The New Low Carb Trend

[loco]

Fitzgerald actually traveled the world studying the eating habits of top athletes and came to the conclusion that they all ate carbs there were no exceptions. I don’t understand what it is with keto guys. It becomes a religion to you. It’s just fucking eating.

The Endurance Diet: Discover the 5 Core Habits of the World's Greatest Athletes to Look, Feel, and Perform Better by Matt Fitzgerald - Books on Google Play

https://play.google.com/store/books/details/The_Endurance_Diet_Discover_the_5_Core_Habits_of_t?id=5yvXCwAAQBAJ&hl=en_US

This is the staple of the greatest marathoner of all time. But I’m sure he would be faster if  he were to only go keto.

https://www.sweatelite.co/eliud-kipchoge-diet/

Ugali: made from maize meal, it is cooked in water to form a sort of corn cake. This staple is very high in starch and is very bland, lacking much in the way of flavour. Many meals in the farm-stay were served with an almost insurmountable pile of ugali on the side.

Keto is not a religion to me, but I'm more than happy to chime in when I see people posting the same misinformation I myself believed for many years.

Nobody is debating that high carb consumption gives athletes the energy they need to successfully train and compete.

What has in recent years been surfacing are a couple facts:

1. High carb consumption among athletes is great for performance, but not great for their health and longevity.

2. After a period of adaptation, high fat low carb consumption among athletes provides the same level of energy, and in some athletes it actually gives them an competitive edge.  All that without the long term side effects of years of daily high levels of blood glucose.

Watch the videos.  The first two are just trailers to the documentaries/studies.  You'll have to sign up for a free trial subscription to DietDoctor.com if you are interested in watching the whole thing.  You can cancel the subscription before the free trial ends.

The third video is about Pete Jacobs, an Australian professional triathlete competing primarily in long-distance, non-drafting triathlon events. He is the winner of the 2012 Ironman World Championship.  And he eats only meat.

The fourth video is a discussion between an MD and a PHD regarding studies on high salt consumption, its health benefits, and its performance benefits in athletes. 

[Mr Anabolic]

Keto is not a religion to me, but I'm more than happy to chime in when I see people posting the same misinformation I myself believed for many years.

Nobody is debating that high carb consumption gives athletes the energy they need to successfully train and compete.

What has in recent years been surfacing are a couple facts:

1. High carb consumption among athletes is great for performance, but not great for their health and longevity.

2. After a period of adaptation, high fat low carb consumption among athletes provides the same level of energy, and in some athletes it actually gives them an competitive edge.  All that without the long term side effects of years of daily high levels of blood glucose.

Watch the videos.  The first two are just trailers to the documentaries/studies.  You'll have to sign up for a free trial subscription to DietDoctor.com if you are interested in watching the whole thing.  You can cancel the subscription before the free trial ends.

The third video is a discussion between an MD and a PHD regarding studies on high salt consumption, its health benefits, and its performance benefits in athletes.

My grandfather and grandmother ate what ever they wanted... fruit, cake, muffins, danish and other carbs.  They were not fat either.  Gramps died at 95 and my grandmother is still alive at 101.  People are fat today mainly because of taking in too many calories and consuming HFCS.

I know you are trying to validate yourself here, but you're way too myopic.

[Al Doggity]

My grandfather and grandmother ate what ever they wanted... fruit, cake, muffins, danish and other carbs.  They were not fat either.  Gramps died at 95 and my grandmother is still alive at 101.  People are fat today mainly because of taking in too many calories and consuming HFCS.

I know you are trying to validate yourself here, but you're way too myopic.

Video in opening post shows an interesting correlation- 1977 is the year US weights started to skyrocket. It's also the year that the USDA put out the dietary recommendations to cut out dietary fat in exchange for carbs.

There were other things going on, so  the obesity epidemic can't be attributed entirely to that, but I definitely think there is a connection.

[loco]

My grandfather and grandmother ate what ever they wanted... fruit, cake, muffins, danish and other carbs.  They were not fat either.  Gramps died at 95 and my grandmother is still alive at 101.  People are fat today mainly because of taking in too many calories and consuming HFCS.

