Ahmaud Arbery - Discussion

[Primemuscle]

I've done it: once when I was a kid, and several times for my new home.

Architecture and construction have always interested me. I have walked through more houses under construction than I can count. Go into any subdivision under construction and you'll see folks walking through houses that are being built. It is trespassing and builders sometimes put up no trespassing signs which they do to protect themselves should someone walking around the site get hurt. It makes it a little more difficult to sue the builder. Even realtors will ignore no trespassing signs if they want to scope the place out for their clients.

[Thin Lizzy]

Yeah the owner only invested a few hundred grand in the house. Why wouldn’t he want some scummy dindu with a history of theft wandering around there frequently looking for stuff to steal?

[chaos]

Doesn't the length of the gun indicate there was some distance between McMichaels and Ahmaud? I'm trying to envision how if they were in a scuffle this would work.  Wouldn't they be too close together physically for one to shoot the other? Maybe Ahmaud had ridiculously long arms, like 4' which is the average length of a shotgun and was thus able to attack McMichaels whilst being shot by him.

In bold....no it's not.
Did you watch the video? Did you see the struggle? Did you see the way he ran around the front of the truck and immediately attacked the guy holding the shotgun?

[Marvin Martian]

Wrong is wrong - i just don’t understand why we NEVER see news about black men killing whites? Is that somehow less wrong? If a white killing a black is a hate crime is not the reverse also a hate crime?
Recently a black woman was turned away from a store for refusing to wear a mask - and while I think that is fckn stupid - she went home and had her husband and son go back to the store to murder the man who stopped her. It was reported but dropped immediately. Was that less wrong than this case?

[Agnostic007]

Doesn't the length of the gun indicate there was some distance between McMichaels and Ahmaud? I'm trying to envision how if they were in a scuffle this would work.  Wouldn't they be too close together physically for one to shoot the other? Maybe Ahmaud had ridiculously long arms, like 4' which is the average length of a shotgun and was thus able to attack McMichaels whilst being shot by him.

if you watch the video they come back into frame. Ahmaud holding the barrel

[Earl1972]

Wrong is wrong - i just don’t understand why we NEVER see news about black men killing whites? Is that somehow less wrong? If a white killing a black is a hate crime is not the reverse also a hate crime?
Recently a black woman was turned away from a store for refusing to wear a mask - and while I think that is fckn stupid - she went home and had her husband and son go back to the store to murder the man who stopped her. It was reported but dropped immediately. Was that less wrong than this case?

doesn't fit their anti white agenda

i really don't know how any white person can vote democrat at this point when it's so obvious they want you dead

E

[Agnostic007]

In bold....no it's not.
Did you watch the video? Did you see the struggle? Did you see the way he ran around the front of the truck and immediately attacked the guy holding the shotgun?

Yes, I saw the video. It cuts off of Ahmuad just as he's approaching the rear of the vehicle. McMichaels is standing at the driver door. When the video takes up again, McMichaels appears to have moved around the front of the pickup as Ahmaud is seen coming from the passenger side towards the front and then you see the scuffle. What you call attacking seems a little off. From what I read the video we see starts after an incident where the McMichaels had already tried to confront Arbery. This shows where they are cutting him off for the second time. It's obvious McMichaels wasn't merely standing still at the driver door. he had moved to intercept Arbery. Arbery seeing this likely makes a decision that these guys aren't giving up and he tries to take the gun away from McMichaels. Sounds more like self defense than attacking if what I described is accurate. If it's not, please provide the info and I will reevaluate 

[chaos]

Yes, I saw the video. It cuts off of Ahmuad just as he's approaching the rear of the vehicle. McMichaels is standing at the driver door. When the video takes up again, McMichaels appears to have moved around the front of the pickup as Ahmaud is seen coming from the passenger side towards the front and then you see the scuffle. What you call attacking seems a little off. From what I read the video we see starts after an incident where the McMichaels had already tried to confront Arbery. This shows where they are cutting him off for the second time. It's obvious McMichaels wasn't merely standing still at the driver door. he had moved to intercept Arbery. Arbery seeing this likely makes a decision that these guys aren't giving up and he tries to take the gun away from McMichaels. Sounds more like self defense than attacking if what I described is accurate. If it's not, please provide the info and I will reevaluate

Video is shit and tough to make out. If you slow it down at 19-20 seconds in, you can clearly see the guy change directions in his run and charge directly at the other guy holding the gun who is standing on the drivers side of the vehicle still, gun down. A fight ensues and we lose them out of frame, when they come back in frame, the dead guy is holding the barrel of the gun, striking the guy holding the stock. He quickly lets go, staggers and dies.
You say it's obvious McMichaels wasn't standing at the drivers door, what do you base that on? The fact that he moved around to the front of the truck?

