TRENBOLONE... The Holy Grail???

[Van_Bilderass]

100% agree^

All the ugl shit is way under dosed....

That's why everybody's running grams and grams, these days compared to old, really they're not....

It's factually incorrect to say it's ALL underdosed. UGL gear has been tested in labs all over the world, sometimes even by governments as they are trying to build cases against drug dealers. So there is data available. Sometimes they are even way overdosed.

[harmankardon1]

It's factually incorrect to say it's ALL underdosed. UGL gear has been tested in labs all over the world, sometimes even by governments as they are trying to build cases against drug dealers. So there is data available. Sometimes they are even way overdosed.

I didn't say it was "all" under dosed I said "way" underdosed....

Even if I did it doesn't matter, it's a generalisation and shouldn't beaten literally. The statement is to highlight the fact that the great majority of ugl gear is under dosed to some degree, with a lot being greatly under-dosed.

 imo half dosages of the stated mgs are not uncommon by any means.

[illuminati]

I used a ton of legit Zambon 2mg tabs as well as the injects and I thought it sucked, didn't really get anything out of it. It's not that the gear was bad, it was quality, but stanozolol was just a weak drug for me. I've personally had fantastic results with some UG drugs when compared with the pharma equivalent - and often it seemed like the UGL was better. For example Anapolon/Androlic/Oxybolone compared to some Chinese UGL drol. Same with the testosterones, Decas and what have you. The problem with UGLs is that there is no assurance they are always correctly dosed but there are very real drugs on the UGL black market.

That Dorian says he wouldn't have been able to handle more than 225mg of tren a week doesn't mean there is no "real" tren made in Chinese labs, or that the Negma Para was somehow many times more potent. UGL tren can be rough going too as anyone who has used it knows.

Exactly where did I say there is
1, No decent quality UG Steroids around
2, or That Dorian meant there was no decent UG Tren Made

The problem with the UGL is Quality control & Quality of the raw ingredients.

Go Buy a Bentley/ Aston Martin & compare the Quality of comparable parts
I.E Brake Calipers / Leather / Engine Castings - Do you think there would be no difference?
Let alone Comparing with after market cheap Chinese pattern parts.

Yeah the 1000/ 2000 mgs a week it Tren Physiques About in any Big Busy Gym you go to
Look so Good. Well Not that I See & I Also Judge For NABBA.
Are The Physiques on the Olympia stage Better Quality Than that of late 80’s & 90’s -
No they are Not - They should be with these 1000/2000 mg a week of Tren.

We’re all pretty much forced to buy UG Gear - Finding a Reasonable Quality one is difficult
For many depending on area & Contacts.

[illuminati]

I didn't say it was "all" under dosed I said "way" underdosed....

Even if I did it doesn't matter, it's a generalisation and shouldn't beaten literally. The statement is to highlight the fact that the great majority of ugl gear is under dosed to some degree, with a lot being greatly under-dosed.

 imo half dosages of the stated mgs are not uncommon by any means.

This x2
And Quality of Raw ingredients & Manufacturing process.
One of the more common tricks is to just use Test Propionate or Cyp
For all products as the user will get a boost out of them & they’re cheap
Compounds to buy.

[harmankardon1]

Tren is one of the easiest to pick, you know if you have at least some legit tren....

As for others yeah I think there is a lot of faking with cheaper compounds, equipoise is almost always faked with test imo...

[pamith]

I would never take steroids

[illuminati]

I would never take steroids

Really - Not even if you were in Hospital & your Life Depended On them administering
Steroids to you ?

Do you eat Farm Produced Meats ? 

[ilalin]

250IU x2/week HCG
18-30 mg tren ace/day
400mg drostanolone enanthate/week (prevents too much progesterone binding)
50mg mesterolone/day for a healthy D.Cheney
wash hair 2xweek with Nizoral (leave in hair for 10 min) that contains a topical anti-androgen to prevent hair loss

20mg nolva/day for 5 weeks post cycle

not too many issues with sides, great lean gains

oh yeah, and fuck Cheney!

