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Author Topic: Science/religion  (Read 1323 times)
IrishMuscle84
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« on: August 28, 2014, 04:44:56 PM »

Science................. ..being us at The mercy of...................... our bodies and its Chemicals/hormones.......................or Religion...............b eing at the mercy of GOD/JESUS CHRIST. Hmmmm................... .........I recently became a Believer and started reading scripture and listening to P/W music, and im somewhat conflicted.............. ...Because I myself have Mental ailments/disorders and Take Psych meds which would fall under the SCIENCE Category having to do with the BRAIN. Religion/spirituality says there is no mind, that the SOUL is the mind, but when I think of MIND, I think of the BRAIN and why do we have a brain ? And it also says the mental illness' are caused by Demonic possession but Science says its caused by having Chemical imbalances in our brain...........Again, im just conflicted.
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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2014, 10:46:32 AM »

Science................. ..being us at The mercy of...................... our bodies and its Chemicals/hormones.......................or Religion...............b eing at the mercy of GOD/JESUS CHRIST. Hmmmm................... .........I recently became a Believer and started reading scripture and listening to P/W music, and im somewhat conflicted.............. ...Because I myself have Mental ailments/disorders and Take Psych meds which would fall under the SCIENCE Category having to do with the BRAIN. Religion/spirituality says there is no mind, that the SOUL is the mind, but when I think of MIND, I think of the BRAIN and why do we have a brain ? And it also says the mental illness' are caused by Demonic possession but Science says its caused by having Chemical imbalances in our brain...........Again, im just conflicted.

God bless you for your honesty and humility.  

It's perfectly fine to question or even doubt....many, many believers have all sorts of questions.  Remember as believers we grow and mature in our faith and knowledge of scripture, theology and the Lord.   New believers should never feel burdened by doubts or nagging questions, but have the boldness to seek answers....exactly as you have!  

Always be willing to seek the truth under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and seek counsel from those senior to you with more mature faith whose lives are also lead by the Holy Spirit.

Here's my take on what you're experiencing.  

Mental illness is a definite medical condition....your brain is literally sick and medication (under a physician's care) can help correct or stabilize the situation to varying degrees.  

It's what I would consider an experience that effects you from the "inside out".  

Demonic oppression/possession are experiences that effect you from the "outside in".  

Certainly demonic activity can reek havoc on your disposition causing your emotions and stress to compromise your immune system if you allow it, but again those triggers occur from the outside and disrupt you on the inside.  Only God, prayer and his word can deliver you from demonic attacks and never dismiss the power of prayer and calling on the name of Jesus/Yeshuah/Yahweh/I AM.....demons flee at his name.  I know because I've experienced it personally and repeatedly.

Mental illness is a definite medical ailment of the brain.  It starts from within you (with no demonic coercion that I'm aware is possible) and can effect everything outside of yourself.  In this case both prayer and the care of physicians can help eliminate or at least alleviate the condition.

In terms of healing I've posted the following previously:

I've always subscribed to following in terms of my faith and "healing" in that God has provided 3 types:

1) Divine healing that some folks would interpret as a miracle (ex: Jesus healing the blind on the streets)
2) Ability within the body to heal itself as set forth by the creator (ex: the body being able to heal itself from a cold or flu with no outside assistance)
3) Healing via continually improving medical science via the gifts of knowledge, discernment and understanding that God has imparted to members of the scientific and medical community (LOL, we ain't all brainiacs....especially theists!!  Wink ).

Certainly this isn't an exhaustive list, but general categories as I see it.

I agree with you and it is ridiculous.  As a believers we're entrusted with the whole of creation and that which is developed threrein.   I've never grasped the link that some believers make between taking advantage of medical technology and therefore having a lack of faith LOL....feels like a nonsequitor to me.

I also like how the Quran very plainly states the position on medical technology and science.  