I know you are trying to validate yourself here, but you're way too myopic.

And I knew a couple of people who died well after their 90s, and they abused alcohol and cigarettes most of their life.  Does it follow that abusing alcohol and cigarettes will help you live a long, healthy life?

When westerners were told to consume less fat, less salt, less animal products, more carbs, and more seed oils, then obesity, insulin resistance, diabetes, leaky gut, fatty liver, fatty pancreas, autoimmune diseases, dementia, and many other conditions increased exponentially.

Just look around.  Who is being way too myopic?

[loco]

what's a normal day's diet?

been thinking of trying out carnivore for a few months. It makes it more palatable if you can have dairy like milk and cheese.

another thing that put me off was the people saying it had to be raw milk etc. It's too much of an inconvenience sourcing that kind of stuff.

Don't have to do raw milk, or grass fed beef, or any of that fancy, expensive stuff.

[joswift]

Point me to an actual athlete not some guru on the Internet. All the top distance runners are high carbs. There are no exceptions.

Anecdotal I know but I work with a guy who does distance running and always used to carb load prior to any 10k 20k runs he does

He was in a keto diet when someone asked him would he take part in a10k charity run, he ran it the next day without carbs and his time was the same, he felt no different at all

Now he just eats normally prior to his runs and doesn't carb load any more

[dave19]

When it comes to fat loss the most important thing is calorie intake. Both high carb and low carb diets work. Keto just sucks in my opinion because you are very limited when it comes to food choices.

I've tried both and right now I'm dieting with more carbs than usual and the fat loss is just as good but I'm not as depleted and flat and I can maintain my strength better and seem to hold more muscle this time.

[loco]

When it comes to fat loss the most important thing is calorie intake. Both high carb and low carb diets work. Keto just sucks in my opinion because you are very limited when it comes to food choices.

I've tried both and right now I'm dieting with more carbs than usual and the fat loss is just as good but I'm not as depleted and flat and I can maintain my strength better and seem to hold more muscle this time.

Good for you!

Personally, I am able to lose fat quicker on a low fat, high carb diet with lots of exercise.  However it's no fun, and it's difficult to keep the fat off.  As with any human being, after losing the fat it's hard not to gain it back with interest, and then harder to lose it again.

On a low carb diet, I can drop the same amount of fat with less exercise.  It does take longer, but it's easy, fun, and I can stay on the diet for a lifetime.  It's easier to keep the weight off and stay lean when you lose the fat slowly anyway, and it's easier to stay on a diet or certain life style when you actually enjoy it.

I personally don't feel like I'm limited when it comes to food choices on a low carb diet.  I just eat when I'm hungry, eat until I'm full, eat high fat/protein foods and low carb foods.  In my mind, no food is prohibited, as long as daily carbs stay low.

[Mr Anabolic]

And I knew a couple of people who died well after their 90s, and they abused alcohol and cigarettes most of their life.  Does it follow that abusing alcohol and cigarettes will help you live a long, healthy life?

When westerners were told to consume less fat, less salt, less animal products, more carbs, and more seed oils, then obesity, insulin resistance, diabetes, leaky gut, fatty liver, fatty pancreas, autoimmune diseases, dementia, and many other conditions increased exponentially.

Just look around.  Who is being way too myopic?

No, you're myopic and are suggesting that all carbs are evil.  Your comparison of people who drink and smoke their whole life is absurd.
 
The main reason people are overweight and unhealthy is because they eat too many calories and the foods they're consuming has low nutrient density.

I tried the no/low carb diet twice for 6 months each time.  I had no energy to perform intense workouts.  No pump either.   

The human body was designed to use/burn GLUCOSE for fuel not ketones. We have a pancreas that releases insulin for that reason.

You sure are dense.  You're spending LOTS of time with these posts trying to validate yourself.

[Mr Anabolic]

When it comes to fat loss the most important thing is calorie intake. Both high carb and low carb diets work. Keto just sucks in my opinion because you are very limited when it comes to food choices.

