Author Topic: What's The Future For America's Big Three Auto Companies? (Read 2267 times)

Palumboism · « **on:** October 25, 2020, 01:42:53 PM »

Ford has $175 Billion in debt and has been downgraded to junk. Ford recently borrowed $3.5 billion at %8.5 interest.

GM has $127 Billion in debt. GM recently borrowed $4 Billion at 6.25%

Peugeot's purchase of FCA will conclude in early 2021 and the combined company will be renamed Stellantis and headquartered in Paris.

What are your predictions for the future of the big three?

OlympiaGym · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2020, 01:53:33 PM »

Source for the Ford comment? I understood Ford to be sitting on substantial cash. There may be a benefit tax-wise or some other way in borrowing the money, if true, but I don’t know what it is. I own Ford stock and it was decent until it stopped paying a dividend, which it blamed on COVID.

I don’t know anything about GM.

Dodge is surviving on selling trucks and SUVs to the Trump-voter demographic. Not a great long-term plan.

Mayday · « **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2020, 01:56:31 PM »

I don't think they will let them die.

I believe there will be more project collaboration in general in the car market moving forward. It's too expensive to research and produce everything from scratch. Way easier to share costs with a partner or purchase someone else's platform and make cosmetic changes.

Palumboism · « **Reply #3 on:** October 25, 2020, 01:58:17 PM »

2020 Third Quarter US Auto Sale - Top Thirty

1) Ford F-Series      221,647
2) Ram Pickup      156,156
3) Chevrolet Silverado    147,484
4) Toyota RAV4      119,214
5) Tesla Model 3 89,000
6) Honda CR-V      88,436
7) Toyota Camry      79,046
8 Honda Civic      73,083
9) GMC Sierra      67,812
10 Chevrolet Equinox     67,475
11) Toyota Highlander     62,230
12) Nissan Rogue      60,436
13) Ford Explorer      59,059
14) Toyota Tacoma      58,920
15) Toyota Corolla      56,612
16) Honda Accord      56,537
17) Jeep Grand Cherokee     56,447
18) Jeep Wrangler      54,071
19) Subaru Forester      48,222
20) Ford Escape      46,956
21) Subaru Outback      44,037
22) Jeep Cherokee      40,981
23) Mazda CX-5      39,205
25) Ford Transit      38,891
26) Honda Pilot      35,187
27) Tesla Model Y      35,000
28) Hyundai Tuscon      33,198
29) Chevrolet Traverse     31,603
30) Subaru CrossTrek     31,192

Detroit big three sales in bold. It wasn't long ago that domestic cars would dominate the list of top thirty vehicles.

Palumboism · « **Reply #4 on:** October 25, 2020, 02:14:39 PM »

Quote from: OlympiaGym on October 25, 2020, 01:53:33 PM

Source for the Ford comment? I understood Ford to be sitting on substantial cash. There may be a benefit tax-wise or some other way in borrowing the money, if true, but I don’t know what it is. I own Ford stock and it was decent until it stopped paying a dividend, which it blamed on COVID.

I don’t know anything about GM.

Dodge is surviving on selling trucks and SUVs to the Trump-voter demographic. Not a great long-term plan.

I'm actually using a Youtube video as the source. He was using the Ford financial reports.

Ford is not in good financial shape at all right now. Didn't you get the hint when the last CEO was FIRED.

Companies in strong financial shape are not rated JUNK and don't have to pay 8.5% to borrow money. Seriously this is not a stock you want to own especially in this week economy. Download the most recent financial reports for Ford soon. You're not understanding how fast an auto company goes through cash.

Palumboism · « **Reply #5 on:** October 25, 2020, 02:24:53 PM »

Quote from: OlympiaGym on October 25, 2020, 01:53:33 PM

Dodge is surviving on selling trucks and SUVs to the Trump-voter demographic. Not a great long-term plan.

And how do you think Ford and GM are surviving?

The F150, Silverado, and Ram are keeping Detroit afloat and that's a big part of the problem.

The big thee got out of the car market because they had to. They couldn't compete with the Camry's, Accords, and Civics. But, they won't admit it.

What do the big three offer for less than $27K? Practically nothing and they are completely losing the Millennial shopper. Ten years from now the full effect of that will be obvious.

And what if Millennial's don't start buying F150's and Silverado's in the future? Why would they?

OlympiaGym · « **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2020, 02:30:50 PM »

Wouldn’t rely on some video put up by some kid to make financial decisions. Very complex issues that are far beyond his level of understanding. A few of the comments call him out.

OlympiaGym · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2020, 02:32:06 PM »

Quote from: Palumboism on October 25, 2020, 02:24:53 PM

And how do you think Ford and GM are surviving?

The F150, Silverado, and Ram are keeping Detroit afloat and that's a big part of the problem.

The big thee got out of the car market because they had to. They couldn't compete with the Camry's, Accords, and Civics. But, they won't admit it.

What do the big three offer for less than $27K? Practically nothing and they are completely losing the Millennial shopper. Ten years from now the full effect of that will be obvious.

And what if Millennial's don't start buying F150's and Silverado's in the future? Why would they?

The auto industry is a challenging one for every company. Look at the big picture.

Palumboism · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2020, 02:50:43 PM »

Quote from: OlympiaGym on October 25, 2020, 02:30:50 PM

Wouldn’t rely on some video put up by some kid to make financial decisions. Very complex issues that are far beyond his level of understanding. A few of the comments call him out.

I'm not making any financial decisions based on the video.

If you want Ford financial reports go to the investor relations page.
https://shareholder.ford.com/investors/overview/default.aspx

Pray_4_War · « **Reply #9 on:** October 25, 2020, 03:05:13 PM »

These companies are dumb and inefficient and they should be allowed to go bankrupt. They are going to try to compete with Tesla in the electric vehicle market but they are gonna get ate up and shit out.

