How to get big and strong without drugs

[IroNat]

Doug Hepburn

[IroNat]

Steve Stanko and John Grimek.

[IroNat]

Don't compare yourself with drugged up bodybuilders if you are natty.

[IroNat]

John Henry Davis (January 12, 1921 – July 13, 1984) was an American heavyweight weightlifter. Between 1938 and 1953 he was undefeated, winning two Olympic, six world and 12 national titles, and set 16 ratified world records: seven in the snatch, four in the clean and jerk, two in the press and three in the total.

[IroNat]

 Funk,  Do you believe Ditillo was natural?  I don't. However, he wrote an interesting article about strength without drugs.  See below.

[IroNat]

Strength Training Without Drugs - Anthony Ditillo https://ditillo2.blogspot.com/2009/09/strenght-training-without-drugs-anthony.html?m=1

[Humble Narcissist]

Strength Training Without Drugs - Anthony Ditillo https://ditillo2.blogspot.com/2009/09/strenght-training-without-drugs-anthony.html?m=1

Jeez, that's a lot of volume.

[IroNat]

Jeez, that's a lot of volume.

Hard to believe anyone could recover from that.

Ditillo recommends starting with the following routine which is 14 work sets for the shoulders and 21 work sets for either thighs or pulls.  35 sets total which is quite a bit.  Plus you are pressing everyday. 

>

"For someone who is interested in embracing this mode of training I would advise you to pick
three movements for the thighs, three movements for the back and three movements for the
shoulders.

Work your shoulders six days per week, two movements per day, ten sets of each.
Thigh work is done with three movements per workout, ten sets of each. The same is done with
the Pulls.

Make the first three sets progressively heavier for warmup, then jump to a weight you can get
from between 3 and 5 reps with and perform 7 sets with this weight. When these 7 sets can be
done for 5 reps each, it is time to add 10 or 20 lbs. to the bar and begin once again.

Stay with this workload until one or two things happen: either you can get 7 sets of 5 with a weight, but
CAN'T seem to increase the bar in order to begin the routine once again with heavier weight, OR
you simply are NOT responding physically (muscle size or density increase) to the workload
though your body IS recuperating.

When this happens, here's what you should do:
Go to FOUR squatting movements and FOUR pulling movements done three times per week and
THREE pressing movements done six days per week, for 10 sets of 3 to 5 reps per exercise, OR
keep the original number of movements per exercise and body area but raise the number of sets
per movement from 10 to 15!

Yes, I know. This sounds like a lot of hard work. Well, it is. If you STILL wish to emulate the men
you have been reading about, then you will HAVE to work like two men in order to go to the
limits of your natural potential and this will take up MUCH of your training time AND physical and
mental energy.

I am NOT going to tell you a fairy tale about 5 sets of this and 3 sets of that, and
have you think it takes two hours per day three days per week to look like David Shaw or
Kazmaier.

In order to look like these men and develop great strength you are going to have to
almost LIVE in a gym. And even then, you will go no further than your genetics will allow you to.
And when you come to this particular point, you will be faced with a basic dilemma which most
advanced trainers face at one time or another in their careers: "I have no more spare time to
give to my training, so without increasing the workload how do I continue to gain?"

The answer is, you don't! You have reached your feasible peak, all things taken into consideration, and
you've gone as far as you're going to. But you'll NEVER even get to this point if you don't
gradually increase your workload as time goes by."

[Humble Narcissist]

Hard to believe anyone could recover from that.

Ditillo recommends starting with the following routine which is 14 work sets for the shoulders and 21 work sets for either thighs or pulls.  35 sets total which is quite a bit.  Plus you are pressing everyday. 

>

"For someone who is interested in embracing this mode of training I would advise you to pick
three movements for the thighs, three movements for the back and three movements for the
shoulders.

Work your shoulders six days per week, two movements per day, ten sets of each.
Thigh work is done with three movements per workout, ten sets of each. The same is done with
the Pulls.

Make the first three sets progressively heavier for warmup, then jump to a weight you can get
from between 3 and 5 reps with and perform 7 sets with this weight. When these 7 sets can be
done for 5 reps each, it is time to add 10 or 20 lbs. to the bar and begin once again.

Stay with this workload until one or two things happen: either you can get 7 sets of 5 with a weight, but
CAN'T seem to increase the bar in order to begin the routine once again with heavier weight, OR
you simply are NOT responding physically (muscle size or density increase) to the workload
though your body IS recuperating.

