Author Topic: Ginsburg dead  (Read 10021 times)

Pray_4_War

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #75 on: September 20, 2020, 10:11:33 AM »
I heard the Democrats plan to pack the Supreme Court a soon as they are able to (May God forbid it).

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #76 on: September 20, 2020, 11:00:13 AM »
I heard the Democrats plan to pack the Supreme Court a soon as they are able to (May God forbid it).
Yep, and this will start a shitshow every 8 years when the new party in power will just add Supreme Court justices.  Eventually will have a hundred judges on the court.

Pray_4_War

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #77 on: September 20, 2020, 11:38:08 AM »
Yep, and this will start a shitshow every 8 years when the new party in power will just add Supreme Court justices.  Eventually will have a hundred judges on the court.

This country is quickly becoming a banana republic.  The Democrats are causing it with their evil schemes and the Republicans are enabling it with their weakness and incompetence.

Trump is one of a tiny handful of people in Washington that are worth a shit.  Most of them are selling our country out to enrich themselves and they are willing to burn the whole thing down to get their way.

If there was anyplace better or more free to run to I'd seriously consider bailing on this sinking ship.

Vince G, CSN MFT

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #78 on: September 20, 2020, 11:41:18 AM »
As if.

Now think, no...Really think about this Count Chocula (or do you prefer Count Cucula or Count Cocula or maybe Frankenferry?):

"Pick a card.  Any card.   Is this your card?

Think.  I'm bettin' you pick the "race" card.  Again.

Oh, by the way...It's called writing.  Typist.

Shut the fuck up you porridge wog.  I didnt ask you to respond Groundskeeper Willie
A

avxo

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #79 on: September 20, 2020, 12:08:48 PM »
My fervent wish is that people in government would stop clinging to their power until they fucking die of old age.

So then you support term and/or maximum age limits?

Pray_4_War

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #80 on: September 20, 2020, 12:19:05 PM »
So then you support term and/or maximum age limits?

No question.  We can all debate what the limits should be, but I'm completely against lifetime appointments.

avxo

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #81 on: September 20, 2020, 12:19:29 PM »
The dumb bitch Sotomayor said that a judge's job is to legislate from the bench.

Excuse me?

A judge's job is to ENFORCE LAW, WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THOSE LAWS OR NOT.  It is up to lawmakers/legislators to actually change the laws.

Whether those laws are fair or not.  A good Supreme Court judge [or good judge, period] will enforce the laws as written.

Sounds like someone skipped civics class: a key role of the judiciary is to interpet the law. On top of that, Courts, and especially the Supreme Court, have the power of judicial review. See Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. 137, all the way back from 1803 for the implications of that.

avxo

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #82 on: September 20, 2020, 12:21:01 PM »
No question.  We can all debate what the limits should be, but I'm completely against lifetime appointments.

I’m with you on that.

avxo

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #83 on: September 20, 2020, 12:23:43 PM »
I heard the Democrats plan to pack the Supreme Court a soon as they are able to (May God forbid it).

I’d be fine with expanding the Supreme Court to, say, 15 provided that each case drew a random lot of 7 Justices and the decision was final with no possibility of an en banc rehearing.

Pray_4_War

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #84 on: September 20, 2020, 12:26:04 PM »
I’d be fine with expanding the Supreme Court to, say, 15 provided that each case drew a random lot of 7 Justices and the decision was final with no possibility of an en banc rehearing.


avxo

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #85 on: September 20, 2020, 12:36:32 PM »


Fair enough but why?

If the concern is packing the Court, the random lot provision should prevent an attempt at packing from being effective. In fact having random lots would make it very tricky for any side to manipulate the Court by pushing cases for cert at a time that’s beneficial to them (that is when they feel they have a majority. It’s simple math, really: 7 random members from a 15 member pool translates to 6,435 distinct panels.

The random lot process also means that the Court will be able to avoid cases where the absence of a single Justice could mean a tie.

You could have a total of 13 Justices (one for each Court of Appeals) and have their terms set to expire so that one seat opens up per year, naturally forcing a rotation.

BB

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #86 on: September 20, 2020, 12:40:41 PM »
RBG wanted 9, thought 9 was the optimal number.

Video from her NPR interview here - https://twitter.com/SteveGuest/status/1307395289960132611 .

Pray_4_War

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #87 on: September 20, 2020, 12:59:14 PM »
Fair enough but why?