The bible isn't quite as straightforward as that LOL.  Paul mentions drinking a bit of wine to settle a sour stomach and there are references to injuries being treated with the medicine of the time.   Heck, gospel writer Luke was a companion of the apostle Paul, but before that he was a doctor.  He became a Christian yet he still remained a doctor.

Within the book of Galatians Paul notes the sin of sorcery which is rooted in the greek term pharmakeia (pharmacy).  This isn't indicating that medicines in general are bad.  The context is about sorcery and witchcraft and avoiding making or partaking in elicit drugs (potions) for purposes of engaging in witchcraft, the occult or abusing drugs in general for non-medical purposes and allowing it consume a person creating addictions that oppose God's will for our lives.  

I think folks misinterpret these passages of scripture, but again I agree that the behavior is ridiculous.  If my kid skins her knee she's gettin some ointment, a bandage, a little tylenol and a hug LOL!

In terms of demonic oppression and possession I’ve posted the following previously:

I’ll do my best.

Demonic oppression is a term that defines the activities of those spiritual enemies of God (demons) who seek to oppress both believers and nonbelievers alike so that they will pull or turn from God’s will for their lives and engage in sinful behavior.  Tactics of oppression play upon the person’s emotions and recognized weaknesses….it is spiritual warfare so strategy is employed.   Fear, dread, anxiety, disconnection, addiction, anger, bitterness, jealousy are all used to oppress individuals (not an exhaustive list of tactics by any means).    From my personal experience I’ve experienced a number of things I could speak about in length, but in short I’ve experienced recurring/irrational nightmares, irrational fear, irrational anxiety, desires for suicide, irrational anger and constantly questioning “are you really a Christian”.    These have all been experienced at different times in my life and have been utilized by the enemy based upon my circumstance.    C.S.Lewis’ book “The Screwtape Letters” is a wonderful portrayal of demonic oppression written from the perspective of demons at the helm of the oppression.

Demonic possession is literally when a demon takes possession of a person and that person becomes a shell or host for the demon(s).  The majority of cases I’ve read about are based on people already deeply engaged in occult practices like witchcraft, voodoo, santeria, Satanism, etc…. In these instances people entrenched in these behaviors will become hosts for demons and their thoughts and actions controlled by demons because the person possessed is no longer in control.  Possession implies ownership and those poor folks that succumb to possession no longer fully own who they are as individuals.   These demons can speak through them and suppress who they are as I mentioned.  It’s nothing I ever desire to see in person.  Believers in Christ cannot be possessed by demons because they belong to God.

As I type these words I can feel the presence of the Holy Spirit with me.

For those that don’t know Christ I urge you to come to him and consider who is he and what he’s done for you.  He loves you and  wants to enter into an unbreakable relationship with you and help deliver you from your sin.  I urge those that don’t know him and that would like to know him to pray that God reveal himself to you.  He loves you more than you know and it’s never too late to surrender fully.

Romans 10:9
9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.



Butterbean has also addressed demonic oppression and possession previously:

Question: "Can a Christian be demon possessed? Can a Christian be demonized?"

Answer:
While Bible does not explicitly state whether a Christian can be possessed by a demon, related biblical truths make it abundantly clear that Christians cannot be demon possessed. There is a distinct difference between being possessed by a demon and being oppressed or influenced by a demon. Demon possession involves a demon having direct/complete control over the thoughts and/or actions of a person (Matthew 17:14-18; Luke 4:33-35; 8:27-33). Demon oppression or influence involves a demon or demons attacking a person spiritually and/or encouraging him/her into sinful behavior. Notice that in all the New Testament passages dealing with spiritual warfare, there are no instructions to cast a demon out of a believer (Ephesians 6:10-18). Believers are told to resist the devil (James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:8-9), not to cast him out.

