Author Topic: Did Dorian Yates out work everyone?  (Read 25575 times)

Bevo

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #150 on: July 23, 2023, 09:08:18 AM »
Im 5'10  ;D

Bhanky is the same height

joswift

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #151 on: July 23, 2023, 09:11:04 AM »
Bhanky is the same height

but hes the larger man apparently

JackTheRipper

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #152 on: July 23, 2023, 09:34:33 AM »
Dorian was frank in his autobiography, mentioning his naturally high workout capacity. He was naturally strong and highly conditioned. If you are built that way naturally and juice to the gills, it is difficult for others to surpass your level of work.

I had seen a documentary on Rocky Marciano, who worked maniacally all year round. His success was significantly due to his obsessiveness and extreme competitiveness, but he was also built to last. You can't run 10-15 miles in heavy boots all year round, and regularly punch 300-pound heavy bags without destroying your tendons, unless you are built that way.

Most of the iconic Iron Age champions seem to have been blessed with a robust constitution. Those who weren't built to withstand such intense pressures and high workloads often ended up burning out.

Reg Park was another exceptional individual. He could eat 3-pound steaks without hardly chewing and was capable of working out with heavy weights even well into his 40s.

Genetics isn't a magical muscle structure that blow with some pills, it plays a significant role in an individual's capacity to work hard, take Arnold, he was relatively strong but his extreme aerobic capacity was the key for his superb conditioning, not many did 50 sets squats in their teens.
It is hard to say, whether he succeed because he worked hard, or he was built in a way to withstand such sick routine, this is common factor on other sports as well.
LMFAO

karasan

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #153 on: July 23, 2023, 09:52:06 AM »
LMFAO
Are you a toddler? Because you can't imagine doing something, doesnt mean it is impossible.
I said before and say again, I have seen a 5th place IFBB Mr. Universe lightweight finisher working out in his mid 60's, he was doing chest, and he was a very small boned guy, with only big chest.
The volume he did, with a very respectful poundage was seen to be believed,and what he said was, Ahmet Enunlu who was good 30 pounds heavier and genetically much much superior to him was working much much harder than him when in his prime.
I can't even imagine what the hell he was doing,because that small old guy was doing so much volume with so little rest, so I believe Arnold really occasionally did 50 set squats with 250 pounds, on the alpines! because he is also known for his amazing recuparation ability and naturally very high energy levels. Energy levels is another genetic factor, some people just have so much natural energ, you have it or not.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #154 on: July 24, 2023, 12:27:46 AM »
Are you a toddler? Because you can't imagine doing something, doesnt mean it is impossible.
I said before and say again, I have seen a 5th place IFBB Mr. Universe lightweight finisher working out in his mid 60's, he was doing chest, and he was a very small boned guy, with only big chest.
The volume he did, with a very respectful poundage was seen to be believed,and what he said was, Ahmet Enunlu who was good 30 pounds heavier and genetically much much superior to him was working much much harder than him when in his prime.
I can't even imagine what the hell he was doing,because that small old guy was doing so much volume with so little rest, so I believe Arnold really occasionally did 50 set squats with 250 pounds, on the alpines! because he is also known for his amazing recuparation ability and naturally very high energy levels. Energy levels is another genetic factor, some people just have so much natural energ, you have it or not.
But why do it?

Rmj11

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #155 on: July 24, 2023, 08:31:40 AM »
Dorian Yates off season mass gain

Day 1

Shoulders Triceps

Military press or Dumbbell press
Side raises
Dumbbell shrugs

Pressdowns
Lying extensions

Day 2

Back

Reverse grip pulldowns
Bent over rows or machine rows
Cable rows
Rear raises
Deadlifts

Day 3 off

Day 4

Chest Biceps

Incline press
Machine press or Dumbbell press
Flys

Ez bar curls
Concentration curls

Day 5

Legs

Leg extensions
Leg press
Hack squats

Leg curls
Stiff leg deadlifts

Calf raises
Seated calf raises

After warm ups 3 sets of 6 to 10 reps

Set 1 top weight
Set 2 back off set with a 5 to10% drop in weight
Set 3 drop set 20 to 30% drop in weight done soon after the 2nd set

joswift

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #156 on: July 24, 2023, 09:30:19 AM »
Dorian Yates off season mass gain

Day 1

Shoulders Triceps

Military press or Dumbbell press
Side raises
Dumbbell shrugs

Pressdowns
Lying extensions

Day 2

Back

Reverse grip pulldowns
Bent over rows or machine rows
Cable rows
Rear raises
Deadlifts