[illuminati]

250IU x2/week HCG
18-30 mg tren ace/day
400mg drostanolone enanthate/week (prevents too much progesterone binding)
50mg mesterolone/day for a healthy D.Cheney
wash hair 2xweek with Nizoral (leave in hair for 10 min) that contains a topical anti-androgen to prevent hair loss

20mg nolva/day for 5 weeks post cycle

not too many issues with sides, great lean gains

oh yeah, and fuck Cheney!

Sounds ok
And Your Happy with Results - That’s the Main Thing.

All without going to huge amounts - Good for You.

[Van_Bilderass]

I didn't say it was "all" under dosed I said "way" underdosed....

Even if I did it doesn't matter, it's a generalisation and shouldn't beaten literally. The statement is to highlight the fact that the great majority of ugl gear is under dosed to some degree, with a lot being greatly under-dosed.

 imo half dosages of the stated mgs are not uncommon by any means.

Yeah alright. It's just that there is this belief among some that it's impossible to source quality raw material that is equivalent to the "real thing". The labs aren't very reliable and there is always uncertainty when dealing with the illegal black market.

I've seen some oldtimerss here claim that as a matter of fact all UGL steroids are nothing but watered down test.
I even remember Craig Titus saying that there is absolutely no real trenbolone available anywhere. This was back when people were using Finaplix. He was basically saying it was not trenbolone.

[mazrim]

There are lots of good UG raws, etc.

I can say that strangely enough the pellets seemed to work better then the raw powder, though.

Ran up to 150mg/day of pellets. Raws I have done as much as 300mg/day. That original raw source was maybe not as good but seemed to be the case with all I've tried when it has come to Tren, though. Never use it anymore so the powders I know nowadays that are good may be comparable to the pellets.

[Van_Bilderass]

Exactly where did I say there is
1, No decent quality UG Steroids around
2, or That Dorian meant there was no decent UG Tren Made

The problem with the UGL is Quality control & Quality of the raw ingredients.

Go Buy a Bentley/ Aston Martin & compare the Quality of comparable parts
I.E Brake Calipers / Leather / Engine Castings - Do you think there would be no difference?
Let alone Comparing with after market cheap Chinese pattern parts.

Yeah the 1000/ 2000 mgs a week it Tren Physiques About in any Big Busy Gym you go to
Look so Good. Well Not that I See & I Also Judge For NABBA.
Are The Physiques on the Olympia stage Better Quality Than that of late 80’s & 90’s -
No they are Not - They should be with these 1000/2000 mg a week of Tren.

We’re all pretty much forced to buy UG Gear - Finding a Reasonable Quality one is difficult
For many depending on area & Contacts.

Didn't mean to put words in your mouth. IIRC you are in the UK or Ireland? For example Jordan Peters saying that for example every UGL Primo he has had tested contained the real hormone, and Primo is prime canditate for being the wrong hormone due to the price. Also that there area lot of "real" drugs in that part of the world due to location and laws and so on.

Most people look like shit. Real drugs don't necessarily mean great physiques. Back in Arnold's day everything was real but even many of the top physiques looked "natural" by today's standards on those prime drugs. Let me see if I can find a few pics to illustrate my point...

[AbrahamG]

I used tren E @ 250mg's per week for 10 weeks. I fortunately didn't experience any negative sides. But, it was obvious to anyone who knew me or saw me regularly that I was doing something. It is a game changer. I'll never do it again being that I'm closing in on 47 and doubt the sacred thong is in the cards.

[Van_Bilderass]

Raws I have done as much as 300mg/day.

Holy hell, even if the tren was absolute shit at 50% purity that's a lot of tren 

[Irongrip400]

I ran it about 15 years ago when in college. I front loaded a cycle with it for the first six weeks, at 75mg EOD. I made it from Finaplex H tabs I bought from Southern States Ag store. Bought the kit off line and made the shit myself. I can say, I was never stronger, and actually got weaker the last four weeks of my cycle when I stopped it even though I added Winstrol. It beat my libido to death and gave me a small bit of gyno in one pec. I’m never super cut so it’s not noticeable but I can feel it.

[illuminati]

Didn't mean to put words in your mouth. IIRC you are in the UK or Ireland? For example Jordan Peters saying that for example every UGL Primo he has had tested contained the real hormone, and Primo is prime canditate for being the wrong hormone due to the price. Also that there area lot of "real" drugs in that part of the world due to location and laws and so on.

