Why Lee Haney is superior grand master of training compared to Dorian Yates

[pamith]

It's way to risky for everyone, and unnecessary.

For natties is different, natties can do high intensity training

[pellius]

Other than his torn up arms Dorian looks good.

Tans too much though...

His arms are fine. Remember, he still won the O with the torn bicep. He has not lost any function in his arms that hinders him in anyway giving his lifestyle.

[pellius]

He tore his arms to shreds, which forced him to retire early.  His arms today measure 13", and have basically zero muscle.  His yoga/bike thing is a cope, because his muscles and joints are destroyed.

His arms are "torn to shreds?" has basically "zero muscle?" If you didn't follow bbing and never knew he was a Mr. O you would think that for a guy pushing 60 years old that he's in pretty good shape. He's moved beyond trying to have a pretty body. He's enjoying his life.

What is it with GetBiggers that they always want to see a person in the worse possible light?

[pellius]

I think 13 inches is a stretch.  He actually has a very good beach body today.  No homo.

Stephano seems to be still at the stage that the most important thing in life is having big muscles. Some men grow up and take on other interests and have other priorities than pruning and prepping your body so you can impress others when you take off your shirt.

[Van_Bilderass]

His arms are fine. Remember, he still won the O with the torn bicep. He has not lost any function in his arms that hinders him in anyway giving his lifestyle.

Can't lift much though.

[pellius]

He tore both his tricep and bicep on one arm. Yes, I agree he does look in good shape now claiming he is off steroids but is he truly clean? Wonder if he still uses syringes and vials of testosterone to keep his physique in check. Truth be told if he turned into a slob it would be bad for business. If the is clean he truly has an incredible physique now.

Yes, he injured himself. Just like many athletes do that are trying to become the best in the world. To do that you have to be willing to do things that few, if anyone, is willing to do to be number one. Taking your body to the limit and beyond is not healthy but you only get one shot to make a mark. He built a good life on being the best bber in the world in his era.

I'm sure he is on TRT, just like I am, and just like I think all men should be on if they are active and want a higher quality of life. You only go around once and you should do all that you can to maintain your health and quality of life.

[pellius]

This. One of the best Doctors I know was telling there are an obscene number of 35 plus yearolds with long term injuries, because they just trained with too much intensity for too long. Most were crossfiters, second on the list were bodybuilders and then people who liked to run on pavements with rucksacks on. Their quality of life is now little better than a couch potatoes.

What kind of shape is you doctor in and how much experience does he have in weight training.

[pellius]

Can't lift much though.

I think you can live a fulfilling life without lifting weights. That's why I said his injuries don't seem to hinder him much given his current lifestyle. He's still active and doesn't have to grow through the grind of going to the gym everyday.

[pellius]

It's way to risky for everyone, and unnecessary.

You don't get hurt training intensely. That is a myth. You get hurt training sloppy. Throwing weights and working with weights too heavy for you. Super-Slow training is one of the hardest, painful, and intense workout protocols you can do but you are not going to hurt yourself. Ever since being introduced to Arthur Jones and Mike Menter I have trained HIT for decades: force reps, drop set, negatives, pre-exhaust. I almost never stop at positive failure. I am sixty years old now and though I have been plagued with injuries due to sports, I have never ever hurt myself in the gym. I always train with strict form and use weights that I can handle safely.

If anything, assuming your form is good, your most intense rep is actually your safest rep and you're more likely to hurt yourself at the beginning of a set rather than the end. Again, this applies only if your form is intact.

[joswift]

You don't get hurt training intensely. That is a myth. You get hurt training sloppy. Throwing weights and working with weights too heavy for you. Super-Slow training is one of the hardest, painful, and intense workout protocols you can do but you are not going to hurt yourself. Ever since being introduced to Arthur Jones and Mike Menter I have trained HIT for decades: force reps, drop set, negatives, pre-exhaust. I almost never stop at positive failure. I am sixty years old now and though I have been plagued with injuries due to sports, I have never ever hurt myself in the gym. I always train with strict form and use weights that I can handle safely.

If anything, assuming your form is good, your most intense rep is actually your safest rep and you're more likely to hurt yourself at the beginning of a set rather than the end. Again, this applies only if your form is intact.

true dat...

[pellius]

true dat...

Perhaps I should explain why I say your most intense rep, your last rep, is probably the safest rep in a set as it seems counter-intuitive. Again it is very important to emphasize that your form must be strict which is often not the case as you struggle with the last rep. For many, their form degrades considerably as they try to eke out another rep they are not capable of doing strictly. But that is an issue of training form and not intensity.