Day 3 off

Day 4

Chest Biceps

Incline press
Machine press or Dumbbell press
Flys

Ez bar curls
Concentration curls

Day 5

Legs

Leg extensions
Leg press
Hack squats

Leg curls
Stiff leg deadlifts

Calf raises
Seated calf raises

After warm ups 3 sets of 6 to 10 reps

Set 1 top weight
Set 2 back off set with a 5 to10% drop in weight
Set 3 drop set 20 to 30% drop in weight done soon after the 2nd set


If you take a muscle to failure and then stop, your muscle is 30% recovered in 10 seconds and is at 90% in 60 seconds

Current thought (including Dorian) is one set is all you need to failure, any more is counter productive

karasan

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #157 on: July 25, 2023, 04:45:50 AM »
But why do it?
Working out is their life, not much of a social life other than the gym buddies, and it also burns fat, no need for cardio working out like this.

Rmj11

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #158 on: August 05, 2023, 11:39:13 PM »
I still see the hit cult still praising Yates as a "prodigy" of meth head's heavy dooty and that his one set was so intense it's of the charts. Laughable. Dorian tells stories and hypes himself up so that the hit cult swallow it up. He has to stay relevant somehow so he sells the hit kool aid to those who don't know any better and buy into his bs.

JackTheRipper

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #159 on: August 06, 2023, 12:20:05 AM »
I still see the hit cult still praising Yates as a "prodigy" of meth head's heavy dooty and that his one set was so intense it's of the charts. Laughable. Dorian tells stories and hypes himself up so that the hit cult swallow it up. He has to stay relevant somehow so he sells the hit kool aid to those who don't know any better and buy into his bs.
The king !

Rmj11

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #160 on: August 06, 2023, 12:33:30 AM »
The king !


The king of huge drug dosages. That's it.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #161 on: August 06, 2023, 12:43:52 AM »
The king of huge drug dosages. That's it.
There are plenty of competitors who used just as much.

Rmj11

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #162 on: August 06, 2023, 03:05:15 AM »
There are plenty of competitors who used just as much.

But Yates was one of the first. After that other pros caught on and they started upping the dosage. Drugs is why Yates got that big. Not because of hit.

SF1900

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #163 on: August 06, 2023, 03:58:47 AM »
It really does not matter how Yates trained. He could have used all machines.

Drugs and genetic response to drugs is all he needed.
X

Rmj11

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #164 on: August 06, 2023, 04:31:23 AM »
It really does not matter how Yates trained. He could have used all machines.

Drugs and genetic response to drugs is all he needed.

Not quite true. He had to train a certain way but to make out he did so radical from other bodybuilders is very misleading and dishonest.

Palumboism

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #165 on: August 06, 2023, 04:37:29 AM »
Dorian’s training partner is legendary.  His name is LeRoy. Trust me-  no LeRoy no Dorian. They were inseparable friends.

LeRoy was a gentleman and as humble as anyone can be.


Watching the video I always thought LeRoy was an important part of Dorian's training.

oldtimer1

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #166 on: August 06, 2023, 04:42:11 AM »
He did do one work set to failure. Yes, he did a warm up set or two if needed. No one at his strength level just does one work set to failure without a warm up.  Even at my modest strength level I usually do a submaximal warm up set prior to an all out set. If you truly do one set to failure there is no way you can come back and do a second set at the same intensity. If you did a set and failed at 10 there is no way you can rest 90 seconds and get another 10 reps. If you can you weren't truly at failure at 10 reps for the first set.

I have trained with one set to failure or two sets for over 40 years. If I used two sets per exercise there usually was a warm set then one set to around 90% failure then the second work set to 100% failure. Using the one set to failure model is brutal.  It's very hard on the mind to go all out for that one set for every exercise.

Having said all the above I think for the majority of trainers and even my self would do better with multiple sets. The muscular endurance method of lifting works.  Doing something like 5 sets of 12 works amazing. If using the same weight the first set is to 12 but you could have gotten 20 reps if you went to failure. The second set of 5 sets of 12 you stop at 12 reps but could have gotten 17. The third set you stop at 12 but could have gotten 14 reps. The fourth you stop at 12 but could have gutted out 13 reps. The fifth you fail at 10 reps.  This is a very effective way of training.

