Author Topic: The New Low Carb Trend  (Read 15933 times)

tom joad

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #100 on: May 15, 2020, 10:31:30 AM »
I know, right?  Some people here take this stuff way too seriously and make it personal.  Life's too short.

For me, life's too short to basically permanently cut out one of the macronutrients ... and pretty much never have a sandwich on fresh bread, pasta, pizza, potatoes, a dessert or ice cream etc.

Hypertrophy

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #101 on: May 15, 2020, 10:41:48 AM »
Here’s  your fucking scientist:

Low carbohydrate, high fat diet impairs exercise economy and negates the performance benefit from intensified training in elite race walkers

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5407976/

Very low carb absolutely kills sports performance. I did a very low carb diet one season prior to bicycle racing. Got lean as could be. Then I entered a race series in the Midwest and...lo and behold...got dropped every time the race pace shot up. Was dying to finish a lousy 20 mile race, lol.

The series lasted a week so on day 2 I went to the grocery store and bought every easily digestible carb there was. Two days later I got 3rd place in one of the races- a 30 mile race run at 27 mph.

A long slow effort aerobically, like riding 100 miles, can easily be done on very low carb. I did training rides like that. Pace was about 15 mph. Try doing that same distance at race pace- 25 mph+- in a pack and you will be dropped on the first acceleration. Aerobic sports are definitely high carb.

I'm currently dieting and dropped my daily intake to 2000 kcals. I'm losing about 1.5-2 pounds a week. My carbs are at 200-250 g a day.

Hypertrophy

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #102 on: May 15, 2020, 10:43:28 AM »
Very good come back argument.  Good job!

Thank you, but the longer I eat low carb, the less I crave sweets and starchy foods.

These days I'd much rather eat like this:







Strongly suggest you monitor the uric acid in your urine. It can supersaturate in the span of an hour- and you can get kidney stones. Speaking from experience.

joswift

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #103 on: May 15, 2020, 10:53:25 AM »
Strongly suggest you monitor the uric acid in your urine. It can supersaturate in the span of an hour- and you can get kidney stones. Speaking from experience.

A solution of potassium citrate taken throughout the day neutralises the acidity in your urine

I take 1 teaspoon per day in 2 litres of water, drink it with meals and between meals

Thin Lizzy

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #104 on: May 15, 2020, 10:53:36 AM »
Very low carb absolutely kills sports performance. I did a very low carb diet one season prior to bicycle racing. Got lean as could be. Then I entered a race series in the Midwest and...lo and behold...got dropped every time the race pace shot up. Was dying to finish a lousy 20 mile race, lol.

The series lasted a week so on day 2 I went to the grocery store and bought every easily digestible carb there was. Two days later I got 3rd place in one of the races- a 30 mile race run at 27 mph.

A long slow effort aerobically, like riding 100 miles, can easily be done on very low carb. I did training rides like that. Pace was about 15 mph. Try doing that same distance at race pace- 25 mph+- in a pack and you will be dropped on the first acceleration. Aerobic sports are definitely high carb.

I'm currently dieting and dropped my daily intake to 2000 kcals. I'm losing about 1.5-2 pounds a week. My carbs are at 200-250 g a day.

When you get deep into the weeds of the biochemistry of energy systems it becomes incredibly complex but the basic concept is very simple. The body uses fats for low to moderate intensity activity and carbs for high intensity.

The reason you got dropped on low carbs is because you didn’t have a high gear.

Hypertrophy

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #105 on: May 15, 2020, 11:02:23 AM »
A solution of potassium citrate taken throughout the day neutralises the acidity in your urine

I take 1 teaspoon per day in 2 litres of water, drink it with meals and between meals

Correct. Added this after my kidney stone debacle. It drives the pH up to prevent crystallization of uric acid.

joswift

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #106 on: May 15, 2020, 11:04:11 AM »
Correct. Added this after my kidney stone debacle. It drives the pH up to prevent crystallization of uric acid.
yep, also softens kidney stones as well, helped break down my stones after being advised two surgeries or 15-20 lithotripsy treatments

Stones totally cleared in 6 treatments

loco

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #107 on: May 15, 2020, 11:05:51 AM »
For me, life's too short to basically permanently cut out one of the macronutrients ... and pretty much never have a sandwich on fresh bread, pasta, pizza, potatoes, a dessert or ice cream etc.

The low carb diet and the keto diet don't cut out any of the macronutrients. 