If the concern is packing the Court, the random lot provision should prevent an attempt at packing from being effective. In fact having random lots would make it very tricky for any side to manipulate the Court by pushing cases for cert at a time that’s beneficial to them (that is when they feel they have a majority. It’s simple math, really: 7 random members from a 15 member pool translates to 6,435 distinct panels.

The random lot process also means that the Court will be able to avoid cases where the absence of a single Justice could mean a tie.

You could have a total of 13 Justices (one for each Court of Appeals) and have their terms set to expire so that one seat opens up per year, naturally forcing a rotation.

I haven't fully researched or considered this idea so take this with a grain of salt.......but my initial reaction is that you would end up with highly inconsistent rulings. 

avxo

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #88 on: September 20, 2020, 02:00:31 PM »
I haven't fully researched or considered this idea so take this with a grain of salt.......but my initial reaction is that you would end up with highly inconsistent rulings.

That’s not an unreasonable concern, but then again are existing decisions “consistent”? And, really, do we care for consistency or do we care for good, objective and unbiased decisions?

Consider the situation we’re in right now. Assume Trump manages to appoint someone and the Court’s majority becomes a consistent 6-3 and that holds for, say, a decade. People who believe the current Court favors their positions will push to have cases heard by the Court, in the hopes for a favorable outcome.

Don’t think of this in terms of your specific political beliefs. Ask yourself if you’d feel differently if the new Justice was someone so liberal that it made RBG seem ideologically close to Antonin Scalia, and the addition would cement a 6-3 majority.

A random panel, selected from a larger pool, would make it more difficult for that to happen, which is always a good thing, in my opinion..

chaos

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #89 on: September 20, 2020, 02:09:13 PM »
No political position should be for life, elected or appointed. Neither should their pay.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Pray_4_War

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #90 on: September 20, 2020, 02:23:11 PM »
That’s not an unreasonable concern, but then again are existing decisions “consistent”? And, really, do we care for consistency or do we care for good, objective and unbiased decisions?

Consider the situation we’re in right now. Assume Trump manages to appoint someone and the Court’s majority becomes a consistent 6-3 and that holds for, say, a decade. People who believe the current Court favors their positions will push to have cases heard by the Court, in the hopes for a favorable outcome.

Don’t think of this in terms of your specific political beliefs. Ask yourself if you’d feel differently if the new Justice was someone so liberal that it made RBG seem ideologically close to Antonin Scalia, and the addition would cement a 6-3 majority.

A random panel, selected from a larger pool, would make it more difficult for that to happen, which is always a good thing, in my opinion..

Here's the problem as I see it with the court.  We have radical judges that disregard the Constitution.  They don't want to interpret the law, they want to legislate from the bench.  They consider things like international law in their opinions.  The role of the court is pretty clear but like everything it's now been politicized up the ass (mostly by Democrats).  There's a lot I could say on this topic but I'm not sure this is the place or if I would even want to.  In simple terms, I want originalist judges on the court which in my opinion is the only thing that makes sense.  I have no idea why someone would want international law or modern societal interpretations guiding decisions.  To me it's insane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Originalism

The Scott

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #91 on: September 20, 2020, 03:02:30 PM »
Shut the fuck up you porridge wog.  I didnt ask you to respond Groundskeeper Willie

You’d catfish yourself.  You are gonna have to think hard on that one, Count Cucula.

avxo

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #92 on: September 20, 2020, 03:35:00 PM »
Here's the problem as I see it with the court.  We have radical judges that disregard the Constitution.

Genuine question: Can you provide a specific instance of a Judge explicitly disregarding the Constitution?

They don't want to interpret the law, they want to legislate from the bench.  They consider things like international law in their opinions.

I’d need to know more about the specific instances you are concerned with; it’s possibly relevant to consider things like International law if such law is part of a treaty that the U.S. has ratified; see of Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution for more on this.

Also note that the Constitution imposes few restrictions on the Supreme Court and how it is to interpret laws.

I also find it amusing to suggest that using international law is, somehow, abhorrent, when so much of our legal system and jurisprudence is based on English common law and has been adopted by the early Court.

The role of the court is pretty clear but like everything it's now been politicized up the ass (mostly by Democrats).

If it’s pretty clear, perhaps you could tell us, in your own words, what it is?