The best part of doing one set to failure is how it fits in a busy life. When I do a Dorian split three of the workouts take about 45 minutes and leg day one hour.  I don't know how guys drive say an hour to work then work 8 to 10 hours  coming home to a family to hit the gym at night for two hours. Even if one set to failure was only 85% as effective as a volume routine it's a no brainer for a guy with a family and a real career.

Rambone

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #167 on: August 06, 2023, 04:44:32 AM »
Did Dorian outwork Ukjeff?  ???

Rmj11

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #168 on: August 06, 2023, 05:05:10 AM »
He did do one work set to failure. Yes, he did a warm up set or two if needed. No one at his strength level just does one work set to failure without a warm up.  Even at my modest strength level I usually do a submaximal warm up set prior to an all out set. If you truly do one set to failure there is no way you can come back and do a second set at the same intensity. If you did a set and failed at 10 there is no way you can rest 90 seconds and get another 10 reps. If you can you weren't truly at failure at 10 reps for the first set.

I have trained with one set to failure or two sets for over 40 years. If I used two sets per exercise there usually was a warm set then one set to around 90% failure then the second work set to 100% failure. Using the one set to failure model is brutal.  It's very hard on the mind to go all out for that one set for every exercise.

Having said all the above I think for the majority of trainers and even my self would do better with multiple sets. The muscular endurance method of lifting works.  Doing something like 5 sets of 12 works amazing. If using the same weight the first set is to 12 but you could have gotten 20 reps if you went to failure. The second set of 5 sets of 12 you stop at 12 reps but could have gotten 17. The third set you stop at 12 but could have gotten 14 reps. The fourth you stop at 12 but could have gutted out 13 reps. The fifth you fail at 10 reps.  This is a very effective way of training.

The best part of doing one set to failure is how it fits in a busy life. When I do a Dorian split three of the workouts take about 45 minutes and leg day one hour.  I don't know how guys drive say an hour to work then work 8 to 10 hours  coming home to a family to hit the gym at night for two hours. Even if one set to failure was only 85% as effective as a volume routine it's a no brainer for a guy with a family and a real career.

Incorrect. Let's take his old back routine from a 1986 mag. It went like this

Weighted chin ups 3 work sets
Bent rows 3 work sets
Cable rows 3 work sets
Deadlifts 4 sets of 10 8 6 6 pyramiding up the weight.

He did chest and shoulders along with back so his workouts far exceeded that of the 45 minutes that he claims to have done.

Yates did conventional methods to build up. Not one set to failure hit guff.

When he switched to the one set method, not hit though, he also upped the dosage of his drugs. He was a hyper responder to the large cocktail of roids he was on that he probably could get way with just one top set.

The narrator in the blood and guts vid states that Yates did "a few warm up sets then does one set to failure and beyond" but in the vid he did anything but. First, he's using pyramid sets, nothing new there. Then he does his last set with a bit of assistance from Leeroy. But did he do any forced reps? Rest pause? Drop sets? To go beyond failure...no he did not. On some exercises he didn't even go to failure so how is that hit? It is not.

No. Yates trained conventionally for the most part. His method is no different than many of the pro's and amateur bodybuilders who have come and gone over the years,

Blood and guts is not a training manual. It is just for entertainment purposes and nothing more. You really think Yates trained like that day in, day out with leeroy shouting at him? It's all done for cameras. It's all for entertainment.

Yates is just another old former champion hyping himself up by telling stories and making out he took very few dosages of roids. Yeah, right.

He has to stay relevant because what else has he got? Nothing. He has no real qualifications  or other work experience. His life has been bodybuilding. He's going to keep selling the HIT kool aid until the day he dies and the hit clan are going to keep lapping it up. It's very misleading and very dishonest.

As for hit being good for those that claim they don't have time (they have time but make up excuses) it certainly is time efficient but it will not yield good results at all.

joswift

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #169 on: August 06, 2023, 05:06:57 AM »
Incorrect. Let's take his old back routine from a 1986 mag. It went like this

Weighted chin ups 3 work sets
Bent rows 3 work sets
Cable rows 3 work sets
Deadlifts 4 sets of 10 8 6 6 pyramiding up the weight.

He did chest and shoulders along with back so his workouts far exceeded that of the 45 minutes that he claims to have done.

Yates did conventional methods to build up. Not one set to failure hit guff.

When he switched to the one set method, not hit though, he also upped the dosage of his drugs. He was a hyper responder to the large cocktail of roids he was on that he probably could get way with just one top set.

