Author Topic: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics  (Read 3861 times)

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2020, 02:53:53 PM »
Wrestlers do tons of pullups and usually rope climbing as well. 

The top level guys have been doing so since they were little kids, usually starting very young.

Most have skinny legs which is really an advantage as it gives them a high strength to weight ratio.

Remember the guy with no legs who won an NCAA title?  It was actually an advantage because he had the upper body strength of several weight classes above his actual weight.  He was stronger than all his opponents.  Plus nobody could take him down!

Still an amazing story.

You see in a lot of sports. Swimmers tend to have a good shoulders because the swimming stroke is mainly deltoids. Basketball players too because their arms are overhead when shooting and playing defense.

pellius

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2020, 05:01:19 PM »
get it in your heads



You like to give a lot of unsolicited training advice. How come you are afraid to post a pic showing what all this knowledge and training has done for you in real life?

Straw Man

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2020, 07:02:20 PM »
I remember watching Mike Mentzer on the Super Stars competition running the 100 yard dash. It was sad watching him run it. Reminded me a fat house wife waddling. 

Regarding doing cardio or aerobics Mike use to run and bike in his prime and documented it in his training journals. He became anti cardio after he stopped competing. Probably because he smoked like a chimney and did meth that made him so exhausted I bet he could barely walk.

Mentzer had a great build (so did his brother) but his results were due mostly to genetic and drugs and his nutritional advise was idiotic


pamith

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2020, 07:56:34 PM »
You can't believe everything Mentzer says, he was a great bodybuilder, huge, but he was not natty and he had some very radical ideas

escrima

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2020, 02:37:23 AM »
I dont take advice from loser meth addicts who quit their game and suicide out because they got beat

get that in your head
Bitter post
History of Meth in your Family?

escrima

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2020, 02:54:36 AM »
I think some are missing the point here
Mikeīs theory was a short hard workout not endless sets
If you are giving examples of of big quad cyclists doing just sprint training then what is this?
It is essentially a HIIT workout not a marathon. 
unless you are a Bum like Pellius with no job who the hell has time to train for hours like a Lance Armstrong?
Tom Platz was a keen cyclist but he never put this down to his big meaty quad development even if using more sets than Mike
indeed Bill Pearl took up serious cycling when he retired from competition but later said he lost too much weight & size. look at him in pictures posing in Derby England at 56 when he went back to weight training

Montague

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2020, 04:16:06 AM »
Mentzer had a great build (so did his brother) but his results were due mostly to genetic and drugs and his nutritional advise was idiotic


I believe I'd read that he also achieved most of his best results before espousing his "less conventional" ideas later.

escrima

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2020, 05:19:27 AM »





escrima

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2020, 05:21:52 AM »
Tom Platz used a lot of intensity techniques like Mike

escrima

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2020, 07:10:16 AM »
talks about Bruce Lee at about the 3/4 mark
Mike & Bruce were thinkers
and..doers


Humble Narcissist

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2020, 09:56:14 AM »
Tom Platz used a lot of intensity techniques like Mike
And blew out his bicep ending his competitive career.

Matt

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2020, 10:32:55 AM »


^ I posted that just for the opening.  The DVD started with the song "Darude" by Sandstorm.

Here are the lyrics:

Doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo

I guess it was removed on copyright grounds.  I guess Mike or the producers of the DVD included it without permission.

Mentzer looks great in those opening shots though!

Here is the song:


pellius

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2020, 08:24:29 PM »

I believe I'd read that he also achieved most of his best results before espousing his "less conventional" ideas later.

I hear this all the time but not only is it not true but it is verifiably untrue. First of all, he was inspired when he first saw Casey Viator. It was through Casey that Mike learned about Arthur Jones. Mike wrote that this was at a time when he was growing very unsatisfied and uninspired with his progress. After speaking at length with Jones it gave Mike, like so many others, including myself, who took the current training six days a week, 20 sets/body part, 2 hours/day as gospel because, after all, that was what all the Arnold era champs were doing; a whole new perspective on training.

People take it for granted that back in those days, for me that would be the 1970s, nobody talked about the role of genetics and the importance of recovery. It was always about the pump and training more. If you had a "weak body part" the solution was always to do more sets. For someone like me, and the vast majority of average Joes out there, EVERY bodypart was weak so that left us in quite a dilemma. Training more and more and more. Sure everybody knew we all needed a good night's sleep but never was the concept that results occur outside the gym during the recovery period. Jones made the point that the solution is rarely to train more but to train harder. The one concept that stood out for me, and Mike Mentzer, simply because it made logical sense, was that: As long as you are working within your functional ability. As long as you are doing things that are already easy. Exercise will do little or nothing by way of increasing, size, strength, and functional ability. If you can do 10 pull-ups and just keep doing 10 reps never even attempting the 11th rep, you will not stimulate an adaptive response. Isn't the whole point of lifting weights was to subject your body to a stimulous that it was not accustom to?

