may truly affirm to be a great proof that a man is just, not willingly or because he thinks that justice is any good to him individually, but of necessity, for wherever any one thinks that he can safely be unjust, there he is unjust.

For all men believe in their hearts that injustice is far more profitable to the individual than justice, and he who argues as I have been supposing, will say that they are right. If you could imagine any one obtaining this power of becoming invisible, and never doing any wrong or touching what was another's, he would be thought by the lookers-on to be a most wretched idiot, although they would praise him to one another's faces, and keep up appearances with one another from a fear that they too might suffer injustice.

— Plato, Republic, 360b–d

[pellius]

Suppose now that there were two such magic rings, and the just put on one of them and the unjust the other; no man can be imagined to be of such an iron nature that he would stand fast in justice. No man would keep his hands off what was not his own when he could safely take what he liked out of the market, or go into houses and lie with any one at his pleasure, or kill or release from prison whom he would, and in all respects be like a god among men.

Then the actions of the just would be as the actions of the unjust; they would both come at last to the same point. And this we may truly affirm to be a great proof that a man is just, not willingly or because he thinks that justice is any good to him individually, but of necessity, for wherever any one thinks that he can safely be unjust, there he is unjust.

For all men believe in their hearts that injustice is far more profitable to the individual than justice, and he who argues as I have been supposing, will say that they are right. If you could imagine any one obtaining this power of becoming invisible, and never doing any wrong or touching what was another's, he would be thought by the lookers-on to be a most wretched idiot, although they would praise him to one another's faces, and keep up appearances with one another from a fear that they too might suffer injustice.

— Plato, Republic, 360b–d

There are intelligent people who believe in God. There are intelligent people who do not. Plato believed in a planned heavily censored society ruled by a "Philosopher King". He is not the final word on morality and ethics. Plato precedes Christianity and the concept of ethical monotheism. He lived in a time of Polytheism and Pantheism. It's true that if there is no accountability then most humans will tend to be corrupt. That's why we have laws though even that is not foolproof. You believe this because you do not believe in God. The concept of good and bad is meaningless in a cosmic sense. The good and the evil share the same fate and since it's always easier to be bad then that where things will tend. I know in my personal life that I don't do things that I would have rather done and easily get away with, but I don't because it will reflect on my character and weigh against on my day of judgment. It can be something simple.

When I was shopping at Walmart after I paid for my items I was given back my change.
Because the line was long and people were waiting behind me I just kept the money in my hand and headed out to my car. When I got back to my car and started to put the change in my wallet I saw that my change which was supposed to be nine dollars and some change I had instead got one five-dollar bill, three one-dollar bills, and a twenty-dollar bill, along with the coins. It would be so easy and make no difference to Walmart if I kept the extra change but it would make a difference to me. I would be a thief and on my death bed this extra $19 would be so meaningless as I now have to account for my life. In my agonistic days, I would have kept it not so much out of dishonesty, if I realize the mistake at the counter I would have corrected it, but the hassle of having to get out of my car (I was running late) and having to stand back in line for something that was of little consequence just wouldn't be worth it.

To say that the only thing that keeps people from being responsible and the ones actually executing he acts of torture, rape, beheading is simply the circumstances is an insult to all the decent people reading this right now and all the decent people in the world with a moral code. Not everybody will behead another human being or rape a six-year-old under any circumstances. Just because you have no moral code and your acts are completely determined by your circumstances only shows your personal moral corruptness and you project, as is very common, that most people are like you.

They're not. And it is your colossal ego and hubris that presumes you can know what is in another man's heart.

 

[joswift]

There are intelligent people who believe in God. There are intelligent people who do not. Plato believed in a planned heavily censored society ruled by a "Philosopher King". He is not the final word on morality and ethics. Plato precedes Christianity and the concept of ethical monotheism. He lived in a time of Polytheism and Pantheism. It's true that if there is no accountability then most humans will tend to be corrupt. That's why we have laws though even that is not foolproof. You believe this because you do not believe in God. The concept of good and bad is meaningless in a cosmic sense. The good and the evil share the same fate and since it's always easier to be bad then that where things will tend. I know in my personal life that I don't do things that I would have rather done and easily get away with, but I don't because it will reflect on my character and weigh against on my day of judgment. It can be something simple.