I've tried both and right now I'm dieting with more carbs than usual and the fat loss is just as good but I'm not as depleted and flat and I can maintain my strength better and seem to hold more muscle this time.

To Loco you're just a fluke - lol

[Mr Anabolic]

Good for you!

Personally, I am able to lose fat quicker on a low fat, high carb diet with lots of exercise.  However it's no fun, and it's difficult to keep the fat off.  As with any human being, after losing the fat it's hard not to gain it back with interest, and then harder to lose it again.

On a low carb diet, I can drop the same amount of fat with less exercise.  It does take longer, but it's easy, fun, and I can stay on the diet for a lifetime.  It's easier to keep the weight off and stay lean when you lose the fat slowly anyway, and it's easier to stay on a diet or certain life style when you actually enjoy it.

I personally don't feel like I'm limited when it comes to food choices on a low carb diet.  I just eat when I'm hungry, eat until I'm full, eat high fat/protein foods and low carb foods.  In my mind, no food is prohibited, as long as daily carbs stay low.

Of course you're limited on a low carb diet, VERY limited. 

But you're on here posting 100x trying to convince yourself and everyone else that you enjoy it... when you really don't.   Who would?

[loco]

No, you're myopic and are suggesting that all carbs are evil.  Your comparison of people who drink and smoke their whole life is absurd.
 
The main reason people are overweight and unhealthy is because they eat too many calories and the foods they're consuming has low nutrient density.

I tried the no/low carb diet twice for 6 months each time.  I had no energy to perform intense workouts.  No pump either.   

The human body was designed to use/burn GLUCOSE for fuel not ketones. We have a pancreas that releases insulin for that reason.

You sure are dense.  You're spending LOTS of time with these posts trying to validate yourself.

Please tell us when I said that carbs are evil?  And my comparison is no more absurd than you saying eating lots of carbs for a lifetime must be good just because it worked for your grandparents.

Got it, eating high fat low carb is bad because you tried it for six months and you didn't like it.  Good job!

Why does it bother you so much how much time I spend with these posts?  Is it to you like me telling a little kid that Santa isn't real?

And no, the human body wasn't designed to use/burn glucose for fuel instead of ketones.  Otherwise, people on the keto and carnivore diets would be dropping like flies.  Instead, they are thriving.  The human body can use either one and it may actually prefer ketones.

The lower limit of dietary carbohydrate compatible with life apparently is zero, provided that adequate amounts of protein and fat are consumed.
https://www.nap.edu/read/10490/chapter/8#275

Moreover, the heart has virtually no glycogen reserves. Fatty acids are the heart's main source of fuel, although ketone bodies as well as lactate can serve as fuel for heart muscle. In fact, heart muscle consumes acetoacetate in preference to glucose.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22436/

[Humble Narcissist]

We need Adonis (Sinoda) to come on here and explain how a calorie is just a calorie again.

[tom joad]

I've gone low carbs from time to time to help reach a short term goal, but who the hell would give up all those tasty carb dishes as a permanent lifestyle choice?

[Thin Lizzy]

It’s really an intensity issue. Fats provide energy for low to moderate intensity activities but when you get to about 2/3 of VO2MAX carbs start to take over. Once you’re at 80% it’s all carbs.

Of course you're limited on a low carb diet, VERY limited. 

But you're on here posting 100x trying to convince yourself and everyone else that you enjoy it... when you really don't.   Who would?

What about Keto Cookies?😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[loco]

It’s really an intensity issue. Fats provide energy for low to moderate intensity activities but when you get to about 2/3 of VO2MAX carbs start to take over. Once you’re at 80% it’s all carbs.

It's a very interesting subject in my opinion.  Take a look at those videos I posted, at least the first two.  I'd be interested in reading what you think.

[Thin Lizzy]

It's a very interesting subject in my opinion.  Take a look at those videos I posted, at least the first two.  I'd be interested in reading what you think.

I watched up until I saw Stephen Phinney.

His study is what a lot of these keto arguments are based upon. If you’re familiar with the study he had his athletes train at 65% VO2Max. That’s a joke.  A marathon is run at about 80%, a 5K 95%. He knew what would have happened had he sped up the pace.