There is an inverse relationship between force and intensity. The force you generate moving the weight and how hard it takes you to do that. The amount of effort, intensity, you have to generate to complete that rep. Say you can curl 100 lbs for ten reps full complete strict reps but fail to do eleven. During the first rep it is very easy. You could easily do more than 100 lbs if you had to. So your ability to generate force is high and intensity is low. As the set progresses your ability to generate that 100 lbs of force starts to wane and it gets harder to do that next rep. Hence, intensity starts to increase. You have to work harder. By the time you get that last complete rep you are barely able to generate that 100 lbs and it takes a lot of effort, a lot of intensity, to do so. Your biceps are now fatigued and thus weaker.

You injure yourself when you exceed the tensile strength of the muscle, tendons, or ligaments. By the time you've done the last STRICT rep you are simply unable to generate that amount of force to exceed that tensile strength. You are simply too weak to hurt yourself.

[joswift]

Perhaps I should explain why I say your most intense rep, your last rep, is probably the safest rep in a set as it seems counter-intuitive. Again it is very important to emphasize that your form must be strict which is often not the case as you struggle with the last rep. For many, their form degrades considerably as they try to eke out another rep they are not capable of doing strictly. But that is an issue of training form and not intensity.

There is an inverse relationship between force and intensity. The force you generate moving the weight and how hard it takes you to do that. The amount of effort, intensity, you have to generate to complete that rep. Say you can curl 100 lbs for ten reps full complete strict reps but fail to do eleven. During the first rep it is very easy. You could easily do more than 100 lbs if you had to. So your ability to generate force is high and intensity is low. As the set progresses your ability to generate that 100 lbs of force starts to wane and it gets harder to do that next rep. Hence, intensity starts to increase. You have to work harder. By the time you get that last complete rep you are barely able to generate that 100 lbs and it takes a lot of effort, a lot of intensity, to do so. Your biceps are now fatigued and thus weaker.

You injure yourself when you exceed the tensile strength of the muscle, tendons, or ligaments. By the time you've done the last STRICT rep you are simply unable to generate that amount of force to exceed that tensile strength. You are simply too weak to hurt yourself.

100%

Its when people start doing cheat reps throwing weights around when they get hurt, once you lose control of a weight thats when the problems start.

Biceps curls are a typical exercise, they start very strict and isolate the biceps, once the bicep is done they start arching the back and using momentum to throw the weight around, chances are thats when you are going to tear something, that and putting the muscle under tension at full extension, like these guys

[Flexacon]

What kind of shape is you doctor in and how much experience does he have in weight training.

He's not my Doctor, but he's in great shape. He's primarily a cyclist who likes to lift.

You don't get hurt training intensely. That is a myth. You get hurt training sloppy. Throwing weights and working with weights too heavy for you. Super-Slow training is one of the hardest, painful, and intense workout protocols you can do but you are not going to hurt yourself. Ever since being introduced to Arthur Jones and Mike Menter I have trained HIT for decades: force reps, drop set, negatives, pre-exhaust. I almost never stop at positive failure. I am sixty years old now and though I have been plagued with injuries due to sports, I have never ever hurt myself in the gym. I always train with strict form and use weights that I can handle safely.

If anything, assuming your form is good, your most intense rep is actually your safest rep and you're more likely to hurt yourself at the beginning of a set rather than the end. Again, this applies only if your form is intact.

You do if you don't get enough rest and don't allow your body sufficient recovery time. And it's not just injuries in the gym that are the problem. It's the premature  wear and tear that takes place on the body. Weight training done right ( not for ego, competition, sports etc) should prolong and/or help prevent things like bone strength, mobility, cns function, muscle atrophy etc. Arguably weight training is more useful the older you are. Too many gym rats however will physically be unable to train effectively when it's most needed.

[Equalizer]

Yates guest posing in Pittsburgh 1997 at 310lbs.
https://www.facebook.com/34428725513/posts/10163700456320514/

[joswift]

Yates guest posing in Pittsburgh 1997 at 310lbs.
https://www.facebook.com/34428725513/posts/10163700456320514/

Dorian comes on at 3mins 10 seconds so you dont need to listen to all his waffle

[escrima]

Perhaps I should explain why I say your most intense rep, your last rep, is probably the safest rep in a set as it seems counter-intuitive. Again it is very important to emphasize that your form must be strict which is often not the case as you struggle with the last rep. For many, their form degrades considerably as they try to eke out another rep they are not capable of doing strictly. But that is an issue of training form and not intensity.