The new Hummer is a perfect example. It's designed to somewhat (hypothetically) compete with the Tesla Cyber Truck. The problem is...to do that GM has to charge 112K for it. lol.

....but they paid Lebron and some guy that sounds like Batman to do voiceovers in their kick-ass overblown Michael Bay style commercial. They are Dinosaurs waiting for the asteroid to hit.

The Scott · « **Reply #10 on:** October 25, 2020, 03:47:43 PM »

I own Ford and Dodge (Ram) vehicles. I've had Chevrolet too and would like to own a Camaro SS convertible or a Corvette but two things get in the way.

1) Money

2) I'm handicapable and cannot get out of either of those, although in theory a convertible might allow me to egress by pushing up with my good leg.

I like American vehicles. Always have. I would also like a Challenger but the money thing gets in my way! Again.

Humble Narcissist · « **Reply #11 on:** October 25, 2020, 04:10:34 PM »

Quote from: The Scott on October 25, 2020, 03:47:43 PM

I own Ford and Dodge (Ram) vehicles. I've had Chevrolet too and would like to own a Camaro SS convertible or a Corvette but two things get in the way.

1) Money

2) I'm handicapable and cannot get out of either of those, although in theory a convertible might allow me to egress by pushing up with my good leg.

I like American vehicles. Always have. I would also like a Challenger but the money thing gets in my way! Again.

I love Ford trucks but their cars are shit.

The Scott · « **Reply #12 on:** October 25, 2020, 04:18:41 PM »

Quote from: Humble Narcissist on October 25, 2020, 04:10:34 PM

I love Ford trucks but their cars are shit.

I like Mustangs. For the same reason I like Camaros and Challengers and Corvettes! Yup. I'm simple-minded!

One of my uncles had a 'Cuda. It was soooo coooool!

Palumboism · « **Reply #13 on:** October 25, 2020, 04:31:43 PM »

Quote from: The Scott on October 25, 2020, 04:18:41 PM

I like Mustangs. For the same reason I like Camaros and Challengers and Corvettes! Yup. I'm simple-minded!

One of my uncles had a 'Cuda. It was soooo coooool!

Fusion, Impala, Cruze, and the Chrysler C200 were not saved from the chopping block, but the Mustang, Challenger, and Corvette were.

I'm not saying they did the wrong thing by cutting those cars, but the fact that they did is not a good sign.

They could survive just making pickups if they had to, but they will be much smaller companies and all their eggs will be in one basket.

Humble Narcissist · « **Reply #14 on:** October 25, 2020, 04:32:28 PM »

Quote from: The Scott on October 25, 2020, 04:18:41 PM

I like Mustangs. For the same reason I like Camaros and Challengers and Corvettes! Yup. I'm simple-minded!

One of my uncles had a 'Cuda. It was soooo coooool!

I think Mustangs look good but too stiff handling.

The Scott · « **Reply #15 on:** October 25, 2020, 05:41:39 PM »

Quote from: Palumboism on October 25, 2020, 04:31:43 PM

Fusion, Impala, Cruze, and the Chrysler C200 were not saved from the chopping block, but the Mustang, Challenger, and Corvette were.

I'm not saying they did the wrong thing by cutting those cars, but the fact that they did is not a good sign.

They could survive just making pickups if they had to, but they will be much smaller companies and all their eggs will be in one basket.

Cars are not selling as much as SUVs and trucks for some time now. I think much of the problem is due to all vehicles are stupid expensive these days.

Marty Champions · « **Reply #16 on:** October 25, 2020, 05:51:36 PM »

I see so many 20k and above trucks i cant see the value. I would never pay more than 8k for any suv

GymnJuice · « **Reply #17 on:** October 25, 2020, 05:52:17 PM »

Should have let them and the banks fail. Sink or swim. No bailouts.

IroNat · « **Reply #18 on:** October 25, 2020, 05:58:51 PM »

The auto industry is notoriously cyclical.

honest · « **Reply #19 on:** October 25, 2020, 06:07:02 PM »

Bankruptcy.

OlympiaGym · « **Reply #20 on:** October 25, 2020, 06:22:02 PM »

Too big to fail.

SOMEPARTS · « **Reply #21 on:** October 25, 2020, 10:15:43 PM »

Just like last time, Ford will be most solvent. They've done a good job with product and Bill Ford has made good decisions and hires. When your name is on the badge and you can step down and let somebody with more talent run the company...that's just uncommon these days.

Palumboism · « **Reply #22 on:** October 26, 2020, 03:32:07 AM »

Quote from: SOMEPARTS on October 25, 2020, 10:15:43 PM

Just like last time, Ford will be most solvent. They've done a good job with product and Bill Ford has made good decisions and hires. When your name is on the badge and you can step down and let somebody with more talent run the company...that's just uncommon these days.

When GM and Chrysler went bankrupt they were able to write off a lot of debt. Ford wasn't able to do that. As a result Ford is the weakest financially right now and FCA is the strongest.

The credit ratings (Junk) and bond interest tell the whole story.

The shareholders of GM and Chrysler were wiped out last time. If you have Ford stock right now you haven't learned anything from the past. Ford's CEO was fired recently for a reason.

OlympiaGym · « **Reply #23 on:** October 26, 2020, 08:30:47 AM »

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/whats-offing-ford-f-earnings-121712227.html

IroNat · « **Reply #24 on:** October 26, 2020, 08:36:17 AM »

American (Big 3) does substantial business in foreign countries. They are now really international companies.

With exception of trucks, the vehicles they sell in the USA are not so hot.