Question about test cyp

[DanielPaul]

How long does it take to start seeing a difference in a first time user with a decent diet and weight routine on 250 mg per week?

[IroNat]

You'll feel it within a day.

My 2 cents is why bother? 

Unless you keep on it the results disappear and if you keep on it your natural test production will cease.

[DanielPaul]

You'll feel it within a day.

But why bother? 

Unless you keep on it the results disappear and if you keep on it you'll mess yourself up.

so it is enough to get leaner and ad a little mass?

[IroNat]

so it is enough to get leaner and ad a little mass?

These drugs are powerful.  Do they work?  Yes.

But why not just train intelligently, eat well, and do some cardio if you want to lean up?

Unless you have some physical issue you'll have success naturally.

Check out my training log.  I don't use drugs.  Been training 40 years.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=646168.775

[Henda]

so it is enough to get leaner and ad a little mass?

Yes but over time it’s not going to give the initial quick gains a cycle would but stay on it for a good while and will definitely see gains just nothing dramatic

[Body-Buildah]

That's closer to a high TRT dose than it is to a cycle. How old are you, did you ever get bloods done to see what your normal test is?
You'll see some fat loss and tightening up, but dont expect super-muscles on such a dose.

If you  have Low T you'll notice some good things (libido, well being, energy, etc).
Always good to know your starting numbers before jumping into test/gear. Also monitor your bloods for the normal markers (lipids, liver, hematocrit, etc).
Even that dose can affect your normal bloods.

[Darren Avey]

Well I'm taking cyp.for the first time, was always an ent man, and I've never been so strong. 500lb squats, 160lb db inclines,  135 db shoulder press.  Weirdly my deadlift hasnt budged though. Still stuck on 560lbs which I've been able to do for years

[harmankardon1]

4 days ... To actually feel it, more time for gains .... You'll gain some water and get full earlier than you make any real gains.

250 is pretty low

[harmankardon1]

Well I'm taking cyp.for the first time, was always an ent man, and I've never been so strong. 500lb squats, 160lb db inclines,  135 db shoulder press.  Weirdly my deadlift hasnt budged though. Still stuck on 560lbs which I've been able to do for years

You've probably just got a better dosed product (less underdosed)

There is no noticeable difference in gains between esters E and C they are very similar.

[harmankardon1]

so it is enough to get leaner and ad a little mass?

Don't expect miracles at that dose, also you will retain water so will probably look less lean if anything.

[Body-Buildah]

Well I'm taking cyp.for the first time, was always an ent man, and I've never been so strong. 500lb squats, 160lb db inclines,  135 db shoulder press.  Weirdly my deadlift hasnt budged though. Still stuck on 560lbs which I've been able to do for years

Same lab? One might be higher does as Cyp and Enanth are really no different (different ester but close to identical).
Testosterone Cypionate has a half-life of 12 days whereas its like 10-11 days for Testosterone Enanthate.

Most of the time interchangeable, but some folks may react differently to the ester/break down.

[LurkerNoMore]

How long does it take to start seeing a difference in a first time user with a decent diet and weight routine on 250 mg per week?

Going by the mirror :
If you weigh 160lbs then in a week you will see a difference.  If you weigh 220 at 20+ body fat, then after 2 months, you won't see any difference at all except the occasional pimple perhaps.

Going by the amount of weights you lift :
In about 2 weeks. 

[ThisisOverload]

Within a week your dick is going to get more active, but you aren't really going to see anything for a few weeks on that dose.  Like others have said, you are going to gain a little water and look a bit "fuller", but not by very much.  That is a very low dose if you are interested in actually gaining mass.  You will get a little stronger and have better workouts, but don't expect anything crazy.

As Lurker said, the leaner you are the faster you will notice something.  If you are a little chubby, you probably won't notice much at all.  This is why you see so many guys doubting their gear is real, if you're not lean you aren't going to notice anything for a few weeks.  If you're like 8-10% BF, you will see a difference pretty quickly.

If you have low T and really need this for medical reasons, you will feel a good boost in energy after a 1-2 weeks.

[joswift]

Within a week your dick is going to get more active, but you aren't really going to see anything for a few weeks on that dose.  Like others have said, you are going to gain a little water and look a bit "fuller", but not by very much.  That is a very low dose if you are interested in actually gaining mass.  You will get a little stronger and have better workouts, but don't expect anything crazy.

As Lurker said, the leaner you are the faster you will notice something.  If you are a little chubby, you probably won't notice much at all.  This is why you see so many guys doubting their gear is real, if you're not lean you aren't going to notice anything for a few weeks.  If you're like 8-10% BF, you will see a difference pretty quickly.

If you have low T and really need this for medical reasons, you will feel a good boost in energy after a 1-2 weeks.