There is an inverse relationship between force and intensity. The force you generate moving the weight and how hard it takes you to do that. The amount of effort, intensity, you have to generate to complete that rep. Say you can curl 100 lbs for ten reps full complete strict reps but fail to do eleven. During the first rep it is very easy. You could easily do more than 100 lbs if you had to. So your ability to generate force is high and intensity is low. As the set progresses your ability to generate that 100 lbs of force starts to wane and it gets harder to do that next rep. Hence, intensity starts to increase. You have to work harder. By the time you get that last complete rep you are barely able to generate that 100 lbs and it takes a lot of effort, a lot of intensity, to do so. Your biceps are now fatigued and thus weaker.

You injure yourself when you exceed the tensile strength of the muscle, tendons, or ligaments. By the time you've done the last STRICT rep you are simply unable to generate that amount of force to exceed that tensile strength. You are simply too weak to hurt yourself.

you seem to know everything about everything pal. Steroids, training, Mr O.  were you ever a pro? just asking as you seem to be the man (sarcasm end)

[johnny1]

Dorian comes on at 3mins 10 seconds so you dont need to listen to all his waffle

absolutely mind blogging thickness everywhere even his arms carrying that weight are huge I don’t know if ANYONE too date has actually carried that much muscle @ 310lbs and still actually resembles a bodybuilder his back, chest, legs are massive rare video

[Flexacon]

absolutely mind blogging thickness everywhere even his arms carrying that weight are huge I don’t know if ANYONE too date has actually carried that much muscle @ 310lbs and still actually resembles a bodybuilder his back, chest, legs are massive rare video

Ronnie and Ramy have surpassed that. Kai was pretty close too for his height.

[Humble Narcissist]

You don't get hurt training intensely. That is a myth. You get hurt training sloppy. Throwing weights and working with weights too heavy for you. Super-Slow training is one of the hardest, painful, and intense workout protocols you can do but you are not going to hurt yourself. Ever since being introduced to Arthur Jones and Mike Menter I have trained HIT for decades: force reps, drop set, negatives, pre-exhaust. I almost never stop at positive failure. I am sixty years old now and though I have been plagued with injuries due to sports, I have never ever hurt myself in the gym. I always train with strict form and use weights that I can handle safely.

If anything, assuming your form is good, your most intense rep is actually your safest rep and you're more likely to hurt yourself at the beginning of a set rather than the end. Again, this applies only if your form is intact.

It just so happens that everyone who gets injured trains intensely.  They must all have bad form.

[escrima]

It just so happens that everyone who gets injured trains intensely.  They must all have bad form.

THIS even with good form with heavy weight your joints will over time feel wear and tear. same in any sport if you´re training hard over some years.

[pellius]

He's not my Doctor, but he's in great shape. He's primarily a cyclist who likes to lift.


You do if you don't get enough rest and don't allow your body sufficient recovery time. And it's not just injuries in the gym that are the problem. It's the premature  wear and tear that takes place on the body. Weight training done right ( not for ego, competition, sports etc) should prolong and/or help prevent things like bone strength, mobility, cns function, muscle atrophy etc. Arguably weight training is more useful the older you are. Too many gym rats however will physically be unable to train effectively when it's most needed.

That's over training. A completely different issue. By definition you over train by training too much regardless of intensity. Jog twenty miles every day and you will over train.

[pellius]

you seem to know everything about everything pal. Steroids, training, Mr O.  were you ever a pro? just asking as you seem to be the man (sarcasm end)

I don't know everything and was never a pro bber or even a competitive one. If you can present a rational argument to dispute my points I am willing to debate and be proven wrong.

[pellius]

It just so happens that everyone who gets injured trains intensely.  They must all have bad form.

Absolutely positively wrong. A guy at work, about 22 years old that competes in Jiu-Jitsu, threw out his back picking up a box that probably weighed about thirty pounds. He was loading it on to a truck bed and picked up the box twisting to the side rather than picking it up facing square on using his legs like you would do in a dead lift.

[pellius]

THIS even with good form with heavy weight your joints will over time feel wear and tear. same in any sport if you´re training hard over some years.

You know, or at least I hope you do, that wear and tear is quite different from an injury that you get immediately following the trauma. Wear and tear takes place over time and is not an injury per se. Grannies that never lifted weights in their life get knee replacements just by being fat and old. My uncle who is 83 years old has problems with his knees and back. MRIs shows how much "cushion" he has lost in knees and the disks in his back. Again, never lifter weights but just wear and tear.

[Methyl m1ke]

So he's using a dose that a typical non bodybuilder 60 year old would use for hormone replacement or is he using a little more. Inquiring minds want to know. Just because you are injecting testosterone it doesn't make it the typical hormone replacement that an old man uses prescribed by his doctor. You had a question if I knew anything about steroids?  More than you know.

Dorian stated somewhat recently he is not training at all and not taking trt or anything. He said muscle loss as you age is a natural process and he thinks the body needs to wind down as you get older or something bad might happen. Maybe heart attack? Who knows.