When this happens, here's what you should do:
Go to FOUR squatting movements and FOUR pulling movements done three times per week and
THREE pressing movements done six days per week, for 10 sets of 3 to 5 reps per exercise, OR
keep the original number of movements per exercise and body area but raise the number of sets
per movement from 10 to 15!

Yes, I know. This sounds like a lot of hard work. Well, it is. If you STILL wish to emulate the men
you have been reading about, then you will HAVE to work like two men in order to go to the
limits of your natural potential and this will take up MUCH of your training time AND physical and
mental energy.

I am NOT going to tell you a fairy tale about 5 sets of this and 3 sets of that, and
have you think it takes two hours per day three days per week to look like David Shaw or
Kazmaier.

In order to look like these men and develop great strength you are going to have to
almost LIVE in a gym. And even then, you will go no further than your genetics will allow you to.
And when you come to this particular point, you will be faced with a basic dilemma which most
advanced trainers face at one time or another in their careers: "I have no more spare time to
give to my training, so without increasing the workload how do I continue to gain?"

The answer is, you don't! You have reached your feasible peak, all things taken into consideration, and
you've gone as far as you're going to. But you'll NEVER even get to this point if you don't
gradually increase your workload as time goes by."

That workout would be boring as hell to do everyday.

[Marty Champions]

Totally gassed after 4 sets of max reps on anything

[escrima]

Hard to believe anyone could recover from that.

Ditillo recommends starting with the following routine which is 14 work sets for the shoulders and 21 work sets for either thighs or pulls.  35 sets total which is quite a bit. Plus you are pressing everyday. 

>

"For someone who is interested in embracing this mode of training I would advise you to pick
three movements for the thighs, three movements for the back and three movements for the
shoulders.

Work your shoulders six days per week, two movements per day, ten sets of each.
Thigh work is done with three movements per workout, ten sets of each. The same is done with
the Pulls.

Make the first three sets progressively heavier for warmup, then jump to a weight you can get
from between 3 and 5 reps with and perform 7 sets with this weight. When these 7 sets can be
done for 5 reps each, it is time to add 10 or 20 lbs. to the bar and begin once again.

Stay with this workload until one or two things happen: either you can get 7 sets of 5 with a weight, but
CAN'T seem to increase the bar in order to begin the routine once again with heavier weight, OR
you simply are NOT responding physically (muscle size or density increase) to the workload
though your body IS recuperating.

When this happens, here's what you should do:
Go to FOUR squatting movements and FOUR pulling movements done three times per week and
THREE pressing movements done six days per week, for 10 sets of 3 to 5 reps per exercise, OR
keep the original number of movements per exercise and body area but raise the number of sets
per movement from 10 to 15!

Yes, I know. This sounds like a lot of hard work. Well, it is. If you STILL wish to emulate the men
you have been reading about, then you will HAVE to work like two men in order to go to the
limits of your natural potential and this will take up MUCH of your training time AND physical and
mental energy.

I am NOT going to tell you a fairy tale about 5 sets of this and 3 sets of that, and
have you think it takes two hours per day three days per week to look like David Shaw or
Kazmaier.

In order to look like these men and develop great strength you are going to have to
almost LIVE in a gym. And even then, you will go no further than your genetics will allow you to.
And when you come to this particular point, you will be faced with a basic dilemma which most
advanced trainers face at one time or another in their careers: "I have no more spare time to
give to my training, so without increasing the workload how do I continue to gain?"

The answer is, you don't! You have reached your feasible peak, all things taken into consideration, and
you've gone as far as you're going to. But you'll NEVER even get to this point if you don't
gradually increase your workload as time goes by."

does not sound healthy
might get away with it for a very short period, have seen routines where you work muscle groups every day
but as wrote not for long term training

[Griffith]

does not sound healthy
might get away with it for a very short period, have seen routines where you work muscle groups every day
but as wrote not for long term training

Having to basically 'live in the gym' and train for hours every day is simply not realistic.

[BB]

Ditillo's lifestyle made it possible to train that way. I knew a guy that knew him a little in NJ, and he mentioned that Ditillo's main job was running the family diner in Elizabeth that was close to his house, and he kept a rack and some equipment in a backroom, and he'd use it to get extra work in.

His mentor was Dezso Ban, who was an Olympic Lifter for Hungary, circa late 40's, early 50's. So a lot of his philosophies were based in that sort of keep grinding till you give out mindset.

The actual Dezso Ban -

.

I do remember Ditillo mentioning in an article that he flirted with "Growth Drugs" a little, but he didn't really go into it.

----------------------------

Dezso Ban's obit (May 10, 1930 - Oct. 24, 2013) -

Dezso Ban, 83, passed away on Oct. 24, 2013, at Pocono Medical Center in East Stroudsburg.

