It’s time to start fighting back.... in Los Angeles County

[OneMoreRep]

Covid is being added to every persons death certificate.

But do you have credible evidence for this from a reliable source? Evidence to suggest that covid-19 was being added to every person's death certificate, regardless of covid-19 being involved in the death or not? Evidence that clearly suggests that the cause of death was covid-19 that they were suffering from versus some other underlying condition?

"1"

[OneMoreRep]

2 things..

Another point is the numbers are faked. Hospitals receive 12K a patient from medicare for Covid. Strong reason to say they died from Covid.

Destroying the economy is clearly for political ambition. Trump had the greatest economy in 50 years and it was improving.

So you are implying that hospitals throughout the USA are all in on a scam to rip off the US government by faking the number of deaths that are reported as covid-19 deaths in order to squeeze out money from the US government? Literally, the hospitals are frankly lying and fraudulently reporting deaths as covid-19 related in order to steal funding from the government? Those are very big claims my friend. Do you have actual proof that this is in fact happening throughout major hospitals in the USA?

Second, destroying the economy and doing it for political ambition? Why would any Governor want to purposely destroy its state economy? We've seen what occurs in places like Detroit, Michigan and it's a barren Wasteland, we're people in severe poverty have resorted to violent crimes in order to survive. Governors that do this to their states end up losing elections and furthermore get removed. None of this is attributable to Trump, as he does not have the right to close any states, as those states can only be closed by the governors. Maybe I'm just not getting why anyone would assume that destroying the economy would lead to any sort of self-fulfilling political ambition. It doesn't help anyone on either sides of Capitol Hill.

Help me understand a little bit regarding the key points I mentioned above in order for me to see where your thought process is going with this. I genuinely just want to know as I am not completely understanding the thought process behind it, but I am certainly interested.

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[Mr Anabolic]

2 things..

So you are implying that hospitals throughout the USA are all in on a scam to rip off the US government by faking the number of deaths that are reported as covid-19 deaths in order to squeeze out money from the US government? Literally, the hospitals are frankly lying and fraudulently reporting deaths as covid-19 related in order to steal funding from the government? Those are very big claims my friend. Do you have actual proof that this is in fact happening throughout major hospitals in the USA?

Second, destroying the economy and doing it for political ambition? Why would any Governor want to purposely destroy its state economy? We've seen what occurs in places like Detroit, Michigan and it's a barren Wasteland, we're people in severe poverty have resorted to violent crimes in order to survive. Governors that do this to their states end up losing elections and furthermore get removed. None of this is attributable to Trump, as he does not have the right to close any states, as those states can only be closed by the governors. Maybe I'm just not getting why anyone would assume that destroying the economy would lead to any sort of self-fulfilling political ambition. It doesn't help anyone on either sides of Capitol Hill.

Help me understand a little bit regarding the key points I mentioned above in order for me to see where your thought process is going with this. I genuinely just want to know as I am not completely understanding the thought process behind it, but I am certainly interested.

"1"

Have a friend who is an RN in a big hospital downtown.  He told me the same thing... almost all the dead bodies are being toe-tagged as Covid. 

You seem a bit naive.  Hospitals are in business to make money.  They don't really care if people die as long as they get paid.

[gib]

Fuck this lock down! It’s time for Americans to fight back!

[joswift]

But do you have credible evidence for this from a reliable source? Evidence to suggest that covid-19 was being added to every person's death certificate, regardless of covid-19 being involved in the death or not? Evidence that clearly suggests that the cause of death was covid-19 that they were suffering from versus some other underlying condition?

"1"

Here is the government guidance for establishing cause of death in the UK
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3IYRlsKFpzHj4EW7G59fDVm3o_uYOsToQch6nuYNnIh4GMaFnirRfzJT8

HERE IS THE RELEVANT SECTION
For example, if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID- 19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it becomes available. In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement.

[OneMoreRep]

Have a friend who is an RN in a big hospital downtown.  He told me the same thing... almost all the dead bodies are being toe-tagged as Covid. 

You seem a bit naive.  Hospitals are in business to make money.  They don't really care if people die as long as they get paid.

Sounds credible. Everyone has a friend on the inside and hospital's are a business that don't care if people die, as long as they make money.

I guess, I am naive. But yet no one has been able to post or provide a credible source short of hearsay or rumors.

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[joswift]

Sounds credible. Everyone has a friend on the inside and hospital's are a business that don't care if people die, as long as they make money.

I guess, I am naive. But yet no one has been able to post or provide a credible source short of hearsay or rumors.

"1"

listen to this...

