Strength on Another Level

[IroNat]

all oatmeal protein shakes and hard work!!!

And peanut butter.

[DanM]

Ummm...I am not saying if I took the same drugs I coud lift a 450 lb stone to my shoulder.   What I am saying is that without the PEDs  they couldin't lift it either.  The elite are anything but without the drugs.  Look at former elite bodybuilders when they are off the drugs, like Wolf  for exampe.  He looks good, like a man that works out.  One of us.  Look at them before the drugs.  Tiny, just like everyone else.

This ain't jealousy, it's reality.   The days of claiming to be genetically superior are long over.  Of course when the shit hits their personl fan of HEALTH, these fools will all claim to have a genetic problem and their going ful Conehead on PEDs had nothing to do with their illness. 

Yeah,  they're stupid and liars.  Honesty is said to be the best policy but these fools ain't buying.  I hope they did buy some health insurance...

Guys like Tom Stoltman and the like are born with potential that you and most others simply are not. Strength athlete is in his DNA, even if he chose to never touch steroids he would still be far above most everyone else. You seem a bit delusional

[IroNat]

I'll go with retard strength for the win.

[TheGrinch]

And peanut butter.

and Liquid Beef Aminos

[The Scott]

Guys like Tom Stoltman and the like are born with potential that you and most others simply are not. Strength athlete is in his DNA, even if he chose to never touch steroids he would still be far above most everyone else. You seem a bit delusional

So then, scientists have identified and isolated a "strength athlete" in the human genome?  Cool...

I'm far from delusional.  I am realistic.

[Van_Bilderass]

Poliquin said that steroids add 10% for a strength athlete but in bodybuilding it's like night and day. There is some truth in that. Some in this thread have zero experience of that world and have no idea how things work.
I like The Scott but my impression is that he is some old fella who never trained seriously, never used PEDs obviously.
There are pro bodybuilders who struggle with 4 plates on deadlifts after decades of drugs and conversely there are clean teens doing 600lbs. So there's more to strength than drugs. Genes rule, top strongmen are simply big people by nature.

[Van_Bilderass]

One example to do with genes and strongman is grip strength. Pretty much all of them have insane grip strength.
This is very much genetics, if you have small hands you can take all the drugs in the world and they will not give you world class grip strength. You can't even train for it. Baby hands = forget it.

[The Scott]

Poliquin said that steroids add 10% for a strength athlete but in bodybuilding it's like night and day. There is some truth in that. Some in this thread have zero experience of that world and have no idea how things work.
I like The Scott but my impression is that he is some old fella who never trained seriously, never used PEDs obviously.
There are pro bodybuilders who struggle with 4 plates on deadlifts after decades of drugs and conversely there are clean teens doing 600lbs. So there's more to strength than drugs. Genes rule, top strongmen are simply big people by nature.

I trained and competed in a few bodybuilding contests but realized I could not win and so, I just trained.  As for strength, the only real thing I was ever strong at were leg movements.  I was strong on the squat, vertical leg press and leg extension and leg curl.   But of course, not anymore.    Dammit!! LOL!

[BB]

Every batch of Strongmen keep getting bigger too, the guys in the video claim 6' 5" and 6' 8". Eddie Hall would've been an average / tall strongman at 6'3" in the 70's, 80's. Now he's shortish. Every inch of height adds the ability to add a decent bit of muscle, and that transfers in to strength, etc...., etc.....

Heightwise, it will probably settle down soon for 20 years or so, then we'll be arguing about the 7 footers .
 

[Humble Narcissist]

Poliquin said that steroids add 10% for a strength athlete but in bodybuilding it's like night and day. There is some truth in that. Some in this thread have zero experience of that world and have no idea how things work.
I like The Scott but my impression is that he is some old fella who never trained seriously, never used PEDs obviously.
There are pro bodybuilders who struggle with 4 plates on deadlifts after decades of drugs and conversely there are clean teens doing 600lbs. So there's more to strength than drugs. Genes rule, top strongmen are simply big people by nature.

So, these guys benching 800 can do 720 naturally?  Cool.

[Van_Bilderass]

So, these guys benching 800 can do 720 naturally?  Cool.

I said there's some truth in the statement. A few might get 30% from steroids. But if you take an elite powerlifter who has been training for 20 years legitimately clean (there are a few in the IPF for example) and then add steroids the gains might not translate to more than say 10% on their comp maxes, especially if they don't push the bodyweight up much. Gaining a lot of weight, even clean and even if it's mostly fat can push up lifts quite a bit.

That is to say strongman for example isn't quite as "all drugs" as bodybuilding is. They all use them because they work very well but you have to be built for it. BB made a good point about height for example.
I remember comparing my powerlift strength to some top strongmen and I was quite good in comparison but I would have absolutely zero chance in strongman competition due to not being built for those odd lifts. Lacking height, natural grip strength etc etc. These guys could go clean and still dominate over someone who might even be stronger on say deads or squat or bench single maxes.
One year I saw Magnus Samuellson do an exhibition and only benching 420lbs a few times and I was like wtf, that's shit. But dude was WSM.