Hypertrophy

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #108 on: May 15, 2020, 11:06:04 AM »
When you get deep into the weeds of the biochemistry of energy systems it becomes incredibly complex but the basic concept is very simple. The body uses fats for low to moderate intensity activity and carbs for high intensity.

The reason you got dropped on low carbs is because you didn’t have a high gear.

I had hardly any carbs in my quads so yes- I was running on empty. 48 hours later I was on a full tank. We used to carbo load years ago by doing a 3 day low carb depletion cycle followed by three days of high carb. It worked like a charm but really was a pain in the ass to implement with our training routines. You also screw up your hydration badly so in warm climates it's not worth it.

Hypertrophy

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #109 on: May 15, 2020, 11:12:33 AM »
yep, also softens kidney stones as well, helped break down my stones after being advised two surgeries or 15-20 lithotripsy treatments

Stones totally cleared in 6 treatments

I ended up having lithotripsy because both kidneys were shutting down. It came on literally in 24 hours. I don't want to repeat the experience. The lithotripsy itself was painless but the catheter I was forced to have in place for a week was pure fucking hell.

Afterwards we did a 24 urine collection test and the uric levels were maxed out. The urologist said to go on Potassium Citrate and to lower the protein in my diet. Sure enough the levels dropped in just a few days and zero complications since. By the way the urologist asked if I was on keto . He said he is seeing an increasing incidence of people with uric acid kidney stones because of the diet.

tom joad

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #110 on: May 15, 2020, 11:27:18 AM »
The low carb diet and the keto diet don't cut out any of the macronutrients.

so stringently restricting oneself to just 20-50g of Carbs per day...forever...is not basically permanently cutting out one of the macronutrients?

loco

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #111 on: May 15, 2020, 11:39:20 AM »
so stringently restricting oneself to just 20-50g of Carbs per day...forever...is not basically permanently cutting out one of the macronutrients?

No.  You are still eating 20g-50g carbs.  So you are not cutting any of the macronutrients.

There's a reason they are called "low carb" and not "no carb."

AbrahamG

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #112 on: May 15, 2020, 11:43:00 AM »
5 pages of dribble. After all,

"A calorie is a calorie"
-True Anus

loco

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #113 on: May 15, 2020, 11:46:57 AM »
Strongly suggest you monitor the uric acid in your urine. It can supersaturate in the span of an hour- and you can get kidney stones. Speaking from experience.

Thanks Hypertrophy!

That seems to be a problem in only 5% of all children treated with the keto diet for epilepsy.  The culprit seems to be dehydration, which is common on low carb diets.

I was well aware of the risk of dehydration on low carb diets and was well prepared.  I just drink a lot of water with Redmond Real Salt sprinkled in it.  Never had any problems with dehydration, cramping, or the so called "keto flu", which many experience when first starting the keto diet because they don't know to drink more water and add a good salt too.

Hypertrophy

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #114 on: May 15, 2020, 12:31:36 PM »
Thanks Hypertrophy!

That seems to be a problem in only 5% of all children treated with the keto diet for epilepsy.  The culprit seems to be dehydration, which is common on low carb diets.

I was well aware of the risk of dehydration on low carb diets and was well prepared.  I just drink a lot of water with Redmond Real Salt sprinkled in it.  Never had any problems with dehydration, cramping, or the so called "keto flu", which many experience when first starting the keto diet because they don't know to drink more water and add a good salt too.

You're welcome! Like joswift wrote above, take Potassium Citrate capsules a few times a day. It's very cheap and will make urine more basic- a key to preventing uric acid stones.

I was a huge fan of keto until the stones hit. It wasn't once, btw. Every single time I went on keto a kidney stone formed - and most passed without problem - although they are excruciatingly painful. My body chemistry apparently creates acidic urine naturally so I was very susceptible. Anyways once I lowered protein to no more than 100 g a day the stones stopped.

Just for the record, I am 5'9" tall and weigh 180-185 lean, 205-210 as a fatty. I have noticed zero difference by lowering my protein intake to 100g max a day and I feel 100% better.

joswift

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #115 on: May 15, 2020, 02:25:24 PM »
essential amino acids = check
Essential fats = check
Essential carbs= ....?

joswift

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #116 on: May 15, 2020, 02:29:14 PM »
I ended up having lithotripsy because both kidneys were shutting down. It came on literally in 24 hours. I don't want to repeat the experience. The lithotripsy itself was painless but the catheter I was forced to have in place for a week was pure fucking hell.