Christians are indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9-11; 1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19). Surely the Holy Spirit would not allow a demon to possess the same person He is indwelling. It is unthinkable that God would allow one of His children, whom He purchased with the blood of Christ (1 Peter 1:18-19) and made into a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17), to be possessed and controlled by a demon. Yes, as believers, we wage war with Satan and his demons, but not from within ourselves. The apostle John declares, “You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the One who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world” (1 John 4:4). Who is the One in us? The Holy Spirit. Who is the one in the world? Satan and his demons. Therefore, the believer has overcome the world of demons, and the case for demon possession of a believer cannot be made scripturally.

With the strong biblical evidence that a Christian cannot be demon possessed in view, some Bible teachers use the term “demonization” to refer to a demon having control over a Christian. Some argue that while a Christian cannot be demon possessed, a Christian can be demonized. Typically, the description of demonization is virtually identical to the description of demon possession. So, the same issue results. Changing the terminology does not change the fact that a demon cannot inhabit or take full control of a Christian. Demonic influence and oppression are realities for Christians, no doubt, but it is simply not biblical to say that a Christian can be possessed by a demon or demonized.

Much of the reasoning behind the demonization concept is the personal experience of seeing someone who was “definitely” a Christian exhibiting evidence of being controlled by a demon. It is crucially important, though, that we do not allow personal experience to influence our interpretation of Scripture. Rather, we must filter our personal experiences through the truth of Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Seeing someone whom we thought to be a Christian exhibiting the behavior of being demonized should cause us to question the genuineness of his/her faith. It should not cause us alter our viewpoint on whether a Christian can be demon possessed / demonized. Perhaps the person truly is a Christian but is severely demon oppressed and/or suffering from severe psychological problems. But again, our experiences must meet the test of Scripture, not the other way around.

www.gotquestions.org

Recommended Resource: The Handbook for Spiritual Warfare (Revised & Updated) by Ed Murphy.


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IrishMuscle84
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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2014, 06:58:12 PM »

Thank you so so so so so much for shedding a great light on this matter !!!

A couple scriptures I say when I feel " oppressed "............or their " presence ".

Mark 3:11.............And the Unclean spirits, whenever they saw him, they would fall down before him and shout, You are the son of God !

Mark 1:25-26..........And jesus Rebuked him, saying " Be quiet and come out of him "...........The unclean spirit shook the man violently and with a loud cry, came out of him.

And for My mental illness'..................

Matthew 17:15.........." Lord have mercy on my son, for he is a lunatic and is very ill, often times he falls into fire, and often into water ".

With this one I re-word it when I say it and say..........." Lord have mercy on " me ", for " iam " a lunatic and am very ill "...................Im guessing LUNATIC is another word for PSYCHOTIC/PSYCHOSIS, which I have, but also take an Anti-psychotic med for.

Mark 5:5.........Constantly Night and day, he was screaming among the tombs and in the mountains, gashing himself with stones.

1 Peter 5:7..........Cast all your anxiety unto him because he cares for you.

James 1:8............A doubleminded man is unstable in all his ways. (bipolar and Split thinking from Borderline personality)

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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2014, 02:11:32 PM »

Science................. ..being us at The mercy of...................... our bodies and its Chemicals/hormones.......................or Religion...............b eing at the mercy of GOD/JESUS CHRIST. Hmmmm................... .........I recently became a Believer and started reading scripture and listening to P/W music, and im somewhat conflicted.............. ...Because I myself have Mental ailments/disorders and Take Psych meds which would fall under the SCIENCE Category having to do with the BRAIN. Religion/spirituality says there is no mind, that the SOUL is the mind, but when I think of MIND, I think of the BRAIN and why do we have a brain ? And it also says the mental illness' are caused by Demonic possession but Science says its caused by having Chemical imbalances in our brain...........Again, im just conflicted.

You feel conflicted because you are experiencing something called cognitive dissonance. You have no soul, the reason the drugs work and you have a brain is because science is correct. How do you explain multiple personalities? multiple souls? how do you explain an increase in population?

I hope you don't actually beleive this shit. Come off your meds and fight the demons bro. Roll Eyes
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