[oldtimer1]

How did this thing become a Democrat vs Republican issue? I will answer, since Democrats weaponized this disease to hurt Trump's chance of reelection. 



Can't open till we flatten the curve.

Can't open until we know the hospitals won't be over run. Admissions to intensive care is down.

Can't open till we have a vaccine.

Can't open till we have multiple vaccines for the multiple strains that are coming.

Can't open till we have a cure.

Can't open till Biden wins the White House and both sides of Congress.

[OneMoreRep]

Here is the government guidance for establishing cause of death in the UK
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3IYRlsKFpzHj4EW7G59fDVm3o_uYOsToQch6nuYNnIh4GMaFnirRfzJT8

HERE IS THE RELEVANT SECTION
For example, if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID- 19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it becomes available. In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement.

I took a look at that on page 3/17 and it read like this:

3. Referring deaths to the coroner 
 
• Covid-19 is an acceptable direct or underlying cause of death for the purposes of completing the Medical Certificate of Cause of Death

• Covid-19 is not a reason on its own to refer a death to a coroner under the Coroners and Justice Act 2009. 

• That Covid-19 is a notifiable disease under the Health Protection (Notification) Regulations 2010 does not mean referral to a coroner is required by virtue of its notifiable status. 

Medical practitioners are required to certify causes of death “to the best of their knowledge and belief”. Without diagnostic proof, if appropriate and to avoid delay, medical practitioners can circle ‘2’ in the MCCD (“information from post-mortem may be available later”) or tick Box B on the reverse of the MCCD for ante-mortem investigations. For example, if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID-19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it becomes available.  In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement.

In short, what I gathered from that is that you can use covid-19 as an acceptable direct or underlying cause of death for the purpose of filling out the certificate of death. It didn't suggest that covid-19 can be or is being added as a diagnosis/cause of death to everyone's death certificate.

Moreover, it stated that if someone had all the typical symptoms of covid-19 infection but if test results had not been received it would be satisfactory to give covid-19 as a cause of death AND then share the test result when it becomes available. Common things being common, it is fair to attribute the disease process to a patient's death when all the symptoms line up according to what the disease typically presents as, especially when you do not have a test result on hand at the time of death. Now my question is, does the totality of covid-19 deaths get updated once the test results do in fact come back and reflect that it was either directly or not even caused by covid-19?

"1"

[Twaddle]

Sounds credible. Everyone has a friend on the inside and hospital's are a business that don't care if people die, as long as they make money.

I guess, I am naive. But yet no one has been able to post or provide a credible source short of hearsay or rumors.

"1"

[joswift]

I took a look at that on page 3/17 and it read like this:

In short, what I gathered from that is that you can use covid-19 as an acceptable direct or underlying cause of death for the purpose of filling out the certificate of death. It didn't suggest that covid-19 can be or is being added as a diagnosis/cause of death to everyone's death certificate.

Moreover, it stated that if someone had all the typical symptoms of covid-19 infection but if test results had not been received it would be satisfactory to give covid-19 as a cause of death AND then share the test result when it becomes available. Common things being common, it is fair to attribute the disease process to a patient's death when all the symptoms line up according to what the disease typically presents as, especially when you do not have a test result on hand at the time of death. Now my question is, does the totality of covid-19 deaths get updated once the test results do in fact come back and reflect that it was either directly or not even caused by covid-19?

"1"

it also says if there is no swab it doesn't matter, they use clinical judgement the symptoms of Covid are exactly the same as influenza, Pneumonia, and a host of other life threatening illnesses.


Star=ngely enough the deaths from Influenza dramatically reduced just as Covid 19 reared its head..


And a shocking statistic that to me seems totally unbelievable is the influenza deaths last year
Here are the yearly figures

apparently there was only 1,692 deaths from flu las flu season, just compare that to previous flu seasons.

Yet not one report in the media last year of how well we had done and how much the flu vaccine had helped reduce the death toll



and these were taken from two separate yearly reports from the same government website, oddly enough they cant seem to remember what they put from one year to the next

[OneMoreRep]

A couple of things.

The doctor is a family physician, you do know that family physicians practice primarily and mostly in outpatient clinics, right? They're not inpatient clinicians and their training is not one that lends itself to that kind of setting or acuity level. In rare cases, particularly very rural areas, they make exceptions and place them in hospitals, but it is certainly not the norm nor are they expected to perform any critical care medicine. Not sure I would hang my hat on what this guy is saying based particularly on his credentials, given that the patients that are dying in hospitals are not patients that he has direct access to or would even be needed to fill out death certificates for. When I say I would like to hear the opinions of medical providers in the acute care setting, I mean working in the hospitals within acute care settings like the emergency department and/or ICUs.

