Paul Dilette - Freak

[oldschoolfan]

What? Have you factored in frequency? You think if you train balls to the wall until you collapes but do it Mentzer style during his crazy years and only do it once or twice a month you will over train?

The other aspects to HIT wasn't just intensity but frequency and duration. Both drastically reduced to accommodate the intensity. I believe in the Colorado experiment every training session was under a half an hour.

pellius i think alot of people do not even understand the true concept of h.i.t  they think it is maximum weight and just moving a weight up and down, but it is not, i have some of mikes training videos he filmed with gmv video, he did very slow contractions. you shouldnt waste your time trying to explain to some morons on here, what h.i.t is  they do not have the brain capacity to understand it

[pellius]

Maybe you know something that I don't know

Over training, is a form of stress in which you exceed you body's recuperative abiity. Just being alive requires metabolic support in which there is a cost. A cost in energy and what is loosely called "wear and tear". Even if you do no training at all, in fact, even if you just sit around all day, you are still using energy and cellular resources that cause varying degrees of "wear and tear." Unlike machines, the human body has the ability to regenerate by a process that takes effect when we sleep. Whether you are working construction all day, lifting weights, or just lying around the house you will still need sleep and "down time".

How much recovery you need depends on the level of stress and breakdown that your body has experienced. There are occasions where the stress and damage done to the body is so great, i.e., car crash, being set on fire, working in a concentration camp, not having sufficient fuel/nutrients/water... that you never recover and you die.

Your body has natural processes that protect you from doing this to yourself. You pass out during extreme exertion rather than push yourself until your body shuts down, i.e. die. You can't stay awake forever (your body forcing you to sleep and recover).

So no matter how hard you train, there is a given, which varies from individual to individual, amount of time in which your body has fully recovered. Otherwise that would imply that you can never recover from a hard HIT workout forever.

I would surmise that Tom Platz has experience some of the hardest most intense workout a human being has ever subjected himself to. I'm pretty sure he has recovered by now and his energy and metabolic equilibrium are at normal levels

[Fortress]

Dillet had a poor back due to genetics, nothing else. If it was due to shoulder issues it would have affected the shoulders and pecs just the same.
And I'm sure the shoulder issues weren't there, at least to the same extent, earlier in his career, yet the back was always way small.
If someone has a bad bodypart it's rarely or never due to lack of "mind muscle connection". I have often made the claim that someone who is already an advanced amateur or pro never ever changes his proportions or makes a weak bodypart strong. It's pathetic seeing trainers and the clients say they are bringing up this or that bodypart, when does it ever work? Often they even post pics claiming they brought something up but you can't actually see it if you are honest. The only way something comes up is if they increased their overall size.... but then the proportions still stay the same. This is a major pet peeve of mine, like telling Dennis Wolf to bring up his lower lats - only an idiot thinks he had no lower lats due to not activating the area properly. I see these ideas by  pros and amateurs accounts on IG all day long and no one ever says it's hopeless, genes are a bitch 

Guys are going to Gold's to be trained by Charles Glass doing some stupid weird movements thinking this will change their genetic shape. It never worked and never will. You can maybe play with some site enhancements and hope it will look ok, or like I said before, just get bigger overall so you are so overwhelmingly big the judges will not care about you crappy calves or whatever. Calves are the prime example of how much genes matter - those with insane calves often never even train them, and the ones with shit calves shoot them up - soo many examples of syntholed calves; Ronnie, Dex, and half the Olympia lineup.

Milos did some insane training, hitting each muscle from 100 angles, yet he still felt he had to Synthol his arms because nothing was happening. Or  maybe his mind muscle connection was poor 

I expect some pushback on this post. Please change my mind or tell me I'm an idiot 

I’m 100 percent in agreement.