BTW, I'm in no way defending these guys, I feel like they were definitely looking for trouble, but I also don't think the dead guy was Mr Innocent out for a leisurely 20 miles jog.

[hardgainerj]

[Agnostic007]

Video is shit and tough to make out. If you slow it down at 19-20 seconds in, you can clearly see the guy change directions in his run and charge directly at the other guy holding the gun who is standing on the drivers side of the vehicle still, gun down. A fight ensues and we lose them out of frame, when they come back in frame, the dead guy is holding the barrel of the gun, striking the guy holding the stock. He quickly lets go, staggers and dies.
You say it's obvious McMichaels wasn't standing at the drivers door, what do you base that on? The fact that he moved around to the front of the truck?

BTW, I'm in no way defending these guys, I feel like they were definitely looking for trouble, but I also don't think the dead guy was Mr Innocent out for a leisurely 20 miles jog.

I don't think we can say Travis was standing at the drivers side. What we do know from the video is Travis exited the vehicle and was by the drivers door. In the next instance we see him being driven back now in front of the truck on the drivers side. You can tell from the video when they were engaged, McMichaels was no longer at the door. So yes, I base it on the fact he moved...

Here's what I think. Aerbury wasn't a saint. I don't think he stole anything from that site. Regardless of what kind of person Arbery was, that day in that instance, his death was the result of actions of another ultimately. Travis should pay some consequences for his actions. Dad should probably put himself under house arrest for getting his son involved in it.   

[chaos]

I don't think we can say Travis was standing at the drivers side. What we do know from the video is Travis exited the vehicle and was by the drivers door. In the next instance we see him being driven back now in front of the truck on the drivers side. You can tell from the video when they were engaged, McMichaels was no longer at the door. So yes, I base it on the fact he moved...

Here's what I think. Aerbury wasn't a saint. I don't think he stole anything from that site. Regardless of what kind of person Arbery was, that day in that instance, his death was the result of actions of another ultimately. Travis should pay some consequences for his actions. Dad should probably put himself under house arrest for getting his son involved in it.   

If you play the video in .25 speed, you can clearly see that guy doesn't go in front of the truck, he stays in line with the door at the front, he doesn't cross the truck to engage. The guy running, cuts a sharp left and engages, the guy with the gun steps backwards and the struggle starts. All fuckery for sure, but it's not like they chased this guy down, captured him and then held him down and shot him. The question that will set them free, I believe will be simply, what if that guy hadn't run across the front of the truck and attacked the guy holding the gun? Can a prosecutor prove an intent to kill? Having a gun on you doesn't mean you're going to kill someone. Can a defender prove self defense? Did that guy with the gun have a reasonable fear that the other guy was going to take his gun and cause him harm?

Slow that video down and watch frame by frame, then tell me what you think?

[Agnostic007]

If you play the video in .25 speed, you can clearly see that guy doesn't go in front of the truck, he stays in line with the door at the front, he doesn't cross the truck to engage. The guy running, cuts a sharp left and engages, the guy with the gun steps backwards and the struggle starts. All fuckery for sure, but it's not like they chased this guy down, captured him and then held him down and shot him. The question that will set them free, I believe will be simply, what if that guy hadn't run across the front of the truck and attacked the guy holding the gun? Can a prosecutor prove an intent to kill? Having a gun on you doesn't mean you're going to kill someone. Can a defender prove self defense? Did that guy with the gun have a reasonable fear that the other guy was going to take his gun and cause him harm?

Slow that video down and watch frame by frame, then tell me what you think?

I picked up something new to me. Right before the video cuts away Arbery appears to be intending to run past on the drivers side, Travis appears to have backed away from the truck, it seems to me as if to cut him off, and then Arbery cuts right to the passenger side. The video pulls away at the very second he is making the cut. When it picks up it appears to me that Travis had left the last spot seen in which was about 7 ft away from the truck to now being at the drivers side front of the truck. One leg looks like it is actually in front of the truck as he is being pushed back by Arbery. Looks to me like Arbery had intended to run past on the drivers side, saw Travis move to intercept, darted around the passenger side, as he was coming to front passenger side saw Travis closing the distance and moved to engage him

Check it out let me know what you think. You're right, the video is shi

[pellius]

I picked up something new to me. Right before the video cuts away Arbery appears to be intending to run past on the drivers side, Travis appears to have backed away from the truck, it seems to me as if to cut him off, and then Arbery cuts right to the passenger side. The video pulls away at the very second he is making the cut. When it picks up it appears to me that Travis had left the last spot seen in which was about 7 ft away from the truck to now being at the drivers side front of the truck. One leg looks like it is actually in front of the truck as he is being pushed back by Arbery. Looks to me like Arbery had intended to run past on the drivers side, saw Travis move to intercept, darted around the passenger side, as he was coming to front passenger side saw Travis closing the distance and moved to engage him

Check it out let me know what you think. You're right, the video is shi

That's pretty much how I saw it. Ahmaud ran to the passenger side to avoid a confrontation with the guy waiting for him on the driver's side. He ran around to the passenger's side to confront Ahmaud. Those guys in the truck were looking for a confrontation. They initiated the incident. They were there waiting for him armed with shotguns. Ahmaud was not committing any crime at the time of the incident.