I also don't see where they are doing anything inappropriate by writing presumed or probable cause of death. Medicine is in fact not a perfect science and I think we all know and respect this, so specificity while ideal in causes of death isn't always attained.

I also don't think Fauci is perfect or infallible. I think most doctors were slightly clueless when this first hit our shores. That said, I would certainly trust doctor Fauci who leads pretty much all of the Infectious Disease studies in this country and is an author on practically all of the medical school Bibles (think of Harrisons Internal Medicine - practically the textbook that all medical students must have and use throughout med school) over this guy who is simply a family medicine doctor (there's levels to this shit and in the world of medicine they are literally the lowest on the scale and relegated to outpatient work).

Nonetheless, I appreciate you posting the link to that video that gives us better Insight as to what some medical providers, even if on the outside, are thinking regarding the overall coronavirus pandemic.

"1"

[joswift]

A couple of things.

The doctor is a family physician, you do know that family physicians practice primarily and mostly in outpatient clinics, right? They're not inpatient clinicians and their training is not one that lends itself to that kind of setting or acuity level. In rare cases, particularly very rural areas, they make exceptions and place them in hospitals, but it is certainly not the norm nor are they expected to perform any critical care medicine. Not sure I would hang my hat on what this guy is saying based particularly on his credentials, given that the patients that are dying in hospitals are not patients that he has direct access to or would even be needed to fill out death certificates for. When I say I would like to hear the opinions of medical providers in the acute care setting, I mean working in the hospitals within acute care settings like the emergency department and/or ICUs.

I also don't see where they are doing anything inappropriate by writing presumed or probable cause of death. Medicine is in fact not a perfect science and I think we all know and respect this, so specificity while ideal in causes of death isn't always attained.

I also don't think Fauci is perfect or infallible. I think most doctors were slightly clueless when this first hit our shores. That said, I would certainly trust doctor Fauci who leads pretty much all of the Infectious Disease studies in this country and is an author on practically all of the medical school Bibles (think of Harrisons Internal Medicine - practically the textbook that all medical students must have and use throughout med school) over this guy who is simply a family medicine doctor (there's levels to this shit and in the world of medicine they are literally the lowest on the scale and relegated to outpatient work).

Nonetheless, I appreciate you posting the link to that video that gives us better Insight as to what some medical providers, even if on the outside, are thinking regarding the overall coronavirus pandemic.

"1"

I would like to see a live televised debate between Fauci and Judy Mikovits

[Twaddle]

A couple of things.

The doctor is a family physician, you do know that family physicians practice primarily and mostly in outpatient clinics, right? They're not inpatient clinicians and their training is not one that lends itself to that kind of setting or acuity level. In rare cases, particularly very rural areas, they make exceptions and place them in hospitals, but it is certainly not the norm nor are they expected to perform any critical care medicine. Not sure I would hang my hat on what this guy is saying based particularly on his credentials. When I say I would like to hear the opinions of medical providers in the acute care setting, I mean working in the hospitals within acute care settings like the emergency department and/or ICUs.

I also don't see where they are doing anything inappropriate by writing presumed or probable cause of death. Medicine is in fact not a perfect science and I think we all know and respect this, so specificity while ideal in causes of death isn't always attained.

I also don't think Fauci is perfect or infallible. I think most doctors were slightly clueless when this first hit our shores. That said, I would certainly trust doctor Fauci who leads pretty much all of the Infectious Disease studies in this country and is an author on practically all of the medical school Bibles (think of Harrisons Internal Medicine - practically the textbook that all medical students must have and use throughout med school) over this guy who is simply a family medicine doctor (there's levels to this shit and in the world of medicine they are literally the lowest on the scale and relegated to outpatient work).

Nonetheless, I appreciate you posting the link to that video that gives us better Insight as to what some medical providers, even if on the outside, are thinking regarding the overall coronavirus pandemic.

"1"

FFS man, I give up.  You're either completely dense, or playing devil's advocate. 

You want to hear from workers in the acute settings?  I know a nurse, in a large metro hospital.  She said originally the hospital dedicated an entire floor, in preparation for the flood of patients they were expecting.  It never happened.  They have since disbanded the Covid floor, and resumed business as usual. 

[Twaddle]

A couple of things.