Most people look like shit. Real drugs don't necessarily mean great physiques. Back in Arnold's day everything was real but even many of the top physiques looked "natural" by today's standards on those prime drugs. Let me see if I can find a few pics to illustrate my point...

I’m in England & Have access to some Decent UG Gear.
Forget finding any pics - as there’s always been sub par Physiques
With or without UG / Pharma Gear.
This 2000mgs a week of Tren really Dosent Seem To be Building all these
Huge quality Physiques - I visit many gyms & many are taking huge amounts.
So we can surmise it’s not huge amounts of Gear that is working for the Vast Majority
- Well certainly not the Majority I see.
Pherhaps they Need To Take 5000mgs a Week of Quality UG Tren for it to work - Who Knows.
 

[Coach is Back!]

I’m in England & Have access to some Decent UG Gear.
Forget finding any pics - as there’s always been sub par Physiques
With or without UG / Pharma Gear.
This 2000mgs a week of Tren really Dosent Seem To be Building all these
Huge quality Physiques - I visit many gyms & many are taking huge amounts.
So we can surmise it’s not huge amounts of Gear that is working for the Vast Majority
- Well certainly not the Majority I see.
Pherhaps they Need To Take 5000mgs a Week of Quality UG Tren for it to work - Who Knows.
 

Couldn’t imagine anyone on 2000mg of tren. I know winning pros who are are on less than 3grms for their total cycle. I’m not saying you’re wrong I’m saying that’s insane.

[illuminati]

Couldn’t imagine anyone on 2000mg of tren. I know winning pros who are are on less than 3grms for their total cycle. I’m not saying you’re wrong I’m saying that’s insane.

That’s my point - I couldn’t imagine anyone on 1500/2000mgs of Pharmaceutical grade Tren ( Parabolan)
Though we often here of those amounts of Tren & Certainly of 1000mgs + a week being banded about on this board & on Internet & (for me ) in some of the Gyms I Visit.

And we have some saying UG Gear is as good if not better than Pharma Quality,
That’s where I disagree - Though as always I could be Wrong.

This Excessive More is Better seems to have taken over many many Minds.

[harmankardon1]

Couldn’t imagine anyone on 2000mg of tren. I know winning pros who are are on less than 3grms for their total cycle. I’m not saying you’re wrong I’m saying that’s insane.

I think two grams of tren is insane....

The only reason I mention that dose is that is what i was told as a number for Dallas, along with his ten grams off test that we can figure from the bloods. The guy that mentioned that dose is reliable so it could be true ( not saying it is, as who really knows what someone's taking) but still.

[Van_Bilderass]

Couldn’t imagine anyone on 2000mg of tren. I know winning pros who are are on less than 3grms for their total cycle. I’m not saying you’re wrong I’m saying that’s insane.

I think two grams of tren is insane....

The only reason I mention that dose is that is what i was told as a number for Dallas, along with his ten grams off test that we can figure from the bloods. The guy that mentioned that dose is reliable so it could be true ( not saying it is, as who really knows what someone's taking) but still.

That’s my point - I couldn’t imagine anyone on 1500/2000mgs of Pharmaceutical grade Tren ( Parabolan)
Though we often here of those amounts of Tren & Certainly of 1000mgs + a week being banded about on this board & on Internet & (for me ) in some of the Gyms I Visit.

And we have some saying UG Gear is as good if not better than Pharma Quality,
That’s where I disagree - Though as always I could be Wrong.

This Excessive More is Better seems to have taken over many many Minds.

There was a thread a few years ago on another forum where Dallas McCarver's old coach was discussed, the O'Reagan gaylord. Some who had been coached by him also participated. Apparently he recommended something like 400mg of tren acetate every other day, on top of everything else of course, and these guys were still low level amateurs.

But common sense tells us that there is a point of diminishing returns with gear as well as a point where it starts being outright counterproductive due to toxic sides. You lose your appetite, get very lethargic (very common with tren, can't sleep but feel very tired all the time), laboured breathing due to what tren does to your cardio/lungs and so on.

As far as Dallas blood level at the time of death, I think it's probably hard to extrapolate his weekly dosage accurately from that. The blood levels could be affected by hydration level, individual metabolism, the type of product used (say a large test base or suspension shot could give some wild numbers shorty after injection).