[oldtimer1]

That's pretty much how I saw it. Ahmaud ran to the passenger side to avoid a confrontation with the guy waiting for him on the driver's side. He ran around to the passenger's side to confront Ahmaud. Those guys in the truck were looking for a confrontation. They initiated the incident. They were there waiting for him armed with shotguns. Ahmaud was not committing any crime at the time of the incident.

Couple of points.

1. If he didn't have permission to be in that house under construction he was trespassing. Doesn't matter that others have done the same.

2. He ran after he was confronted for being in the building. Was he jogging?

3. They can legally carry weapons in that state

4. A civilian can make a civilian arrest for a felony holding a person for the cops.

5. The father was a retired cop who knew the guy from a previous weapons charge. 

6. He grabbed the shotgun. In light of the previous weapons charge after fighting for the guy's gun was he justified in shooting him or should he have surrendered his legally carried  weapon to him?


Personally I would have called the cops and have never gone to look for the guy. 

[chaos]

I picked up something new to me. Right before the video cuts away Arbery appears to be intending to run past on the drivers side, Travis appears to have backed away from the truck, it seems to me as if to cut him off, and then Arbery cuts right to the passenger side. The video pulls away at the very second he is making the cut. When it picks up it appears to me that Travis had left the last spot seen in which was about 7 ft away from the truck to now being at the drivers side front of the truck. One leg looks like it is actually in front of the truck as he is being pushed back by Arbery. Looks to me like Arbery had intended to run past on the drivers side, saw Travis move to intercept, darted around the passenger side, as he was coming to front passenger side saw Travis closing the distance and moved to engage him

Check it out let me know what you think. You're right, the video is shi

This absolutely will be the point of debate. Some will see it as Travis trying to cut him off and engage and some will see it as Arbery going out of his way to engage. If Arbery had continued to run, what would have happened? The defense will say if he didn't run towards Travis, nothing would have happened. Of course we all "know" these guys were out looking for trouble but that has to be proven in court.

Couple of points.

1. If he didn't have permission to be in that house under construction he was trespassing. Doesn't matter that others have done the same.

2. He ran after he was confronted for being in the building. Was he jogging?

3. They can legally carry weapons in that state

4. A civilian can make a civilian arrest for a felony holding a person for the cops.

5. The father was a retired cop who knew the guy from a previous weapons charge. 

6. He grabbed the shotgun. In light of the previous weapons charge after fighting for the guy's gun was he justified in shooting him or should he have surrendered his legally carried  weapon to him?


Personally I would have called the cops and have never gone to look for the guy. 

#5 & 6 will be heavily relied on in the defenses case.

[chaos]

That's pretty much how I saw it. Ahmaud ran to the passenger side to avoid a confrontation with the guy waiting for him on the driver's side. He ran around to the passenger's side to confront Ahmaud. Those guys in the truck were looking for a confrontation. They initiated the incident. They were there waiting for him armed with shotguns. Ahmaud was not committing any crime at the time of the incident.

No he didn't. You can clearly see in the slowed down video, Travis is at the front of the truck on the drivers side, maybe with one leg in front of the truck. Arbery crosses the entire truck from the passenger side, to the drivers side to engage the guy with the gun.

[Thin Lizzy]

The speculation from the property owner was that he was accessing a water source. Additional video tends to indicate he was drinking from a spigot near the dock. The property owner had no concerns about the visits and was apparently aware of them from seeing them on his surveillance video. He wasn't the only one seen on video exploring the property. The killer will have to base his entire defense on the 10 seconds or so of the struggle and that will be a tough row to hoe given the circumstances that created that scenario

Agnostic, do you still believe the owner wasn’t concerned about trespassers?



https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/texts-reveal-police-enlisted-help-suspect-arberys-death-months-before-shooting/TO367WP3HVAYHC2MHABCT2EL2Y/


BRUNSWICK, Ga. — Channel 2 Action Newshas learned that police in south Georgia enlisted help from one of the suspects accused of murdering Ahmaud Arbery to keep an eye on a construction site the homeowner reported trespassers on.