The doctor is a family physician, you do know that family physicians practice primarily and mostly in outpatient clinics, right? They're not inpatient clinicians and their training is not one that lends itself to that kind of setting or acuity level. In rare cases, particularly very rural areas, they make exceptions and place them in hospitals, but it is certainly not the norm nor are they expected to perform any critical care medicine. Not sure I would hang my hat on what this guy is saying based particularly on his credentials, given that the patients that are dying in hospitals are not patients that he has direct access to or would even be needed to fill out death certificates for. When I say I would like to hear the opinions of medical providers in the acute care setting, I mean working in the hospitals within acute care settings like the emergency department and/or ICUs.

I also don't see where they are doing anything inappropriate by writing presumed or probable cause of death. Medicine is in fact not a perfect science and I think we all know and respect this, so specificity while ideal in causes of death isn't always attained.

I also don't think Fauci is perfect or infallible. I think most doctors were slightly clueless when this first hit our shores. That said, I would certainly trust doctor Fauci who leads pretty much all of the Infectious Disease studies in this country and is an author on practically all of the medical school Bibles (think of Harrisons Internal Medicine - practically the textbook that all medical students must have and use throughout med school) over this guy who is simply a family medicine doctor (there's levels to this shit and in the world of medicine they are literally the lowest on the scale and relegated to outpatient work).

Nonetheless, I appreciate you posting the link to that video that gives us better Insight as to what some medical providers, even if on the outside, are thinking regarding the overall coronavirus pandemic.

"1"

Would you believe a coroner?  The person who signs the death certificate? 

CORTEZ, Colo. (CBS4) – When police in Cortez, Colorado were called to Cortez City Park early on the morning of May 4, they found Sebastian Yellow, 35, lying on the ground and called it out as a code “Frank,” meaning Yellow had died, according to a police report obtained by CBS4.

Within a week, local Montezuma County Coroner George Deavers determined Yellow had died of acute alcohol poisoning, his blood alcohol measured at .55, nearly twice the lethal limit.

“It was almost double what the minimum lethal amount was in the state”, said Deavers, during an interview with CBS4.

But Deavers said that before he even signed the death certificate, the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment had already categorized Yellow’s death as being due to COVID-19 and it was tabulated that way on the state’s website.

“I can see no reason for this”, said Deavers.

Yellow’s death is the latest in Colorado raising eyebrows over the way the CDPHE is reclassifying deaths that runs contrary to what doctors and coroners initially ruled.

Last month, a CBS4 Investigation revealed the state health department reclassified three deaths at a Centennial nursing home as COVID-19 deaths, despite the fact attending physicians ruled all three were not related to coronavirus.

In each case, the residents had tested positive for COVID-19, but in each case, on-scene doctors ruled the deaths were not related to the virus. Still, in their official tally, the state increased the number of coronavirus deaths at the Someren Glen facility from four to seven, based on the disputed deaths.

On Thursday, state Rep. Mark Baisley, a Republican representing Douglas and Teller Counties, wrote a letter to District Attorney George Brauchler of the 18th Judicial District, asking for a criminal investigation into the reclassification of the Someren Glen deaths and criminal charges against Jill Ryan, the director of the state health department. Baisley wrote that what occurred was “deliberate acts of certificate falsification” and said Baisley, ”I believe these acts of falsely altering death certificates to be criminal acts of tremendous concern to you and my constituents. I hereby request that you investigate this matter with the intent of bringing criminal charges against Jill Ryan.”

Now Montezuma County Coroner George Deavers finds himself in a similar situation in southwestern Colorado, officially ruling Yellow’s death as “ethanol toxicity” but seeing the state record it differently.

“They should have to be recording the same way I do. They have to go off the truth and facts and list it as such,” said Deavers.

He said following Yellow’s death, the man was tested for COVID-19 since he had been associating with someone who was positive for the virus, and the information can be useful in tracking the path of the virus. Deavers said that test on Yellow came back positive, but the coroner insists that had nothing to do with Yellow’s death. In fact, Deavers says a secondary cause was cirrohsis of the liver.

“It wasn’t COVID, it was alcohol toxicity,” said Deavers.”Yes, he did have COVID but that is not what took his life.”

Deavers said he has been calling officials at the CDPHE this week to understand why they classified Yellow’s death as related to the virus, but he said as of Thursday morning, he had not yet received an explanation. He said in Cortez, citizens are wondering what’s going on.

“They’re thinking the state is trying to inflate numbers which it does look like it, whether they are or not, I don’t know,” said Deavers. He said some have suggested, “They’re trying to make it look like its worse than it really is, I don’t know if that’s what their intentions are. Maybe they’re trying to do it for some of the two trillion budgeted in for the COVID.”

However some statisticians, epidemiologists and medical experts, like Dr. Anthony Fauci, have suggested that COVID-19 deaths are likely being undercounted, not over counted. Fauci testified this week before the Senate and was asked if 80,000 deaths from COVID was accurate.

