Did Dorian Yates out work everyone?

[Van_Bilderass]

anyone can do a set like that..

Yes and no. There is no good way to measure effort but I would say, for example, that training to the point of failure can be vastly different experiences for 2 different trainees.
It can be vastly different for the same guy depending on what is going on in his head at the moment. If it truly was a life or death situation, which it never is in gym, the effort might be considerably higher.

For example. Here is a hard set of squats. On paper it's just one set to failure, so what, anyone can do it, right? No, this type of effort is not common, it can't be done for multiple sets every week.

[funk51]

Incline press worked up to 1 set of 4 plates a side for 6 reps, no forced reps

machine bench press 1 working set 3.5 plates 7 reps couple forced

in cline fly/press one working set 110lb dumbells 8 reps slight touch

1 set cable crossovers 8 reps

   who wins in this pic.

[pamith]

He trains with high intensity

[joswift]

Yes and no. There is no good way to measure effort but I would say, for example, that training to the point of failure can be vastly different experiences for 2 different trainees.
It can be vastly different for the same guy depending on what is going on in his head at the moment. If it truly was a life or death situation, which it never is in gym, the effort might be considerably higher.

For example. Here is a hard set of squats. On paper it's just one set to failure, so what, anyone can do it, right? No, this type of effort is not common, it can't be done for multiple sets every week.

Look at a fighter in his corner at the end of the 11th round, he s exhausted, he his given his all, hes not sure if he is going to die, he cant raise his arms , his head is pounding his vision is blurred......

Then the opposing corner throws in the towel, in an instant he's up off his stool dancing around the ring as the winner , arms aloft, jumping on the corner ropes soaking up the applause..

[Van_Bilderass]

Look at a fighter in his corner at the end of the 11th round, he s exhausted, he his given his all, hes not sure if he is going to die, he cant raise his arms , his head is pounding his vision is blurred......

Then the opposing corner throws in the towel, in an instant he's up off his stool dancing around the ring as the winner , arms aloft, jumping on the corner ropes soaking up the applause..

I thought you were going to say he had a few more in him 

With more endurance type work there's almost always more to give. And this squat set was getting into that territory.
Tom Platz talked about doing 2 50 rep squat sets every other week at some point.

[joswift]

I thought you were going to say he had a few more in him 

With more endurance type work there's almost always more to give. And this squat set was getting into that territory.
Tom Platz talked about doing 2 50 rep squat sets every other week at some point.

it was cardio vascular failure that stoped that set, its almost always the low back that gives out squatting causing you to lose form.
Just look how much more weight you can shift on leg press once the weak link low back is taken out of the equation.

[pellius]

anyone can do a set like that..

Everytime I walk into the gym I take a moment and survey the floor. Just check out how crowded it is and just watch random people as they go through their set. I can't remember the last time I ever saw anybody -- ANYBODY -- take a set even close to failure. When they terminate a set they could have easily -- EASILY -- get another 3 or 4 reps before. And it shows. There are very few physiques in my gym that if I saw them on the beach or mall or just out in public there is nothing about them to suggest that they ever worked out in their life despite going to the gym for years and years.

[pellius]

Yes and no. There is no good way to measure effort but I would say, for example, that training to the point of failure can be vastly different experiences for 2 different trainees.
It can be vastly different for the same guy depending on what is going on in his head at the moment. If it truly was a life or death situation, which it never is in gym, the effort might be considerably higher.

For example. Here is a hard set of squats. On paper it's just one set to failure, so what, anyone can do it, right? No, this type of effort is not common, it can't be done for multiple sets every week.

This is a good point often overlooked. It's one thing to go through the motions of forced reps, partials, negatives... but there's intensity and then there's real intensity.
The cognitive effort and intensity where you will yourself to push up to and try to exceed your limits. That's why I think if you want to progress it helps to keep records.
If on your work set you did 8 reps on a certain weight you have a reference point. Now the next time you try for the 9th and 10th rep. Even if you start out not really giving your all even though you think you are, having this goal of always attempting to  exceed your past performance you will eventually reach a point where you are really pushing yourself if you are determined to progress. I remember in my younger days when this was important to me and I was stuck for weeks on the same weight and same reps how I would become obsessed with getting that one extra rep. I had this challenge on the Smith squat. I just go so sick of getting stuck on that same damn rep that one day I just had this do or die attitude. I did get that last rep but it took so much out of me that even after lying on the floor for 15 minutes I just had nothing left to continue with the workout and went home. Three half-ass warm-ups and then that one do or die set was it for me.

[joswift]

Everytime I walk into the gym I take a moment and survey the floor. Just check out how crowded it is and just watch random people as they go through their set. I can't remember the last time I ever saw anybody -- ANYBODY -- take a set even close to failure. When they terminate a set they could have easily -- EASILY -- get another 3 or 4 reps before. And it shows. There are very few physiques in my gym that if I saw them on the beach or mall or just out in public there is nothing about them to suggest that they ever worked out in their life despite going to the gym for years and years.

there are many pros who train like that...

[pellius]

there are many pros who train like that...

LOL. So true. Genetics and hormones always win in the end.