When I was shopping at Walmart after I paid for my items I was given back my change.
Because the line was long and people were waiting behind me I just kept the money in my hand and headed out to my car. When I got back to my car and started to put the change in my wallet I saw that my change which was supposed to be nine dollars and some change I had instead got one five-dollar bill, three one-dollar bills, and a twenty-dollar bill, along with the coins. It would be so easy and make no difference to Walmart if I kept the extra change but it would make a difference to me. I would be a thief and on my death bed this extra $19 would be so meaningless as I now have to account for my life. In my agonistic days, I would have kept it not so much out of dishonesty, if I realize the mistake at the counter I would have corrected it, but the hassle of having to get out of my car (I was running late) and having to stand back in line for something that was of little consequence just wouldn't be worth it.

To say that the only thing that keeps people from being responsible and the ones actually executing he acts of torture, rape, beheading is simply the circumstances is an insult to all the decent people reading this right now and all the decent people in the world with a moral code. Not everybody will behead another human being or rape a six-year-old under any circumstances. Just because you have no moral code and your acts are completely determined by your circumstances only shows your personal moral corruptness and you project, as is very common, that most people are like you.

They're not. And it is your colossal ego and hubris that presumes you can know what is in another man's heart.

 

Go read "Ordinary men"

Its the story of a group of men, volounteers who were drafted into the Reserve Police Battalion 101 to help with the clearance of Jews in Poland in 1942.

They were told what was expected (killing pregnant women and children) and were given the option to not do it and step down, almost all of them went ahead, there were a few reasons for that, but the least of those reasons was because they thought they would enjoy it.

Almost everyone looks down on murderers and say "I could never do that", wrong, yes you could...and maybe enjoy it.

You have yourself already admitted to wanting to kill a guy in your neighbourhood.. not many people are ready to admit to that.

People watch Schindlers list and if asked say , Oh I would be like Oscar Shindler, I would save people"... errrr no, no you wouldnt, because people didnt.

Go watch some videos of "The Milgram Experiment"

[Ropo]

Saddam Hussein had rape squads. Employed soldiers for the purpose of raping mothers and daughters to torment those who had offended him. One member of his own cabinet disagreed with him and he was beaten nearly to death, his house bulldozed, his two daughers (one was 11 years old the other 14) and wife repeatedly raped. This is not to mention the countless of his own people he has tortured (some being fed to lions and put in woodchippers feet first).

Kim Jung-un has murdered and tortured his own people and even had killed members of his own family.

Osama bin Laden wanted everyone who did not convert to his religion to be put to death.

And joswift believes that our and other Western leaders are no better or no worse than these tyrants and monsters.

I had no idea he was such a nut job.

You have to understand that this kind of level of stupidity cannot exist in the mentally stable person. To be as stupid as he is, you need to have some kind of mental disorder or mental handicap. This is only way to explain that level of stupidity, which this dimwit presents.

[joswift]

You have to understand that this kind of level of stupidity cannot exist in the mentally stable person. To be as stupid as he is, you need to have some kind of mental disorder or mental handicap. This is only way to explain that level of stupidity, which this dimwit presents.

leave pellius alone, hes harmless and doesnt need to be attacked by you like that..

[Army of One]

You have to understand that this kind of level of stupidity cannot exist in the mentally stable person. To be as stupid as he is, you need to have some kind of mental disorder or mental handicap. This is only way to explain that level of stupidity, which this dimwit presents.

He is largely correct.We have barely evolved at all in 400 years, but go back that amount of time we'd have all been in the town Square to enjoy a good hanging, or if we were especially lucky a beheading or a drawing and quartering.I always say we are around 2-3 weeks from turning in to savages who would murder to stay alive.An emp taking out the entire electrical grid and killing every electronic device would see us in a walking dead scenario where it's everyman for himself before you could even fully process the situation.Any other view on humanity is naive.Like joswift said Nazi Germany got a whole country to either murder or turn a blind eye to the death of millions, and that was only 80 years ago.

[joswift]

He is largely correct.We have barely evolved at all in 400 years, but go back that amount of time we'd have all been in the town Square to enjoy a good hanging, or if we were especially lucky a beheading or a drawing and quartering.I always say we are around 2-3 weeks from turning in to savages who would murder to stay alive.An emp taking out the entire electrical grid and killing every electronic device would see us in a walking dead scenario where it's everyman for himself before you could even fully process the situation.Any other view on humanity is naive.Like joswift said Nazi Germany got a whole country to either murder or turn a blind eye to the death of millions, and that was only 80 years ago.