“Most of us feel that the number of deaths are likely higher than that number,” said Fauci. He told the Senate, “I don’t know exactly what percent higher, but almost certainly it’s higher.”

CBS4 contacted the state health department Thursday requesting an explanation for how Yellow’s death was categorized. No immediate explanation was given. But in the case of the Someren Glen deaths, a CDPHE spokesperson said, “The department follows the CDC’s case definition of COVID-19 cases and deaths… When a person with a lab-confirmed case of COVID-19 dies, their death is automatically counted as a COVID-19 death unless there is another cause that completely rules out COVID-19 such as a fatal physical injury.”

Regardless, in Cortez, Deavers says the death of Sebastian Yellow and how the state is handling it is proving problematic. The county has recorded 25 coronavirus cases but 13 of those have recovered, so there are just a dozen active cases, and before Sebastian Yellow, two deaths.

The county applied May 4 for a variance from the statewide safer-at-home public health order to allow restaurants, retail establishments and other businesses to reopen. In its application the county cited its low number of coronavirus cases, but the CDPHE denied that request. The state health department said, “Our reviewers have some concerns about vulnerabilities in Montezuma County and want to monitor the situation before further considering a variance.”

Deavers said, “We have a low number of cases, low number of deaths in our county and we have businesses here that possibly are not going to reopen. Apparently this specific case was what helped them deny letting the variance go through.”

The state health department cited the number of coronavirus cases but other factors as well, including high death and infection rates in adjacent counties in New Mexico. In a letter to Montezuma County, CDPHE said it was concerned with increasing local cases and the situation in New Mexico which could cause problems for the health care system in Montezuma county.

CDPHE responded with this statement: We classify a death as confirmed when there was a case who had a positive SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) laboratory test and then died. We also classify some deaths as probable. You can find the full criteria for that on our website under “About our Data,” but the gist is that there must be strong epidemiological evidence of COVID-19 such as a combination of close contact with a confirmed case and symptoms of COVID-19. We will also count a death as a COVID-19 death when there is no known positive laboratory test but the death certificate lists “COVID-19” as a cause of death.

[OneMoreRep]

I would like to see a live televised debate between Fauci and Judy Mikovits

I don't think he would engage her, given that she is known to be a conspiracy theorist. I don't think he likes to go down those types of rabbit holes.

"1"

[OneMoreRep]

FFS man, I give up.  You're either completely dense, or playing devil's advocate. 

I don't think there is anything dense about what I suggested. You wouldn't ask a psychiatrist to give you advice about a growth on your spine, because he isn't a neurosurgeon and isn't trained to handle those kind of things. Likewise, you wouldn't ask a family medicine physician, who isn't trained to perform within the hospital and is not found within an inpatient setting to comment on a disease process that is being directly treated and managed within hospitals and more particularly in the ICUs.

When you seek to have expert opinions, it's generally helpful to bring in an actual expert.

"1"

[joswift]

I don't think he would engage her, given that she is known to be a conspiracy theorist. I don't think he likes to go down those types of rabbit holes.

"1"

now I know you are trolling. 

[OneMoreRep]

now I know you are trolling. 

 

"1"

[AbrahamG]

I would like to see a live televised debate between Fauci and Judy Mikovits

I would like to see little Antny pull out the ole brajole and for Judy to drop to her knees and suck it dry.

[oldtimer1]

.

[Hypertrophy]

I would like to see little Antny pull out the ole brajole and for Judy to drop to her knees and suck it dry.

I'm sure  little Antny just has to pull out his 80 year old brajole and you'd be puckering up. Must be on a dry spell there Abraham, haha

[Hypertrophy]

.

.

[obsidian]

Why the fuck can you jam into costco yet you can't get a haircut where its just you and the hair cutter who will probably have gloves and a mask on?  WTF!!!!

Yes that doesn't make sense at all. Hair salons could operate by appointment only to limit the number of people that visit. Meanwhile people are standing in line at Costco increasing their chances of getting infected.

Everyone making policy still have their jobs and their paychecks. If the taxpayers aren't getting paid then neither should the government officials who get their income from the tax payers. Believe me, if they weren't able to keep their refrigerators stocked with premium ice-cream things would be very different.

Yep I agree none of them should get paid. Just because they are elected officials doesn't mean they can do whatever they want!

[AbrahamG]

I'm sure  little Antny just has to pull out his 80 year old brajole and you'd be puckering up. Must be on a dry spell there Abraham, haha

The isolation is killing me.  No homo.