[Van_Bilderass]

That's why I think if you want to progress it helps to keep records.
If on your work set you did 8 reps on a certain weight you have a reference point. Now the next time you try for the 9th and 10th rep. Even if you start out not really giving your all even though you think you are, having this goal of always attempting to  exceed your past performance you will eventually reach a point where you are really pushing yourself if you are determined to progress.

Absolutely. I was like you, I believed from the start as a young kid you needed to progress in weight or reps to make progress. But I also know plenty of good bodybuilders for whom this concept is totally foreign. I still think I'm right but these other guys are so much better than I am.
I do think most bodybuilders make very little progress after a certain point but sometimes they can go far on that initial progress and/or make some gains just through time on drugs/quantity of drugs/different drugs.

Setting PRs as a kid was glorious though, great memories

[pellius]

Absolutely. I was like you, I believed from the start as a young kid you needed to progress in weight or reps to make progress. But I also know plenty of good bodybuilders for whom this concept is totally foreign. I still think I'm right but these other guys are so much better than I am.
I do think most bodybuilders make very little progress after a certain point but sometimes they can go far on that initial progress and/or make some gains just through time on drugs/quantity of drugs/different drugs.

Setting PRs as a kid was glorious though, great memories

Yes, if I didn't have that goal there was no way I would have attempted that last rep. Especially on a compound movement like squats getting those last three reps before the do or die one was taxing my upper limits and if I didn't keep track and just went by feeling I probably would have stopped a couple of reps before the big one and still be satisfied that I pushed myself because I'd be sucking wind.

[oldtimer1]

Dorian had a serious workout ethic. Was he the strongest bodybuilder ever? No, maybe that title belongs to Ronnie but never the less Dorian worked out hard core. Even the gyms Ronnie and Dorian trained in were hard core.

[joswift]

Watch his Blood and Guts video with the sound off, without Leroys stupid shouting it doesn't look all that intense,.

[pamith]

The only one that can train harder than Dorian...is me...

[obsidian]

Incline press worked up to 1 set of 4 plates a side for 6 reps, no forced reps

machine bench press 1 working set 3.5 plates 7 reps couple forced

in cline fly/press one working set 110lb dumbells 8 reps slight touch

1 set cable crossovers 8 reps

And then Eddie Hall did 6 plates for 6 reps without a spotter.

[obsidian]

The only one that can train harder than Dorian...is me...

Eddie trained harder than Dorian. Not a bodybuilder true but weight wise and intensity no contest. Eddie was a beast!

[pamith]

Eddie trained harder than Dorian. Not a bodybuilder true but weight wise and intensity no contest. Eddie was a beast!

Dorian was a bodybuilder

[pamith]

   who wins in this pic.

Shawn is a midget next to Dorian, no offense

[Humble Narcissist]

The only one that can train harder than Dorian...is me...

Enjoy.

[Rmj11]

Watch the video, his working set on incline bench was 7 reps no forced.

his fly/press were not pushed to failure

in fact he didnt fail on any set, he completed the reps on his own

Exactly. I noticed this when if first saw Blood and Guts the video many years ago. Not one drop set. No rest pause or static holds. No real forced reps. Dorian just trained up to one top set. He even admitted in a recent podcast with Dennis James that he rarely went beyond failure, he just worked up to a top set. On some exercises like bent rows and stiff leg deadlifts he didn't even go to failure. How is that hit?

Dorian was actually using the delorme method which is a strength building protocol.

3 sets of 10 reps

The first set done at 50 to 60% of top set
Second set done at 70 to 80% of top weight
Third set is the top set to failure or close to it

Dorian just used a variation of this method.

In his early years he would do back off sets after his top weight.

Warm up set followed by a moderate set then his top weight followed by 2 back off sets, dropping the weight down by 10 to 15% for the back off sets. This is how he initially built his body with a bit more volume.

[obsidian]

X2

Sure dorian didn't have the best shape compared to the very aesthetic physiques of the nineties, but he had a good frame with freaky body parts, got in awesome condition and had the ability to gain massive amounts of mass.... That's not all hard work there's a lot of genetics in that too.

Yes agreed. You don't win Mr. O with shitty genetics. But I don't think even Dorian thinks he had shitty genetics. Just that some of his competitors had better genetics than he did. The mind is also part of your genetics. So Dorian's genetics was the best when you add his mind, will power, and discipline.

[mops]

Its funny how dramatic & brutal things appear when you shoot a Black & White training VHS in a dead silent ( no music playing ) hole in the wall of a gym with nothing but reverberations coming from a Tourette screaming sidekick retard

P.S. : I love "Blood & Guts" and Dorian's composed and unassuming attitude

[pamith]

Dorian trained extremely hard, at the end of the day it goes like this, Dorian is the best out of all white bodybuilders while Ronnie is the best out of all black bodybuilders (Heath being a close second place)

[AbrahamG]

Dorian trained extremely hard, at the end of the day it goes like this, Dorian is the best out of all white bodybuilders while Ronnie is the best out of all black bodybuilders (Heath being a close second place)

You fucking retard.