[pellius]

pellius i think alot of people do not even understand the true concept of h.i.t  they think it is maximum weight and just moving a weight up and down, but it is not, i have some of mikes training videos he filmed with gmv video, he did very slow contractions. you shouldnt waste your time trying to explain to some morons on here, what h.i.t is  they do not have the brain capacity to understand it

LOL! I wish I read your post before I replied to pamith.

[pellius]

I’m 100 percent in agreement.

Van B is the only person here whom if I find I disagree with my first thought is that I must be missing something and always seek clarification because my default position with him is that he's probably right and I have over looked or not been aware of some pertinent factor.

But he's going to get an argument.

[Fortress]

Over training, is a form of stress in which you exceed you body's recuperative abiity. Just being alive requires metabolic support in which there is a cost. A cost in energy and what is loosely called "wear and tear". Even if you do no training at all, in fact, even if you just sit around all day, you are still using energy and cellular resources that cause varying degrees of "wear and tear." Unlike machines, the human body has the ability to regenerate by a process that takes effect when we sleep. Whether you are working construction all day, lifting weights, or just lying around the house you will still need sleep and "down time".

How much recovery you need depends on the level of stress and breakdown that your body has experienced. There are occasions where the stress and damage done to the body is so great, i.e., car crash, being set on fire, working in a concentration camp, not having sufficient fuel/nutrients/water... that you never recover and you die.

Your body has natural processes that protect you from doing this to yourself. You pass out during extreme exertion rather than push yourself until your body shuts down, i.e. die. You can't stay awake forever (your body forcing you to sleep and recover).

So no matter how hard you train, there is a given, which varies from individual to individual, amount of time in which your body has fully recovered. Otherwise that would imply that you can never recover from a hard HIT workout forever.

I would surmise that Tom Platz has experience some of the hardest most intense workout a human being has ever subjected himself to. I'm pretty sure he has recovered by now and his energy and metabolic equilibrium are at normal levels

“Being set on fire”

 

[pellius]

“Being set on fire”

 

A person a few days ago was stuck in a burning building but though they got him out alive that injuries he suffered from the burns was too much and he dies within 12 hours.

It was just a random thought that came into my mind when thinking of random examples.

[Bevo]

Dillet had a poor back due to genetics, nothing else. If it was due to shoulder issues it would have affected the shoulders and pecs just the same.
And I'm sure the shoulder issues weren't there, at least to the same extent, earlier in his career, yet the back was always way small.
If someone has a bad bodypart it's rarely or never due to lack of "mind muscle connection". I have often made the claim that someone who is already an advanced amateur or pro never ever changes his proportions or makes a weak bodypart strong. It's pathetic seeing trainers and the clients say they are bringing up this or that bodypart, when does it ever work? Often they even post pics claiming they brought something up but you can't actually see it if you are honest. The only way something comes up is if they increased their overall size.... but then the proportions still stay the same. This is a major pet peeve of mine, like telling Dennis Wolf to bring up his lower lats - only an idiot thinks he had no lower lats due to not activating the area properly. I see these ideas by  pros and amateurs accounts on IG all day long and no one ever says it's hopeless, genes are a bitch 

Guys are going to Gold's to be trained by Charles Glass doing some stupid weird movements thinking this will change their genetic shape. It never worked and never will. You can maybe play with some site enhancements and hope it will look ok, or like I said before, just get bigger overall so you are so overwhelmingly big the judges will not care about you crappy calves or whatever. Calves are the prime example of how much genes matter - those with insane calves often never even train them, and the ones with shit calves shoot them up - soo many examples of syntholed calves; Ronnie, Dex, and half the Olympia lineup.