Afterwards we did a 24 urine collection test and the uric levels were maxed out. The urologist said to go on Potassium Citrate and to lower the protein in my diet. Sure enough the levels dropped in just a few days and zero complications since. By the way the urologist asked if I was on keto . He said he is seeing an increasing incidence of people with uric acid kidney stones because of the diet.

I almost died in march last year due to a ruptured artery during kidney stone surgery, was in hospital for 18 days,

I produce oxalate stones, hence the carnivore diet now meat and dairy are the lowest oxalate foods although all food s contain traces, Oxalates are fucking poison, Google "Oxalate dumping"

kreator

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #117 on: May 16, 2020, 12:15:08 AM »
I almost died in march last year due to a ruptured artery during kidney stone surgery, was in hospital for 18 days,

I produce oxalate stones, hence the carnivore diet now meat and dairy are the lowest oxalate foods although all food s contain traces, Oxalates are fucking poison, Google "Oxalate dumping"

yes, plants contain antinutrients that can mess with our system in some way. From inhibiting mineral absorption to damaging our DNA, plants have developed their own defense sytems against their predators.

Flexacon

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #118 on: May 16, 2020, 02:12:18 AM »
I'm sure there's lots of good info and back and forth in this thread, but let's stop making excuses for fat people. Bottom line it's on them.

kreator

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #119 on: May 16, 2020, 03:36:59 AM »
The metabolic health generally improves on both high carb/low fat and high fat/low carb diets considering one has switched from the standard western diet which is high fat/high carb (mostly vegetable oils and refined carbs).
When higher levels og glucose and fat are present in the body it seems that both kind of block each other out from getting used as fuel as suggested by Phillip Randle (the Randle cycle).
Not sure if this is only happening when a surplus of calories form fat and carbs are consumed through a longer period or it's also valid if one is in a deficit and also consuming both macros in higher amounts in the same meal.

That's why I'd never bulk on both macros in high amounts. You get insulin resistant way sooner and you'll be gaining more fat instead of muscle.

Al Doggity

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #120 on: May 16, 2020, 06:31:27 AM »
When you get deep into the weeds of the biochemistry of energy systems it becomes incredibly complex but the basic concept is very simple. The body uses fats for low to moderate intensity activity and carbs for high intensity.

The reason you got dropped on low carbs is because you didn’t have a high gear.

Alright, I'm not even arguing with you here, I'm asking you a genuine question if you care to discuss and keep your cool.  Have you read the bolded in scientific literature? I googled, wasn't able to find this on  anything other than pop-up guru type sites.

Thin Lizzy

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #121 on: May 16, 2020, 07:06:49 AM »
Alright, I'm not even arguing with you here, I'm asking you a genuine question if you care to discuss and keep your cool.  Have you read the bolded in scientific literature? I googled, wasn't able to find this on  anything other than pop-up guru type sites.

I posted a link to this which is considered a seminal paper on the subject. Here’s some more detail. The physiological reason for this is that it takes more chemical reactions to break down fats as opposed to carbs. So, if you need a large amount of energy fast, carbs will be the preferred fuel source. It’s not a carbs vs fats issue. They both have a use but the idea that taking carbs out of the equation will improve performance makes no sense in theory and has been borne out in practice. There are no keto athletes at the highest level of endurance or high intensity sport:



https://journals.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/jappl.1994.76.6.2253


The “crossover” concept represents a theoretical means by which one can understand the effects of exercise intensity and prior endurance training on the balance of carbohydrate (CHO) and lipid metabolism during sustained exercise. According to the crossover concept, endurance training results in muscular biochemical adaptations that enhance lipid oxidation as well as decrease the sympathetic nervous system responses to given submaximal exercise stresses. These adaptations promote lipid oxidation during mild- to moderate-intensity exercise. In contrast, increases in exercise intensity are conceived to increase contraction-induced muscle glycogenolysis, alter the pattern of fiber type recruitment, and increase sympathetic nervous system activity. Therefore the pattern of substrate utilization in an individual at any point in time depends on the interaction between exercise intensity-induced responses (which increase CHO utilization) and endurance training-induced responses (which promote lipid oxidation). The crossover point is the power output at which energy from CHO-derived fuels predominates over energy from lipids,



friedchickendinner

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #122 on: May 16, 2020, 11:28:44 AM »
Vinny - the keto guido from Jersey Shore

This is the best version of him, dieting down to become a stripper in Chippendales

Everybody now hates him, think he's boring, he can't eat, don't drink. Just miserable all the time.