He was born in Budapest, Hungary, on May 10, 1930, son of the late Mihaly and Julia Banlaki. Dezso was the loving husband of Susan (Alcorn) Ban. They celebrated their 15th wedding anniversary on May 11, 2013.

Dezso served in two armies in Hungary, worked as a butcher, and most important to him, became an elite Olympic weight lifter before emigrating to the U.S. in 1956.

He received his bachelor’s degree in physics from Seton Hall University in 1978, and his master’s degree in physics from Fairleigh Dickinson University in 1983. He had an extensive reading interest in linguistics, mathematics and physics, and his love of weight lifting persisted throughout his life.

He had worked in the research laboratories at Exxon Research and Engineering in Linden and Clinton, N.J., for more than 26 years until retiring in 1996.

We have been blessed with the presence of Dezso in our lives. He will be deeply missed by his loving wife , Susan, of Kunkletown; stepdaughter, Amanda DeMontigny and husband, Thomas, of Whitman, Mass.; sister, Julia Szakos of Hungary; stepgrandson, Forrest J. Harrison of Providence, R.I.; and godson, Anthony Ditillo and wife, Elaina, of Summit, N.J. .

(Just posting it, so it doesn't get lost.)

[Marty Champions]

1)Get as lean as possible to help insulin sensitivity...your not going to gain as much if you start out fat.
2) then start eating a super surplus
3) lift as heavy for as many sets and reps as you can..don’t limit yourself.
4) don’t plan days off from the gym
5) actually do cardio...it’s boring as hell but teaches you how to stay the course no matter how bad it sucks.

Bench

very hard to get very lean on a food surplus, cardio would have to be absolute necessary

Waiting to get lean first to eat a super surplus is point nulled. You can retain leaness if eating never changes, just have to do a life of cardio, while blacks can sip pepsi and tea and get ripped

[Humble Narcissist]

Ditillo's lifestyle made it possible to train that way. I knew a guy that knew him a little in NJ, and he mentioned that Ditillo's main job was running the family diner in Elizabeth that was close to his house, and he kept a rack and some equipment in a backroom, and he'd use it to get extra work in.

His mentor was Dezso Ban, who was an Olympic Lifter for Hungary, circa late 40's, early 50's. So a lot of his philosophies were based in that sort of keep grinding till you give out mindset.

The actual Dezso Ban -

.

I do remember Ditillo mentioning in an article that he flirted with "Growth Drugs" a little, but he didn't really go into it.

----------------------------

Dezso Ban's obit (May 10, 1930 - Oct. 24, 2013) -

Dezso Ban, 83, passed away on Oct. 24, 2013, at Pocono Medical Center in East Stroudsburg.

He was born in Budapest, Hungary, on May 10, 1930, son of the late Mihaly and Julia Banlaki. Dezso was the loving husband of Susan (Alcorn) Ban. They celebrated their 15th wedding anniversary on May 11, 2013.

Dezso served in two armies in Hungary, worked as a butcher, and most important to him, became an elite Olympic weight lifter before emigrating to the U.S. in 1956.

He received his bachelor’s degree in physics from Seton Hall University in 1978, and his master’s degree in physics from Fairleigh Dickinson University in 1983. He had an extensive reading interest in linguistics, mathematics and physics, and his love of weight lifting persisted throughout his life.

He had worked in the research laboratories at Exxon Research and Engineering in Linden and Clinton, N.J., for more than 26 years until retiring in 1996.

We have been blessed with the presence of Dezso in our lives. He will be deeply missed by his loving wife , Susan, of Kunkletown; stepdaughter, Amanda DeMontigny and husband, Thomas, of Whitman, Mass.; sister, Julia Szakos of Hungary; stepgrandson, Forrest J. Harrison of Providence, R.I.; and godson, Anthony Ditillo and wife, Elaina, of Summit, N.J. .

(Just posting it, so it doesn't get lost.)

Great website:

http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/

[escrima]

Great website:

http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/

Nice rounded back on what looks like a Deadlift
these old school guys were good but remember things advance. bad & good

[Humble Narcissist]

Doug Hepburn

Damn, that dude was huge.  Lived till mid 70's as well.

[lightweight83]

You can't look like a steroid guy if you don't use steroids.

No doubt about it.

Some guys that use steroids don't even look like steroid guys.

I used to believe that and say it all the time, until I got into corrections and saw some of the cons in there.  Now obviously some of them could be getting roids in there, but I highly doubt of them are. 
With that said, nearly all of them are dindus, and probably weigh between 210-225, but look bigger than 90% of your typical juicers. 