Milos did some insane training, hitting each muscle from 100 angles, yet he still felt he had to Synthol his arms because nothing was happening. Or  maybe his mind muscle connection was poor 

I expect some pushback on this post. Please change my mind or tell me I'm an idiot 

One of the only top pros I can think of that made dramatic gains and brought up his “weak points” was flex Lewis. When he turned pro, his chest, back and even shoulders (lesser degree) were weak. Yes, he did gain major size, as in most pros, but his weak areas improved very noticeably, and he’s much better than he was when he was an amateur which is rare. No gut either

But most don’t really make improvements, they gain lots of mass but their gut also protrudes and they look much worse. Flex wheeler, kuclo, Dennis Wolfe, Nasser, Ruhl, branch, Many others,  all look much worse later on

[joswift]

Dillet had a poor back due to genetics, nothing else. If it was due to shoulder issues it would have affected the shoulders and pecs just the same.
And I'm sure the shoulder issues weren't there, at least to the same extent, earlier in his career, yet the back was always way small.
If someone has a bad bodypart it's rarely or never due to lack of "mind muscle connection". I have often made the claim that someone who is already an advanced amateur or pro never ever changes his proportions or makes a weak bodypart strong. It's pathetic seeing trainers and the clients say they are bringing up this or that bodypart, when does it ever work? Often they even post pics claiming they brought something up but you can't actually see it if you are honest. The only way something comes up is if they increased their overall size.... but then the proportions still stay the same. This is a major pet peeve of mine, like telling Dennis Wolf to bring up his lower lats - only an idiot thinks he had no lower lats due to not activating the area properly. I see these ideas by  pros and amateurs accounts on IG all day long and no one ever says it's hopeless, genes are a bitch 

Guys are going to Gold's to be trained by Charles Glass doing some stupid weird movements thinking this will change their genetic shape. It never worked and never will. You can maybe play with some site enhancements and hope it will look ok, or like I said before, just get bigger overall so you are so overwhelmingly big the judges will not care about you crappy calves or whatever. Calves are the prime example of how much genes matter - those with insane calves often never even train them, and the ones with shit calves shoot them up - soo many examples of syntholed calves; Ronnie, Dex, and half the Olympia lineup.

Milos did some insane training, hitting each muscle from 100 angles, yet he still felt he had to Synthol his arms because nothing was happening. Or  maybe his mind muscle connection was poor 

I expect some pushback on this post. Please change my mind or tell me I'm an idiot 

I was trying to explain to some daft twat on FB that bicep peak is genetic, he kept saying that if you do DB concentration curls anyone can get peaked bicep, he then posted a pic of himself with flat biceps to validate my point

[IroNat]

The Colorado Experiment?

Complete bulls*it for marketing purposes.

[Van_Bilderass]

One of the only top pros I can think of that made dramatic gains and brought up his “weak points” was flex Lewis. When he turned pro, his chest, back and even shoulders (lesser degree) were weak. Yes, he did gain major size, as in most pros, but his weak areas improved very noticeably, and he’s much better than he was when he was an amateur which is rare. No gut either

But most don’t really make improvements, they gain lots of mass but their gut also protrudes and they look much worse. Flex wheeler, kuclo, Dennis Wolfe, Nasser, Ruhl, branch, Many others,  all look much worse later on

I was comparing the pics and it brought to mind another area bodybuilders almost never improve or change on. And that is posing. The way you hit your poses sort of gets ingrained very early on and it's almost impossible to change later, no matter how many choreographers they hire. Everyone always disagrees with me on this, but I maintain that you can't make a poor poser great, either they have this aesthetic sense or they don't. What I noticed here is how exactly the same Flex places his hands on his hips - the thumb on the right hand is slightly higher than the left thumb. Purely ingrained instinct 

I think the proportions look very similar there to me. One possible confounder is SEO use, even regular gear can change size/shape a bit if you put large amounts in say delts over long periods of time.

I was trying to explain to some daft twat on FB that bicep peak is genetic, he kept saying that if you do DB concentration curls anyone can get peaked bicep, he then posted a pic of himself with flat biceps to validate my point

It's much worse when it's someone who should know better, such as a high level competitor or trainer. I've seen someone post comparisons where someone did appear to change the shape but it's most likely that the bicep tore a bit and it bunched up more.