The narrator in the blood and guts vid states that Yates did "a few warm up sets then does one set to failure and beyond" but in the vid he did anything but. First, he's using pyramid sets, nothing new there. Then he does his last set with a bit of assistance from Leeroy. But did he do any forced reps? Rest pause? Drop sets? To go beyond failure...no he did not. On some exercises he didn't even go to failure so how is that hit? It is not.

No. Yates trained conventionally for the most part. His method is no different than many of the pro's and amateur bodybuilders who have come and gone over the years,

Blood and guts is not a training manual. It is just for entertainment purposes and nothing more. You really think Yates trained like that day in, day out with leeroy shouting at him? It's all done for cameras. It's all for entertainment.

Yates is just another old former champion hyping himself up by telling stories and making out he took very few dosages of roids. Yeah, right.

He has to stay relevant because what else has he got? Nothing. He has no real qualifications  or other work experience. His life has been bodybuilding. He's going to keep selling the HIT kool aid until the day he dies and the hit clan are going to keep lapping it up. It's very misleading and very dishonest.

As for hit being good for those that claim they don't have time (they have time but make up excuses) it certainly is time efficient but it will not yield good results at all.

watch it with the sound off, without Leroy screaming its a straight forward workout

Rmj11

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #170 on: August 06, 2023, 05:30:46 AM »
watch it with the sound off, without Leroy screaming its a straight forward workout

Exactly. If some typical gym rat was in the gym training like that nobody would care.

joswift

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #171 on: August 06, 2023, 09:21:50 AM »
Exactly. If some typical gym rat was in the gym training like that nobody would care.
If Leroy was in my gym he wouldnt be screaming like that, he would be banned...

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #172 on: August 07, 2023, 12:31:55 AM »
He did do one work set to failure. Yes, he did a warm up set or two if needed. No one at his strength level just does one work set to failure without a warm up.  Even at my modest strength level I usually do a submaximal warm up set prior to an all out set. If you truly do one set to failure there is no way you can come back and do a second set at the same intensity. If you did a set and failed at 10 there is no way you can rest 90 seconds and get another 10 reps. If you can you weren't truly at failure at 10 reps for the first set.

I have trained with one set to failure or two sets for over 40 years. If I used two sets per exercise there usually was a warm set then one set to around 90% failure then the second work set to 100% failure. Using the one set to failure model is brutal.  It's very hard on the mind to go all out for that one set for every exercise.

Having said all the above I think for the majority of trainers and even my self would do better with multiple sets. The muscular endurance method of lifting works.  Doing something like 5 sets of 12 works amazing. If using the same weight the first set is to 12 but you could have gotten 20 reps if you went to failure. The second set of 5 sets of 12 you stop at 12 reps but could have gotten 17. The third set you stop at 12 but could have gotten 14 reps. The fourth you stop at 12 but could have gutted out 13 reps. The fifth you fail at 10 reps.  This is a very effective way of training.

The best part of doing one set to failure is how it fits in a busy life. When I do a Dorian split three of the workouts take about 45 minutes and leg day one hour.  I don't know how guys drive say an hour to work then work 8 to 10 hours  coming home to a family to hit the gym at night for two hours. Even if one set to failure was only 85% as effective as a volume routine it's a no brainer for a guy with a family and a real career.
The (s)HIT warriors make the mistake of thinking that the only thing that creates hypertrophy is adding weight or reps to a set. Hypertrophy requires different chemical reactions in the muscle and body as a whole.

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #173 on: August 07, 2023, 12:53:18 AM »
Q

Rmj11

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Re: Did Dorian out work everyone?
« Reply #174 on: August 07, 2023, 03:05:39 AM »
The (s)HIT warriors make the mistake of thinking that the only thing that creates hypertrophy is adding weight or reps to a set. Hypertrophy requires different chemical reactions in the muscle and body as a whole.

Exactly. For if that were true the (s)hit warriors would be benching 500 pounds for reps by now. They don't realise that progression comes in many forms. Super sets, tri sets, giant sets, higher reps, lower reps, more sets, cluster sets, high frequency etc. They have no idea at all. They read all this methzer, John Little bs and then think they've found the answer. Bodybuilding is more of an art than a science. There is no one way to train and make progress. Even Yates did various training styles to build his body. Pyramiding sets, straight sets, reverse sets, drop sets etc he used a variation of training styles to build up.

Now he goes on about how his version of hit, but not really hit, was the way he made great gains. It wasn't. It was his drug stack.