Channel 2′s Tony Thomas obtained text messages sent by a Glynn County police officer to Larry English, who owned the construction site where Arbery appeared on surveillance video before he was shot and killed.


The texts instructed English, who lives two hours away from the property, to call Gregory McMichael if any issues came up with people caught trespassing.

“Greg is retired law enforcement and also a retired investigator from the DA’s office,” was the message Officer Robert Rash texted to English on Dec. 20, 2019. Rush also included McMichael’s phone number and conveyed the message that McMichael "said please call him day or night when you get action on your camera.”

[gmflex]

Regardless of Arbery past .
It won't matter.. Those 2 idiot's will be spending a long time in prison..
The guy wasn't committing a crime while out jogging, walking What ever you want to call it..
This 2 idiot's should of stayed home and let police handle it.. Now they will be set as an example and will get convicted / go to prison.. Case closed...

[keanu]

Regardless of Arbery past .
It won't matter.. Those 2 idiot's will be spending a long time in prison..
The guy wasn't committing a crime while out jogging, walking What ever you want to call it..
This 2 idiot's should of stayed home and let police handle it.. Now they will be set as an example and will get convicted / go to prison.. Case closed...

 I agree with your post. If Arbery intended to commit a crime would he not have done it in the middle of the night instead of a bright sunny day?

[keanu]

Agnostic, do you still believe the owner wasn’t concerned about trespassers?



https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/texts-reveal-police-enlisted-help-suspect-arberys-death-months-before-shooting/TO367WP3HVAYHC2MHABCT2EL2Y/


BRUNSWICK, Ga. — Channel 2 Action Newshas learned that police in south Georgia enlisted help from one of the suspects accused of murdering Ahmaud Arbery to keep an eye on a construction site the homeowner reported trespassers on.


Channel 2′s Tony Thomas obtained text messages sent by a Glynn County police officer to Larry English, who owned the construction site where Arbery appeared on surveillance video before he was shot and killed.


The texts instructed English, who lives two hours away from the property, to call Gregory McMichael if any issues came up with people caught trespassing.

“Greg is retired law enforcement and also a retired investigator from the DA’s office,” was the message Officer Robert Rash texted to English on Dec. 20, 2019. Rush also included McMichael’s phone number and conveyed the message that McMichael "said please call him day or night when you get action on your camera.”

The homeowner Larry English wants nothing to do with the McMichael duo.

[keanu]

Wrong is wrong - i just don’t understand why we NEVER see news about black men killing whites? Is that somehow less wrong? If a white killing a black is a hate crime is not the reverse also a hate crime?
Recently a black woman was turned away from a store for refusing to wear a mask - and while I think that is fckn stupid - she went home and had her husband and son go back to the store to murder the man who stopped her. It was reported but dropped immediately. Was that less wrong than this case?

Sure blacks kill whites. Blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crime in the U.S. Much of it is black on black. They also tend to get the book thrown at them by law enforcement.

[The Scott]

Sure blacks kill whites. Blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crime in the U.S. Much of it is black on black. They also tend to get the book thrown at them by law enforcement.

As for what happened to this young man, I do not know the entire story but I am saddened by it.   I don't know him and I doubt he was a saint or sinner alone but like most of us, a bit of both.

[Thin Lizzy]

The lib media have backed themselves into a corner with the idiotic jogging narrative. Pray tell who was that young man?


https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/suspect-arbery-shooting-had-offered-help-police/gFMpkRpX0Zk5edjvXrE6sN/


The property, owned by Larry English, had a motion-activated camera system that had picked up unknown people going onto the site, including a young man who started entering at night in late October.

[keanu]

The lib media have backed themselves into a corner with the idiotic jogging narrative. Pray tell who was that young man?


https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/suspect-arbery-shooting-had-offered-help-police/gFMpkRpX0Zk5edjvXrE6sN/


The property, owned by Larry English, had a motion-activated camera system that had picked up unknown people going onto the site, including a young man who started entering at night in late October.

Larry English stated Arbery wasn't the young man who was entering at night. Arbery is no angel but clearly he wouldn't commit a crime in the middle of a bright, Sunday when everyone is home.

[Thin Lizzy]

Larry English stated Arbery wasn't the young man who was entering at night. Arbery is no angel but clearly he wouldn't commit a crime in the middle of a bright, Sunday when everyone is home.

Please, he had a criminal record and probation violations. Why would he risk a trespassing charge for no particular reason? Either he was a criminal, a fucking idiot or both. I’d go with the latter.

You seem to know all about him. What was he doing since his HS graduation in 2012?

Why haven’t we heard from past employers or coworkers telling us what a wonderful guy he was?  My guess is that there are none.