When you look at Mike when he first move to Florida to train with Jones you can see he was nowhere near the level of developent he was later to achieve using the basic, and somewhat tweaked, principles he learned from Jones.

Montague

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2020, 02:23:23 PM »
I hear this all the time but not only is it not true but it is verifiably untrue. First of all, he was inspired when he first saw Casey Viator. It was through Casey that Mike learned about Arthur Jones. Mike wrote that this was at a time when he was growing very unsatisfied and uninspired with his progress. After speaking at length with Jones it gave Mike, like so many others, including myself, who took the current training six days a week, 20 sets/body part, 2 hours/day as gospel because, after all, that was what all the Arnold era champs were doing; a whole new perspective on training.

People take it for granted that back in those days, for me that would be the 1970s, nobody talked about the role of genetics and the importance of recovery. It was always about the pump and training more. If you had a "weak body part" the solution was always to do more sets. For someone like me, and the vast majority of average Joes out there, EVERY bodypart was weak so that left us in quite a dilemma. Training more and more and more. Sure everybody knew we all needed a good night's sleep but never was the concept that results occur outside the gym during the recovery period. Jones made the point that the solution is rarely to train more but to train harder. The one concept that stood out for me, and Mike Mentzer, simply because it made logical sense, was that: As long as you are working within your functional ability. As long as you are doing things that are already easy. Exercise will do little or nothing by way of increasing, size, strength, and functional ability. If you can do 10 pull-ups and just keep doing 10 reps never even attempting the 11th rep, you will not stimulate an adaptive response. Isn't the whole point of lifting weights was to subject your body to a stimulous that it was not accustom to?

When you look at Mike when he first move to Florida to train with Jones you can see he was nowhere near the level of developent he was later to achieve using the basic, and somewhat tweaked, principles he learned from Jones.


Interesting.
I've never really analyzed it that way (or at all, really).

Jones was no dummy.

escrima

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2020, 01:18:23 AM »
Jones was a Manīs Man




Kwon

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2020, 03:11:35 AM »
Here are the lyrics:

Doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo

I guess it was removed on copyright grounds.  I guess Mike or the producers of the DVD included it without permission.

Mentzer looks great in those opening shots though!

Here is the song:



Best lyrics ever!
Q

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2020, 05:10:16 AM »
Jones was a Manīs Man


There are several good books on Jones.

bigbychoices

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2020, 05:27:14 AM »
         im gonna respond even though i know it will make a certain someone who thinks he knows everything start with the arguing etc.  mike did not train like he preached. neither did casey. neither did sergio.  everyone of them ( including arnold) did TRY jones way. arniold said if he had to train that way he would quit and take up biking or swimming. and arnold is was and will forever be the best built man . in the day they believed in intesity not just stopping cuz you hit 10 reps etc. its called progressive resistance. when they could get their desired number of reps they added weight. and what the mags never told you is the long 20 sets etc were only at contest time to help bring out the muscularity. they were dieting and couldnt nor shouldnt use maximum weights ( yates learned this the hard way).  the changes to mikes rays caseys sergios arnolds or anyone elses  wasnt due to jones or hit or heavy duty. IT WAS DRUGS. casey was in an accident lost a bunch of weight then did the colorado "experiment".  ( great way to sell nautilus)
                 in fact casey used drugs during it ( jones didnt know supposedly) and casey also snuck out and trained at night to get more workouts in. mike and ray would do 3 or 4 "warm up sets" then 1 to failure( mostly positive failure)  mike was trying to sell books and get seminars and make money. PERIOD. he latched onto jones ideas and seen a way to stand out like he was some kind of expert . lmao. mike was a drug addicted narrow minded insecure person.  he had a decent body at his best but not a prize winning body in my opinion.  always writting like he knows more than anyone else( kinda like the person i said would start his arguments)  intesity is important. no doubht. you have to make each workout harder than the last if you want to continue to progress. didnt think they did back in arnolds day? watch pumping iron. arnold says " the body isnt used to doing the 9th 10th 11th or 12th rep. that then is what makes you grow. going thru this pain barrier" . so go ahead and start badmouthing everything i wrote even down to my writting. im not gonna respond back. im a man. a real man. not a keyboard tuff guy. and no i wont show pics of myself so some of you fags can jack off. or post them elsewhere. smh. and ive noticed this one person who "brags" about his body wil show body pics with no face or face pics fully clothed. looking to be about 140 lbs. like a marathon runner NOT  bodybuilder