As for politicization, the Court has, sadly, been politicized and the Republicans are just as guilty as the Democrats are. No better proof of that exists than the flip-flopping that Mitch McConnell, Lindsay Graham and company are now engaged in: holding up the Garland nomination because of the upcoming election was their “sacred duty” then, so the “People” could get a say; now, with an election even closer, the “People” can go fuck themselves and the Senators wants to fulfill their “sacred duty” and confirm the nominee. What’s the difference? Who made the nomination. What was the deciding factor? Politics.


There's a lot I could say on this topic but I'm not sure this is the place or if I would even want to.  In simple terms, I want originalist judges on the court which in my opinion is the only thing that makes sense.  I have no idea why someone would want international law or modern societal interpretations guiding decisions.  To me it's insane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Originalism

Again, international law may be relevant to the case at hand. Remember the Court also has original jurisdiction in cases arising out of “maritime jurisdiction” which, under an Originalist interpretation, involves things the law of the High Seas, which was basically the international law of its day.

As for desire for originalism, you’ll need to be more specific. For example, is it originalism, to you, to say that the 6th Amendment affords a Defendant the right to Counsel but doesn’t explicitly require that one must be provided by the Court to defendants who cannot afford one, and the Court “invented” that right in Gideon v. Wainwright?

Do you believe it is appropriate for the Courts to decide that, say, the Fourth Amendment against searches and seizures applies to computers and data residing inside a computer by arguing that “papers and effects” applies to digital documents today just as it did to actual paper documents back in the day even though the Founders couldn’t imagine a computer or a “digital document”?

Do you believe that the originalist interpretation of the “full faith and credit” clause requires a State that doesn’t recognize same-sex marriage to accept, as married, a gay couple that was married in a State they does?

Would you favor disbanding the Air Force because, under an originalist reading of the Constitution, Congress was only empowered to create the Army and Navy? If not, why not?

I’m not trying to challenge you; I too believe that Originalism has its place in our jurisprudence and would prefer to avoid judges expanding the scope of the Constitution too much, regardless of whether they do so in a direction I approve or disapprove. However, strict originalism has its own issues and they’re serious.

The beauty of our Constitution is it’s succinctness. It doesn’t focus too much on issues of a particular time period (references to the importation of slaves aside and 1808 aside) but focuses on first principles. It’s why it has survived, relatively unaltered, for as long as it has: bevause it remains relevant.

Other countries have Constitutions spanning hundreds of pages, enumerating in excruciating detail, issues very specific to the time period in which they were written. And they’re worse for it because of that.

I’ll leave you with one last thing about originalism: the concept of judicial review itself is nowhere to be found in the Constitution, yet the early Court adopted it. I doubt you’ll find an originalist that claims that was an activist decision by the Court. Ask yourself what that means about strict originalism.


pamith

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #93 on: September 20, 2020, 05:22:56 PM »
We all die one day. This is tough.

Pray_4_War

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #94 on: September 20, 2020, 06:19:17 PM »
Genuine question: Can you provide a specific instance of a Judge explicitly disregarding the Constitution?

I’d need to know more about the specific instances you are concerned with; it’s possibly relevant to consider things like International law if such law is part of a treaty that the U.S. has ratified; see of Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution for more on this.

Also note that the Constitution imposes few restrictions on the Supreme Court and how it is to interpret laws.

I also find it amusing to suggest that using international law is, somehow, abhorrent, when so much of our legal system and jurisprudence is based on English common law and has been adopted by the early Court.

If it’s pretty clear, perhaps you could tell us, in your own words, what it is?

As for politicization, the Court has, sadly, been politicized and the Republicans are just as guilty as the Democrats are. No better proof of that exists than the flip-flopping that Mitch McConnell, Lindsay Graham and company are now engaged in: holding up the Garland nomination because of the upcoming election was their “sacred duty” then, so the “People” could get a say; now, with an election even closer, the “People” can go fuck themselves and the Senators wants to fulfill their “sacred duty” and confirm the nominee. What’s the difference? Who made the nomination. What was the deciding factor? Politics.


Again, international law may be relevant to the case at hand. Remember the Court also has original jurisdiction in cases arising out of “maritime jurisdiction” which, under an Originalist interpretation, involves things the law of the High Seas, which was basically the international law of its day.