The Situation - just got released from prison after 8 months


loco

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #123 on: May 18, 2020, 10:36:31 AM »
You're welcome! Like joswift wrote above, take Potassium Citrate capsules a few times a day. It's very cheap and will make urine more basic- a key to preventing uric acid stones.

I was a huge fan of keto until the stones hit. It wasn't once, btw. Every single time I went on keto a kidney stone formed - and most passed without problem - although they are excruciatingly painful. My body chemistry apparently creates acidic urine naturally so I was very susceptible. Anyways once I lowered protein to no more than 100 g a day the stones stopped.

Just for the record, I am 5'9" tall and weigh 180-185 lean, 205-210 as a fatty. I have noticed zero difference by lowering my protein intake to 100g max a day and I feel 100% better.

So the cause of your kidney stones was consuming more than 100g protein per day, regardless of how many carbs you consumed?

loco

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Re: The New Low Carb Trend
« Reply #124 on: May 18, 2020, 11:34:46 AM »
Very low carb absolutely kills sports performance. I did a very low carb diet one season prior to bicycle racing. Got lean as could be. Then I entered a race series in the Midwest and...lo and behold...got dropped every time the race pace shot up. Was dying to finish a lousy 20 mile race, lol.

The series lasted a week so on day 2 I went to the grocery store and bought every easily digestible carb there was. Two days later I got 3rd place in one of the races- a 30 mile race run at 27 mph.

A long slow effort aerobically, like riding 100 miles, can easily be done on very low carb. I did training rides like that. Pace was about 15 mph. Try doing that same distance at race pace- 25 mph+- in a pack and you will be dropped on the first acceleration. Aerobic sports are definitely high carb.

I'm currently dieting and dropped my daily intake to 2000 kcals. I'm losing about 1.5-2 pounds a week. My carbs are at 200-250 g a day.

Maybe, maybe not.  The jury is still out.

Impact Of Ketogenic Diet On Athletes: Current Insights

2019 Nov 15

Whether nutritional ketosis yields any tangible performance benefits to athletes is a contentious subject within nutrition science. This academic debate has brought about several investigations in an array of athletes, including endurance athletes, resistance-trained athletes, and CrossFit trainees.

The impact of a ketogenic diet (KD) (<50 g/d carbohydrate, >75% fat) on athletic performance has sparked much interest and self-experimentation in the past 3–4 years. Evidence shows 3–4-week adaptations to a KD in endurance-trained athletes were associated with maintenance of moderate (46–63% VO2max) and vigorous intensity (64–90% VO2max) endurance exercise, while at intensities >70% VO2max, increases in fat oxidation were associated with decreased economy (increased oxygen consumption), and in some cases, increased ratings of perceived exertion and heart rate. Two investigations in recreationally active endurance athletes noted no vigorous intensity exercise decrement following 3- and 12-week adaptations. Moderate (70–85% one repetition maximum) and near-maximal to maximal intensity (>85% 1RM) strength performance experienced no decrement following a 3-12-week KD adaptation. Beneficial effects were noted for 2000 m sprint and critical power test completed for short duration at vigorous intensity, while two additional tests noted no decrement. For sprint, near-maximal exercise (>91% VO2max), benefit of the KD was observed for six-second sprint, while no decrement in performance was noted for two additional maximal tests. When protein is equated (grams per kilogram), one investigation noted no decrement in muscle hypertrophy, while one noted a decrement. One investigation with matched protein noted the KD group lost more body fat. In conclusion, moderate-to-vigorous intensity exercise experiences no decrement following adaptation to a KD. Decreases in exercise economy are observed >70% VO2max in trained endurance athletes which may negate performance within field settings. Beneficial effects of the KD during short duration vigorous, and sprint bouts of exercises are often confounded by greater weight loss in the KD group. With more athletes pursuing carbohydrate-restricted diets (moderate and strict (KD)) for their proposed health benefits, more work is needed in the area to address both performance and health outcomes.

Short-Duration Vigorous Intensity (64–90% VO2max, >30 s)
Evidence suggests no decrement to short-duration vigorous-intensity exercise following 3–12 weeks of a KD within trained and recreationally trained athletes. Findings are contrary to sports nutrition guidelines, which recommend carbohydrate availability to enable vigorous performance.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6863116/