Why Lee Haney is superior grand master of training compared to Dorian Yates

[Flexacon]

That's over training. A completely different issue. By definition you over train by training too much regardless of intensity. Jog twenty miles every day and you will over train.

Funnily enough that was my original point and you decided you'd dismiss it by asking what the Doctor looked like and then proceed to pretty much tell me the same thing I posted.

This. One of the best Doctors I know was telling there are an obscene number of 35 plus yearolds with long term injuries, because they just trained with too much intensity for too long. Most were crossfiters, second on the list were bodybuilders and then people who liked to run on pavements with rucksacks on. Their quality of life is now little better than a couch potatoes.

Run 20 miles every day and you'll break down faster than if you jog it.

[pellius]

Funnily enough that was my original point and you decided you'd dismiss it by asking what the Doctor looked like and then proceed to pretty much tell me the same thing I posted.

Run 20 miles every day and you'll break down faster than if you jog it.

The original point is that intensity makes one more prone to injury. I disagree. You brought up overtraining which is another issue entirely. Being tired and weak doesn't cause injury. You may be more prone to sloppy form if you are tired which makes you more prone to injury. And yes, though jogging 20 miles every day will cause over training, running 20 miles every day (if you can for 20 miles) will cause over training as well. What's your point.

I didn't dismiss anything. It's just that it happens ofter that doctors, personal trainers, and coaches will give all this advice when they have no or very little hands on experience. It matters if a doctor is a fatso if he is giving you diet advice. Or if a personal trainer is out of shape or has no proven record and achieving anything in physical fitness. I asked the question as one of the ways to determine his credibility.

[The Scott]

Arnold at  his best is The Best.

As for Haney?  I think he was gifted more than a few Mr. Olympias (at least three and maybe four).  I also think that prime Dorian is better than prime Haney.  But...Haney is far better than that (now barely) ambulatory pile of shit known as Ronnie Coleman.

I tend toward the more aesthetic than the overly massive but in Arnold's case he was "maesthetic", i.e., the perfect combination of both sides of the coin.   The main thing that Dorian and Coleman have in common is the overdosing of all manner of PEDs. In Coleman's case, he screwed  himself big time. Fuck him.  He's an idiot.   

Yates appears to be descending into a cloud of dope.  His choice but at least he can still walk and no matter how high he gets, he'll never reach the depths of that one dick pony, Kai Greene.

I don't think much of Haney as far as his physique goes but he appears to be better off than Yates and Coleman.  Probably due to not upping the dose and worse.  He's a liar like the rest of them.

"No stayroids.  Jess goot food 'n' Weider supplements".  FTN.

[friedchickendinner]

Think it depends on what you mean with intensity

In dorians case it meant using the heaviest weights possible.

So unless you're doing just that, in other words, loading up the leg press with as much weight as you can, loading up the hack squat with as much weight as you can, use a pull over machine with as heavy as you can etc

youre not really training intense, not by dorians standards anyway

[escrima]

Funnily enough that was my original point and you decided you'd dismiss it by asking what the Doctor looked like and then proceed to pretty much tell me the same thing I posted.

Run 20 miles every day and you'll break down faster than if you jog it.

just let him talk to himself. seems to very opinionated. likes the sound of his own voice. 

[joswift]

Think it depends on what you mean with intensity

In dorians case it meant using the heaviest weights possible.

So unless you're doing just that, in other words, loading up the leg press with as much weight as you can, loading up the hack squat with as much weight as you can, use a pull over machine with as heavy as you can etc

youre not really training intense, not by dorians standards anyway

muscles dont know weight, they only know intensity..

[escrima]

muscles dont know weight, they only know intensity..

yeah but you´ll never build thick slabs of beef without some decent weight . please let´s not start a light vs heavy debate.

[joswift]

yeah but you´ll never build thick slabs of beef without some decent weight . please let´s not start a light vs heavy debate.

thats because a decent amount of weight creates intensity

Dynamic tension training without weights just doesn't allow that same level of intensity to be generated

[escrima]

thats because a decent amount of weight creates intensity

Dynamic tension training without weights just doesn't allow that same level of intensity to be generated

listen i used a Bullworker as a kid. I felt like steve reeves. Think it was isometrics & isotonics?

[escrima]

yeah...thought this was the fecker   

[Flexacon]

The original point is that intensity makes one more prone to injury. I disagree. You brought up overtraining which is another issue entirely. Being tired and weak doesn't cause injury. You may be more prone to sloppy form if you are tired which makes you more prone to injury. And yes, though jogging 20 miles every day will cause over training, running 20 miles every day (if you can for 20 miles) will cause over training as well. What's your point.