[Humble Narcissist]

I used to believe that and say it all the time, until I got into corrections and saw some of the cons in there.  Now obviously some of them could be getting roids in there, but I highly doubt of them are. 
With that said, nearly all of them are dindus, and probably weigh between 210-225, but look bigger than 90% of your typical juicers.

I knew a Haitian in college that was 4'11 and had a bodybuilders physique doing nothing but pushups and situps (thousands a day).  If he just did bodyweight squats and developed his legs I'm convinced he could have won any state or regional title in bodybuilding.

[benchmstr]

very hard to get very lean on a food surplus, cardio would have to be absolute necessary

Waiting to get lean first to eat a super surplus is point nulled. You can retain leaness if eating never changes, just have to do a life of cardio, while blacks can sip pepsi and tea and get ripped

It’s waaay easier to gain muscle when you start out super lean.

That’s why the Hebrews your talking about gain easier...because they start out looking like black hawk down.

Bench

[oldtimer1]

I used to believe that and say it all the time, until I got into corrections and saw some of the cons in there.  Now obviously some of them could be getting roids in there, but I highly doubt of them are. 
With that said, nearly all of them are dindus, and probably weigh between 210-225, but look bigger than 90% of your typical juicers.

I was a Corrections Officer for a brief two years almost 40 years ago at a max prison. I know many think they know about prisons but the crazy things I heard about prisons is bull shit. Here are few. There is honor among criminals and they hate sex offenders. Nope, they couldn't care less. Drugs are all over the place. Nope it's extremely rare. Corrections knows every trick of how they get drugs in there. Here's one I've heard from guys that never have set foot in prison. They have steroids all over the place. They are stripped naked. Told to bend over and open their ass cheeks many times a month. Their cells are searched on a regular basis.

Getting back to the lifters there. The physiques were amazing. Ripped and large. Maybe not steroid bloated large but seriously impressive. One little white guy was about 5'5".  He was ripped with amazing abs. Striations in his chest. He said the minute he leaves prison he goes back to drinking and drugs on the streets. He said I don't look like this on the outside. He got three meals a day. Plenty of sleep and all day to train. Seen another guy weighing about 180lbs do a deep squat with 700lbs. He had no idea about training. He just trained hard. He was doing life. I wonder if he died there or was eventually released? In NJ life means about 35 years in prison.

[oldtimer1]

It’s waaay easier to gain muscle when you start out super lean.

That’s why the Hebrews your talking about gain easier...because they start out looking like black hawk down.

Bench
[/quote

Being chubby is never a good look. Guys think they look good in their 3xxl shirt but when they look big but when they take it off the truth is revealed.

[Humble Narcissist]

I was a Corrections Officer for a brief two years almost 40 years ago at a max prison. I know many think they know about prisons but the crazy things I heard about prisons is bull shit. Here are few. There is honor among criminals and they hate sex offenders. Nope, they couldn't care less. Drugs are all over the place. Nope it's extremely rare. Corrections knows every trick of how they get drugs in there. Here's one I've heard from guys that never have set foot in prison. They have steroids all over the place. They are stripped naked. Told to bend over and open their ass cheeks many times a month. Their cells are searched on a regular basis.

Getting back to the lifters there. The physiques were amazing. Ripped and large. Maybe not steroid bloated large but seriously impressive. One little white guy was about 5'5".  He was ripped with amazing abs. Striations in his chest. He said the minute he leaves prison he goes back to drinking and drugs on the streets. He said I don't look like this on the outside. He got three meals a day. Plenty of sleep and all day to train. Seen another guy weighing about 180lbs do a deep squat with 700lbs. He had no idea about training. He just trained hard. He was doing life. I wonder if he died there or was eventually released? In NJ life means about 35 years in prison.

This is the truth.  Whenever some sex offender gets convicted people say that he will be killed in prison, ten years later, he's released without a scratch on him.  It makes people feel good thinking these guys are going to be tortured in prison when the reality is they are just bored most of the time.

[IroNat]

I hope those guys in prison take a day off between workouts so they don't overtrain.

[Henda]

This is the truth.  Whenever some sex offender gets convicted people say that he will be killed in prison, ten years later, he's released without a scratch on him.  It makes people feel good thinking these guys are going to be tortured in prison when the reality is they are just bored most of the time.

I think saying that stems from The days before the nonces were kept separate for their Own protection, during the strangeway riot/protest in 1990 some inmates used the opportunity to break into the pedo/rapist wing, one Sex offender died from his injuries, rumours that several were forcibly castrated were Later denied