[joswift]

the thing with the carnivore diet is it stops you from snacking between meals,. there are not many meat free snacks, some people keep cooked bacon in a bag to snack on, I just prefer to wait for a meal

my current diet is
4 bacon, 4 sausage and 2 fried eggs
large tub greek yoghurt
1 tub cottage cheese
4-6 beef burgers made from 85% mince beef and two egg yolks salt and pepper

I occasionally have lamb chops rib eye steaks or chicken, but very rarely chicken any more because I cant stand the dry texture of it after eating beef


its not a huge amount of food or calories but Im maintaining my weight at around 210 at around 10% BF

[loco]

I watched up until I saw Stephen Phinney.

His study is what a lot of these keto arguments are based upon. If you’re familiar with the study he had his athletes train at 65% VO2Max. That’s a joke.  A marathon is run at about 80%, a 5K 95%. He knew what would have happened had he sped up the pace.

Which keto arguments, regarding athletic performance?  He does appear a lot in Cereal Killers 2, but not in the first Cereal Killers.  In the first one it's all about Professor Tim Noakes.

Timothy David Noakes is a South African scientist, and an emeritus professor in the Division of Exercise Science and Sports Medicine at the University of Cape Town. He is also a member of the National Research Foundation (South Africa), who list him as one of their highest-rated members.

He has run more than 70 marathons and ultramarathons, and is the author of several books on exercise and diet. He is known for his work in sports science and for his support of a low-carbohydrate, high-fat (LCHF) diet, as set out in his books The Real Meal Revolution and Lore of Nutrition: Challenging Conventional Dietary Beliefs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Noakes

[Thin Lizzy]

Which keto arguments, regarding athletic performance?  He does appear a lot in Cereal Killers 2, but not in the first Cereal Killers.  In the first one it's all about Professor Tim Noakes.

Timothy David Noakes is a South African scientist, and an emeritus professor in the Division of Exercise Science and Sports Medicine at the University of Cape Town. He is also a member of the National Research Foundation (South Africa), who list him as one of their highest-rated members.

He has run more than 70 marathons and ultramarathons, and is the author of several books on exercise and diet. He is known for his work in sports science and for his support of a low-carbohydrate, high-fat (LCHF) diet, as set out in his books The Real Meal Revolution and Lore of Nutrition: Challenging Conventional Dietary Beliefs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Noakes

You’re not telling me anything I don’t know. Noakes ran all those races while on carbs. His opus book “Lore of Running” advocates carbs. He only went off carbs because he developed diabetes.

When leisurely walking becomes an Olympic event, that’s where you’ll see some keto athletes possibly succeed.

[loco]

You’re not telling me anything I don’t know. Noakes ran all those races while on carbs. His opus book “Lore of Running” advocates carbs. He only went off carbs because he developed diabetes.

When leisurely walking becomes an Olympic event, that’s where you’ll see some keto athletes possibly succeed.

Right, hence his research into how years of carb loading for training and competition is harmful to an athlete's health no matter the amount of exercise, and why he is now writing books and doing research on high fat low carb diets for high performance athletes.

[Grape Ape]

I've read about and follow plenty of people who avoid carbs altogether, and are performing at a high level.

Different things work for different folks.

[joswift]

I've read about and follow plenty of people who avoid carbs altogether, and are performing at a high level.

Different things work for different folks.

our ancestors managed on very few carbs

[Humble Narcissist]

our ancestors managed on very few carbs

They also made it without a balanced diet, a modern day invention.

[Thin Lizzy]

Right, hence his research into how years of carb loading for training and competition is harmful to an athlete's health no matter the amount of exercise, and why he is now writing books and doing research on high fat low carb diets for high performance athletes.

Why doesn’t he train a group of Keto warriors for distance running and put the Kenyans and Ethiopians out of business? Because he knows that diet wouldn’t work at that level.

Trotting out the Conga line of keto heroes doesn’t change the FACT that at the top of the distance running food chain all the athletes eat a lot of carbs.

Until the Keto warriors can back up their talk with performance (they can’t and won’t) it’s just talk.