As for desire for originalism, you’ll need to be more specific. For example, is it originalism, to you, to say that the 6th Amendment affords a Defendant the right to Counsel but doesn’t explicitly require that one must be provided by the Court to defendants who cannot afford one, and the Court “invented” that right in Gideon v. Wainwright?

Do you believe it is appropriate for the Courts to decide that, say, the Fourth Amendment against searches and seizures applies to computers and data residing inside a computer by arguing that “papers and effects” applies to digital documents today just as it did to actual paper documents back in the day even though the Founders couldn’t imagine a computer or a “digital document”?

Do you believe that the originalist interpretation of the “full faith and credit” clause requires a State that doesn’t recognize same-sex marriage to accept, as married, a gay couple that was married in a State they does?

Would you favor disbanding the Air Force because, under an originalist reading of the Constitution, Congress was only empowered to create the Army and Navy? If not, why not?

I’m not trying to challenge you; I too believe that Originalism has its place in our jurisprudence and would prefer to avoid judges expanding the scope of the Constitution too much, regardless of whether they do so in a direction I approve or disapprove. However, strict originalism has its own issues and they’re serious.

The beauty of our Constitution is it’s succinctness. It doesn’t focus too much on issues of a particular time period (references to the importation of slaves aside and 1808 aside) but focuses on first principles. It’s why it has survived, relatively unaltered, for as long as it has: bevause it remains relevant.

Other countries have Constitutions spanning hundreds of pages, enumerating in excruciating detail, issues very specific to the time period in which they were written. And they’re worse for it because of that.

I’ll leave you with one last thing about originalism: the concept of judicial review itself is nowhere to be found in the Constitution, yet the early Court adopted it. I doubt you’ll find an originalist that claims that was an activist decision by the Court. Ask yourself what that means about strict originalism.

I appreciate your posts and the genuine nature with which you are asking questions.  It would take a while for me to fully articulate my point of view on a lot of this stuff and provide the supporting evidence that you asked for.  The fact is that I'm too tired and pissed off these days now to do a deep dive like that.  Generally speaking I try to avoid going into that level of detail on complex issues like this because it's not very enjoyable.  It's much easier to just complain about stuff and give my pithy and amusing opinions.   ;D  I hope you understand.

avxo

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #95 on: September 20, 2020, 07:32:26 PM »
I understand. And certainly, deep philosophical discussions on politics are a little pointless, though I do appreciate the conversation. Now, I don’t know about you could use another set or two of biceps curls or triceps push downs. ;D


pellius

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #96 on: September 20, 2020, 07:59:23 PM »
I understand. And certainly, deep philosophical discussions on politics are a little pointless, though I do appreciate the conversation. Now, I don’t know about you could use another set or two of biceps curls or triceps push downs. ;D

Probably one of the most common over steps with the Supreme court is completely disregarding the 10th amendment. The Constitution is very specific as to the powers of the Federal government. It is very limited and the rest is left to the States. This was to prevent centralize power that always leads to totalitarianism.

Roe vs Wade is a prime example. When Republicans talk about overturning Roe vs. Wade it is always interpretated as making abortion illegal. No, that is not the case. Roe vs. Wade was just bad law. It should be repealed as it is not for the Federal government to decide. It should have been left to the States. Before Roe vs. Wade abortions were legal in twenty states.

Other laws like the Brady bill was also unconstitutional. It is left to the States to determine their own gun laws.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."


Pray_4_War

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #97 on: September 20, 2020, 08:39:19 PM »
I understand. And certainly, deep philosophical discussions on politics are a little pointless, though I do appreciate the conversation. Now, I don’t know about you could use another set or two of biceps curls or triceps push downs. ;D

Cheers

Curls or tricep push downs?  No, I can't.  If my arms were any more perfect women would start mobbing me and causing a scene every time I leave the house.  Other men would become despondent and start killing themselves because they can't live up to my arm development.  I have to limit my curls and tricep work for the safety of others.  I wouldn't want anyone to be injured in the stampede when the women are trying desperately to get close to me.  It very sad really.

Megalodon

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #98 on: September 20, 2020, 10:31:33 PM »
This wretch is so pro-Ginsburg that she wishes she had been aborted:


Body-Buildah

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Re: Ginsburg dead
« Reply #99 on: September 21, 2020, 01:46:55 AM »
You’d catfish yourself.  You are gonna have to think hard on that one, Count Cucula.

LOL