[Dave D]

So, these guys benching 800 can do 720 naturally?  Cool.

Probably 792.

Brian Shaw off steroids wasn’t winning any contests. He was 240 at 6’8

Same with Thor. Off drugs 0 world records.

[IroNat]

Is it true what they say about small hands...

[IroNat]

...that you can't be a Strongman?

[BB]

I'm not sure were Poliquin got his numbers (it might be this study - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15248788/ or it could just be through observation), but the old rule across old studies was that the more technical the strength sport, the less AAS helped.

I remember one Powerlifting World's (1977), they instituted pretty heavy drug testing, and some totals were down high 20%ish range over other years. That being said, even if we said they added 20% to a lift, it would still make these guys #400 - 500 benchers, #700 pullers, etc.....

It isn't that hard to believe that a #200lb average man can bench #300 - 350, pull #500, etc.... with good training ethic, genes, etc.... So a guy #120-200 heavier could be large amounts stronger without drugs.

[Humble Narcissist]

I said there's some truth in the statement. A few might get 30% from steroids. But if you take an elite powerlifter who has been training for 20 years legitimately clean (there are a few in the IPF for example) and then add steroids the gains might not translate to more than say 10% on their comp maxes, especially if they don't push the bodyweight up much. Gaining a lot of weight, even clean and even if it's mostly fat can push up lifts quite a bit.

That is to say strongman for example isn't quite as "all drugs" as bodybuilding is. They all use them because they work very well but you have to be built for it. BB made a good point about height for example.
I remember comparing my powerlift strength to some top strongmen and I was quite good in comparison but I would have absolutely zero chance in strongman competition due to not being built for those odd lifts. Lacking height, natural grip strength etc etc. These guys could go clean and still dominate over someone who might even be stronger on say deads or squat or bench single maxes.
One year I saw Magnus Samuellson do an exhibition and only benching 420lbs a few times and I was like wtf, that's shit. But dude was WSM.

There is no truth in the 10% statement.

[Van_Bilderass]

There is no truth in the 10% statement.

It's actually very vague statement because there are a lot of factors involved. Poliquin was just making a point. Because if we are talking about how much strength steroids can add, are we talking about one cycle, one year of use, 20 years? Are we talking about someone who could be assumed to be pretty much maxed out naturally and then goes on steroids, or a you guy who still has some natty gains to make?
I have observed a few cases. One guy, top IPF lifter, many years experience. A year into juicing with moderate doses, under a gram a week, about 10% gain in maxes, same bodyweight as when natty except leaner. In technical lifts where equipment helps a lot like sumo deads the gains were almost nothing whereas raw conventional went up almost 20%.
BB is right, the assumption that the more technical the lift is the less sterois help seems correct. Raw muscle strength can increase a lot but if the lift is more about technique and mastering equipment you might not get much. So it's hard to put exact percentages on it, depends on the lift, raw or equipped, bodyweight constraints etc.

If you look at powerlifters on IG you can see some insane things done by tested or even clean athletes. There are tested young girls pissing all over bodybuilders who have been juicing for decades.
For example, look at this girl's videos:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGtXh_dgi18/?igshid=p5sngbyatzus

[Humble Narcissist]

It's actually very vague statement because there are a lot of factors involved. Poliquin was just making a point. Because if we are talking about how much strength steroids can add, are we talking about one cycle, one year of use, 20 years? Are we talking about someone who could be assumed to be pretty much maxed out naturally and then goes on steroids, or a you guy who still has some natty gains to make?
I have observed a few cases. One guy, top IPF lifter, many years experience. A year into juicing with moderate doses, under a gram a week, about 10% gain in maxes, same bodyweight as when natty except leaner. In technical lifts where equipment helps a lot like sumo deads the gains were almost nothing whereas raw conventional went up almost 20%.
BB is right, the assumption that the more technical the lift is the less sterois help seems correct. Raw muscle strength can increase a lot but if the lift is more about technique and mastering equipment you might not get much. So it's hard to put exact percentages on it, depends on the lift, raw or equipped, bodyweight constraints etc.

If you look at powerlifters on IG you can see some insane things done by tested or even clean athletes. There are tested young girls pissing all over bodybuilders who have been juicing for decades.
For example, look at this girl's videos:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGtXh_dgi18/?igshid=p5sngbyatzus

It wasn't vague at all.  He specifically said 10%.  You might not be able to put an exact % on how much steroids help for strength but it is way higher than 10%.

[BB]

Nuckols is a 10% guy too, with a +/-5% swing - https://www.strongerbyscience.com/steroids-for-strength-sports/ . I haven't deeply read it, but it is a detailed article.

[Humble Narcissist]

Like bodybuilding, just the finishing 5%.

[IroNat]

Like bodybuilding, just the finishing 5%.

.05%