I didn't dismiss anything. It's just that it happens ofter that doctors, personal trainers, and coaches will give all this advice when they have no or very little hands on experience. It matters if a doctor is a fatso if he is giving you diet advice. Or if a personal trainer is out of shape or has no proven record and achieving anything in physical fitness. I asked the question as one of the ways to determine his credibility.

No, the point is that it's an unnecessary risk. Overtraining and training intensity can go hand in hand as it's much easier to over train if you train with high intensity (note I did need use the words over train originally, just using it here for discussion. My original point was  too much intensity for too long increased the risk factor)

Also the doctor I mentioned wasn't giving any advice. He provided an observation based on the types of people that were coming to see him and the types of exercise and duration they were involved in. What relevance does how he look play in that?

What is the more intense form of exercise, running or jogging? Which would lead to a person breaking down faster?

[escrima]

[friedchickendinner]

Dorian is no Samir

[joswift]

listen i used a Bullworker as a kid. I felt like steve reeves. Think it was isometrics & isotonics?

my dad taught me a load of dynamic tension exercises, it was basically tensing your muscles as hard as you could and moving it through a range of motion

He only showed me them because he couldnt afford to buy me a weight set

[escrima]

my dad taught me a load of dynamic tension exercises, it was basically tensing your muscles as hard as you could and moving it through a range of motion

He only showed me them because he couldnt afford to buy me a weight set

so did it work?

[friedchickendinner]

Another thing that works is just sitting still imagine muscle

[Humble Narcissist]

Another thing that works is just sitting still imagine muscle

There was actually a course someone used to sell in the back of MuscleMag International in the 80's that taught visualization to build muscle.

[escrima]

There was actually a course someone used to sell in the back of MuscleMag International in the 80's that taught visualization to build muscle.

I think it was more meditation to visulize it growing. maybe like thinking about pussy?

[Humble Narcissist]

I think it was more meditation to visulize it growing. maybe like thinking about pussy?

The only difference is that thinking about pussy does actually make you grow.

[escrima]

The only difference is that thinking about pussy does actually make you grow.

that Sir, was my point 

[pellius]

just let him talk to himself. seems to very opinionated. likes the sound of his own voice. 

If there is a flaw in my reasoning then please present a counter-argument. One of the reasons why you are not a very popular poster here is that you offer nothing of value to the board.

[pellius]

Think it depends on what you mean with intensity

In dorians case it meant using the heaviest weights possible.

So unless you're doing just that, in other words, loading up the leg press with as much weight as you can, loading up the hack squat with as much weight as you can, use a pull over machine with as heavy as you can etc

youre not really training intense, not by dorians standards anyway

Not true. Intensity is defined as momentary effort. If you pick a weight light enough to do 20 reps and despite your best effort you cannot do 21 reps that 20th rep is going to be your most intense reps. I assume you never tried the 20 rep squat protocol that was so popular many years back. You don't need heavy weights, or even any weight at all, to maximize intensity of effort. A sprinter going for a world record is pushing himself to the max and you can see how exhausted a sprinter is after less than 10 seconds of effort.

[pellius]

listen i used a Bullworker as a kid. I felt like steve reeves. Think it was isometrics & isotonics?

"Felling" like Steve Reeves means nothing. What did you look like?

[pellius]

No, the point is that it's an unnecessary risk. Overtraining and training intensity can go hand in hand as it's much easier to over train if you train with high intensity (note I did need use the words over train originally, just using it here for discussion. My original point was  too much intensity for too long increased the risk factor)

Also the doctor I mentioned wasn't giving any advice. He provided an observation based on the types of people that were coming to see him and the types of exercise and duration they were involved in. What relevance does how he look play in that?

What is the more intense form of exercise, running or jogging? Which would lead to a person breaking down faster?

I agree with the first paragraph. As far as your doctor -- fair enough. I wasn't trying to dismiss you or anything but rather establishing credibility.

Regarding you last point, I said the exact same thing in my previous reply to you.

[Walter Sobchak]

Not true. Intensity is defined as momentary effort. If you pick a weight light enough to do 20 reps and despite your best effort you cannot do 21 reps that 20th rep is going to be your most intense reps. I assume you never tried the 20 rep squat protocol that was so popular many years back. You don't need heavy weights, or even any weight at all, to maximize intensity of effort. A sprinter going for a world record is pushing himself to the max and you can see how exhausted a sprinter is after less than 10 seconds of effort.

Where did you find that definition of intensity?

Wouldn’t we all agree that to increase intensity you would need to either do:
(1) More work in same amount of time
(2) Same amount of work in less time

Work = force x distance

So it’s easy to see how to do more work:
(1) Heavier force moved the same distance
(2) Same force moved over a longer distance

In this instance force is the “weight” you’re lifting and distance is the number of “reps” you’re doing.

If you think about it, it’s no more difficult than that.