If you have decent genetics a first time dose is more than enough to gain on, if you dont gain then try 500, if you still dont gain then give up, you are not cut out for it as you are a shit responder.
All you are going to end up doing is keep doubling your dose and find out its still not working, you either have receptors or you dont.

[prowlermaniac]

Tbh, I made some of my best gains on that exact dosage, nothing else.  Granted, I had been training for 12 years at that point but I ran nothing other than 250mg test cyp for nearly two years.  As long as training and nutrition is on point, which it rarely is for most, then you will make improvements.  I never believed it but I experienced it first hand.  Will you get to Ronnie Coleman type mass?  Probably not but you’ll be surprised how much you can grow off that amount.

[Atlas pump]

Its been debunked more test doesn't mean more gains.  You will want to compound it with good androgenic compounds if you actually want mass.  Test is only good for a base, anything more and you're experiencing more  side.effects then you are results.

250 is enough if you stay on long term. If you want a short xycle then throw in some orals or other liquid conpounds thay will actually make you grow.

[Rusty Trombone]

IronNat, for years and years I've been reading your antisteroid posts.

You haven't used roids as you say,so how why the hell did you say he will feel 250mg test within a day..... which is ridiculous in every way.

[Rusty Trombone]

No, with 250mg you will not feel anything within "4 days" or a week, not even libido unless you are severely hypogonadal beforehand. Those who say they otherwise are experiencing placebo.

[pellius]

These drugs are powerful.  Do they work?  Yes.

But why not just train intelligently, eat well, and do some cardio if you want to lean up?

Unless you have some physical issue you'll have success naturally.

Check out my training log.  I don't use drugs.  Been training 40 years.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=646168.775

Is that you in the youtube video posted along your training log?

[DanielPaul]

Anyone know anything about Deca Cypionate?

[harmankardon1]

Same lab? One might be higher does as Cyp and Enanth are really no different (different ester but close to identical).
Testosterone Cypionate has a half-life of 12 days whereas its like 10-11 days for Testosterone Enanthate.

Most of the time interchangeable, but some folks may react differently to the ester/break down.

The other thing to remember is those half life's are quoted from scientific studies, they are really best guesses, study participants means.... The real half lives in an individual can be quite different, varying by days, so this makes the very small difference between the two esters even less noticeable.

[Van_Bilderass]

The other thing to remember is those half life's are quoted from scientific studies, they are really best guesses, study participants means.... The real half lives in an individual can be quite different, varying by days, so this makes the very small difference between the two esters even less noticeable.

I've written about this before, but even studies say the half-life of enanthate, a similar ester, is like 2-5 days. The 10 or 12 day half-life is pulled out of someone's ass. I've never found any reference supporting this. For stable levels every 5 days is good, more often even better, though once a week will work fine, at higher dose even less frequent will work too. That's because the peak will be higher with higher dose the less frequently and levels never bottom out anyway, even if you go every 10 days - say at 500mg+.

Just test will be somewhat of a disappointment for most. For fast immediate response adding just a tiny touch of orals will be really gratifying. Say even 15mg of dbol.

[pellius]

You'll feel it within a day.

My 2 cents is why bother? 

Unless you keep on it the results disappear and if you keep on it your natural test production will cease.

I never understand this argument. If you stop training and/or proper nutrition your results will also disappear. Everything in life that you do for benefits and results will stop producing those benefits and results once you stop. In fact, it doesn't really matter what you do, everything in life is temporary. Even life itself.

When it comes to the decision of whether or not you want to take testosterone look at it this way. Eventually your levels are going to be below reference range due to aging. So your quality of life will eventually decline as well. If you want to delay this then it would be to your advantage to supplement and replace what you are losing due to age. And, yes, you will be doing this for as long as you want this enhanced quality of life and health for that matter. This applies to various nutritional supplements that do help with energy levels and the various aches and pains. This also applies to medications such as the Synvisc injections I take for my knees (a gel-like mixture made from a substance called hyaluronan that lubricates and cushions the joints).

So if someone plans to do resistance training for the rest of his life I think it is a very good idea to make sure you have the sufficient anabolic support to make all that effort both productive and worthwhile.

Again, it depends on your perspective on life. My years are limited and I want to make the most of those years for the longest period of time and will take advantage of anything and everything, as long as the trade-off between health and quality of life is rationally balanced. When I compare myself to most my own age, when I compare myself to my father when he was my age, I feel that even if I die tomorrow the trade off would have been worth it.

[BB]

About the only anti-steroid argument I've ever respected was the one about it being less enjoyable to train "off" once you've been "on". All the rest are mostly shrug-offable.

[Bevo]

Might as well push it to 1 gram or 1.5 and call it a day