[Humble Narcissist]

pellius i think alot of people do not even understand the true concept of h.i.t  they think it is maximum weight and just moving a weight up and down, but it is not, i have some of mikes training videos he filmed with gmv video, he did very slow contractions. you shouldnt waste your time trying to explain to some morons on here, what h.i.t is  they do not have the brain capacity to understand it

I did it exactly as it was taught by Jones, Mentzer, etc.  I still from time to time will do HIT for a couple weeks for a break in my normal routine.  It's not that people don't understand it, but that they do.

[Van_Bilderass]

HIT as prescribed by Jones or Mentzer or even Yates
is something that just doesn't suit a lot of people, the level
of effort required is just not something a lot of people can do unless in a life or death situation. Then there are those few who prefer and enjoy it. There are a lot of great bodybuilders who never go to that type of failure, who never did and who never could be taught this type of effort. I think even Arnold said he couldn't train like Viator, he'd rather be a ski instructor in Austria if he had to train like that to be champion.
Charles Poliquin once said you'd need to be hopped up on amphetamines to be able to train like that. An exaggeration but there is a small point there. So program preference is also very genetic, it has a lot to do with genetic psychological make-up imo.

[Humble Narcissist]

HIT as prescribed by Jones or Mentzer or even Yates
is something that just doesn't suit a lot of people, the level
of effort required is just not something a lot of people can do unless in a life or death situation. Then there are those few who prefer and enjoy it. There are a lot of great bodybuilders who never go to that type of failure, who never did and who never could be taught this type of effort. I think even Arnold said he couldn't train like Viator, he'd rather be a ski instructor in Austria if he had to train like that to be champion.
Charles Poliquin once said you'd need to be hopped up on amphetamines to be able to train like that. An exaggeration but there is a small point there. So program preference is also very genetic, it has a lot to do with genetic psychological make-up imo.

A program only works if you do it.  Working out is as much, or more, psychological as it is physiological.  Jones himself went years between workouts and Mentzer was washed up in his 20's.  It never occurred to them to lighten the load a little.

[Van_Bilderass]

A program only works if you do it.  Working out is as much, or more, psychological as it is physiological.  Jones himself went years between workouts and Mentzer was washed up in his 20's.  It never occurred to them to lighten the load a little.

Absolutely, some have an all or nothing mentality. If you aren't progressing somehow what's the use? I think it depends on why you train. There can be a joy in just moving your body or feeling healthy or whatever but for some this isn't enough, just maintaining.

Although HIT is tough I think Mentzer took a rational and unemotional approach to training, he talked about those he thought were acting irrationally by spending a lot of time in a dungeon suffering for the sake of suffering when they could get the same or better gains in a fraction of the time instead.
IOW, training his way was just a means to an end.

[joswift]

HIT as prescribed by Jones or Mentzer or even Yates
is something that just doesn't suit a lot of people, the level
of effort required is just not something a lot of people can do unless in a life or death situation. Then there are those few who prefer and enjoy it. There are a lot of great bodybuilders who never go to that type of failure, who never did and who never could be taught this type of effort. I think even Arnold said he couldn't train like Viator, he'd rather be a ski instructor in Austria if he had to train like that to be champion.
Charles Poliquin once said you'd need to be hopped up on amphetamines to be able to train like that. An exaggeration but there is a small point there. So program preference is also very genetic, it has a lot to do with genetic psychological make-up imo.

Come on, its all bullshit, I have watched Dorians video, sure he trains hard, but he only does sets and reps to failure, many, many people train exactly the same way, some people just breeze through workouts and look fantastic

You lift things up you put them down, genetics decides the rest.


Take a weight and rep out until you cant do another rep, who cant do that?

[Van_Bilderass]

Come on, its all bullshit, I have watched Dorians video, sure he trains hard, but he only does sets and reps to failure, many, many people train exactly the same way, some people just breeze through workouts and look fantastic

You lift things up you put them down, genetics decides the rest.