Finally, someone who can objectively look at themselves and see horrors that every one of us is capable of.

Pellius problem is he's to afraid to admit it..

[illuminati]

He is largely correct.We have barely evolved at all in 400 years, but go back that amount of time we'd have all been in the town Square to enjoy a good hanging, or if we were especially lucky a beheading or a drawing and quartering.I always say we are around 2-3 weeks from turning in to savages who would murder to stay alive.An emp taking out the entire electrical grid and killing every electronic device would see us in a walking dead scenario where it's everyman for himself before you could even fully process the situation.Any other view on humanity is naive.Like joswift said Nazi Germany got a whole country to either murder or turn a blind eye to the death of millions, and that was only 80 years ago.

Yes this is exactly what I say - Shut Down all electrical power - No Petrol Pumps No Food supplies No medicines Etc for 4-6 wks max - it’d be a Fight Of Survival - People attacking, Robbing, Killing one another for food ( it'd be quicker than that in Black inner cities as they already Killing one & another in great No.s )
Man hasn’t evolved very much really - This society is very precariously held together.
All these Liberal Leftists/ Snowflakes/ Vegans/ Vegetarians/ Would Either Man the Fuck up Real Quick or Be The 1st Lot To Go.

I’ve planned for it. Just in case. It’d be Kill or Be Killed - The Bigger The Cities the quicker it would deteriorate - Living in the Country would be slightly better.

[_bruce_]

There's lots of propaganda out there - the west has perfected it.

Think of Idi Amin's "infamous refridgerator" stories after he pissed of a certain group of blowhards.

[Twaddle]

Yes this is exactly what I say - Shut Down all electrical power - No Petrol Pumps No Food supplies No medicines Etc for 4-6 wks max - it’d be a Fight Of Survival - People attacking, Robbing, Killing one another for food ( it'd be quicker than that in Black inner cities as they already Killing one & another in great No.s )
Man hasn’t evolved very much really - This society is very precariously held together.
All these Liberal Leftists/ Snowflakes/ Vegans/ Vegetarians/ Would Either Man the Fuck up Real Quick or Be The 1st Lot To Go.

I’ve planned for it. Just in case. It’d be Kill or Be Killed - The Bigger The Cities the quicker it would deteriorate - Living in the Country would be slightly better.

I'd eat the vegans and vegetarians first.  They grass/grain fed, so they're for sure to be tasty.   

[illuminati]

I'd eat the vegans and vegetarians first.  They grass/grain fed, so they're for sure to be tasty.   

👍🏻 Damn Good idea.

[pellius]

Go read "Ordinary men"

Its the story of a group of men, volounteers who were drafted into the Reserve Police Battalion 101 to help with the clearance of Jews in Poland in 1942.

They were told what was expected (killing pregnant women and children) and were given the option to not do it and step down, almost all of them went ahead, there were a few reasons for that, but the least of those reasons was because they thought they would enjoy it.

Almost everyone looks down on murderers and say "I could never do that", wrong, yes you could...and maybe enjoy it.

You have yourself already admitted to wanting to kill a guy in your neighbourhood.. not many people are ready to admit to that.

People watch Schindlers list and if asked say , Oh I would be like Oscar Shindler, I would save people"... errrr no, no you wouldnt, because people didnt.

Go watch some videos of "The Milgram Experiment"

Go read the Bible.

Wanting to do something is far, far different than doing it. That's what makes a man civilized. You really have no moral compass and foundation. You insult and piss on all the brave men and women throughout history that, when tested, behaved with honor, courage, and, yes, goodness. People who sacrificed themselves for the sake of others -- often complete strangers. Just because you have no moral foundation and don't believe in an absolute moral right and moral wrong, and are just a monster unable to control himself given the situation don't project it onto others. Not everybody is like you. As our world grows more secular and moral relativism and moral confusion ever increases there are still decent and good people left in this world. Not perfect. We all do bad things, but we are not all monsters that will behead, torture, or rape children under certain conditions.

I really don't think anybody from reading your posts would ever have imagined the extent of how debauched, morally corrupt, pernicious, and malevolent a person you really are.