IroNat

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2020, 06:05:08 AM »
         im gonna respond even though i know it will make a certain someone who thinks he knows everything start with the arguing etc.  mike did not train like he preached. neither did casey. neither did sergio.  everyone of them ( including arnold) did TRY jones way. arniold said if he had to train that way he would quit and take up biking or swimming. and arnold is was and will forever be the best built man . in the day they believed in intesity not just stopping cuz you hit 10 reps etc. its called progressive resistance. when they could get their desired number of reps they added weight. and what the mags never told you is the long 20 sets etc were only at contest time to help bring out the muscularity. they were dieting and couldnt nor shouldnt use maximum weights ( yates learned this the hard way).  the changes to mikes rays caseys sergios arnolds or anyone elses  wasnt due to jones or hit or heavy duty. IT WAS DRUGS. casey was in an accident lost a bunch of weight then did the colorado "experiment".  ( great way to sell nautilus)
                 in fact casey used drugs during it ( jones didnt know supposedly) and casey also snuck out and trained at night to get more workouts in. mike and ray would do 3 or 4 "warm up sets" then 1 to failure( mostly positive failure)  mike was trying to sell books and get seminars and make money. PERIOD. he latched onto jones ideas and seen a way to stand out like he was some kind of expert . lmao. mike was a drug addicted narrow minded insecure person.  he had a decent body at his best but not a prize winning body in my opinion.  always writting like he knows more than anyone else( kinda like the person i said would start his arguments)  intesity is important. no doubht. you have to make each workout harder than the last if you want to continue to progress. didnt think they did back in arnolds day? watch pumping iron. arnold says " the body isnt used to doing the 9th 10th 11th or 12th rep. that then is what makes you grow. going thru this pain barrier" . so go ahead and start badmouthing everything i wrote even down to my writting. im not gonna respond back. im a man. a real man. not a keyboard tuff guy. and no i wont show pics of myself so some of you fags can jack off. or post them elsewhere. smh. and ive noticed this one person who "brags" about his body wil show body pics with no face or face pics fully clothed. looking to be about 140 lbs. like a marathon runner NOT  bodybuilder

Grade C+.

Good content but poor grammar, punctuation, etc.

Suggested reading...


Humble Narcissist

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2020, 06:37:02 AM »
         im gonna respond even though i know it will make a certain someone who thinks he knows everything start with the arguing etc.  mike did not train like he preached. neither did casey. neither did sergio.  everyone of them ( including arnold) did TRY jones way. arniold said if he had to train that way he would quit and take up biking or swimming. and arnold is was and will forever be the best built man . in the day they believed in intesity not just stopping cuz you hit 10 reps etc. its called progressive resistance. when they could get their desired number of reps they added weight. and what the mags never told you is the long 20 sets etc were only at contest time to help bring out the muscularity. they were dieting and couldnt nor shouldnt use maximum weights ( yates learned this the hard way).  the changes to mikes rays caseys sergios arnolds or anyone elses  wasnt due to jones or hit or heavy duty. IT WAS DRUGS. casey was in an accident lost a bunch of weight then did the colorado "experiment".  ( great way to sell nautilus)
                 in fact casey used drugs during it ( jones didnt know supposedly) and casey also snuck out and trained at night to get more workouts in. mike and ray would do 3 or 4 "warm up sets" then 1 to failure( mostly positive failure)  mike was trying to sell books and get seminars and make money. PERIOD. he latched onto jones ideas and seen a way to stand out like he was some kind of expert . lmao. mike was a drug addicted narrow minded insecure person.  he had a decent body at his best but not a prize winning body in my opinion.  always writting like he knows more than anyone else( kinda like the person i said would start his arguments)  intesity is important. no doubht. you have to make each workout harder than the last if you want to continue to progress. didnt think they did back in arnolds day? watch pumping iron. arnold says " the body isnt used to doing the 9th 10th 11th or 12th rep. that then is what makes you grow. going thru this pain barrier" . so go ahead and start badmouthing everything i wrote even down to my writting. im not gonna respond back. im a man. a real man. not a keyboard tuff guy. and no i wont show pics of myself so some of you fags can jack off. or post them elsewhere. smh. and ive noticed this one person who "brags" about his body wil show body pics with no face or face pics fully clothed. looking to be about 140 lbs. like a marathon runner NOT  bodybuilder
I've said it before, Jones was a genius marketer, not a genius scientist or engineer.

IroNat

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2020, 10:59:05 AM »
Jones made good machines but his theories are bullsh*t.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Bodybuilding is not Aerobics
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2020, 11:27:04 AM »
Jones made good machines but his theories are bullsh*t.
I agree with about half of what he said.