Take a weight and rep out until you cant do another rep, who cant do that?

I agree that Dorian didn't do anything spectacular and there are a lot of people who train "harder". He was fairly weak too compared to some others. Though I would say he did put a lot more effort into the working sets than some other pros.

You can absolutely argue that perhaps some of this effort to beat your previous bests and getting really psyched isn't necessary but I do think you will probably be able to perform more work this way than if you approached a set more casually without the adrenaline dump and a rep goal in mind. Kind of like a powerlifter at a meet where the stakes are high psychologically - you will not be able to perform as well under normal circumstances.

Jordan Peters is a good example. If you aren't psyched this type of weight might not move at all.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9EyWFml4eT/?igshid=1023odzo6f54p

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2MWxAhFpwe/?igshid=1ozfys1rwmujc

If this is necessary or if it might even be counterproductive can be debated.

[Ronnie Rep]

Dillet had a poor back due to genetics, nothing else. If it was due to shoulder issues it would have affected the shoulders and pecs just the same.
And I'm sure the shoulder issues weren't there, at least to the same extent, earlier in his career, yet the back was always way small.
If someone has a bad bodypart it's rarely or never due to lack of "mind muscle connection". I have often made the claim that someone who is already an advanced amateur or pro never ever changes his proportions or makes a weak bodypart strong. It's pathetic seeing trainers and the clients say they are bringing up this or that bodypart, when does it ever work? Often they even post pics claiming they brought something up but you can't actually see it if you are honest. The only way something comes up is if they increased their overall size.... but then the proportions still stay the same. This is a major pet peeve of mine, like telling Dennis Wolf to bring up his lower lats - only an idiot thinks he had no lower lats due to not activating the area properly. I see these ideas by  pros and amateurs accounts on IG all day long and no one ever says it's hopeless, genes are a bitch 

Guys are going to Gold's to be trained by Charles Glass doing some stupid weird movements thinking this will change their genetic shape. It never worked and never will. You can maybe play with some site enhancements and hope it will look ok, or like I said before, just get bigger overall so you are so overwhelmingly big the judges will not care about you crappy calves or whatever. Calves are the prime example of how much genes matter - those with insane calves often never even train them, and the ones with shit calves shoot them up - soo many examples of syntholed calves; Ronnie, Dex, and half the Olympia lineup.

Milos did some insane training, hitting each muscle from 100 angles, yet he still felt he had to Synthol his arms because nothing was happening. Or  maybe his mind muscle connection was poor 

I expect some pushback on this post. Please change my mind or tell me I'm an idiot 

QFT!

[joswift]

I agree that Dorian didn't do anything spectacular and there are a lot of people who train "harder". He was fairly weak too compared to some others. Though I would say he did put a lot more effort into the working sets than some other pros.

You can absolutely argue that perhaps some of this effort to beat your previous bests and getting really psyched isn't necessary but I do think you will probably be able to perform more work this way than if you approached a set more casually without the adrenaline dump and a rep goal in mind. Kind of like a powerlifter at a meet where the stakes are high psychologically - you will not be able to perform as well under normal circumstances.

Jordan Peters is a good example. If you aren't psyched this type of weight might not move at all.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9EyWFml4eT/?igshid=1023odzo6f54p

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2MWxAhFpwe/?igshid=1ozfys1rwmujc

If this is necessary or if it might even be counterproductive can be debated.

looked like he had another rep in the hacks

[Van_Bilderass]

looked like he had another rep in the hacks

Haha maybe 

One interesting thing I've noticed is that rarely do you actually see someone fail on the angled leg press, so most of the time there's still reps in the tank. Of course it's way more draining to go to failure on quads vs biceps for example. That and the possibility you get crushed and crippled for life 

[pellius]

One of the only top pros I can think of that made dramatic gains and brought up his “weak points” was flex Lewis. When he turned pro, his chest, back and even shoulders (lesser degree) were weak. Yes, he did gain major size, as in most pros, but his weak areas improved very noticeably, and he’s much better than he was when he was an amateur which is rare. No gut either

But most don’t really make improvements, they gain lots of mass but their gut also protrudes and they look much worse. Flex wheeler, kuclo, Dennis Wolfe, Nasser, Ruhl, branch, Many others,  all look much worse later on

The chest improvement was quite dramatic. Sure he got bigger everywhere else but not nearly to the extent that his chest did.