And what is pharma gear exactly anyway? If some lab is legally registered in some third world country but the whole operation is about putting product into the black market, can you trust it like a you would a western pharmaceutical company who tries hard to keep their product out of the black market? Or if you get compounded gear via prescription from some shady us HRT clinic, do you think it will be just as good as a legit Schering product from a western pharmacy? I think it very well could be but maybe not always. In some instances UGL gear could seem extra potent since some labs have intentionally overdosed their gear to get a good reputation. Even back when IP started the whole UGL scene, I remember some of his Winstrol tabs coming back as overdosed whereas other products sometimes were underdosed or even had the wrong compound.

[a_pupil]

for the average gymgoer, are the tren mental sides even worth it?

I remember taking 1ml 3 times a week and everyday at work (in my head) was like this

it's better to stick to gear that'll keep you happy and loving life. Like test, dbol, winny (if your hair can hack it) and var

[harmankardon1]

There was a thread a few years ago on another forum where Dallas McCarver's old coach was discussed, the O'Reagan gaylord. Some who had been coached by him also participated. Apparently he recommended something like 400mg of tren acetate every other day, on top of everything else of course, and these guys were still low level amateurs.

But common sense tells us that there is a point of diminishing returns with gear as well as a point where it starts being outright counterproductive due to toxic sides. You lose your appetite, get very lethargic (very common with tren, can't sleep but feel very tired all the time), laboured breathing due to what tren does to your cardio/lungs and so on.

As far as Dallas blood level at the time of death, I think it's probably hard to extrapolate his weekly dosage accurately from that. The blood levels could be affected by hydration level, individual metabolism, the type of product used (say a large test base or suspension shot could give some wild numbers shorty after injection).

And what is pharma gear exactly anyway? If some lab is legally registered in some third world country but the whole operation is about putting product into the black market, can you trust it like a you would a western pharmaceutical company who tries hard to keep their product out of the black market? Or if you get compounded gear via prescription from some shady us HRT clinic, do you think it will be just as good as a legit Schering product from a western pharmacy? I think it very well could be but maybe not always. In some instances UGL gear could seem extra potent since some labs have intentionally overdosed their gear to get a good reputation. Even back when IP started the whole UGL scene, I remember some of his Winstrol tabs coming back as overdosed whereas other products sometimes were underdosed or even had the wrong compound.

There are some variations in metabolism etc between individuals but it is very safe to say that Dallas was running a minimum 5000 mgs a week or test, that's the absolute minimum based on his bloods.... 10 grams is a more likely number.

He was during offseason, he would not have been shooting suspension every day.

As for amateurs running 400 mgs tren EOD that's just irresponsible and a shitty protocol, you burn out on the drug and have no where to go as you progress, stupidity.

[mazrim]

Holy hell, even if the tren was absolute shit at 50% purity that's a lot of tren  

Yeah, I've had my pics used as the Tren man on a few forums because I am completely open with doses.

Over the years, I think I've lost my stubbornness in pushing down the fact that despite not feeling bad on it, it probably is not so great for you. And now that I am not so brainwashed about estrogen, I would tend towards higher test as back then I ran zero to 150/week.

I would say that probably around 150/day is where there is not really much point in going above that.

[dj181]

Yeah, I've had my pics used as the Tren man on a few forums because I am completely open with doses.

Over the years, I think I've lost my stubbornness in pushing down the fact that despite not feeling bad on it, it probably is not so great for you. And now that I am not so brainwashed about estrogen, I would tend towards higher test as back then I ran zero to 150/week.

I would say that probably around 150/day is where there is not really much point in going above that.

How did you handle zero test? I've tried it a few times and could never last longer than 4 weeks without it

Also could you post up pics of how you looked on 300 mgs of tren a day?

[borsen8]

There are lots of good UG raws, etc.

I can say that strangely enough the pellets seemed to work better then the raw powder, though.

Ran up to 150mg/day of pellets. Raws I have done as much as 300mg/day. That original raw source was maybe not as good but seemed to be the case with all I've tried when it has come to Tren, though. Never use it anymore so the powders I know nowadays that are good may be comparable to the pellets.

Pics or gtfo