You know, I remember him explaining this to his training partner during one of is videos and what he did to improve it. I dismissed it as typical bber b.s. as it's all genetics and drugs. Now, I wish I paid attention

[pellius]

I was trying to explain to some daft twat on FB that bicep peak is genetic, he kept saying that if you do DB concentration curls anyone can get peaked bicep, he then posted a pic of himself with flat biceps to validate my point

If only Levrone did concentration curls, especially if he "squeezed" at the top.

[pellius]

The Colorado Experiment?

Complete bulls*it for marketing purposes.

And you were there.

They moved all that equipment from Florida to Colorado. Huge machines that cost a fortune to ship so they could avoid the accusation of bias conducting the experiment on their own facility and  employed the services of independent observer Dr. Eliot Pleas who had no bias one way of another all for marketing.

[pellius]

HIT as prescribed by Jones or Mentzer or even Yates
is something that just doesn't suit a lot of people, the level
of effort required is just not something a lot of people can do unless in a life or death situation. Then there are those few who prefer and enjoy it. There are a lot of great bodybuilders who never go to that type of failure, who never did and who never could be taught this type of effort. I think even Arnold said he couldn't train like Viator, he'd rather be a ski instructor in Austria if he had to train like that to be champion.
Charles Poliquin once said you'd need to be hopped up on amphetamines to be able to train like that. An exaggeration but there is a small point there. So program preference is also very genetic, it has a lot to do with genetic psychological make-up imo.

I'm in my sixties and have been training HIT for decades. Force reps, drop sets, negatives, pre-exhaust.... I do it not so much for muscle hypertrophy. I've realize that how your muscles respond is primarily genetic no matter how you train. I do it because I was involved in sports and wanted to develop and be accustomed to pain, exhaustion, and physical stress. I felt it got me in better physical shape and developed a toughness that can prove useful in an individual contact sport. When I would reach positive failure, when I couldn't do another complete rep by myself, then in my mind that is when the set begins. I still often  say that to myself while training. When I can't quite complete the rep and have to resort to force reps or partials or drop sets I would actually say that to myself, "And now it begins"

I've been able to endure it and remain consistent by modifying frequency. Resting more between sessions. Also, having to do just one set to failure you don't have that tendency to "save yourself" for future sets. This is your one and only chance.

When I use to do a more traditional program I would get burnt out, get into a rut, having to train everyday regardless of intensity. Just going everyday gets to be a grind.

[IroNat]

And you were there.

They moved all that equipment from Florida to Colorado. Huge machines that cost a fortune to ship so they could avoid the accusation of bias conducting the experiment on their own facility and  employed the services of independent observer Dr. Eliot Pleas who had no bias one way of another all for marketing.

Pellius,

You are a smart man.

Read up on the BS of the Colorado Experiment.

Clever marketing by Jones.  Otherwise complete bullcrap.

As far as moving equipment, they were marketing the equipment to colleges all over the country and it was done at Colorado State University.

The experiment was done only on Viator and Jones himself and never successfully repeated by anyone.  Isn't that a bit odd?

Viator had previously been ill, off drugs, and Jones then encouraged him to lose even more weight so he could have a huge rebound in his bodyweight.

This is not to say training on Nautilus machines has no value.  They are excellent machines.  What has to be said is that no "miracle" occurred through their use.  Viator could have made similar gains using free weights eating the same and using his usual drug cocktail.